Where would your ideal Assassin's Creed game be set?

[Jzadek]

I know that a lot of people are disappointed in the setting for AC3, and for a number of reasons, but I'm personally going to miss the feeling of being in a big city most of all. Sure, the game could really use something fresh, going outside the box, but it seems a shame to remove that. So, I'm going to put the question to you guys - let's say that you get to suggest were AC4 is set. It doesn't need to be any particular spot in the timeline - it can be Ancient Greece of the year 3000 AD.

[Comet]

For me the setting for Ezio's adventures was pretty much the best we're going to get for this sort of gameplay.

Now I just want them to figure out how they can make the Assassin's Creed gameplay work in Desmond's timeframe. It could be really, really cool or not, but sidestepping the problem for yet another game is making me kind of nervous about the whole thing.

[Fri]

one of the world wars or the era around it? though they do already have an assassin creed-like game set in the world war 1.

[Maxios]

one of the world wars or the era around it? though they do already have an assassin creed-like game set in the world war 1.

They do? What's the name of it?

Victorian-era London.

[Psyren]

Qin Dynasty China, in control of the assassin Wei Yu (the one whose statue you can find under the villa in AC2.)

[Sith_Happens]

Now I just want them to figure out how they can make the Assassin's Creed gameplay work in Desmond's timeframe. It could be really, really cool or not, but sidestepping the problem for yet another game is making me kind of nervous about the whole thing.

Definitely this, the American Revolution is already well into the "everybody uses guns now" portion of history. Jump forward eighty years or so into the "guns are actually accurate and can be fired quickly" portion of history, and suddenly the current combat system isn't going to cut it.

[GloatingSwine]

I still think the other rumoured setting, the French Revolution, would have been a more interesting setting. The backdrop of of the Reign of Terror would have been a fantastic environment for conspiracy theory paranoia.

[Thiyr]

Personally, I'd be down with the 1990s/2000s, so slightly before desmond's timeframe. Why? I'm sure they can figure out a good bit for gameplay even if things need to change (urban assassin = batman?), but more importantly, for some reason I think y2k and 9/11 would both make interesting fodder for the templar/assassin bits. particularly if to some degree they were assassin-based to deal with the templar.

Definitely something "too soon" for most people, but still, I'd find it interesting.

[Othesemo]

Personally, I think it'd be fascinating to have a game centered right around the time of Socrates, focused on the decline of Athens. Still, that's probably more my love of Socrates than my interest in ancient greece.

[Tengu_temp]

Disney World.

[BRC]

I still think the other rumoured setting, the French Revolution, would have been a more interesting setting. The backdrop of of the Reign of Terror would have been a fantastic environment for conspiracy theory paranoia.

This, sooo much this. So much change over such a short period. The game starts out under the Monarchy with royalist troops, then, as you continue through the story, things change. Royalist troops get replaced by wandering mobs, incited by Jacobin rhetoric to seek out Counter-revolutionaries. The Assassin can kill people by breaking into their houses and planting evidence that gets them send to the Guillotine.Again and Again Paris changes, until finally Napoleon appears and restores order, only to be be overthrown himself. The game ends during the Hundred Days.
Other Ideas

The Boxer Uprising in China would be interesting, with the idea of rioting and chaos.

For a modern-ish game, Cold-War era Berlin, with the Assassin moving between East and west, perhaps establishing multiple identities.

[Hazzardevil]

I honestly like the idea of it being set in Victorian era Britain or medieval Britain. Around the time of Altair, but set somewhere else, like England or France.

[Brother Oni]

I honestly like the idea of it being set in Victorian era Britain or medieval Britain. Around the time of Altair, but set somewhere else, like England or France.

Well post-Altair, as the Assassins didn't disperse until after his death.

Something set during the Hundred Years War perhaps? It'd be interesting to see the Assassins go up against Joan of Arc (who obviously has a Piece of Eden of some sort), especially since the English pretty much lose every engagement against her, but manage to get her burnt as a heretic at the end, showcasing one of the Assassins' less than shining moments.

From a mechanics point of view, less effective gunpower weapons so they can stave off the engine/mechanics redesign for another game but seen before gameplay (did it all before with Altair) and a definite technological step back from Ezio's time (no parachutes, hidden gun or double blade/hookblade among other things).

Edit: The more I think about it, the more interesting it seems from a story point of view, especially if you follow an Assassin family (father, son, grandson) throughout the whole Hundred Years War, with each generation showcasing the gradual loss in idealism giving way to pragmatism (or for a twist, do it the other way round, only for the grandson to come full circle with getting Joan burnt as a heretic).

Perhaps if you set it up like the story in Suikoden 3, with three interwoven strands and checkpoints unlocking sections in other strands?

[Fri]

They do? What's the name of it?

Victorian-era London.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saboteur

From what I heard, the gameplay is pretty similar with Assassin's Creed. And it turned out to be set in WW2.

[Brother Oni]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saboteur

From what I heard, the gameplay is pretty similar with Assassin's Creed. And it turned out to be set in WW2.

Well minus nearly all attempts at stealth - you got a silenced pistol and your disguises generally held up for about 5-10 seconds under scrutiny.

It was far easier and more fun to go in all guns blazing than try and stealth your way through a mission.

This is not to mention the Boy's Own Adventures version of WW2 history, with Russian front veterans showing up less than 6 months after Paris was taken, plus other more detailed issues that aren't mentionable on this board.

AC makes a fairly good attempt at integrating its story in with known historical facts (for example Caterina Sforza was imprisioned in the Castel Sant'Angelo by the Pope, Rodrigo Borgia) and in my opinion, does a good job of bringing historical people to life (the sheer amount of abuse Caterina Sforza hurls at the Templars during the siege of Forli, or Leonardo friendship with Ezio).
Whether these depictions are accurate, I can't say, but they make them more memorable.

[Premier]

- Ancient Rome, either the late Republic or the Empire, would be interesting - but they've already milked the city with the Renaissance games, so it would feel like another skin off the fox. A pity, because both periods would provide endless opportunities to weave the Assassins/Templars storyline into historical facts.

- Ancient China (or, as someone suggested it, the Boxer Rebellion era) would be interesting.

- Call me weird, but I'd love to see a game set amidst the great pre-Columbian civilisations of Meso- and South America. A unique look, cities and wilderness in close proximity for a variety of terrain, no metal weapons, and the arrival of the conquistadores.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I honestly don't understand the hate against the setting.

Consider the following:
American Revolutionary games are rarely done. I don't, in fact, properly know of any.

We're still restricted by our framing device. That being Desmond's ancestors. It's highly improbable that Ezio's descendants emmigrated to China, back to Europe, and then over to the US. It's much easier to follow the path that lingered in Europe and then headed stateside.

The series has, multiple times, hinted at an American locale being important throughout all of Ezio's journies. Sean practically flat-out stated at the end of Brotherhood that there was going to be a game in Colonial New York (Watch the end cutscene, see where he's dissecting what symbols he sees, Apply five minuets of internet research).

Desmond is revealed in Revelations to have been captured from New York. That's just too many coincidences.
Jupiter's speech at the end of Revelations heavily implies New York as well, especially in light of Sean.

As for the obvious Americans v British issue with the Revolutionary war and all, it's never stated that Americans will all be slathered with the "Good guy" paint. There's bound to be good guys and bad guys on both sides of the war.

If the game doesn't feature at least one "Sudden but inevitable betrayal", I will be furious. If it doesn't make one of them somebody Besides Benedict Arnold (AKA: That guy famous for being a traitor), I will be severely disappointed.

Oh. Yeah. Ideal "Assassin's Creed" setting?

American Civil/Revolutionary wars are great for me, but I kind of want a Victorian England one. If only for steampunk gadgets.

[Craft (Cheese)]

As for the obvious Americans v British issue with the Revolutionary war and all, it's never stated that Americans will all be slathered with the "Good guy" paint. There's bound to be good guys and bad guys on both sides of the war.

Never ever ever expect a game company to create interesting characters.

Though honestly, moreso than the British being portrayed as Evil, I'm far more concerned with how the native americans are going to be portrayed (the game takes place near where the Mohawks lived, IIRC). I have a very bad feeling they're just going to be colored people to shoot at.

[Calemyr]

Prohibition Era United States - Gangsters, intrigue, popular revolt, bootleggers, and moonshine. Crime and violence hand in hand, in a setting that is generally presented and upbeat and optimistic despite how bad they could actually get.

Or maybe it's just because I really liked the anime Baccano!. Still, I could see a lot of opportunity for an Itallian immigrant with a certain set of family skills trying to find a life in this hectic era.

[Loki_42]

Never ever ever expect a game company to create interesting characters.

Though honestly, moreso than the British being portrayed as Evil, I'm far more concerned with how the native americans are going to be portrayed (the game takes place near where the Mohawks lived, IIRC). I have a very bad feeling they're just going to be colored people to shoot at.

Given that the protagonist is half Mohawk, I don't really see that happening. Also, about the French revolution thing, I think I read somewhere that Ubisoft is planning on at least two games set with this protagonist, and if they wanted, the two times are certainly close enough together, if they wanted both revolutions.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Given that the protagonist is half Mohawk, I don't really see that happening.

Oh god oh god that makes it even worse!! D:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Never ever ever expect a game company to create interesting characters.

Though honestly, moreso than the British being portrayed as Evil, I'm far more concerned with how the native americans are going to be portrayed (the game takes place near where the Mohawks lived, IIRC). I have a very bad feeling they're just going to be colored people to shoot at.

There you go, inferring things I didn't imply.

And, honestly, expecting a series which has never had a clear-cut black-and-white sterotyping of characters to continue that tradition isn't too far off.
And this isn't a Westren. I seriously doubt the Mohawks are going to be treated like targets. I recall somebody saying that Conner's wejho status is actually a point of conflict with him, saying he's torn between the American and the Mohawk ways and such, which is reflected in his garb and his choice of weapons. Supposedly.


Oh god oh god that makes it even worse!! D:

Wait. What? How?

[Craft (Cheese)]

Wait. What? How?


And this isn't a Westren. I seriously doubt the Mohawks are going to be treated like targets. I recall somebody saying that Conner's wejho status is actually a point of conflict with him, saying he's torn between the American and the Mohawk ways and such, which is reflected in his garb and his choice of weapons. Supposedly.

This.

Call me cynical, but I've just seen this happen way too many times: "Our hero's story of struggling with his identity of being half-savage!" I'm not optimistic that they can portray the Mohawks as what they actually were, rather than some one-dimensional stereotype.

[Thanatos 51-50]

This.

Call me cynical, but I've just seen this happen way too many times: "Our hero's story of struggling with his identity of being half-savage!" I'm not optimistic that they can portray the Mohawks as what they actually were, rather than some one-dimensional stereotype.

But they Don't say half-"Savage". I didn't say half-Savage. I said Wejho. Which is a (Admittedly, Mohican) word meaning "Half-blood".
Mohawk and Colonial Culture were decidedly very different.

And I feel obliged to point out that the "Noble Indian" trope is just as overplayed as the "Savage, barbaric Indian" trope.

[BRC]

This.

Call me cynical, but I've just seen this happen way too many times: "Our hero's story of struggling with his identity of being half-savage!" I'm not optimistic that they can portray the Mohawks as what they actually were, rather than some one-dimensional stereotype.

I can't say that's a common stereotype anymore.

The stereotypical Kindergarten version of the American Revolution dosn't even mention Native Americans. It's about how the Evil British were taxing the poor, freedom-loving colonists into oblivion and so the good Americans threw tea into a harbor and had a revolution in which scrappy- freedom loving colonists beat the evil king and his arm of red-coated bad guys, and then everything was perfect.
This fails to mention that those taxes were lower than in England, and that defending those colonies during the 7-years war had led to a crippling debt for the British empire. It dosn't mention the very complex relationship between colonists and natives, or how important the French were in allowing the Colonists to win, or that there was political pressure in England supporting the Colonists, ect ect. It's just about Scrappy Freedom-loving Farmers vs Evil Kings.

You very rarely see the "Savage Indian" stereotype anymore. In this age of Avatar and Pocahontas it's much more common to get the opposite stereotype, the "Noble Indian" who lives in peaceful harmony with nature until the greedy europeans/americans/humans/whatever show up. In that case, you get the "White Messiah" story, in which the Nature-loving natives are helpless victims in the face of the evil technology until a European/American/whatever joins their society and and leads them against the evil. But that's a separate issue, and I doubt we'll run into it here.

[Craft (Cheese)]

But they Don't say half-"Savage". I didn't say half-Savage. I said Wejho. Which is a (Admittedly, Mohican) word meaning "Half-blood".
Mohawk and Colonial Culture were decidedly very different.

Of course. My concern isn't that they'll attack the Mohawk peoples openly: They'd never get away with that. Mine is the more subtle concern that the character's positive qualities will all be attributed to (or at least implied to stem from) his white half somehow, the native side only being there to give the character an "exotic" flavor. If you've ever read any romance novels this is done all the friggin time there, and is quite distressing.


And I feel obliged to point out that the "Noble Indian" trope is just as overplayed as the "Savage, barbaric Indian" trope.

Don't even get me started on that: The idea that native peoples are "more in-tune with nature" and "don't get hung up over superficial, silly things like white folk do" and all the other romanticist fantasies is probably even more wrong than the portrayal of non-whites as being bloodthirsty monsters. Not to mention just as demeaning and over-simplifying.

[BRC]

Of course. My concern isn't that they'll attack the Mohawk peoples openly: They'd never get away with that. Mine is the more subtle concern that the character's positive qualities will all be attributed to (or at least implied to stem from) his white half somehow, the native side only being there to give the character an "exotic" flavor. If you've ever read any romance novels this is done all the friggin time there, and is quite distressing.

I can't really say I'm afraid of this happening. It's a possibility, at this point everything is, but I've never seen anything like that happen in a video game. Mind you, I've never seen a video game really address racism outside of the context of Fantasy or Science fiction, where black and white get along fine because they're too busy teaming up on Green. However, something as specific as "Attributing all his positive qualities to his being half white" I just don't see happening in this day and age.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

They do? What's the name of it?

Victorian-era London.


I still think the other rumoured setting, the French Revolution, would have been a more interesting setting. The backdrop of of the Reign of Terror would have been a fantastic environment for conspiracy theory paranoia.

Victorian London or Revolutionary Paris would be my ideal settings.

I've said this before, but I have MANY hang-ups about the Revolutionary war. Specifically, about the complete ignorance of the fact that a LARGE minority of the population supported the British, and suffered for it. My ancestor's were driven out of their homes by their own neighbours, and that's an issue that's completely ignored. The "civil war" aspect is ignored. It wasn't "Americans versus British", it was "Americans versus Other Americans and British".

[Winthur]

I'd love the Assassin's Creed 4 game to be set in medieval Japan. However, you'd be still playing the same protagonist, whose ethnicity doesn't fit the realia and forces him to go into hiding. He'd infiltrate exotic castles to murder feudals for hire.

Your uniform or disguise or whatever, however, wouldn't allow you at all to penetrate or assassinate anything. You would instantly get stopped dead in your tracks by psychic ninjas who would check your ID. Isolationist Japan would be very displeased with visits from gaijins, and psychic ninjas would notice the tone of your skin right away even if your uniform conceals everything. They would shout out one tired phrase to stop you and chase you until you are forced to load your game. This would emphasize the sneaking part of the levels and make the gameplay that much richer.

Randomly they would get ran over by a cart and it would magically alert other ninjas to your position.

I'm sure if one were to play that kind of game, he would keep playing and playing even though he'd hate the game's guts and the stealth genre as a whole.

[KoboldRevenge]

I agree with someone above, something set in Central America with the Aztecs or the Incas. It'd be interesting to see what those cities were like.

I have no idea what the story would be though.

[Brother Oni]

However, something as specific as "Attributing all his positive qualities to his being half white" I just don't see happening in this day and age.

How about assigning all his positive qualities to his Assassin ideals, over his colonist/Mohawk cultural beliefs?
That said, to the Mohawk, they probably wouldn't bother drawing a distinction between Assassin and colonist beliefs.

Which raises another question - since Connor's father is a Mohawk, does that mean he's going to get his Assassin indoctrination from his mother or an Assassin stranger he meets in his youth?


[Snip AC in Japan description]

Go play Tenchu. There's more than enough iterations of that series to scratch your itch. *Imagines Winthur sobbing into his controller, hating the game but unable to stop playing* :smalltongue:

That said, a more 'realistic' version of sneaky ninja shennanigans would be welcome. The Tenchu series, while being the most accurate version of Japanese ninja games, still focuses on the semi-supernatural myths of ninja, rather than the way they actually did things (get themselves hired as a castle staff and poison the garrison on a pre-arranged signal).

[Winthur]

Go play Tenchu. There's more than enough iterations of that series to scratch your itch. *Imagines Winthur sobbing into his controller, hating the game but unable to stop playing* :smalltongue:


Honestly after Hitman 2 the only way I can hate the Orient and myself even more is if I played Daikatana.

[Hazzardevil]

I doubt that Ubisoft would let any of the writers include anything racist in an AC game. They are on very shaky ground writing a game where catholics are all villains and you are a muslim in the first game, but a general Europeon later on fighting just about everyone.



Which raises another question - since Connor's father is a Mohawk.

Where has it been stated his name is Conner? because I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. And to be honest I was expecting more of an indian sounding name like in other media where they get names like running eagle and flying bear.

[Othesemo]

His mother is a mohawk, not his father.

Also, he has two names- Connor Kenway from his father, and Ratohnhaké:ton from his mother.

Link (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Connor_Kenway)

[Sith_Happens]

I've said this before, but I have MANY hang-ups about the Revolutionary war. Specifically, about the complete ignorance of the fact that a LARGE minority of the population supported the British, and suffered for it. My ancestor's were driven out of their homes by their own neighbours, and that's an issue that's completely ignored. The "civil war" aspect is ignored. It wasn't "Americans versus British", it was "Americans versus Other Americans and British".

I don't think anyone's ruled out the possibility of this being explored in some capacity in the game story. In fact, the whole Whigs vs. Tories issue sounds like perfect fodder for the franchise.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I don't think anyone's ruled out the possibility of this being explored in some capacity in the game story. In fact, the whole Whigs vs. Tories issue sounds like perfect fodder for the franchise.

No, but I'm not expecting it. If anyone would pull it off, though, it would be Ubisoft Montreal...

[Cogwheel]

Prehistoric.


Don't tell me you don't want to see a sneaky T-Rex assassin. I mean, we could go raptors, but that's just easy mode by comparison.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Prehistoric.


Don't tell me you don't want to see a sneaky T-Rex assassin. I mean, we could go raptors, but that's just easy mode by comparison.

Reminds me of a brilliant quote that came up in conversation with an oooold frient yesterday.

"Dammit, the last time I was accidentally nudged by a T-rex after being stuck on my back for 3 days... oh wait, that's never happened to me. NEW LIFE GOAL!"

I still can't think of a time-period that would be better than Victorian London or Revolutionary Paris, though.

[Cogwheel]

Reminds me of a brilliant quote that came up in conversation with an oooold frient yesterday.

"Dammit, the last time I was accidentally nudged by a T-rex after being stuck on my back for 3 days... oh wait, that's never happened to me. NEW LIFE GOAL!"

I still can't think of a time-period that would be better than Victorian London or Revolutionary Paris, though.

Victorian London with dinosaurs.

I guess we can still have the lasers and jetpacks and laser jetpacks, though, if you're going to insist on historical accuracy.

[Brother Oni]

I doubt that Ubisoft would let any of the writers include anything racist in an AC game. They are on very shaky ground writing a game where catholics are all villains and you are a muslim in the first game, but a general Europeon later on fighting just about everyone.

With regard to Catholics all being villains, I'm going to point to the history of the Church during those times and say it's not unjustified.

Is it stated anywhere that Altair is Muslim? Aside from a single Animus transition screen which hints at the 72 virgins misconception, he seems fairly non-religious, being an Assassin above all else (which is emphasised in that he freely kills Crusaders and Saracens), thus he's really a Palestinian/Syrian fighting everybody.


Where has it been stated his name is Conner? because I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. And to be honest I was expecting more of an indian sounding name like in other media where they get names like running eagle and flying bear.

Further to Othesemo's post, all the historical protagonists have names befitting their appearance - Altair and Ezio meaning 'eagle' in Arabic and Italian (or rather 'bird' and eagle, apparently), and Connor meaning 'hound' from the Gaelic root.

Altair and Ezio's appearance both resemble raptors, and their gameplay and environment reflect this (lookout points and rooftop running for example), while Connor is much closer to the ground, with apparently no high buildings in AC3, thus 'hound' being more accurate than eagle.

[Triaxx]

Middle Mycenean.

Fine dinner ware to break, AWESOME looking cities. And islands so we can play around on boats. Because boats are awesome.

Plus we can hide in the magazines and kill people looking for a meal...

And best of all, my Art History teacher will swoon with joy.

[Caewil]

I'm going to have to agree with revolutionary france - it's the era which represented the triumph of enlightenment values. Plus I don't think many good games have been done on that era outside the RTS genre.

[Hazzardevil]

With regard to Catholics all being villains, I'm going to point to the history of the Church during those times and say it's not unjustified.

You get enough people in one place, no matter what you will eventually get a nice person.
Is it stated anywhere that Altair is Muslim? Aside from a single Animus transition screen which hints at the 72 virgins misconception, he seems fairly non-religious, being an Assassin above all else (which is emphasised in that he freely kills Crusaders and Saracens), thus he's really a Palestinian/Syrian fighting everybody.

The crusaders focused on Jews, the french and Muslims during the crusades, I don't see them picking a fight with a huge organisation of capable fighters without good reason. Stupid me, the apple of Eden disappeared from my mind completely. I still think that the order is either predominantly muslim.

Where I got the idea the assasins are muslims.
[QUOTE=Escapist Magazine]
The tangled plot of the first Assassin's Creed game is a labyrinth of conspiracy and counter-conspiracy. The game opens with the explanatory note "This work of fiction was designed, developed, and produced by a multicultural team of various faiths and beliefs." It shows. Assassin's Creed is quite possibly the most sophisticated and complex depiction of the Crusades that Western popular culture has yet produced. Muslims and Christians alike are shown to have fanatics, thinkers, madmen, thieves, and honorable warriors among their ranks. By analogical extension, it's also one of the most nuanced depictions of contemporary Western and Islamic relations in American culture. From the perspective of this Muslim Arab gamer, Assassin's Creed is a work of genius. And I swear it's not just because, as a guy named Saladin, I get an ego-boost every time Altair passes by the rabble-rousing street preacher who says "We must be strong, my brothers! Strong like Saladin!"

Both Civ III and Assassin's Creed also locate their Eastern protagonists in the past. But they offer a more nuanced view of the past by calling into question the whole simplistic good/evil divide. More provocatively, they potentially put the player in the surprising position of a Muslim hero facing off against Western enemies.

The relatively short history of videogame depictions of Muslim characters so far closely mirrors the rest of American popular culture, but that doesn't mean that games must continue to follow suit. Intriguing possibilities for a more honest portrayal of Middle Easterners are already presenting themselves. Games like Assassin's Creed and Civilization have paved the way for diverse depictions of Muslim heroes. More controversially, the Medal of Honor franchise - in a move that has infuriated armchair patriots but has met with mixed reactions from actual soldiers - will soon complicate simplistic hero/villain dichotomies by offering the option to play as the Taliban during multiplayer matches. I don't know that such moves will forever solve the dilemma of the Middle East's depiction in gaming. But I do know that I'm not the only Muslim geek out there hoping to spend more of my gaming hours jumping off buildings in medieval Jerusalem and fewer of them blowing away guys who look like my Dad.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_269/8044-Muslims-in-My-Monitor.3


Further to Othesemo's post, all the historical protagonists have names befitting their appearance - Altair and Ezio meaning 'eagle' in Arabic and Italian (or rather 'bird' and eagle, apparently), and Connor meaning 'hound' from the Gaelic root.

Altair and Ezio's appearance both resemble raptors, and their gameplay and environment reflect this (lookout points and rooftop running for example), while Connor is much closer to the ground, with apparently no high buildings in AC3, thus 'hound' being more accurate than eagle.

I wasn't referring to the hidden meanings in names like Ezio and Altair, i was referring to names that are basically verbing noun or adjective noun. Like the names of the indians in Peter Pan.


I'm going to have to agree with revolutionary france - it's the era which represented the triumph of enlightenment values. Plus I don't think many good games have been done on that era outside the RTS genre.

Being an RTS set in the era doesn't count, most RTS games just get new textures and that's it. I could take a stone age RTS and bring it into 41st millennium with a new paint job.

[MLai]

Is it stated anywhere that Altair is Muslim? ...he seems fairly non-religious, being an Assassin above all else (which is emphasised in that he freely kills Crusaders and Saracens), thus he's really a Palestinian/Syrian fighting everybody.
If the game was anywhere historically accurate to the facts of the Hashashiyyin, then Altair would be a Muslim, a Nizari Ismaili. Their devotion to their religious sect fueled their enthusiasm for their trade, and yes they killed Muslims too.

After reading on other forums, I'm now of the opinion that being in Revolutionary America ain't bad at all. Apparently, the AR is much more nuanced than what we learned in school, but most of us never get to experience that because we learned about the AR in school first, meaning when we were youngest and our texts were at their most dumbed-down.

However, the above is dependent on Ubisoft getting away from "America f*** yeah!" Which would not be easy. Not because the AC franchise devs can't do it, but because in this case it's a game about America being sold to America.

For example, I doubt we'll be assassinating any Founding Fathers, despite a number of them being Freemasons. It was much easier being nuanced back when you're writing about some place few idiots could get offended by.

[BRC]

I wasn't referring to the hidden meanings in names like Ezio and Altair, i was referring to names that are basically verbing noun or adjective noun. Like the names of the indians in Peter Pan.

I think those are probably translations of Native American names. In this case, Connor has his Mohawk Name: Ratonhaketon, and his English Name: Connor. As far as I can tell, this was actually fairly common practice. Last semester I took a class on Colonial America, and just off the top of my head I can remember a chief who was known as Metacom, but who the Colonists named "King Phillip".

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

The translation of native american names is a silly practice. I mean, I don't go around saying "Hey, Judge-of-God, wassup? Did you see Beloved today? Did you know him and Youthful are going out now? I KNOW, I heard this from Peaceful-Ruler!", I say "Hey Daniel, wassup? Did you see David today? Did you know him and Julie are going out now? I KNOW I heard this from Frederick!"

[Brother Oni]

However, the above is dependent on Ubisoft getting away from "America f*** yeah!" Which would not be easy. Not because the AC franchise devs can't do it, but because in this case it's a game about America being sold to America.

Given that Ubisoft is a French company and that the main branch of it that's developing AC is French Canadian, I don't think the "America [redacted] yeah!" attitude is going to be an issue.

I'm fully expecting some sly digs at the British though - they have to get their fun somewhere. :smalltongue:

[Thanatos 51-50]

The translation of native american names is a silly practice. I mean, I don't go around saying "Hey, Judge-of-God, wassup? Did you see Beloved today? Did you know him and Youthful are going out now? I KNOW, I heard this from Peaceful-Ruler!", I say "Hey Daniel, wassup? Did you see David today? Did you know him and Julie are going out now? I KNOW I heard this from Frederick!"

...
The funny part is, you heard a rumour about me from me.
It's delicious.

[Anteros]

I doubt that Ubisoft would let any of the writers include anything racist in an AC game. They are on very shaky ground writing a game where catholics are all villains and you are a muslim in the first game, but a general Europeon later on fighting just about everyone.


I don't know. After the "CHRISTIANS IS EBUL" ending to the 2nd game, I don't have a lot of faith in their writing team any more. Fighting a corrupt sect of a religion is something I can swallow. Implying that the entire existence of a religion is evil and needs to be opposed (which was implied heavily at the end of AC2) is not something that's exactly politically correct.



Given that Ubisoft is a French company and that the main branch of it that's developing AC is French Canadian, I don't think the "America [redacted] yeah!" attitude is going to be an issue.

I'm fully expecting some sly digs at the British though - they have to get their fun somewhere. :smalltongue:


So you're saying the series is going to culminate with an epic surrender? Also, if they're French Canadian, that explains why Altair avoids water so much. *rimshot*

[KoboldRevenge]

I don't know. After the "CHRISTIANS IS EBUL" ending to the 2nd game, I don't have a lot of faith in their writing team any more. Fighting a corrupt sect of a religion is something I can swallow. Implying that the entire existence of a religion is evil and needs to be opposed

I didn't think it was the church that was opposed, but the Templars who had infiltrated it. At the end of the game the leader of these templars stated that even though he was pope he did not believe in his own religion. The templars said religion caused too much bloodshed and social boundaries divided the human race, and wanted to rule people into their so called "Utopian"
world order.
But Ezio was still pretty devote and called the fake Pope out for this, and I believe didn't think religion was the problem, but humankind's own nature.

[Craft (Cheese)]

The translation of native american names is a silly practice. I mean, I don't go around saying "Hey, Judge-of-God, wassup? Did you see Beloved today? Did you know him and Youthful are going out now? I KNOW, I heard this from Peaceful-Ruler!", I say "Hey Daniel, wassup? Did you see David today? Did you know him and Julie are going out now? I KNOW I heard this from Frederick!"

It's because native-american names are just so awesome! For example, the last Eyak speaker's native name was Udach' Kuqax*a'a'ch which, according to Wikipedia, translates as "a sound that calls people from afar".

[BRC]

I don't know. After the "CHRISTIANS IS EBUL" ending to the 2nd game, I don't have a lot of faith in their writing team any more. Fighting a corrupt sect of a religion is something I can swallow. Implying that the entire existence of a religion is evil and needs to be opposed (which was implied heavily at the end of AC2) is not something that's exactly politically correct.

Wait, what?

I'm thinking back to the end of AC2 and trying to figure out how it condemns an entire religion.

The Templars MO is to subvert centralized power structures, and at the time the Church was the biggest power structure in Europe. The Church wasn't evil, Rodrigo Borgia was evil, and he happened to take over the church. Considering the settings and content of the games, Religion is barely mentioned. In AC1 the Crusaders are treated as just another invading army. In AC2 Rodrigo Borgia becoming Pope is treated like any other position of power (In a different setting, "Pope" could have been replaced with "President" or "King" and the story could have played out more or less the same). In Revelations, the Ottomans vs the Byzantines is just two groups, one supporting the old Empire, one supporting the New.

[Brother Oni]

Implying that the entire existence of a religion is evil and needs to be opposed (which was implied heavily at the end of AC2) is not something that's exactly politically correct.

As Kobold said, the Assassins weren't opposing the Church or religion, just Rodrigo Borgia and his fellow templars. The fact that he was the pope and large numbers of the templars occupied senior positions in the Church was just coincidental to it.

You should remember that back in those days, the Church was a major political player, using the threat of damnation as a major stick to beat its opponents into submission. More discussion of this is board prohibited however, but I didn't see any anti-religion message in AC2, unless you view the templars as a religious body.

In any case, Ezio seemed to retain his faith throughout it - doesn't he say "Requiescat in pace" to all those he kills in cut scenes?



So you're saying the series is going to culminate with an epic surrender? Also, if they're French Canadian, that explains why Altair avoids water so much. *rimshot*

While I'm not getting the French Canadian water aversion joke, you're putting words into my mouth regarding the epic surrender.

All I said is that I expect the French and French Canadian teams to poke some fun at the British.

[Anteros]

Wait, what?

I'm thinking back to the end of AC2 and trying to figure out how it condemns an entire religion.

The Templars MO is to subvert centralized power structures, and at the time the Church was the biggest power structure in Europe. The Church wasn't evil, Rodrigo Borgia was evil, and he happened to take over the church. Considering the settings and content of the games, Religion is barely mentioned. In AC1 the Crusaders are treated as just another invading army. In AC2 Rodrigo Borgia becoming Pope is treated like any other position of power (In a different setting, "Pope" could have been replaced with "President" or "King" and the story could have played out more or less the same). In Revelations, the Ottomans vs the Byzantines is just two groups, one supporting the old Empire, one supporting the New.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqWqNtrmblE

It's mainly the "guard against the cross" line. It could have just as easily been "guard against the Templars" and not designed to offend an entire religious base. As a Christian, I certainly didn't appreciate being told to guard myself against the most paramount symbol of my faith.

Even though it was most likely completely unintentional and meant to symbolize the Templars, it still rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously not to the point of rage-quitting or anything, but I certainly don't trust them with handling a sensitive issue like racism.

[Cespenar]

I personally thought too that the game never debased any religion in any sense. It was all about specific organizations and people, all wrapped up in a theme of religion. Difference is subtle, but solid.

[Anteros]

I personally thought too that the game never debased any religion in any sense. It was all about specific organizations and people, all wrapped up in a theme of religion. Difference is subtle, but solid.

I agreed with your assessment. Until the ending cut-scene. Like I said...I don't think it was intentional. Just poorly worded.

[Brother Oni]

It's mainly the "guard against the cross" line. It could have just as easily been "guard against the Templars" and not designed to offend an entire religious base. As a Christian, I certainly didn't appreciate being told to guard myself against the most paramount symbol of my faith.

The symbol of the templars was the cross (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Templars) and that is what Minerva was referring to, not the Christian cross.

If you notice, Minerva doesn't refer to Ezio or Desmond as Assassins or their opponents as Templars, since she doesn't know them by those names.
According to the AC wiki, the templars have always used the cross as their symbol thus why she uses that phrase, not an intentional slander against the newer Church which was founded after her death.

[KoboldRevenge]

Why did the Romans use the cross to crucify Jesus? Why it was given a sacred meaning afterwards I understand. But if it had one before it's use on the messiah I don't know.

Important Edit: But this is starting to go into a restricted area of discussion, regarding to Religious debates.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Why did the Romans use the cross to crucify Jesus? Why it was given a sacred meaning afterwards I understand. But if it had one before it's use on the messiah I don't know.

Important Edit: But this is starting to go into a restricted area of discussion, regarding to Religious debates.

Well, the actual form of crucifixes and gibbets varied. Crosses, tees, exes, simple straight-up gibbets. It was considered the most vulgar way to die. Least honourable. It was very public, and crucifixes would be set up along major roadways outside cities to make sure that people SAW what would happen to them if they became a pirate, or rebelled, or such-like.

[MLai]

It's because native-american names are just so awesome! For example, the last Eyak speaker's native name was Udach' Kuqax*a'a'ch which, according to Wikipedia, translates as "a sound that calls people from afar".
So his name is Farcry.
I heard his sister Portal has a nice sense of humor.