[PF] Build me a Batman!

[Drothmal]

And no, I don't mean a Batman wizard

I was just trying to think how you could best emulate one of the most awesome purely human superheroes

Here's are some rules (and explanations behind my reasoning)

- PF only (I am aware that there are other systems that are specifically for superhoeroes. I am also aware that Tome of Battle has maneuvers that would fit the concept well. I am currently playing/DMing PF only games, so I'd like some input in PF)
- 30PB (This is Batman, after all)
- builds between levels 7-13 (in 10+ years of playing, I've never had the chance to play at 20, so I'd rather see a build in a range that I could potentially play the character if I ever get the chance)
- I'd prefer non-spellcasting builds over spellcasting ones (Batman is all about human prowess and physical combat, no fireballs)
- Just for kicks, let's assume that you have the WBL of +1 level to where you make the build (i.e if you make a lvl 10 build, use the WBL for a lvl 11)


With that said, this is what I have so far (and please feel free to criticize/ suggest improvements). I'm not sure about the order, but I feel that a fair amount of multiclassing does represent Batman's unique training

Human (lvl 8)

17
16 (15+1)
12
16 (15+1)
12
14

(1) Monk (Master of many styles) 1: Dodge (human) + Crane Style (lvl 1) + Crane Wing (monk bonus) + Improved unarmed strike
(2) Lore Warden 1: Combat Reflexes
(3) MoMS 2: Snake Style (lvl 3) + Snake Fang
(4) Lore Warden 2: Combat Expertise + Improved Disarm
(5) Ninja 1
(6) Ninja 2: Vanish (ninja Trick) + Pressure points (Feat=Extra Rogue Talent)
(7) Ranger (Archetype?): Favored enemy: humans + Toughness
(8) Ranger 2: Two weapon fighting

Any suggestions? Any alternative builds?

[unundindur]

from the top of my head:

1 Factotum
2 Warblade
3 Factotum
4 Monk (Carmendine monk feat if allowed to use Faerun sources)
5 Factotum
6 Monk
7 Warblade
8 Warblade
9 Warblade
10 Warblade

If you considder his suit to be more akin to armor, remove monk and add inn more of Factotum or Warblade :)

Screw this, didnt see the PF part...

[Drothmal]

from the top of my head:

1 Factotum
2 Warblade
3 Factotum
4 Monk (Carmendine monk feat if allowed to use Faerun sources)
5 Factotum
6 Monk
7 Warblade
8 Warblade
9 Warblade
10 Warblade

If you considder his suit to be more akin to armor, remove monk and add inn more of Factotum or Warblade :)

Screw this, didnt see the PF part...

I still appreciate the attempt :smallbiggrin:

Anyone else want to give it a try?

[Engine]

Here!

Batman
Male human ninja 13
\\ medium humanoid
Init +10; Senses Perception +19

DEFENSE
AC 24, touch 14, flat-footed 20 (+10 armor)
hp 88 (13d8+26)
Fort +10 Ref +16 Will +10
Defensive abilities improved uncanny dodge


OFFENSE
Speed 40 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +18\+13 (1d10+9)
Ranged Mwk Shuriken +14\+9 (1d2+4)
Special Attacks Sneak Attack +7d6

STATISTICS

Str 18 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 20 Wis 16 Cha 18
Base Atk +9 CMB +13 CMD 27
Traits Rich Parents, Reactionary
Feats Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Sap Adept, Snake Fang, Snake Sidewind, Snake Style, Quick Draw
Skills Acrobatics +20, Climb +14, Bluff +20, Craft (Alchemy) +21, Diplomacy +20, Disable Device +21, Disguise +20, Intimidate +20, Knowledge (Local) +21, Knowledge (Nobility) +21, Perception +19, Sense Motive +19, Sleight of Hand +20, Stealth +35 Swim +13, Use Magic Device +20
Languages
SQ ninja tricks (Feather Fall, Sudden Disguise, Unarmed Combat Training, Vanishing Trick) master tricks (Invisible Blade, Unarmed Combat Mastery), ki pool 10, no trace +4, light steps

Gear Mithral breastplate of Greater Shadow +4, Amulet of Mighty Fists +5, Belt of Many Tools, mwk tools, 10 mwk shurikens, Cloak of resistance +4, all six attribute's tomes +2, various wands, various scrolls, Boots of Striding & Sprinting.

[ericgrau]

The best utility belt I've seen is to carry 100 scrolls of various low level spells. You don't need a caster class to do this if you don't want, only UMD. Plus PF has more ways to boost UMD.

Shurikens are likewise handy batarangs because they are cheap to enchant a variety of them with just the right ability you need for the job. I dunno if PF has ranged disarm but if you can do it it would be classic. Far shot would help that pesky range increment if you can afford the feats, otherwise wait on it.

Beyond that I'd say some kind of disabling monk or ninja or rogue. PF has a lot of status effect feats to look through, some of which are bonus feats for those classes (or for an alternate class of one of those). Shadow armor, invisibility and so on are handy. It's harder to pull off in a party but you can at least scout and assess the situation before letting your party do most of the damage, perhaps with the aid of your utility items and disables ("I found some vampires on the ceiling, here let me buff you all with spider climb and grease. Focus attacks on the one I reveal and incapacitate.")

[Bhaakon]

Engine did a great job, particularly the "Rich parents" trait (yeah, I laughed).

He seems to be short a feat, though. I'd suggest sap adept for extra non-lethal damage on sneak attacks (batman is all about the non-lethal damage, after all, and it works with unarmed strike).

[Calanon]

There are (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237056) so many of these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236612) threads made every week (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237034)




Batman
Male human ninja 13
\\ medium humanoid
Init +10; Senses Perception +19

DEFENSE
AC 24, touch 14, flat-footed 20 (+10 armor)
hp 88 (13d8+26)
Fort +10 Ref +16 Will +10
Defensive abilities improved uncanny dodge


OFFENSE
Speed 40 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +18\+13 (1d10+9)
Ranged Mwk Shuriken +14\+9
Special Attacks Sneak Attack +7d6

STATISTICS

Str 18 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 20 Wis 16 Cha 18
Base Atk +9 CMB +13 CMD 27
Traits Rich Parents, Reactionary
Feats Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Snake Fang, Snake Sidewind, Snake Style, Quick Draw
Skills Acrobatics +20, Climb +14, Bluff +20, Craft (Alchemy) +21, Diplomacy +20, Disable Device +21, Disguise +20, Intimidate +20, Knowledge (Local) +21, Knowledge (Nobility) +21, Perception +19, Sense Motive +19, Sleight of Hand +20, Stealth +35 Swim +13, Use Magic Device +20
Languages
SQ ninja tricks (Feather Fall, Sudden Disguise, Unarmed Combat Training, Vanishing Trick) master tricks (Invisible Blade, Unarmed Combat Mastery), ki pool 10, no trace +4, light steps

Gear Mithral breastplate of Greater Shadow +4, Amulet of Mighty Fists, Belt of Many Tools, mwk tools, 10 mwk shurikens, Cloak of resistance +4, all six attribute's tomes +2, various wands, Boots of Striding & Sprinting.

This is one of the most batman like characters I've ever seen in my entire life. I remember seeing one using Factotum instead of Ninja... was pretty cool

[Need_A_Life]

Power-Attacking, whip-using Tetori.
Explanation:

Power-Attack can be used to trigger a free Demoralize with a one-feat investment (not counting Power-Attack)
With a trait and three feats *ugh* you have reach and battlefield control and can use it to swing from high places. Wouldn't be batman without tying people up or escaping to roof-tops, now would it?
Tetori. You're still a monk, but you get to focus on pinning people. Stuff like Choke Hold, Neck Snap, Jaw Breaker etc. will be a laugh.
Utility belt is a bunch of scrolls, wands and potions and some UMD.


I'd prefer to build Batman as either a Gestalt character or a 3.5 artificer, though.

[Engine]

Engine did a great job, particularly the "Rich parents" trait (yeah, I laughed).

He seems to be short a feat, though. I'd suggest sap adept for extra non-lethal damage on sneak attacks (batman is all about the non-lethal damage, after all, and it works with unarmed strike).


You're right, I'll add that. Thanks.=)


This is one of the most batman like characters I've ever seen in my entire life. I remember seeing one using Factotum instead of Ninja... was pretty cool

Factotum would be probably stronger, but I think that Ninja (at least in Pathfinder) would suit better a Batman-like character. And by the way, at least in the Nolan's movies, Batman was trained by ninjas.=P

[grarrrg]

First off, Batman does NOT kill.
Wound/break bones, yes.
Kill NO.

Secondly, to really do Batman justice, this would have to be at least Gestalt.

Primary method of attack is Unarmed Strikes or a Merciful Weapon
(in no particular order)
Emissary (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---cavalier-archetypes/emissary) + Honor Guard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---cavalier-archetypes/honor-guard) Cavalier 4, Order of the Blue Rose (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-blue-rose):
Flat of the Blade (Ex)
At 2nd level, the cavalier of the order of the blue rose gains the ability to moderate his attacks in order to take an enemy alive. He no longer takes a –4 penalty when attacking with a lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage. When dealing nonlethal damage, the cavalier receives a +2 bonus on damage rolls. When the cavalier makes use of this ability, he must attempt to subdue his target without killing it; dealing lethal damage after using this ability, or allowing his allies to kill the target, is considered a violation of his edicts..
Emissary lets us move at full speed in Medium armor, and trades AWAY our bonus Teamwork feats (Batman works ALONE)
Honor Guard is mostly for flavor (don't gain/lose much)
Level 4 gets us Expert Trainer, which allows us to take the feat Horse Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/horse-master-combat), our CHARACTER level is now used for our Mount feature.
Oh, and the name of the horse is Robin :smallbiggrin:.

Martial Artist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/martial-artist) Monk 4, the DC of Stunning Fist is +1, Exploit Weakness is a Swift action Wisdom check for a chance to bypass DR/Hardness.

Ninja 4 for 2d6 Sneak Attack, Smoke Bombs, Pressure Points, and Uncanny Dodge.

We have 1 level left before the given max level of 13, so Unbreakable (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/unbreakable) Fighter it is for Endurance and Die Hard as bonus feats.


To upgrade to Gestalt add levels of Monk/Ninja/(full bab) to taste.


Race is Human of course, although it would be Human anyway for the extra Feat and Skill point/level.
Stats (30 point buy, w/3 level up points, w/Human +2 any)
Str 18 (15+3)
Dex 16 (15+1)
Con 14
Int 12 (11+1)
Wis 14
Cha 14

[Calanon]

Factotum would be probably stronger, but I think that Ninja (at least in Pathfinder) would suit better a Batman-like character. And by the way, at least in the Nolan's movies, Batman was trained by ninjas.=P

Justicar PrC (CW) can do Non-Lethal damage with all his attacks... Batman would indeed not kill anyone... break a bone and drag them back to the police? Hmm... Varies... Batman needs to be able to get information the fun way... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8w6pnWnqzWE#t=56s) :smallamused:

However! This is for Pathfinder... and unfortunately my knowledge of Pathfinder is... limited... but perhaps when I tire of 3.5 I shall venture forth to read PF books...

[Drothmal]

@Engine: That is awesome. I wasn't sure if all ninja would be able to keep him up with the combat, but it would seem it does very well

I loved the Righ parents trait :smallbiggrin:

@ Ericaglau: I could totally see the utility belt to be a ridiculous number of scrolls. I just wanted to avoid casting as main feature

@Calanon: I have to admit that I had not seen the other threads. On my defense, it seems that there are not as many with PF. But yeah... sorry about that

@Need_A_Life: The whip is a nice touch. That and shurickens as batarangs and I really get the feeling of the equipment

@grarrrg: "Oh, and the name of the horse is Robin ."

'nough said :smallbiggrin:

Jokes aside, I love the build. Definitely an option if I ever play Gestalt

[Calanon]

@Calanon: I have to admit that I had not seen the other threads. On my defense, it seems that there are not as many with PF. But yeah... sorry about that

Oh theres no need for defense, I actually find it quite humorous when multiple threads with the same topic pop up :smallsmile: Its not a bad thing I just enjoy showing everyone how often we truly think alike. We may be divided by our beliefs, ability scores, and skill points put into "System Mastery" but there is one thing we can all agree upon: Batman rules :smallamused:

[doko239]

Just had to add my two cents: add a hand crossbow with a Grapple Arrow from Adventurer's Armory :smallcool:

[Blyte]

I like this thread. I have recently been contemplating Captain America, myself, and I think he lends to Monk+Cavalier Gestalt.

Batman absolutely needs leadership, come on he's been through like 3 Robins.

I think Batman's skill set lends to Ninja+Alchemist Gestalt. <--- is there a alchy archetype that doesn't get a spell list? I just thought that the different bombs would be pretty slick for the dark knight.

perhaps pathfinder chronicler's "deep pockets"(?) ability could lend help to simulating his utility belt?

also I think Batman is more a Kirin style practitioner, since he is all about analyzing and exploiting weaknesses.

[grarrrg]

I like this thread. I have recently been contemplating Captain America, myself, and I think he lends to Monk+Cavalier Gestalt.

Batman absolutely needs leadership, come on he's been through like 3 Robins.

I think Batman's skill set lends to Ninja+Alchemist Gestalt. <--- is there a alchy archetype that doesn't get a spell list? I just thought that the different bombs would be pretty slick for the dark knight.

perhaps pathfinder chronicler's "deep pockets"(?) ability could lend help to simulating his utility belt?

In order:
For a low-level Captain America start, I highly recommend Ranger>Shield style. You can get some nice feats a LOT SOONER than other characters (without looking it up, I know there is one feat you can take at level 6 that any other character would have to wait until level 10+).
For a higher-level Cap start, then you can skip Ranger. My only complaint about Cavalier is you would have to trade away your Mount (or call your Mount "Bucky").

Batman has actually had (depending on current continuity) at least 5 Robins.
Richard Grayson (apparently the forum filter does not like his preferred name...)
Jason Todd (died, got better)
Tim Drake
Stephanie Brown (GIRL Robin)
Damien Wayne (actual son of Batman)

Alchemist is not the best choice. And Ninjas actually have a variety of Ninja Tricks that can enhance/change what their smoke bombs do, not as many as Alchemists though. I wouldn't go 'all in' on Alchemist, but I could definitely justify a 4 level dip. That would get you a fair supply of Bombs, and at least 2 Discoveries to enhance/change their effects (just don't overlap with Ninja).

Deep Pockets can NOT get 'magical' items (so no potions/scrolls), other than that, I agree it would be useful. But the $$ limit is based on how many Chronicler levels you have, and I don't see many of their other abilities being all that useful for Batman (or at least, not as useful as other class's abilities).

[Crasical]

Needs a Cloak of the Bat.

[Blyte]

In order:
For a low-level Captain America start, I highly recommend Ranger>Shield style. You can get some nice feats a LOT SOONER than other characters (without looking it up, I know there is one feat you can take at level 6 that any other character would have to wait until level 10+).
For a higher-level Cap start, then you can skip Ranger. My only complaint about Cavalier is you would have to trade away your Mount (or call your Mount "Bucky").

Batman has actually had (depending on current continuity) at least 5 Robins.
Richard Grayson (apparently the forum filter does not like his preferred name...)
Jason Todd (died, got better)
Tim Drake
Stephanie Brown (GIRL Robin)
Damien Wayne (actual son of Batman)

Alchemist is not the best choice. And Ninjas actually have a variety of Ninja Tricks that can enhance/change what their smoke bombs do, not as many as Alchemists though. I wouldn't go 'all in' on Alchemist, but I could definitely justify a 4 level dip. That would get you a fair supply of Bombs, and at least 2 Discoveries to enhance/change their effects (just don't overlap with Ninja).

Deep Pockets can NOT get 'magical' items (so no potions/scrolls), other than that, I agree it would be useful. But the $$ limit is based on how many Chronicler levels you have, and I don't see many of their other abilities being all that useful for Batman (or at least, not as useful as other class's abilities).


Captain America rode around on a motorcycle so I'd definitely keep the cavalier mount.

I think only 3 of those were actually "Robins", but yes even more of an argument for batman to have the leadership feat.

ninjas get tricks, but nowhere near the scope or strength of bat gadgets.

ranger, although an effective choice for advancing with shields quickly doesn't capture that Captain America was first and foremost a leader of teams and groups, wether his old special forces crew or the avengers or just bucky, "Captain" was a leader and Cavalier is the best class to capture that in my opinion.

[grarrrg]

I think only 3 of those were actually "Robins", but yes even more of an argument for batman to have the leadership feat.

Comicvine entry on Robin (http://www.comicvine.com/robin/29-1687/).
Nope, nailed all 5.
Stephanie "Girl Robin" Brown had the shortest run by far, and Damien is fairly recent.
Also, there is a sixth Robin, but she was in a story that took place a good many years into the future (and, technically, in an alternate universe).


ninjas get tricks, but nowhere near the scope or strength of bat gadgets.

No one class can come close to the sheer number of Bat Gadgets (except an Artificer, and those are PF3rd party only right now).
Part of the reason a "good" Batman build needs Gestalt, just so you can cram more abilities in.
And ALL Ninja is, admittedly, a poor idea, but SOME Ninja is definitely useful, especially for skills (can substitute Rogue and just take Ninja tricks, but then you'll probably need to spend a Talent getting a Ki Pool).


ranger, although an effective choice for advancing with shields quickly doesn't capture that Captain America was first and foremost a leader of teams and groups, wether his old special forces crew or the avengers or just bucky, "Captain" was a leader and Cavalier is the best class to capture that in my opinion.

Freebooter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/freebooter) and Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/guide) would like a word with you.
Admittedly they are not the best "leader" classes, but there are "leader" options for going Ranger.
And I did mention if starting at higher levels to just skip Ranger.

Cap is also quite skilled, and Rangers are the only Full-Bab class with more than 4 skill points.

At 2nd level Rangers can take the Shield Slam feat (normally level 6+), for a Free Bull Rush following a Shield Bash.
At 6th Shield Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shield-master-combat---final) (norm. level 11+), can use the same Shield Enchantment bonus for both Attacks AND AC.

Those are the 2 'big ones'.
Like I said, if doing a low-level Cap build, Ranger can be quite nice.