[PF] Competitive archery build for a ranger?

[gomipile]

Is there a good set of feats+archetype to make a Pathfinder ranger deal competitive damage? I'm hoping for something on the order of an optimized 3.5 Swift Hunter.

[Bhaakon]

What level?

[Yuukale]

how much is "competitive damage" ?

[Bhaakon]

I'm just going to say right now, swift hunter levels of damage against a broad range of enemies is out of reach for a ranger-based build in PF. If you want a high-damage archer, you're looking at paladin, luring cavalier, inquisitor, and zen archer, and only with limited-use abilities (smite, far challenge, bane, and ki arrows respectively).

A ranger can get pretty respectable damage with favored enemy and quarry, but only against a subset of enemies. You can also still use skirmishing via the scout rogue archetype, but it's exceptionally difficult to get 10' of movement in PF and still get off a full attack (the only way I know of off hand is to combine the skirmish-archetype ranger's surprise shift with a 5-ft step, but it's limited to 1/2 level+ Wis mod per day). Word spells may also allow it, but it's debatable, and no one uses word casting.

[Akal Saris]

Deadly aim, favored enemy applying to attack bonus, and the instant enemy spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/instant-enemy)l (a swift action cast) together help the PF ranger increase damage easily without losing too much accuracy against any opponent. But I doubt a PF ranger will be able to match the damage of a swift hunter that relies on travel devotion for skirmishing full attacks.

[grarrrg]

Deadly aim, favored enemy applying to attack bonus, and the

instant enemy spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/instant-enemy)l (a swift action

cast) together help the PF ranger increase damage easily without losing too much accuracy against any

opponent. But I doubt a PF ranger will be able to match the damage of a swift hunter that relies on travel

devotion for skirmishing full attacks.

While it is a nice spell, it's still a 3rd level Ranger spell.
He won't be able to cast it until level 10 at the earliest, and even then he has limited castings per day,

and each casting only affects ONE creature.
A great spell to have 1 or 2 prepared for the day, but not something to rely on.



Also, please see this linked post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12902283#post12902283) (I've already reposted it once).
It's a decent breakdown of all the (viable) archer classes in PF.

Ranger is roughly middle of the group. Although unlike the others it is not "locked in" to one specific archetype (Inquisitor also has choice).
I feel that Zen Archer Monk is a better overall choice (unless starting from level 1).


A Multi-classed Archer is also quite doable and effective. Mix-and-match the following to taste:
Zen Archer Monk 2 gives 2 choice of no-req feats, Perfect Strike and Weapon Focus (taking Rapid/Many shot is potentially useful with only 2 levels of Monk). Monk 3 adds Point-Blank Master and Wis-to-hit (optional, you can still use Dex if you want).
OR
Zen Archer Monk 8, you gain the above and: another 'choice' feat, Flurry effectively replaces Rapid/Many-shot now. You also gain Weapon Specialization.

Ranger 2 gives one Favored Enemy and a choice of no-req bonus feat.
OR
Ranger 6 gives another Feat, another Favored Enemy (and improves one of them by +2).

Archer Fighter gives feats (but you MUST meet the pre-reqs)
Archer 3 lets you perform a Combat Maneuver at range (additional maneuvers for every +4 levels)
OR
Archer 5 gives +1 Accuracy/Damage (+1 every +4 levels)
OR
Archer 9 effectively gives you the Point-Blank Master feat.

Inquisitor 5 grants a Judgement bonus of either +2 Accuracy or +2 Damage (or other bonuses if desired) and can be used twice/day, and the Bane ability (halfway between "favored enemy" and "smite evil"). You also get +Wis-to-Initiative and 2nd level Divine spells.
OR
Inquisitor 8 lets you use 2 Judgement bonuses at the same time (Accuracy is still +2, but Damage is +3), and you have 3/day uses. 3rd level Divine spells.

Adding levels of Paladin to the build are not advised, as they are Cha focused, and 3 of the above are Wis focused.

You can also dip an Arcane caster class and then take levels of Arcane Archer (while it is not an awesome class, it has solid Archery abilities). I'd recommend a Celestial>Empyreal Bloodline Sorcerer so you can use Wis for your Arcane casting.

[Corlindale]

While it is a nice spell, it's still a 3rd level Ranger spell.
He won't be able to cast it until level 10 at the earliest, and even then he has limited castings per day,

and each casting only affects ONE creature.
A great spell to have 1 or 2 prepared for the day, but not something to rely on.

I beg to differ. I can hardly think of any spell and any class that would benefit more from a bunch of third level pearls of power. I see no reason not to buy a couple (or more) of these as a mid-to-high level ranger, to ensure that you can always get Instant Enemy off. Getting +6 (at 10th) to attack and damage per arrow which stacks with anything is a HUGE deal which only gets better - and you usually don't use your swift actions for other important things as a Ranger.

Why exactly wouldn't you be using it all the time, when you get around to the levels where the cost of a 3rd level pearl doesn't cut greatly into WBL?

[grarrrg]

I beg to differ. I can hardly think of any spell and any class that would benefit more from a bunch of third level pearls of power....

Why exactly wouldn't you be using it all the time, when you get around to the levels where the cost of a 3rd level pearl doesn't cut greatly into WBL?

Upon reviewing the OTHER spells a Ranger gets for 3rd level I must agree with you completely.

The vast majority are 'utility' type spells.
The only 'combat' standouts are,

Instant Enemy

Venomous Bolt, Swift action Poison (spell) arrow. 1d3 Con damage/round for 6 rounds. A Fort save negates, but that's still some (potentially) sweet damage.

Strong Jaw, while not at all applicable to archery, it can improve a creature's damage with Natural Attacks by TWO size categories. Depending on your Animal Companion (and if any other PC's use natural weapons) this can be quite the nice buff (especially if there is a Summoner/Eidolon in the group).

[Cieyrin]

I beg to differ. I can hardly think of any spell and any class that would benefit more from a bunch of third level pearls of power. I see no reason not to buy a couple (or more) of these as a mid-to-high level ranger, to ensure that you can always get Instant Enemy off. Getting +6 (at 10th) to attack and damage per arrow which stacks with anything is a HUGE deal which only gets better - and you usually don't use your swift actions for other important things as a Ranger.

Why exactly wouldn't you be using it all the time, when you get around to the levels where the cost of a 3rd level pearl doesn't cut greatly into WBL?

If it's that important, couldn't you just buy a wand of Instant Enemy? A full wand of Instant Enemy is cheaper than 2 Pearls of Power (3rd) and you'd get 50 uses out of it and can use your spell slots for other spells. It has the drawback that you have to draw it each time you want to use it, since there isn't a PF version of Wand Chambers, at least that I'm aware of.

[Corlindale]

If it's that important, couldn't you just buy a wand of Instant Enemy? A full wand of Instant Enemy is cheaper than 2 Pearls of Power (3rd) and you'd get 50 uses out of it and can use your spell slots for other spells. It has the drawback that you have to draw it each time you want to use it, since there isn't a PF version of Wand Chambers, at least that I'm aware of.

Normally I would agree, but a huge part of the appeal of Instant Enemy is the swift action casting time. Since wands always require a standard action at least, Instant Enemy is not optimal as a wand spell. Not to mention the further action economy complications involved in getting a hand free to use the wand before wielding the bow with 2 hands.