Sniping and Hiding as a free action?

[Aerlock]

What ways are there to get around the Move action requirement to hide when sniping (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm#sniping)?

I found the 10th level Halfling substitution level but I'm hoping to find more options as my current build doesn't have room to take Rogue all the way up to 10.

- Aerlock

[Ernir]

By my reading of the Hide skill, the Sniping option is (often) useless.

It's possible to hide as part of attacking (see the first paragraph), at a -20 penalty. So just do that. Little need to hide after the attack as a move action when you can simply hide while attacking.

[Aerlock]

Hrmm... So that means I can full attack and stay hidden after each attack as long as I make my Hide roll at a -20?

If that's the case what are ways to boost Hide? I'm already going to be Tiny with Dex pumped to the sky.

- Aerlock

[Ernir]

Hrmm... So that means I can full attack and stay hidden after each attack as long as I make my Hide roll at a -20?
That's how I read it.

Note that this will almost definitely require you to get some form of Hide in Plain Sight, and either the ability to generate concealment or ignore the requirement for it (Camouflage).

If that's the case what are ways to boost Hide? I'm already going to be Tiny with Dex pumped to the sky.

- Aerlock
A Ring of Chameleon Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#chameleonPower) is useful. You could ask your DM for a more powerful custom item (price guideline for a competence bonus is 100xbonus^2), or whether you can look for a more powerful Ring of Chameleon Power. It seems to be priced at 2.7k for an off-slot command word activated item of Disguise Self, +10k for the skill bonus.

There are many items in both the Dungeon Master's Guide and the Magic Item Compendium that provide smaller competence bonuses, too.

Psionic Tattoos/Dorjes/Power Stones of Chameleon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/chameleon.htm) and Potions/Wands/Scrolls of Camouflage (Spell Compendium) are useful if you can prepare.

[Cespenar]

Hrmm... So that means I can full attack and stay hidden after each attack as long as I make my Hide roll at a -20?

If that's the case what are ways to boost Hide? I'm already going to be Tiny with Dex pumped to the sky.

- Aerlock

Masterwork item (Cardboard Box) for a +2 bonus, to start. :smalltongue:

[Aerlock]

Note that this will almost definitely require you to get some form of Hide in Plain Sight, and either the ability to generate concealment or ignore the requirement for it (Camouflage).

I have the Dark Template thanks to a Greater Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis and the Smoking weapon enchant from Faeruns Lords of Darkness on some shield spikes so I think I have both those bases covered.


A Ring of Chameleon Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#chameleonPower) is useful. You could ask your DM for a more powerful custom item (price guideline for a competence bonus is 100xbonus^2), or whether you can look for a more powerful Ring of Chameleon Power. It seems to be priced at 2.7k for an off-slot command word activated item of Disguise Self, +10k for the skill bonus.

I think I will have to fit this ring into my build. I have two rings already tho so I'll have to see about re-locating my custom ring to another slot. This does bring one question to mind: If I am Tiny sized and I make myself appear 1 foot shorter, does that make me diminutive and grant me the size bonuses of a diminutive creature?


There are many items in both the Dungeon Master's Guide and the Magic Item Compendium that provide smaller competence bonuses, too.

Yeah I remembered the Shadow armor enchants after I posted and went and searched the SRD and found a few competence bonus items that had lesser bonuses. I'll have to scrounge up a Magic Item Compendium and dig through it.


Psionic Tattoos/Dorjes/Power Stones of Chameleon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/chameleon.htm) and Potions/Wands/Scrolls of Camouflage (Spell Compendium) are useful if you can prepare.

Well it so happens that I have a level of Psychic Warrior already in the build so I can easily choose that as my power.

- Aerlock

[That_guy_there]

Masterwork item (Cardboard Box) for a +2 bonus, to start. :smalltongue:

Awesome. that just got added to my list of "standard adventurer's wagon".:smallbiggrin:

Replaces Masterwork Item (Batman Cowl) for hide.

[Lyndworm]

Masterwork Tool (Batman's Cowl) is for Intimidate, silly. :smalltongue: The jury's still out on whether or not you can wear it at the same time as Masterwork Tool (Clark Kent's Glasses) for the bonus to Disguise, though.

[Person_Man]

Oddball suggestions you may wish to consider:


The Shadow Mantle soulmeld bound to your Shoulders chakra creates a globe of darkness around you 5 ft * essentia invested. (That range may not sound like much, but keep in mind that you're limited to 30 feet by Precision restrictions anyway). It's oddly worded, and states that "you are completely aware of all creatures within the radius of darkness, but you are invisible to them unless they have some way of piercing magical darkness. On the other hand, creatures beyond the radius of your darkness are invisible to you, but they can guess your location within the darkness." And you can always guess their direction of enemies with a Listen check (which the soulmeld provides a bonus to) and just move in their direction as needed until they're in your sphere. So it's essentially a somewhat weaker version of continuous Improved Invisibility with weird awareness rules. The nifty thing about Shadow Mantle is that it's a Swift Action to allocate essentia into or out of it, and it only takes 2 feats to get and use, Shape Soulmeld and Open Lesser Chakra. The only caveat is that Open Lesser Chakra has a pre-req of 12th character level, and you'll need some essentia (and thus 2 levels of Totemist, or an Incarnum race and Feats).

Winged Warrior feat: As a Move Action you can create a hemisphere of concealment (for those in the cloud) and total concealment (for those trying to look into the cloud) around you, which allows you to hide. Combine with Greater Manyshot or Standard Action spells/items/abilities, and maybe some form of free movement. Races of the Wild pg 153.

Blend into Shadows feat: Allows you to make a Hide check as a Swift Action, even while being observed (basically granting Hide in Plain Site for a Feat). You'll still take the Hide penalty for Sniping, but plenty of enemies have poor Spot checks. The caveat is that you need the spell-like ability to create Darkness, which means that you need to be a Drow or take at least one level of Warlock or Dragonfire Adept. Drow of the Underdark.

Anything that reduces your size (Reduce Person, Compression, Alter Self, etc) gives you a +4 Hide bonus per size category.

Whisper Gnomes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) get small size, 30 ft movement, +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks, and racial Silence once per day. Races of Stone.

[Dr.Orpheus]

There are a few feats that reduce hide when sniping in the Races of the wild, and being a skulk from races of destiny helps hide a ton and you will still be medium so you don't get tiny weapons.

[Cieyrin]

By my reading of the Hide skill, the Sniping option is (often) useless.

It's possible to hide as part of attacking (see the first paragraph), at a -20 penalty. So just do that. Little need to hide after the attack as a move action when you can simply hide while attacking.

Check the Action section, hiding is usually part of a move, which the hide after sniping is meant to be for. As for maintaining your hiding position, Extended Greater Invisibility will net you an effective +20 after the sniping penalty, since it provides a +40 for being invisible and not moving.

If you want a tricky way of doing this, you could have a Marshall cohort Grant Move you so you could full attack and then use your granted move to hide again, as well as making you more accurate with the appropriate auras. Alternatively, Lesser Celerity or Hustle will do the job, though Hustle would be the preferable solution, since you don't have to deal with the daze Celerity forces upon you.

[nedz]

By my reading of the Hide skill, the Sniping option is (often) useless.

It's possible to hide as part of attacking (see the first paragraph), at a -20 penalty. So just do that. Little need to hide after the attack as a move action when you can simply hide while attacking.

Be a Ranger, max out your hide, cast Camoflage and Forest Fold for +20 hide. Now you do need to be in natural terrain and they do get HiPs so very very late.


Check the Action section, hiding is usually part of a move, which the hide after sniping is meant to be for. As for maintaining your hiding position, Extended Greater Invisibility will net you an effective +20 after the sniping penalty, since it provides a +40 for being invisible and not moving.

If you want a tricky way of doing this, you could have a Marshall cohort Grant Move you so you could full attack and then use your granted move to hide again, as well as making you more accurate with the appropriate auras. Alternatively, Lesser Celerity or Hustle will do the job, though Hustle would be the preferable solution, since you don't have to deal with the daze Celerity forces upon you.

Greater Invisibility is good, as is Swift Invisibility; until you come up against someone with See Invisibility or True Seeing. Then seeing as they are a caster: you are toast.

Marshal's GMA is excellent, shame its only 1 per day per 4 levels.