DM Help - How will the suprise round work here

[killem2]

So, my group is starting to close out this dungeon we have been doing for two sessions, and the 3rd session will end up wrapping it up in a nice package.

Well, there is a secret portal that will open after a secret combination is used on this otherwise normal looking safe, and it transports anyone in a 35x10 ft area (basically anyone standing in front of the safe) to a secret, large, and sealed off room from the rest of the dungeon.

It is not lit well at all once you arrive at where the portal to the secret room is. A faint glow from the portals gives a magical aura of only about 10 feet, shadowy about 15.

In this room, there will be a necro mancer, two fighters and three rogues. That room is well lit with torches. The rogues will be gaurding the portal area but in the darkness area.

All of the rogues are wearing magical visors that grant 30ft dark vision.

In our group though we have two dwarfs, two elves, a gnome, a halfling, guard dog, elven hound, an a bear cub.

Now, once they come around a couple pillars they will see the necromancer, and the two fighters, but don't know about the three rogues guarding the portal.

If all members present success in moving silently and hiding, what happens when my party encounters the necro/fight/fight group, and can suprise attack them, and the other three rogues, succeed in moving silently and hiding against the group.


TLDR : We have group B sneaking up on a group, A, though group C is sneaking up on group B.

Who goes first?

[dsmiles]

I'd probably let B get a surprise round on A (assuming that A does not see or hear B), while C gets a surprise round on B (assuming C stays hidden at least until B's surprise round). Then the regular initiative order would start.

[mattie_p]

OK, this assumes a couple of things. Group C (the rogues) have a better hide than the players spot. Group B (the PCs) have a better hide/move silently than Group A's (the necromancer+fighters) spot/listen. If these things are true, then Group C should have a surprise round, then all roll initiative and proceed.

If group C can somehow notify Group A, then both A/C get a surprise round. If Group B can spot the rogue(s), they get a surprise round.
If opening the safe causes some kind of warning inside the chamber (very likely for a secret entrance, I'd do it if it was my lair), then A/C get a surprise round.

There are other scenarios of course, but all depend on spot/listen/hide/move silent rolls, any warning bells or whistles, traps, spells, etc. You can probably roll those privately and narrate the outcome, or roll in public to increase the dread and build suspense.

[Namfuak]

Assuming that the rogues do not get spotted, spot the players, and the players are not spotted by the necromancer, and the rogues do not alert the necromancer (which it would seem like they would), the rogues should probably be able to move before the players if they so desire. However, if they are not alerting the necromancer in the first place, it would seem like they would try to gank the casters after the melee all charge at the necromancer, so if you want to make it simple you could just play it that way instead (group surprises necromancer, rogues surprise group, then normal combat starts).