Elusive target abuse

[Demonic Doudou]

Hi,

I play a fighter on my campaign and have a discussion with my DM about the Elusive target feat. I encounter a group of 4 orcs. on my turn, I decided to move around them to grant them attack of opportunity, i.e. one each. For each missed attack, I stated that I had a free trip attempt from Elusive target and for each such success, I have a free attack, as stated in improved trip. Nothing to say that all 4 orcs died, and I did'nt finish moving, in addition to not attacking yet.

What do you think about my interpertation of the rules?

Thank you

[SirFredgar]

On a cursory inspection it seems legal, but as a DM I would adjust it slightly.

See for improved trip there is one thing that stands out to me:



If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn't used your attack for the trip attempt.

This implies (but doesn't state... so this is RAI, not RAW) that you'd have to be in a situation where you can normaly use an attack to gain the benefeits of improved trip... otherwise a druid could do silly things like Wolf it up, Attack, Free Trip, Free Attack.

How I would approach it is, you'd be able to perform this little trick only when you could make an attack of opportunity yourself. That means, you'd need combat reflexes and at least a +3 dex mod to do this to 4 opponents.

Now... this is my RAI on it from a DMs perspective, but RAW, I think it might work exactly as you used it. Anyone else have contrary evidence?

[Zaq]

Seems legit to me, honestly. It doesn't state that you have to have the enemy marked as your Dodge target, and there's no limit I can see on the number of trip attempts you can make per turn. It's just a simple example of high-risk, high-reward play. I'm not sure what you mean by "didn't finish moving," and that part makes me raise an eyebrow, but the rest seems legit. It's not even THAT powerful, since 1) you had to burn three feats (two of which are the infamous Dodge and Mobility) on this and 2) you have to move, meaning that you give up your full attack (unless you're pounce-charging away from these guys, which makes this even less scary against them).

[SirFredgar]

1) you had to burn three feats (two of which are the infamous Dodge and Mobility) on this and 2) you have to move, meaning that you give up your full attack (unless you're pounce-charging away from these guys, which makes this even less scary against them).

Yeah, on second thought, I'd let it work as is. That feat tax is terribad and I just noticed the part where they have to miss to even gain any benefeit. Mobility adds a nice little ac boost... but in higher levels of play it won't matter much, and a tactic like this could get you smeared.

[FMArthur]

It sounds like you cleared out a group of vastly inferior mooks in a fashion that is sort of typical for a highly skilled fantasy warrior. What's the problem here? That a typical ape with a sword is not normally capable of heroic feats of skill? You invested in being good at something and are good at it. :smallconfused:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If I use Mighty Throw (ToB 73) or another maneuver
that allows me to trip a foe, does the Improved Trip feat
grant me an extra attack against that opponent?

Yes. The Improved Trip feat applies any time you trip a foe
in melee combat, even if that trip comes from a special power.
It doesn't matter why you got to trip someone, if you have Improved Trip you get a free attack whenever it happens.

You took a risk in provoking AoOs from the orcs, and you were rewarded if they missed, it's not overpowered at all.

[SirFredgar]

It doesn't matter why you got to trip someone, if you have Improved Trip you get a free attack whenever it happens.

You took a risk in provoking AoOs from the orcs, and you were rewarded if they missed, it's not overpowered at all.

Following this logic, my previous example of the WS druid in wolf form was accurate. You can Attack, Free Trip, Free Attack? Or the Fleshraker (which, is likely the better options for WS anyways): 2 Claws, Bite or Tail, Rake, Free trip, Free Attack, Free Grapple. Sheesh. Seems a bit much, but only when I don't think about the fact they get 9th level magic anyways.

[Mystify]

Elusive target is fun.

[Rejusu]

It seems completely legal under RAW, and I'd see no reason to change it considering that the other manoeuvres of ET and it's prerequisites are... pretty meh. Dodge is just all kinds of bad.


This implies (but doesn't state... so this is RAI, not RAW) that you'd have to be in a situation where you can normaly use an attack to gain the benefeits of improved trip... otherwise a druid could do silly things like Wolf it up, Attack, Free Trip, Free Attack.


If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn't used your attack for the trip attempt.

In this case I'd say the initial statement overrides the latter statement. The qualifier is that you must trip an opponent in melee combat but it places no other restrictions on triggering the ability. It's worth noting that the wolfs "Trip" ability is also available in a slightly different form as the Knock-Down feat. If you deal 10 more more damage with a melee attack you get a trip as a free action, if you succeed on that trip then you get your attack from improved trip.

It's also worth noting that this combo can only be done on your turn. Since while the melee attack from Imp Trip isn't an action (it just says you "get" an attack) but the Trip/Knock-down abilities give you a trip as a free action and you can only take free actions on your turn. You can still trip and then use your attack from improved trip as an AoO though.

[Keld Denar]

WRT Knockdown and Imp Trip, a lot of people consider it RAI that you don't get the follow up attack from Imp Trip with Knockdown. Knockdown was first printed in Sword and Fist, which, in its errata, disallowed the free trip after a Knockdown. When Knockdown was reprinted in the Dieties book that's in the SRD, that errata wasn't included. Whether or not that was errata by ommision or a simple copy/pasta error has been the source of debate for a few years.

Wolves, however, have never had that language, and if one had Imp Trip, it would get both the before and after attacks.

[Demonic Doudou]

My character is in fact a monk. Il I add snap kick to the kit, this character can do a lot of collateral damage by simply moving around monsters, i.e. move, AOO, miss, trip attempt followed by attack and add snap kick in extra each time (2 attacks by AOO), after your first full move, just continue and repeat against other creatures. At level 9, the PC can sweep the battlefield in only a round. It's important to have an excellent AC...

I think its a lot of fun and spectacular and I agree that the cost is high in feats. But playing D&D without fun is not worth it.

Imagine adding cleave later...

I know that fireball or something else can do a lot of damage, but it's magic and I try to be useful against more than one opponent as a melee warrior.

Thanks for your answers!

[Elric VIII]

I recommend adding the feat Martial Stance (Child of Shadow) to this build. It's a stance from ToB that gives you concealment whenever you move 10ft. Since Elusive Target triggers off any miss, that 20% chance is going to be really useful. Alternatively, get a Cloak of Displacement.

[Greyfeld85]

I've used this combo before, and I find it legal, but it's always preferable to ask your DM just in case. I know that some sticklers (as above) will try to argue that Imp. Trip will only grant an attack if you used your attack to trip an opponent.

But as it's been stated, even if it's not RAW, it's situational enough (multi-legged and large+ monsters suck) and costs enough resources that it should always be allowed.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

This is not an abuse. Just a good tactic.

[Zombimode]

I dont understand. Improved Trip DOESNT give a free attack. It just reverts the state of affairs to a point where the tripper havent used his attack for the trip. That enables him to use this attack to do damge. But it requires the tripper to be able to make a melee attack in the first place. With Elusive Target this is not the case. It doesnt give you a melee attack, just a trip attempt.

If Improved Trip would give you a free attack after a successful trip attempt, it would just say so and the "as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt"-part would not be there.

[Rejusu]

I dont understand. Improved Trip DOESNT give a free attack. It just reverts the state of affairs to a point where the tripper havent used his attack for the trip. That enables him to use this attack to do damge. But it requires the tripper to be able to make a melee attack in the first place. With Elusive Target this is not the case. It doesnt give you a melee attack, just a trip attempt.

If Improved Trip would give you a free attack after a successful trip attempt, it would just say so and the "as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt"-part would not be there.


If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.

Emphasis mine. The first two parts of the wording are the most important as it states the qualifying conditions you must meet to trigger the effect (ie tripping an opponent in melee combat) and then the result of triggering that effect (you immediately get a melee attack). The final part of the wording is to ensure that this attack does not affect your other attacks (in terms of iterative attacks and BAB) and that you can always make this attack even when you wouldn't normally be able to (ie because you'd already used your actions for the turn or you're doing this as part of an AoO).

The most important part though is that "you immediately get a melee attack" against an opponent whenever you "trip an opponent in melee combat". The qualifying conditions nor the result are not predicated on being able to make an attack in the first place.

It's kind of moot arguing this though because not only is it RAW it's also RAI as evidenced by the answer from the official D&D 3.5 Rules FAQ that's already been posted within this thread.

[Red_Dog]

I've been following this thread when I had an Idea/Question. I though making new thread would be rude as this one is still not dead.

Idea/Question!
Desert wind dodge from ToB gives you dodge Bonus whenever you move 10ft until the beginning of your NEXT turn.
Expeditious Dodge gives +2 Dodge bonus if you move 40ft in one turn and is a fighter's bonus feat AND qualifies as the original dodge just like desert wind dodge.

Elusive Target lets you Negate anyone's PA dmg bonus if they are a target of your Dodge feat...

To me, this means that Until the end of your turn, ANY PA towards you is flatout negated!

By this logic the second benefit of Elusive Target works on everyone so anyone attacking you will attack people that flank you first!

If this is correct, than, to me, this smells like an Awesome Dungeon Crusher Build. Dungeon Crushers get VERY good DMG thru STR, which works with Trip.

A benefit of being not boring but moving and jumping around while becoming good at, well, melee fighting seems to bring a new spin on an old Freight train which is dungeon Crusher ^^
Hell you can probably use Sword&Board(even with tower shield as it does not penalize movement!) and since the BulRushing Str damage does not depend on the weapon you are holding, this seems like fun times ^^

So... rule ruling? Thoughts? ^^
P.S. One more small thing... Regardless of the answer to the question above. If one trips someone using Elusive target as thread described, and than gets an immediate attack... can that attack be augmented with PA? If it can, than for Knockback using individual that would also initiate Bulrush... This effectively lets you to run thru enemies punting them with a weapon like they are hockey pucks... Is this correct or am I wrong here? ^^

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Expeditious dodge does not have a "dodge target". Your AC bonus applies against all opponents but you don't have a dodge target.

To negate power attack you need a dodge target.

No dogde target, no negate power attack.

[Red_Dog]

Expeditious dodge does not have a "dodge target". Your AC bonus applies against all opponents but you don't have a dodge target.

To negate power attack you need a dodge target.

No dogde target, no negate power attack.

That's what I though initially. But than, the reason why I asked was this=>

Being a target of dodge meaning your attacks now have to overcome the dodge bonus of an individual that is targeting you with dodge...

Since other dodges make everyone overcome that extra dodge bonus, everyone who has to overcome these bonuses has to be a target...

Especially if the feat directly specifies that it can be used whenever the original Dodge can be...

So that is why I asked ^^. Yes it is kind of rule lawering a bit... but its for the good of resurrecting Elusive target which is Hysterical ^^

[Fax Celestis]

you had to burn three feats (two of which are the infamous Dodge and Mobility) on this

Five feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target, and Improved Trip. Plus, you have to be at least 6th level (or if you're the typical Dex-style character in a 3/4 BAB class, 8th level).

[Red_Dog]

=>D@rK-SePHiRoTH-

BTW, just had a conversation about this with a buddy of mine.

Another reading could very well be=>

Since Elusive target [itself in its own feat description] only allows one person at the time to be effected by negate PA or Diverting defense, this would at very least let you just choose one guy for both(or 2 different targets, depends on how your DM feels on this one) every time you make an action (including immediate actions) since Elusive target does not specify what actions would it burn.

I guess this would be my RAI reading of this ^_^. [still think that in terms of balance, burning so many feats to get this just helps the fighter who really needs as much help as possible].

[Zaq]

Five feats: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target, and Improved Trip. Plus, you have to be at least 6th level (or if you're the typical Dex-style character in a 3/4 BAB class, 8th level).

I stand corrected. With that in mind, I believe even more firmly than before that this is in no way, shape, or form "abusive."

[Rejusu]

P.S. One more small thing... Regardless of the answer to the question above. If one trips someone using Elusive target as thread described, and than gets an immediate attack... can that attack be augmented with PA? If it can, than for Knockback using individual that would also initiate Bulrush... This effectively lets you to run thru enemies punting them with a weapon like they are hockey pucks... Is this correct or am I wrong here? ^^

Oddly enough I don't actually see anything under RAW that'd stop you doing this. You can't trigger power attack when it isn't your turn (Power attack states that it must be done "on your action", and AoO's aren't an action) however if you trigger PA on your turn the attack penalty and damage bonus persist until your next turn. Meaning any attack of opportunity you then make after triggering it count as a use of power attack.

I can't find anything that'd restrict you from bull rushing a prone enemy so it seems like it'd be legal under RAW. While Knockback doesn't allow you to move with them if you were to throw in shock trooper, enough reach, and some well positioned enemies...

It'd be very situational but you could potentially chain several attacks together like this. Not worth the feat investment though.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Not worth the feat investment though.
Just sayin'
Human Fighter2/PsychicWarrior2 has 7 feats
Add warblade up to 20 and you've got an outstanding melee character

[absolmorph]

Oddly enough I don't actually see anything under RAW that'd stop you doing this. You can't trigger power attack when it isn't your turn (Power attack states that it must be done "on your action", and AoO's aren't an action) however if you trigger PA on your turn the attack penalty and damage bonus persist until your next turn. Meaning any attack of opportunity you then make after triggering it count as a use of power attack.

I can't find anything that'd restrict you from bull rushing a prone enemy so it seems like it'd be legal under RAW. While Knockback doesn't allow you to move with them if you were to throw in shock trooper, enough reach, and some well positioned enemies...

It'd be very situational but you could potentially chain several attacks together like this. Not worth the feat investment though.
This is the basis of the King of Pong (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5897646) build, actually. Well, that and grabbing and throwing people. And Flaming Homer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22) is even more focused on it.
Shock Trooper + Knockback + Improved Trip = fun.

EDIT: I just checked the Rules Compendium because I was wondering if being bull rushed could provoke AoOs.
It can. :smalleek:

[Red_Dog]

**EDIT, included small response**

This is the basis of the King of Pong build, actually. Well, that and grabbing and throwing people. And Flaming Homer is even more focused on it.
Both of them focus on the final Impact as far as I am I aware. This one focuses on tons of collateral damage on the way. ^^

Rejusu & everyone I guess=>

Here is the full combo that I had in mind
It needs 8 feats[5 mentioned and Improved BR, Knockback & PA and being large of course]. But if you are going w/ Dungeon Crusher you are taking Knock-Back/PA/IBR combo anyways ^^

Combo=>

>Declare a charge action that will take you by few enemies to provoke AoOs...

>Declare that you are using PA since it mus be done on your action and charge IS your action... No need to push all your BAB, 2 is all you need...

>Run by enemies and provoke trips, everyone who misses and than falls get smacked.

>Everyone who is smacked get free bullRush against them.

>Knock back explicitly lets you send enemies flying if you succeed AS long as you put at least 2 points of BAB in.

>Punt prone enemies[just like you would hockey puks ^^] into other enemies if you can or obstacles. This scores damage thru dungeon Crushing.

>Finish the charge with knock against the first target ^^

P.S.
All you really need to pull this of is a good target selection and everything else seems by the rules. ^^ Heck even trip-punting 2-3 enemies before you hit that main, now befuddled, foe would be great ^^

For more fun try finding ways to be hasted (longer charge) and change directions for zig-zaging(skill trick?) ^^.

P.S.2. I name thou build "Canadian Crusher"!!! [due to hokey similarities] ^^
Or perhaps just Canadaman as per a very funny comic strip (see below) ^^[Obviously not to be taken offensively please ^^]
http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/comics/2010-06-28.jpg

[Fax Celestis]

EDIT: I just checked the Rules Compendium because I was wondering if being bull rushed could provoke AoOs.
It can. :smalleek:

Now go read the legion of sentinels spell in PHB-II.

[Telonius]

It's a nice tactic, but would be ruined by Orc Number 3 making a Wisdom check, DC... oh, let's say, 5.

"Hay. Gronk and Blork hit at sneaky-man, get squished. Blarg not should do dat."

Just because you provoke an AoO doesn't mean the opponent has to take an AoO.

(EDIT: That's directed at the OP).

[FMArthur]

It's a nice tactic, but would be ruined by Orc Number 3 making a Wisdom check, DC... oh, let's say, 5.

"Hay. Gronk and Blork hit at sneaky-man, get squished. Blarg not should do dat."

Just because you provoke an AoO doesn't mean the opponent has to take an AoO.

(EDIT: That's directed at the OP).

Eh, that pretty much means that they shouldn't be willing to fight the guy at all - ie the same "check" if any (there shouldn't be one) to realize that they are fighting a foe well above their skill when everyone else is dropping after trying to trade blows. Remember that while AoOs are a rules distinction, they're really just part of the flow of exchanged attacks in a combat from the warriors' perspective. It would be an intelligent warrior who knows not to take advantage of the false opening, waiting until the Elusive Target stops to begin attacking.

[Voyager_I]

It's a nice tactic, but would be ruined by Orc Number 3 making a Wisdom check, DC... oh, let's say, 5.

"Hay. Gronk and Blork hit at sneaky-man, get squished. Blarg not should do dat."

Just because you provoke an AoO doesn't mean the opponent has to take an AoO.

(EDIT: That's directed at the OP).

Everyone knows enemy mooks don't have a sense of self-preservation. Otherwise they'd do awkward things like run away or even surrender in the middle of a fight instead of quietly exiting the scene on the end of a sword.

Hell, they're lucky if they even get to use their treasure before forfeiting it to the PCs.

[Red_Dog]

To the comments of "not taking AoO"...

IMO this is accomplished with good RP...

Yell obscenities [free action to yell at enemies] at the enemies so they would be more inclined to attack you. Taunt them as much as you can. They would not have to attack but DM will need a good excuse on why they didn't.

This goes to just any "agro control". Any fighting class without ability to mechanically "generate agro". Yelling obscenities and taunts is just good RP because that what fighter would be expected to do anyway[not for ALL fighter builds of course]. The fact that this build requires you to be large would also help as you would seem dangerous and needed to be taken damage.

===========================================>
Also please someone confirm a validity rule wise to Canadaman tactic (as far as declaring PA fueled charge being legal. As far as I understand it can be and PA applies before you initiate the charge attack) so I can start a new thread to put in my siggy ^^[obviously going to put this thread in credits ^^]

Thx in advance if someone can validate/disprove this tactic ^^.

[Mystify]

When I threw an elusive target build at my party, they NEVER figured out that it was a bad idea to take the attack ops. or to stay on the ground, for that matter. And they have time to think about what is happening in the combat. Its not unreasonable to think that random mooks won't figure it out in the last seconds of their lives.

[Rejusu]

This is the basis of the King of Pong (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5897646) build, actually. Well, that and grabbing and throwing people. And Flaming Homer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22) is even more focused on it.
Shock Trooper + Knockback + Improved Trip = fun.

EDIT: I just checked the Rules Compendium because I was wondering if being bull rushed could provoke AoOs.
It can. :smalleek:

Well I was thinking that it's a bit too situational a combo because of it being too reliant on proper enemy positioning. But the King of Pong build means you're less reliant on the enemies being all lined up nice and conveniently for you.



Also please someone confirm a validity rule wise to Canadaman tactic (as far as declaring PA fueled charge being legal. As far as I understand it can be and PA applies before you initiate the charge attack) so I can start a new thread to put in my siggy ^^[obviously going to put this thread in credits ^^]

Thx in advance if someone can validate/disprove this tactic ^^.

Yes you can apply PA before you charge/as part of a charge. The only prerequisite is you do it before making any attack rolls. Feats like Shock Trooper even have a requirement on some of the manoeuvres they provide that to use PA as part of a charge (Heedless charge).

[Red_Dog]

=>Rejusu

Thx man! ^^ I might just make a thread about it a bit later than ^^

Other points that came to mind=>

>Getting Karmik Strike and Robilar's Gambit as they are only few feats away anyway. This essentially means that if enemy attacks you midst movement, they are either being tripped and than punted if they miss, or just attacked and punted if they hit ^^ Either way they are La Boned ^^. Of course feats increase in numbers... [This one will be part of the new trhead if I make one]

>Tripping flying targets. First can you trip flying targets? Second if you can, than a raptorian fighter might like this to be somewhat of an interceptor. This however is much more campaign specific. Still with just enough open space, one can simply fly above the enemy's heads and provoke attacks en Mass...

>Using this with a mix of Hexblade and fighter. This works similar to karmik strike idea. Using spells like Karmik backlash(and its chain) every time you get hit, opponents role saves and probably get smack back if you have karmik strike. Or miss and get tripped. With Dark Companion floating next to you and giving everyone negative saves and AC, this could actually work ok-ish for both saves and hiting with Karmik strike AoOs... I am not sure what other spells does hexblade have that would aid in piling on saves/conditions for hitting/attempting to hit you....

So those were my current thoughts on this ^^!

[2xMachina]

I've been following this thread when I had an Idea/Question. I though making new thread would be rude as this one is still not dead.

Idea/Question!
Desert wind dodge from ToB gives you dodge Bonus whenever you move 10ft until the beginning of your NEXT turn.
Expeditious Dodge gives +2 Dodge bonus if you move 40ft in one turn and is a fighter's bonus feat AND qualifies as the original dodge just like desert wind dodge.

Elusive Target lets you Negate anyone's PA dmg bonus if they are a target of your Dodge feat...

To me, this means that Until the end of your turn, ANY PA towards you is flatout negated!

By this logic the second benefit of Elusive Target works on everyone so anyone attacking you will attack people that flank you first!

If this is correct, than, to me, this smells like an Awesome Dungeon Crusher Build. Dungeon Crushers get VERY good DMG thru STR, which works with Trip.

A benefit of being not boring but moving and jumping around while becoming good at, well, melee fighting seems to bring a new spin on an old Freight train which is dungeon Crusher ^^
Hell you can probably use Sword&Board(even with tower shield as it does not penalize movement!) and since the BulRushing Str damage does not depend on the weapon you are holding, this seems like fun times ^^

So... rule ruling? Thoughts? ^^
P.S. One more small thing... Regardless of the answer to the question above. If one trips someone using Elusive target as thread described, and than gets an immediate attack... can that attack be augmented with PA? If it can, than for Knockback using individual that would also initiate Bulrush... This effectively lets you to run thru enemies punting them with a weapon like they are hockey pucks... Is this correct or am I wrong here? ^^

That chain is best with swiftblade, considering that it has those feats as feat tax.

[Rejusu]

>Tripping flying targets. First can you trip flying targets? Second if you can, than a raptorian fighter might like this to be somewhat of an interceptor. This however is much more campaign specific. Still with just enough open space, one can simply fly above the enemy's heads and provoke attacks en Mass...

You can't trip flyers but you can stall them with a successful trip attack. You can only stall a creature that uses wings to fly though and you can't stall a flyer with perfect maneuverability. Thus most creatures using magic to fly won't be affected. If you stall a flyer they fall 150ft and takes falling damage if they hit the ground, if they don't they can make a reflex save the next round to recover or continue falling.

There'd be no problems with tripping enemies while you were flying on the other hand. With the added advantage that if you're flying without wings they don't get to trip you if you fail.

[Person_Man]

I'm of the opinion that Elusive Target is not worth it because of the Dodge and Mobility pre-reqs. And there are many other melee combos which are much more effective and efficient then Cause Overreach + Imp Trip.

Having said that, if you are going to use it, I suggest some combination of the following:

Using one of the variant Dodges (Dessert Wind, Cobalt Dodge, Expeditions Dodge) in place of normal Dodge. Alternatively you can get it as a bonus feat by being the Hadozee race (Stormwrack, missing on page 41, check page 152)
Wear armor enchanted with the Mobility enhancement, (+1, Magic Item Compendium) for mobility. Armor can't be Sundered, so unless you're in an anti-magic field or someone uses targeted Dispel Magic on you, you're fine.
Staff of Mighty Sweeping grants you Improved Trip when you use it, and is a double weapon, which means it can be used with TWF. (Magic of Faerun)
Speaking of staffs, the Eilservs School feat is useful for any Gish build that uses TWF. When you strike a creature with a magic staff, it deals +1 damage for every 10 charges it contains. And if you strike a creature with both ends, you can activate one of the spells in the staff as a Swift action. Drow of the Underdark pg 56.
Double Hit: When you make an AoO, you can make an attack with your main and off hand weapon. Req TWF feats. Miniatures Handbook pg 25.
Swordsage 11 (or Swordsage X/Whatever X) gives you access to the Dessert Tempest maneuver. You move, you hit each person that you move past once, and provoke AoO as normal. This gives you a chance to hit each enemy before they attempt to hit you. Tome of Battle.
Binder 5 (or Binder 3 with a Feat) gives you access to the Paimon vestige, which gives you Dance of Death (same as Dessert Tempest) and Whirlwind Attack.
Robilar's Gambit lets you attack people each time they swing at you, but it comes with an AC penalty, and has high pre-reqs. PHBII.
Get high AC and a Miss Chance. (Displacement, Fellmist Robe, Blinking, etc).
Sand Dancer feat: Whenever you move at least 10 ft in an area of sand/loose dirt/etc, Tumble (for any section of your movement), and attack and damage an enemy, they must Save or be Blinded for one round. You can buy a Bottle of Endless Sand, which you can just tie to your belt and leave on. Or you can have someone cast or UMD Transmute Stone to Sand or Black Sand to create it. Sandstorm pg 52.
Get free, swift, or immediate action movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) of some kind. More movement = more opportunities.
Do NOT use Karmic Strike (which requires enemies to hit you). And do not use Bull Rush if you use either Dance of Death option (which pushes enemies away from you, preventing them from making their first attack against you, which prevents Cause Overreach from triggering. Your combo is to let people attack you when you move, miss, and then smack them back. Don't invest resources in things which undercut your combo.
Play a Tier 3 or higher build. To pull this off, you're going to have to invest 5+ feat (or gp for equivalent items). You don't want all of your resources in one combo basket.

[FMArthur]

I'm of the opinion that Elusive Target is not worth it because of the Dodge and Mobility pre-reqs. And there are many other melee combos which are much more effective and efficient then Cause Overreach + Imp Trip.

Having said that, if you are going to use it, I suggest some combination of the following:

Using one of the variant Dodges (Dessert Wind, Cobalt Dodge, Expeditions Dodge) in place of normal Dodge. Alternatively you can get it as a bonus feat by being the Hadozee race (Stormwrack, missing on page 41, check page 152)
Wear armor enchanted with the Mobility enhancement, (+1, Magic Item Compendium) for mobility. Armor can't be Sundered, so unless you're in an anti-magic field or someone uses targeted Dispel Magic on you, you're fine.
Staff of Mighty Sweeping grants you Improved Trip when you use it, and is a double weapon, which means it can be used with TWF. (Magic of Faerun)
Speaking of staffs, the Eilservs School feat is useful for any Gish build that uses TWF. When you strike a creature with a magic staff, it deals +1 damage for every 10 charges it contains. And if you strike a creature with both ends, you can activate one of the spells in the staff as a Swift action. Drow of the Underdark pg 56.
Double Hit: When you make an AoO, you can make an attack with your main and off hand weapon. Req TWF feats. Miniatures Handbook pg 25.
Swordsage 11 (or Swordsage X/Whatever X) gives you access to the Dessert Tempest maneuver. You move, you hit each person that you move past once, and provoke AoO as normal. This gives you a chance to hit each enemy before they attempt to hit you. Tome of Battle.
Binder 5 (or Binder 3 with a Feat) gives you access to the Paimon vestige, which gives you Dance of Death (same as Dessert Tempest) and Whirlwind Attack.
Robilar's Gambit lets you attack people each time they swing at you, but it comes with an AC penalty, and has high pre-reqs. PHBII.
Get high AC and a Miss Chance. (Displacement, Fellmist Robe, Blinking, etc).
Sand Dancer feat: Whenever you move at least 10 ft in an area of sand/loose dirt/etc, Tumble (for any section of your movement), and attack and damage an enemy, they must Save or be Blinded for one round. You can buy a Bottle of Endless Sand, which you can just tie to your belt and leave on. Or you can have someone cast or UMD Transmute Stone to Sand or Black Sand to create it. Sandstorm pg 52.
Get free, swift, or immediate action movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) of some kind. More movement = more opportunities.
Do NOT use Karmic Strike (which requires enemies to hit you). And do not use Bull Rush if you use either Dance of Death option (which pushes enemies away from you, preventing them from making their first attack against you, which prevents Cause Overreach from triggering. Your combo is to let people attack you when you move, miss, and then smack them back. Don't invest resources in things which undercut your combo.
Play a Tier 3 or higher build. To pull this off, you're going to have to invest 5+ feat (or gp for equivalent items). You don't want all of your resources in one combo basket.


Couple corrections: I don't think Cobolt Dodge is a thing; Midnight Dodge is the Incarnum one if that's what you mean. It's also the only one that still lets you select a Dodge target, which permits the use of the other two benefits of Elusive Target.
The Dessert Wind discipline is for restaurant staff. The Desert Wind discipline is for warriors.
You should probably mention that Robilar's Gambit grants you an Attack of Opportunity; otherwise the purposes of Double Hit and TWFing with a double weapon is unclear since AFAIK no other part of this build is based off of your own AoOs.

[Person_Man]

Couple corrections: I don't think Cobolt Dodge is a thing; Midnight Dodge is the Incarnum one if that's what you mean. It's also the only one that still lets you select a Dodge target, which permits the use of the other two benefits of Elusive Target.
The Dessert Wind discipline is for restaurant staff. The Desert Wind discipline is for warriors.
You should probably mention that Robilar's Gambit grants you an Attack of Opportunity; otherwise the purposes of Double Hit and TWFing with a double weapon is unclear since AFAIK no other part of this build is based off of your own AoOs.

Points conceded. Though now I want to homebrew a Chef class that fights with Dessert Wind, just to prove you wrong. I'm pretty sure the forum could generate a list of 20 D&D food puns for me to use as class abilities fairly easily.

[Mystify]

Though now I want to homebrew a Chef class that fights with Dessert Wind, just to prove you wrong. I'm pretty sure the forum could generate a list of 20 D&D food puns for me to use as class abilities fairly easily.
I would play this

[nedz]

Points conceded. Though now I want to homebrew a Chef class that fights with Dessert Wind, just to prove you wrong. I'm pretty sure the forum could generate a list of 20 D&D food puns for me to use as class abilities fairly easily.

Sous ArcanaChef

[Rejusu]

Points conceded. Though now I want to homebrew a Chef class that fights with Dessert Wind, just to prove you wrong. I'm pretty sure the forum could generate a list of 20 D&D food puns for me to use as class abilities fairly easily.

While we're at it we could throw together a sweeper (shameless rip-off of Terry Pratchetts Lu-Tze the history monk), a combat butler, and a gardener.

[Red_Dog]

Person_Man=>

=>Good catch on the swordsage maneuver. The other variant would be to use diamond mind manuver Bounding Assault that effectivly lets you change your charge distance in any way you like so you can run circles thru enemies provoking AoOs.

=>Good catch on Double hit. I ALWAYS confuse it with dual strike from CAdv that really really sucks. Double hit on the other hand is rather amazing even if you are just shield Bashing. And shield is advantageous for the Elusive Target as you get more armor and more misses against you and more trips against foes.

=>Mobility enchantment is amazing IF DM lets you play so that your Elusive Target ceases to function if you do not hold the shield/wear armor.
**Unless I am missing something?***

=>Karmik strike is a matter of taste for me. If one dips barbarian for Improved trip, than Gambit is miles better because of less feat taxing.

=>I have to disagree with your stance on Bullrushes though. Dungeon crusher can rack up very impressive damage if he initiates bulrush with knock back on an improved trip attack. This way you get to damage and disable[trip after they hit say other enemies] a lot of targets.

Otherwise thx for amazing catch on Double Hit! ^^ I always forget that one.

P.S. I am a n00b when it comes to ToM (besides shadowcasting, I've done extensive reading on that). So good catch with that vestige ^^ I wouldn't know where to begin in analyzing that for now^^

P.S.2. Would Mirror Image works wonders with this? As in give multiple cause overreach as your illusions pass next to enemies? I think the answer is no... However, what would you guys think?O_o