OOTS #846 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[lio45]

whoa! comic while I'm online!

[Bitzeralisis]

Saw the comic post from Twitter. It feels cool to be one of the first people to read this! (I haven't actually read it yet.)

[Forikroder]

we should have a moment of silence for the dead adventurer, so try not to jingle any of his valuables as you remove them

whats with the state of his clothes? they seem pretty ragard and torn i would have thought the clan would ahve put him in a more luxurious coffin with padding and stuff

im probably overthinking it but looking at taht hole on the left side of his skill (could possible be a ear hole i guess...?) and the state of his right arm (where the clothes are broken almsot look like the bone broke) im starting to suspect foul play

[The Last Baron]

Maybe the Speak with Dead-corpse's answer will turn out to actually be a bit more accurate?

[Madara]

Nice strip, good progression. It makes me feel satisfied, and amused because I don't find it hard to believe Roy would take it literally.

[Whiffet]

Wahh! An update while I was going through the archives! Awesome!

So much for the Girard-is-the-statue theory. :smallfrown:

[AlfredAmeoba]

Drat. My money was on the idea that he turned himself into a statue so he could be raised later.

I hope the order brought some good spells for defending a location. Or finding an elf. This could get ugly if someone shows up soon.

[FatJose]

Gasp-O!

Also, hee hee hee...assbone.

[El_Chupacabra]

Maybe the Speak with Dead-corpse's answer will turn out to actually be a bit more accurate?

Probably not, since the spell only pulls from the memories of the corpse. Familicide happened long after his death so the corpse would have no "memory" of it.

However, I do find it odd that the crypt could be opened as a "secret" panel. Usually, bodies are interred in sealed crypts, so I suspect something of value would be here. Unless it's a deliberate red herring, which I wouldn't really see the value for inasmuch as you'd only waste someone's time for perhaps another 5-20 minutes.

[TheCountAlucard]

After last time, I was worried that the title was gonna be another dirty joke. :smalltongue:

[Lycan 01]

Oooooh, interesting twist. I honestly expected him to still be alive.

Still, I love the punchline. Silent panel, and then deadpan horror. Priceless. XD

[AlfredAmeoba]

Probably not, since the spell only pulls from the memories of the corpse. Familicide happened long after his death so the corpse would have no "memory" of it.

However, I do find it odd that the crypt could be opened as a "secret" panel. Usually, bodies are interred in sealed crypts, so I suspect something of value would be here. Unless it's a deliberate red herring, which I wouldn't really see the value for inasmuch as you'd only waste someone's time for perhaps another 5-20 minutes.

5-20 minutes later, every trap in the complex goes off at once.

[Thokk_Smash]

I was amused to see that Roy made Haley check the statue's crack; good to know his paranoia has reached that level. Also, I was eager to see how powerful Girard was, but I guess not.

[Argok]

I like the fact he has a hole in his head for a nose. Though I was hoping the tattoo would have been down to the bone. I don't really know why though.

[Forikroder]

Probably not, since the spell only pulls from the memories of the corpse. Familicide happened long after his death so the corpse would have no "memory" of it.

However, I do find it odd that the crypt could be opened as a "secret" panel. Usually, bodies are interred in sealed crypts, so I suspect something of value would be here. Unless it's a deliberate red herring, which I wouldn't really see the value for inasmuch as you'd only waste someone's time for perhaps another 5-20 minutes.

the tomb itself seems pretty low key, looks like Girard was pretty uncerimoniously dumped in with only a couple blankets, either the clan is very unceremoniously about dead bodies or for some reason they couldnt do much elaborate preparation

[Syklone]

You know it, Haley.

[RNGgod]

Like 842, this was one of those "why all crazy SMALL fan theories are wrong, explained" comics.

Yes, I know we predicted the Familicide one, but remember all the "why the bodies aren't that old," "why Belkar didn't smell them," theories? And Rich covered them all in 842?

Well 846 does that for all the gag theories that 844 and 845 brought us.

[Blue Bandit]

So I guess V is off the hook for killing Draketooth?

Also, he-he-assbone:smalltongue:

[Agnostik]

Well, my crazy theory that Girard died peacefully of old age long ago seems to be proven. :smalltongue:

[Wolfram]

The ass bone connects to the back bone..

[maxon]

Poor Haley.

[t209]

What if The rift (or the keys to the room of Rift) is embedded in his butt bone?
Just last night, I dreamnt that Draketooths had a restaurant with dead people inside. Unlike Dried up draketooths, the people's head was smashed and stabbed. When I go to the forum, the new comic revealed that Draketooths murdered them to get their golds. I know it was a dream but it was kinda creepy one to see Draketooths (nonexistent) extremism.
P.S- COmpliment to RIch on ability to drawn non stick figure skeleton with pant legs (Other than fantasy fantasy).

[El_Chupacabra]

5-20 minutes later, every trap in the complex goes off at once.

Good point. I expect that would depend on how deep this statue was in the complex. It didn't seem that deep, so I'd think traps would have already been triggered, but it could be an "Indiana Jones" thing where the rule for the trap is, "if someone is messing with this button, assume entire site has been compromised and nuke site from orbit" or similar. Just have to convince entire family that statue is never to be touched, and any information given under duress (torture, speak with dead, etc) is designed to convince outsiders to start searching the statue.

[Anarion]

Anybody notice in that tomb, to the left of the pillow there's a white speck there? I thought it might be a tooth, but it's not the same color as the rest of Girard's teeth or any of his bones. And his tomb was hidden under that statue. I mean, I guess it could be nothing, but I'm just wondering what that white speck might be next to Girard's head. Ioun stone? Message of some kind? Random art mistake?

[lonely_cubone]

I'm glad to see that Roy looked at that as literally as basically the entire forum did :smallyuk:

[Wayac]

So... Where's Elan? Hopefully he didn't find another trap :smalleek:

[t209]

How about beneath the bottom of the coffin where his booty lies?

[3WhiteFox3]

That last panel was absolutely hilarious... No bone unturned indeed.

[Pokonic]

Well, that will shut up a few rumers, at the least.:smallamused:

[Clertar]

xDDDDD Nice strip!

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Assbone? Haley would be better off checking Girard's skull. That hole on the side of his head looks interesting.

There may be another layer to this. Sort of like Patrick's Box...

[Forikroder]

Anybody notice in that tomb, to the left of the pillow there's a white speck there? I thought it might be a tooth, but it's not the same color as the rest of Girard's teeth or any of his bones. And his tomb was hidden under that statue. I mean, I guess it could be nothing, but I'm just wondering what that white speck might be next to Girard's head. Ioun stone? Message of some kind? Random art mistake?

theres a couple odd things about the skeleton

i wonder if there was a coup and they killed Girard so they could do something with the gate

the irony alone would be suffocating

and it would make sense why they refused to be rezzed by a LG cleric becuase theyd think it was one of Girards allys trying to get info from them

[AlfredAmeoba]

The body must have been shifted when the tomb opened. That doesn't look like a way you would put your holy father/leader to rest. Also, spider webs? Were they buried in there with him? Pour guys.

[Smolder]

I love it when the comic makes me laugh at myself. I had almost convinced myself it could be there... Now I have to laugh at that.

:roy: Duly noted. Keep looking.

[The Pilgrim]

Time to proceed to the Dungeon. I suppose that Pyramid was set up there for some reason.

[Euodiachloris]

At least somebody has noticed V's still not around. Thank you, Mr Scruffy! Uh... do the precise means count as animal abilities? Or just sicker than having to search the desiccated remains of a corpse? :smallamused:

[Zolthux]

Poor Haley.


seriously, poor Haley

[MonkeyBusiness]

"Dry, crumbly assbone" reminds me of one of my professors! :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the laugh!

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a crazy theory about this yet, but why does Girard's skeleton look different from literally every human skeleton (Xykon, the Xykon decoys, Shojo's best wizard post-Roc, Hinjo while subject to Disintegrate, bone golem Roy) we've seen in the comic? The discoloration's to be expected from the environment, but his bones are thicker than most characters' arms and legs. Is being a quarter-dragon enough to account for it, are we on the verge of an art upgrade, or is something else going on here?

[KoboldRevenge]

Ha!

This job doesn't pay enough to do this. But really great comic Giant!

[thepsyker]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a crazy theory about this yet, but why does Girard's skeleton look different from literally every human skeleton (Xykon, the Xykon decoys, Shojo's best wizard post-Roc, Hinjo while subject to Disintegrate, bone golem Roy) we've seen in the comic? The discoloration's to be expected from the environment, but his bones are thicker than most characters' arms and legs. Is being a quarter-dragon enough to account for it, are we on the verge of an art upgrade, or is something else going on here?
Probably just that it is not animated like Xykon/the Xykon decoys, inside a body like Hinjo's and is older than the wizards.

[Forikroder]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a crazy theory about this yet, but why does Girard's skeleton look different from literally every human skeleton (Xykon, the Xykon decoys, Shojo's best wizard post-Roc, Hinjo while subject to Disintegrate, bone golem Roy) we've seen in the comic? The discoloration's to be expected from the environment, but his bones are thicker than most characters' arms and legs. Is being a quarter-dragon enough to account for it, are we on the verge of an art upgrade, or is something else going on here?

i think theres definently been some foul play and using a stick figure jsut wouldnt be able to show the details needed since he was shown to ahve completely normal legs and arms and i doubt wed see such a massive art upgrade and keep themw ith only 3 fingers

[Euodiachloris]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a crazy theory about this yet, but why does Girard's skeleton look different from literally every human skeleton (Xykon, the Xykon decoys, Shojo's best wizard post-Roc, Hinjo while subject to Disintegrate, bone golem Roy) we've seen in the comic? The discoloration's to be expected from the environment, but his bones are thicker than most characters' arms and legs. Is being a quarter-dragon enough to account for it, are we on the verge of an art upgrade, or is something else going on here?

I read it as what happens when you get a partially desiccated corpse/ mummy that does suffer a degree of decay and deterioration over time. Durkon estimates 20 years. That's enough time to make it very dry and beyond brittle.

[theNater]

Well, now I know what I want my epitaph to say.

[Forikroder]

Well, now I know what I want my epitaph to say.

please dont search my crumbly assbone?

[Gift Jeraff]

Wow, F3'ing the first page tells me that no one's said the skeleton is an illusion? I'm disappointed in you guys.

And the OOTS needs to find out where Girard, Julio, and the fantasy fantasy league guys got these snazzy thick clothes.

[Mutant Sheep]

Yikes. Damned illusion crypt. Stop tricking the paranoid rogue already.:smallwink:

[Voidfaith]

Seeing the word "Bone" in the comic title mad me think: "Dammit! Xykon already arrived?!"

[theNater]

please dont search my crumbly assbone?
I was thinking more along the lines of "he may have been a spiteful curmudgeon, but he was still doing the world a great service."

But now that you mention it, a little postscript may be warranted.

[jere7my]

Anybody notice in that tomb, to the left of the pillow there's a white speck there? I thought it might be a tooth, but it's not the same color as the rest of Girard's teeth or any of his bones. And his tomb was hidden under that statue. I mean, I guess it could be nothing, but I'm just wondering what that white speck might be next to Girard's head. Ioun stone? Message of some kind? Random art mistake?

Yep, I saw that as well. Looks deliberate, since there's nothing else in the sarcophagus but bones, clothes, bedding, and cobwebs. Looks like a coin or a gemstone to me. Possibly another triggered illusion?

Looks like Girard wore the light-blue-on-top, dark-blue-on-bottom semi-uniform we've seen on most of the Draketeeth.

[Forikroder]

Wow, F3'ing the first page tells me that no one's said the skeleton is an illusion? I'm disappointed in you guys.

And the OOTS needs to find out where Girard, Julio, and the fantasy fantasy league guys got these snazzy thick clothes.

if it is an illusion then why? theres no benefit for anyone to put illusionary bones in a real crypt and put a hidden switch to reveal it would be better to have the lid jsut easily be slidable, its likely any enemy wouldnt waste time searching the statue at the most theyd jsut blast it to make sure the rift isnt inside or use a stone shape spell

[SpaceBadger]

Thanks, Giant!

Hmm, the positioning of Girard's skeleton looks kind of odd. Not laid out neatly with arms at sides or folded as in most coffin burials - although in a crypt that size they had more room, maybe laid out the body in more "comfortable" position?

[Otter]

I'm stuck on why he isn't asking the corpse yes/no questions..."Is the rift in this building" sort of thing. Wouldn't get precise, but could narrow it down.
Literary license? As in, it's just not funny that way?

[lothos]

That last panel was absolutely hilarious... No bone unturned indeed.

Regarding the title of the comic -
I didn't know rouges could turn skeletons, I thought only clerics could do that.

[ti'esar]

While I wouldn't use the term "hilarious", this definitely made me smile. Roy's paranoia is finally starting to reach fitting levels for a D&D adventurer.

Girard's skeleton does look different from most we've seen, but I think that may largely be an art upgrade. Certainly panel 7 was a fine piece of work.

Edit: Also, anyone else feel that Roy's impromptu epitaph was partially meant for some of the more rapid Girard-demonizers on here?

[oppyu]

I was thinking more along the lines of "he may have been a spiteful curmudgeon, but he was still doing the world a great service."

But now that you mention it, a little postscript may be warranted.
Well, my epitaph is going to read 'Please don't search my crumbly assbone.' Or 'My coffin is lying above buried treasure.'

[Forikroder]

I'm stuck on why he isn't asking the corpse yes/no questions..."Is the rift in this building" sort of thing. Wouldn't get precise, but could narrow it down.
Literary license? As in, it's just not funny that way?

it could be jsut as easily twisted and he cant force the corpse to answer in a yes or no fasion he can only ask a question and wait for the answer

[FlawedParadigm]

Obviously the skeleton is an illusion; look at that weird hole above its mouth, between the eyes - no real skeleton would have that in this comic...unless Girard were the only man in the stick world born nosed. Maybe that's why he took two levels of Ranger...

[ObeyMyBrain]

Well, if that is Girard then it puts to rest the possibility that familycide needed living descendents in order to propagate. ie. if the son was already dead than the grandson would survive.

[ti'esar]

Obviously the skeleton is an illusion; look at that weird hole above its mouth, between the eyes - no real skeleton would have that in this comic...unless Girard were the only man in the stick world born nosed. Maybe that's why he took two levels of Ranger...

Xykon and every other skeleton we've seen also have nose holes. Maybe it just shows up after you die.

[Forikroder]

Xykon and every other skeleton we've seen also have nose holes. Maybe it just shows up after you die.

im curious about that hole in the side of its head that other skeletons dont ahve

[t209]

Obviously the skeleton is an illusion; look at that weird hole above its mouth, between the eyes - no real skeleton would have that in this comic...unless Girard were the only man in the stick world born nosed. Maybe that's why he took two levels of Ranger...

either this or it was broken from ages.

[ackmeow]

I dunno. Beneath Girard's own feet could mean further down and I don't know about you but they haven't explored beneath the zigguraut yet. It would be like a master of illusions to allay thieves and enemies by depositing a dummy corpse and have the real tomb below the statue and the zigguraut. Much further down.

EDIT: and is it just me, or is what the corpse said about the gate a little... Past tense?

"It -lay- between blah blah"

Maybe he moved it. I wouldn't put it past them.

[Gift Jeraff]

Obviously the skeleton is an illusion; look at that weird hole above its mouth, between the eyes - no real skeleton would have that in this comic...unless Girard were the only man in the stick world born nosed. Maybe that's why he took two levels of Ranger...So Xykon, Roy, Miko (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0201.html), Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html), Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html), O-Chul (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0655.html), and this hobgoblin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html) don't have real skeletons? :smalltongue:

[doodthedud]

Totally called it on the memorial statue being a tomb.

[CelestialMagpie]

Given that everyone is dead - I really want the OOTS to panic a bit more. Things aren't as they should be! I'd be a little more rushed, especially since they're worried about the bad guys showing up :smallconfused: But it's nice to see brevity too I suppose.

[Forikroder]

I dunno. Beneath Girard's own feet could mean further down and I don't know about you but they haven't explored beneath the zigguraut yet. It would be like a master of illusions to allay thieves and enemies by depositing a dummy corpse and have the real tomb below the statue and the zigguraut. Much further down.

EDIT: and is it just me, or is what the corpse said about the gate a little... Past tense?

"It -lay- between blah blah"

Maybe he moved it. I wouldn't put it past them.

but ehres the thing

if girard moved it then the corpse would ahve said the new position not say where it used to be, the corpse cant lie it has to say where the gate is

and if Girard moved it and told noone where to then the corpse woulkd ahve been unable to answer

so its obviously jsuta joke referring to girards "rift" not the actual rift

[Halleflux]

If you look closely at what he is on, it looks like a bed--pillow, and mat.

Looks like he was sealed in there by his own, though.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

If you put in a latch to open his crypt, then it was meant to be opened in some circumstance.

[Wolfram]

Poor Haley.

You'd prefer she do proctological searches on a corpse with flesh on it?

[CoffeeIncluded]

And there went that possibility. Rest in peace, Girard.

[DaOldeWolf]

If it is actually the case and it is between where his buttcheeks used to be....then how did he manage to hide it there?

There could always be other statues or maybe there is another guy named Girard where the gate could be....

[Deremir]

anyone notice the toom looks like it is a foot below the floor??? plus the statue swung 180 degrees shoudnt the statue have hit the ground???

AM I THE FIRST PERSON TO NOTICE THIS:smalleek:

CRUMBLING ASS BONE :smallbiggrin:

[Debatra]

but ehres the thing

if girard moved it then the corpse would ahve said the new position not say where it used to be, the corpse cant lie it has to say where the gate is

and if Girard moved it and told noone where to then the corpse woulkd ahve been unable to answer

so its obviously jsuta joke referring to girards "rift" not the actual rift

Plus, the gates can't actually be moved.

[jere7my]

EDIT: and is it just me, or is what the corpse said about the gate a little... Past tense?

"It -lay- between blah blah"

Maybe he moved it. I wouldn't put it past them.

Girard no longer has a rift between his buttocks, because he no longer has buttocks. He is a skellikin. Hence the past tense.

[t209]

Girard no longer has a rift between his buttocks, because he no longer has buttocks. He is a skellikin. Hence the past tense.

Maybe it is laid upon the door to the rift room under his buttock (and the door knob is between the butt).

[Morgan Wick]

Nice to see Rich address two points of interest: Roy has Haley search the statue's butt the way many forumites wanted him to, and Girard turns out to be long dead, much as we thought he would be before the characters started speaking of him as though he might be alive.

[Stabbey]

Well, I'm glad to see Roy not taking chances and dismissing the thing as just a butt joke. It's not like they have anything to lose by checking.

[Forikroder]

Well, I'm glad to see Roy not taking chances and dismissing the thing as just a butt joke. It's not like they have anything to lose by checking.

haleys dignity comes to mind :P

[squidbreath]

well done, completely hysterical to my immature brain.

On the other hand, Haley / Girard's statue would make a great pairing.

Is it possible to question Girard's corpse?

[FlawedParadigm]

So Xykon, Roy, Miko (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0201.html), Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html), Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html), O-Chul (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0655.html), and this hobgoblin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html) don't have real skeletons? :smalltongue:

*Facepalms.* They can teach you to detect evil, but not sarcasm? You didn't notice my post was suspiciously right after one mentioning they were surprised no one mentioned the skeleton might be an illusion on the first page? :smalltongue:

[Gift Jeraff]

*Facepalms.* They can teach you to detect evil, but not sarcasm? You didn't notice my post was suspiciously right after one mentioning they were surprised no one mentioned the skeleton might be an illusion on the first page? :smalltongue:I was the one who made that post, and yet I didn't make the connection. :smallredface:

[Cavenskull]

I was amused to see that Roy made Haley check the statue's crack; good to know his paranoia has reached that level.


Roy's paranoia is finally starting to reach fitting levels for a D&D adventurer.
Wanting to be absolutely thorough is not the same thing as being paranoid. Paranoia would be if Roy made Haley search Girard's dry, crumbly assbone for traps.


anyone notice the toom looks like it is a foot below the floor???
Nope. Look at Belkar. Not quite half his head is showing over the top of the tomb. If you extrapolate where the bottom of his head would be, then account for his body, the base of the tomb works out to be about floor level.

plus the statue swung 180 degrees shoudnt the statue have hit the ground???
If it swung 180 degrees, then yes. But that's not what happened. The top slide sideways. The straight movement lines even confirm it.


AM I THE FIRST PERSON TO NOTICE THIS:smalleek:
Well, the first person to misinterpret it, anyway. :smallwink:

[Whiffet]

On a completely unrelated note, I love Belkar peering into the crypt. It reminds me of the last group I tried to game with. :smallbiggrin: The DM loved pointing out that halflings are shorter than the humans just to make things interesting for the one player with a halfling (the player wasn't the type to care for such things as "how it would logically work"). In this situation, that DM would probably rule Belkar can't see into the crypt and make everyone roleplay picking up the halfling so he can see. In detail. And crack short jokes in the process.

[BungleBee]

Could it be his ear hole?

[Cavenskull]

Could it be his ear hole?

The dead hobgoblin in Strip 831 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html) has one, so probably yes.

[Fitzclowningham]

That is not the resting place of an epic character.

Also, Roy looks far from intelligent in this comic. Is the whole story going to hang on the fact that Roy never realized "Girard's Rift" isn't a proper designation? I realize Plot bends things, but Roy would really have to be stupid not to take advantage of Speak With Dead. Even if he had to camp out for D to prepare 3 for tomorrow and find out exactly the rift's location.

Edit: Also, artfail. The jawbone begins just under the ear, not at the bottom of the skull. Unless that hole means Girard was shot or something?

[EternalRuin]

Anybody notice in that tomb, to the left of the pillow there's a white speck there? I thought it might be a tooth, but it's not the same color as the rest of Girard's teeth or any of his bones. And his tomb was hidden under that statue. I mean, I guess it could be nothing, but I'm just wondering what that white speck might be next to Girard's head. Ioun stone? Message of some kind? Random art mistake?.

Maybe the circle is actually bone that came from that hole in the side of his head. Highly unlikely, but it makes me wonder what could do that. Maybe he got shot? (Or hit with some spell that blasted a neat hole or maybe got stabbed with an epee or something...)

[Herald Alberich]

Anybody notice in that tomb, to the left of the pillow there's a white speck there? I thought it might be a tooth, but it's not the same color as the rest of Girard's teeth or any of his bones. And his tomb was hidden under that statue. I mean, I guess it could be nothing, but I'm just wondering what that white speck might be next to Girard's head. Ioun stone? Message of some kind? Random art mistake?

It is the same color as his bones, or at least it appears so to me. Possibly a bit from the back of the skull, which is made up of several bones that could maybe have loosened in decay. Perhaps there was a minor earthquake or something that caused it to bounce over there.


Hmm, the positioning of Girard's skeleton looks kind of odd. Not laid out neatly with arms at sides or folded as in most coffin burials - although in a crypt that size they had more room, maybe laid out the body in more "comfortable" position?

His arms may have been laid at his sides to start with, but 20 years of decay will cause some shifting with the loss of all soft tissue. And then there's my earthquake idea above.


EDIT: and is it just me, or is what the corpse said about the gate a little... Past tense?

"It -lay- between blah blah"

Maybe he moved it. I wouldn't put it past them.

The corpse didn't say that about the gate, but about "Girard's rift" - I agree with Haley that the phrasing shouldn't have been taken literally; the corpse was simply referring to Girard's anus, which as we can clearly see, no longer exists.

Edit:

Also, Roy looks far from intelligent in this comic. Is the whole story going to hang on the fact that Roy never realized "Girard's Rift" isn't a proper designation? I realize Plot bends things, but Roy would really have to be stupid not to take advantage of Speak With Dead. Even if he had to camp out for D to prepare 3 for tomorrow and find out exactly the rift's location.

He likely does realize it (see panel 1), but he's being thorough and having Haley check anyway because he's out of better ideas. Even if they try Speak With Dead again tomorrow, they still have to keep looking in the meantime.

[Forikroder]

That is not the resting place of an epic character.

Also, Roy looks far from intelligent in this comic. Is the whole story going to hang on the fact that Roy never realized "Girard's Rift" isn't a proper designation? I realize Plot bends things, but Roy would really have to be stupid not to take advantage of Speak With Dead. Even if he had to camp out for D to prepare 3 for tomorrow and find out exactly the rift's location.

Edit: Also, artfail. The jawbone begins just under the ear, not at the bottom of the skull. Unless that hole means Girard was shot or something?

hes being chased by team evil and the linear guild who could apear at any moment, why would he do nothing for an entire day?

[Cavenskull]

...Also, artfail. The jawbone begins just under the ear, not at the bottom of the skull. Unless that hole means Girard was shot or something?
Good catch! Not only that, but there are solid black lines outlining major body parts. The arms and legs are way too thin, and they're missing proper elbow and knee joints. With all these misdrawn features, it's like Rich Burlew was drawing--I don't know--STICK FIGURES, instead of realistic human anatomy.

[rgrekejin]

...is this the first instance of actual pants we've seen in the comic to date?

[jere7my]

It is the same color as his bones, or at least it appears so to me.

It's quite a bit whiter than the bone, and not jagged.


The corpse didn't say that about the gate, but about "Girard's rift" - I agree with Haley that the phrasing shouldn't have been taken literally; the corpse was simply referring to Girard's anus, which as we can clearly see, no longer exists.

More likely his intergluteal cleft — that is, the crack of his ass — which is more rift-shaped than a sphincter.

[Forikroder]

i think some sort of foul play definently happened, according to the chart they treated Girard like some demi-god, at the very least hes worthy of a lot of respect, so why is he in some paupers tomb with ragged cloths? why didnt anyone preserve his body?

i find it hard to believe with all the wizards around none of them had spare spell slots to keep gentle repose up on Girard so they purposely let him rot combine that with the state and position his body is in and something doesnt add up

[t209]

What would V do if he got a sending from Hinjo about the Fall of Azure City Resistance (Hide the fall of resistance but tell about coming of team evil or tell both)?
P.S- I wonder how will Hinjo react to the fall of Resistance. I'm speculating one based on Augustus Caesar reaction to ambush to Teutoburgerwaltz where three roman legions were wiped out by germans in the forest.
"Thanh, Thanh. Give me back my resistance"
or "Elven Commander, Elven Commander. Give me back my resistance".

[Forikroder]

What would V do if he got a sending from Hinjo about the Fall of Azure City Resistance (Hide the fall of resistance but tell about coming of team evil or tell both)?
P.S- I wonder how will Hinjo react to the fall of Resistance. I'm speculating one based on Augustus Caesar reaction to ambush to Teutoburgerwaltz where three roman legions were wiped out by germans in the forest.
"Thanh, Thanh. Give me back my resistance"
or "Elven Commander, Elven Commander. Give me back my resistance".
its going to be a while before Niu can find someone who can do a sending, look how long it took Haley and Belkar to get anywhere

[MoonCat]

Best. Birthday. Gift. Ever.

[zimmerwald1915]

its going to be a while before Niu can find someone who can do a sending, look how long it took Haley and Belkar to get anywhere
Not to mention that, even if Hinjo sends to V, V would probably not care a whit about the fall of the Resistance. Celia of all people was more plot-relevant than the Resistance, and V dismissed her as irrelevant.


Best. Birthday. Gift. Ever.
Many happy returns of the day! :smallbiggrin:

[Forikroder]

Not to mention that, even if Hinjo sends to V, V would probably not care a whit about the fall of the Resistance. Celia of all people was more plot-relevant than the Resistance, and V dismissed her as irrelevant.

but he would understand the relevancy of Xykon having his Phylactery once again and might look at redcloaks actions and figure out the schism forming in team evil

[Loreni333]

You guys are all assuming that the thing between his butcheeks is his anus.

Think outside the box guys, you make crazy theories all the time! What else could Girard had used to keep within his but? Think!
Well, the rift of Azure City was inside a 'sapphire' on the leader's chair. Who knows?

[Draconian]

The final panel had me literally laughing out loud. (You know how hard it is when you can't help but laugh but also trying to keep your laugh quiet so you don't wake anyone?)

[zimmerwald1915]

but he would understand the relevancy of Xykon having his Phylactery once again
:vaarsuvius: My failure is now complete. *sob*


and might look at redcloaks actions and figure out the schism forming in team evil
Doubtful. All Niu knows is that Redcloak retrieved the phylactery. She doesn't know that he killed the only remaining witness to that seizure, and she especially doesn't know about the swap. Besides, V isn't allowed to solve problems.

[Forikroder]

:vaarsuvius: My failure is now complete. *sob*


Doubtful. All Niu knows is that Redcloak retrieved the phylactery. She doesn't know that he killed the only remaining witness to that seizure, and she especially doesn't know about the swap. Besides, V isn't allowed to solve problems.

V was the one who figured out that Girard had acomplaces, its unlikely but it is possible taht Nius story could hold some informationt that V might find, most likely not ill admit but it is possible

[Fanta]

There's a little round greyish "something" next to Girard's pillow, different from bones and dust in the tomb. May be something important later?

[faustin]

Poor Haley? Tsukiko would envy her now.

[Juggling Goth]

P.S- COmpliment to RIch on ability to drawn non stick figure skeleton with pant legs (Other than fantasy fantasy).

Yeah, that was an interesting art choice. The art seems to have been getting more adventurous recently, with the 'Implosion' panel and V's breakdown. We've been getting more detail/sense of movement for the panels that make us go "holy crap". It's neat.

[Winter]

Is this even Girard? This seems too be a bit too much "too obvious to be true".

The grave right at the entrance is the thing that has something to do with the gates? Wasn't Girard an Illusionist? You do not need magic to mislead people, the "real" illusion is to play with their assumptions and nudge them into the wrong direction so they miss what's really going on.

Putting a clue to what you seek right where people are going to look first would be the Worst Magic Trick Ever. If there's no (metaphorical) double floor here, I'd be surprised (it's no real double floor as that would be again right the obvious option and that is below any magician and way too easy to figure out).

This might not even be Girard's skeleton, to start with.

[factotum]

I don't think this is an art upgrade--it's just the normal art style wouldn't be able to show the dislocated bones of this corpse.

And yes, I'm pretty sure this is real. Why would you need an illusion of a corpse to put a double floor in the tomb? Might as well just use a real one so it fools True Seeing. The idea that the skeleton might not be Girard's has some possibilities, though...

[Quild]

I totally knew the statue wasn't Girard and seemed too big for being human sized! Yeah!

That hole in the head looks like Girard was trepanned. It's weird, but maybe it doesn't mean much :/.

[Cavenskull]

Is this even Girard? This seems too be a bit too much "too obvious to be true".

The grave right at the entrance is the thing that has something to do with the gates? Wasn't Girard an Illusionist? You do not need magic to mislead people, the "real" illusion is to play with their assumptions and nudge them into the wrong direction so they miss what's really going on.

Putting a clue to what you seek right where people are going to look first would be the Worst Magic Trick Ever. If there's no (metaphorical) double floor here, I'd be surprised (it's no real double floor as that would be again right the obvious option and that is below any magician and way too easy to figure out).

This might not even be Girard's skeleton, to start with.
There's always the possibility that the tomb is nothing more than a way to show that Girard is dead. It doesn't have to be some secret way to get at the gate. In fact, there's a reasonable chance that it is not. After all, Girard was alive to establish the defense of his gate. It would seem odd to make his own grave a secret entrance when he's not dead yet.

[Burner28]

Interesting!

[ShikomeKidoMi]

This is almost certainly wrong, since the corpse was probably telling a bad joke to frustrate the questioners, a habit so ingrained it worked even on pure physical memory, but if I was a paranoid adventurer I'd also be checking both Girard's mouths.

"Between his cheeks" has more than one meaning and the "beneath his feet" riddle turned out to be literally/technically accurate.

[Username_too_lo]

Really? No-one's thinking about the simplest solution?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html

:redcloak: "They're human skeletons. I put a robe on them and called it a night."

My money is on Girard being under Temporal Stasis with a conditional dispelling, which renders him immune to any spells or effects until dispelled, including Familicide (one supposes).

Edit: Wrong villain.

[RMS Oceanic]

If everything is as it seems - and I see no reason to doubt that - it feels odd that Xykon won't get to face off against Girard. After all, he faced off against the other Guardians. Also, how will Rich reveal Girard's motivations for his hatred towards Soon? This said, the whole expecting complex illusions and untrusting guardians being dramatically sidestepped has been a pretty good twist and sets up for the impending three way fight. I wonder when Niu's message will reach Hinjo and Hinjo's warning will reach Roy?

[fwddgs]

Umm... Not sure if this has been pointed out or not.
Remember after the big explosion at the fake gate site there was an identical scrying spell to the one Shojo used to identify the order?
Now that we know Girard and the entire clan was dead at the time, and that team evil didn't cast it, but that it was meant to inform OotScr that someone was there, doesn't that mean that Serini or a follower of hers is alive and guarding Kraagor's gate? And that now they're on guard for the epic level Lich?
So at the very least there's some hope for the next arc?

[RMS Oceanic]

Umm... Not sure if this has been pointed out or not.
Remember after the big explosion at the fake gate site there was an identical scrying spell to the one Shojo used to identify the order?
Now that we know Girard and the entire clan was dead at the time, and that team evil didn't cast it, but that it was meant to inform OotScr that someone was there, doesn't that mean that Serini or a follower of hers is alive and guarding Kraagor's gate? And that now they're on guard for the epic level Lich?
So at the very least there's some hope for the next arc?

I am 98% certain that scrying was Z'dritti, seeing how he shares a magical aura colour and Nale admitted he knew the Order were in the desert at that time.

[Dire Llama]

So ...
1) Old age? Now we need to find a druid to cast reincarnate? No, wait, dead too long.
2) Is the kobold now 'free'?

[RMS Oceanic]

So ...
1) Old age? Now we need to find a druid to cast reincarnate? No, wait, dead too long.
2) Is the kobold now 'free'?

1. Reincarnate cannot revive people who died of old age anyway, it just automatically gives you an adult body when you are revived regardless of your previous age.
2. No, V still has like 11 or 12 days left on the spell. It's just that without a conscious V to tell him to do anything he'll just stand there.

[Merellis]

For everyone talking about the hole in his skull, isn't that just his ear?

[DemonRoach]

Good catch! Not only that, but there are solid black lines outlining major body parts. The arms and legs are way too thin, and they're missing proper elbow and knee joints. With all these misdrawn features, it's like Rich Burlew was drawing--I don't know--STICK FIGURES, instead of realistic human anatomy.

Shoosh you! We're keeping that a secret! :smallbiggrin:

[fwddgs]

I am 98% certain that scrying was Z'dritti, seeing how he shares a magical aura colour and Nale admitted he knew the Order were in the desert at that time.

Ah, I stand corrected. Thank you!

[Caivs]

I have the feeling Girard definitely isn't out of the plot yet. I don't think it will simply turn out as a three-way (shush Sabine) brawl at the gate with Tarquin and Xykon. It'd be too simple, even though there are already quite a lot of twists in playé

I'm pretty sure when Roy wondered what happened between Girard and Soon, it was foreshadowing we'd learn more about it, so I think he'll play a role in what will happen, dead or not. Maybe his soul will talk to them or something, or they'll raise him. I mean, he shouldn't decline the offer so easily like his clanmates : he is an epic illusionist and has a lot of responsabilities. Plus since he's epic, he should fear less being raised by his foes than others, he could crush most right away.

[Gusion]

Obviously the skeleton is an illusion; look at that weird hole above its mouth, between the eyes - no real skeleton would have that in this comic...unless Girard were the only man in the stick world born nosed. Maybe that's why he took two levels of Ranger...

Or, you know, it could just be somebody else's body. Which would be a lot more probable and a hell of a lot easier than a permanent illusion that survives interaction... (it is about to get fondled, after all.)

[Themrys]

I strongly suspect that this skeleton is not Girard, but just some human skeleton they placed there.

The teeth are bad...yes. Would Girard have to accept the loss of his teeth? He was rich and powerful, shouldn't he, at least, have had gold teeth to replace the original ones?

Then there is the fact that he is a skeleton. When he was placed in that tomb right after his death, why is he a skeleton? There probably were no animals there to eat the dead flesh.

The spider webs could be a proof that there was at least one tiny hole through which insects could get there, but maybe the webs were just placed there to make it all look convincingly old.

Of course there is the option that they buried Girard first, and only placed him in that tomb when he had become a skeleton...


The only thing that doesn't fit in with the theory that this is not Girard is the relatively plain clothes. If they wanted to convince someone that this is Girard, wouldn't they have used silk robes or whatever?
But...maybe they were clever enough to know that others would think that...

[Juggling Goth]

I don't think this is an art upgrade--it's just the normal art style wouldn't be able to show the dislocated bones of this corpse.



Sorry, I didn't mean it was an overall art upgrade. Just that I thought it was neat how certain panels had a bit more detail, mostly for the 'holy crap pay attention to this' factor.

[martianmister]

anyone notice the toom looks like it is a foot below the floor??? plus the statue swung 180 degrees shoudnt the statue have hit the ground???

AM I THE FIRST PERSON TO NOTICE THIS:smalleek:

CRUMBLING ASS BONE :smallbiggrin:

No, it's opened up like a drawer.


You guys are all assuming that the thing between his butcheeks is his anus.

Think outside the box guys, you make crazy theories all the time! What else could Girard had used to keep within his but? Think!
Well, the rift of Azure City was inside a 'sapphire' on the leader's chair. Who knows?

A dildo? :smallconfused:

[factotum]

Then there is the fact that he is a skeleton. When he was placed in that tomb right after his death, why is he a skeleton? There probably were no animals there to eat the dead flesh.


The flesh could have rotted away. Sealed inside a box like that, he wouldn't have been exposed to the desiccating desert winds that mummified everyone else.

[Winter]

It's actually not an direct exposition to wind that mummifies bodies but dry climate.

Things exposed to wind rather tend to rot as they usually also tend to get wet from rain etc.

[Zolem]

Good point. I expect that would depend on how deep this statue was in the complex. It didn't seem that deep, so I'd think traps would have already been triggered, but it could be an "Indiana Jones" thing where the rule for the trap is, "if someone is messing with this button, assume entire site has been compromised and nuke site from orbit" or similar. Just have to convince entire family that statue is never to be touched, and any information given under duress (torture, speak with dead, etc) is designed to convince outsiders to start searching the statue.

Ah yes, plan "Boop this, blow it all up." Also called plan B.

[allenw]

I'm glad to see that Roy looked at that as literally as basically the entire forum did :smallyuk:

I rather suspect that Roy was so literal *because* the forum was so literal. :smallwink:

I agree that we're very likely to learn Girard's side of the story soon; however, that could easily be from more wall murals (or programmed illusions... perhaps provided to the imprisoned V, in a "before you die, Mr. Bond" expository lump).

[Sweet_Goddess]

What if The rift (or the keys to the room of Rift) is embedded in his butt bone?
Just last night, I dreamnt that Draketooths had a restaurant with dead people inside. Unlike Dried up draketooths, the people's head was smashed and stabbed. When I go to the forum, the new comic revealed that Draketooths murdered them to get their golds. I know it was a dream but it was kinda creepy one to see Draketooths (nonexistent) extremism.
P.S- COmpliment to RIch on ability to drawn non stick figure skeleton with pant legs (Other than fantasy fantasy).

So they're skeleton keys?

-----------------------------------

Side note:
Ear Holes seen are on non-humans... humans don't have ears and therefore no ear holes... however... Girard is not a full human... he is partly dragon... and while dragons don't have ears either, we don't know what else is in Girard's bloodlines, so Girard's hair could have covered his ears just like Dorukan's half-elf ears were frequently covered... so yes, that is most likely Girard's bones... unless one of his sons was Girard Jr.

As for the other dot, definitely a different color, and round... maybe a button... or a gem... or some magical stone of some sort.

[Dire Llama]

1. Reincarnate cannot revive people who died of old age anyway, it just automatically gives you an adult body when you are revived regardless of your previous age.

On reading the description properly you're right. I was sure that was the spell that had a loop hole for 'old age'.

[Forikroder]

the only way the corpse isnt Girards is if hes faked his death and put it there without anyone figuring out or else the corpse wouldnt have said thats where he is

[Cavenskull]

Really? No-one's thinking about the simplest solution?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html

:redcloak: "They're human skeletons. I put a robe on them and called it a night."

My money is on Girard being under Temporal Stasis with a conditional dispelling, which renders him immune to any spells or effects until dispelled, including Familicide (one supposes).

Edit: Wrong villain.
You really think that's the simplest solution? While I won't discount the possibility that it's not actually Girard's corpse, a faked death is still a less simple and less likely act than simply placing a beloved leader in a memorial tomb. Legitimate burials happen all the time. False burials are rare.

[Euodiachloris]

I read Roy's being rather literal about things as being an almost allergic reaction to Oracle-levels of exact-words vagueness. I couldn't begin to guess where he's aquired that case of hives from... Huh-uh, not at all. :smallwink:

[RMS Oceanic]

On reading the description properly you're right. I was sure that was the spell that had a loop hole for 'old age'.

The loophole is:

1. Upon reaching Venerable Age, kill yourself.
2. Have a trustworthy druid cast Reincarnate.
3. Receive a new adult-aged body and learn to deal with any new appendages you might have.
4. ???
5. Profit!

The downside to this scheme is there are some extraplanar beings who disapprove of mortals cheating death like this, so prepare for an unwelcome visit.

[t209]

So they're skeleton keys?


Maybe the booty itself is the key. What do you think of my dream, it is a dream but it is kinda creepy.

[stormtemplar]

The loophole is:

1. Upon reaching Venerable Age, kill yourself.
2. Have a trustworthy druid cast Reincarnate.
3. Receive a new adult-aged body and learn to deal with any new appendages you might have.
4. ???
5. Profit!

The downside to this scheme is there are some extraplanar beings who disapprove of mortals cheating death like this, so prepare for an unwelcome visit.
Heck, couldn't you do this until you got the body you want? Minus the first half of step one of course.

[Euqinom]

First time poster! Hey there everyone!

I read a couple of replies which said that the small white object next to Girard's head might be something of importance, but couldn't it just be his hair accessory thingy? It would explain its colour and its position.

[RMS Oceanic]

Heck, couldn't you do this until you got the body you want? Minus the first half of step one of course.

It costs you a level or two points of Constitution every time, and 1,000 GP in material components. You might not want to start all over again like that.

[Dire Llama]

It costs you a level or two points of Constitution every time, and 1,000 GP in material components. You might not want to start all over again like that.

If you're one of the main character races you should need at most eight tries do get back to where you started ...

[Jay R]

Besides, V isn't allowed to solve problems.

Solved the Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html)problem.

[LordVader]

Hmmmm; could it be possible that Girard deliberately had himself killed before dying of old age, so he could be raised to protect the Gate if necessary?

That'd both be rather dark, and a quite interesting plot point to boot.

[zimmerwald1915]

Solved the Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html)problem.
I question your use of the word "solved" to describe what V did there. :smallwink:

[Oakianus]

So Xykon, Roy, Miko (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0201.html), Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html), Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html), O-Chul (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0655.html), and this hobgoblin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html) don't have real skeletons? :smalltongue:

If nothing else, I now realize just how many characters' skeletons we've seen at this point in the strip. :P Quite an impressive list.

[t209]

Solved the Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html)problem.

What if it created an unintended problems for azurites?
I mean he could escape from trial with his word. But what if the nobles began to think that Hinjo had him assasinate and dyed his cloak to hide his fallen paladin status.
Anyway, Kubota is a smugsnake. He murdered a boatload of people needed for survival (probably four or three boat load) which also sapped the strength needed for Azure City Liberation.

[Forikroder]

Hmmmm; could it be possible that Girard deliberately had himself killed before dying of old age, so he could be raised to protect the Gate if necessary?

That'd both be rather dark, and a quite interesting plot point to boot.

if he was willing to go to such extremems im pretty sure he could have found a way to extend his life

[Oakianus]

The loophole is:

1. Upon reaching Venerable Age, kill yourself.
2. Have a trustworthy druid cast Reincarnate.
3. Receive a new adult-aged body and learn to deal with any new appendages you might have.
4. ???
5. Profit!

The downside to this scheme is there are some extraplanar beings who disapprove of mortals cheating death like this, so prepare for an unwelcome visit.

Yeah, drawing the ire of the Gods for cheating death is pretty Inevitable. :P

[Jay R]

I question your use of the word "solved" to describe what V did there. :smallwink:

Exactly how much problem has Kubota caused since that moment?

Or we can consult the historical documents. How is the word "solved" actually used by Vaarsuvius?

"As the size of the explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0696.html)"

"And that would be wrong."

Wrong, yes. But solved.

[Forikroder]

Yeah, drawing the ire of the Gods for cheating death is pretty Inevitable. :P

oh man at first i was going to say the guy wasnt talking about gods... then i read it mroe carefuly

well played sir, well played

[King of Nowhere]

here goes both the theories on girard being the statue, and the gate being inside the statue.
at least i was rigth that the statue was important in some way.

[Quild]

First time poster! Hey there everyone!

I read a couple of replies which said that the small white object next to Girard's head might be something of importance, but couldn't it just be his hair accessory thingy? It would explain its colour and its position.
Seems you're the only one whom noticed it, but you can hardly be wrong!



Side note:
Ear Holes seen are on non-humans... humans don't have ears and therefore no ear holes... however... Girard is not a full human... he is partly dragon... and while dragons don't have ears either, we don't know what else is in Girard's bloodlines, so Girard's hair could have covered his ears just like Dorukan's half-elf ears were frequently covered... so yes, that is most likely Girard's bones... unless one of his sons was Girard Jr.
Well, human have ears in real life and no hear hole.
And humans have ears in this webcomic, even if these ears are not drawn in stick art : http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html

I think that Girard was trepanned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning) for some reason.
Since Western continent's history seems based on Inca Empire, I think it matches.
Read more : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanation_in_Mesoamerica

[rgrekejin]

Yeah, drawing the ire of the Gods for cheating death is pretty Inevitable. :P

I see what you did there, and I love it.

[The MunchKING]

if it is an illusion then why? theres no benefit for anyone to put illusionary bones in a real crypt and put a hidden switch to reveal it would be better to have the lid jsut easily be slidable

The idea is to make you work for it abit would lead you to beleave that's really Gerard. Then you expect the Epic Illusionist to be dead, lower your guard and BOOM, he Epic Illusions your face off or something.

[The MunchKING]

Plus, the gates can't actually be moved.

It can if you get a big enough Ritual. :smalltongue:

[blackspeeker]

Judging by the state of the corpse I wold say girard didn't die of old age. I'll go so far to say that there was a secret coup to take him out for being to paranoid.

Or he killed himself and wanted to have one of his family members break him out in case of emergency.

[Mr. Pants]

:sigh: At least Girard will get to be with the rest of his family...

[Forikroder]

The idea is to make you work for it abit would lead you to beleave that's really Gerard. Then you expect the Epic Illusionist to be dead, lower your guard and BOOM, he Epic Illusions your face off or something.

then he would ahve had to trick his entire family becuase the corpse cant lie, as far it knows that is Girard

[oppyu]

Judging by the state of the corpse I wold say girard didn't die of old age. I'll go so far to say that there was a secret coup to take him out for being to paranoid.

Or he killed himself and wanted to have one of his family members break him out in case of emergency.

A secret coup to depose a leader for being too paranoid is delicious irony. Almost like a major figure in hedonist philosophy dying from an incurable, agonising disease. (RIP Epicurus)

[stsasser]

Skelliporn is just wrong. Cover your eyeholes, Xykon!

[Riverdance]

Well that answers the questions about Girard perhaps having survived the familicide. Unless of course, that wasn't his real corpse. :smallconfused:

[JackRackham]

Do we have solid evidence that this is, indeed, Girard? Think about it: no solid identifying marks, the word of an uncooperative corpse, the fact that there is, presumably, a lot of earth and likely even a fair amount of pyramid and under-pyramid further beneath that statue.

Also, if Rich is being consistent here, whoever that was did not die there. If he had, he'd be mummified and his clothes more or less intact - yes, they may have been in tatters when he died, unlikely as that seems if we assume it's Girard, but I doubt one pant leg would be entirely separated below the knee, yet still placed on him for some reason. The air is presumably no drier than it was at time of death and the tomb would have protected from critters (in addition to the illusions).

I'd say it's plausible that this was some other corpse, brought from outside.

[Forikroder]

the word of an uncooperative corpse

incorrect, the corpe is as cooperative as it gets, it can not tell a lie and has to answer any question posed as accurately as it can

just becuase it speaks in riddles doesnt change the fact it cannot lie for all that corpse knows, the bones are from Girard Draketooth

[t209]

Do you notice that Roy Greenhilt is like Conan (Howard version)?
- Unlike D&D Barbarians (who can't read), Conan can read and write a dozen languages and tactical knowledge.
- Both Conan and Roy likes women (Roy got stuck with Celia though).

[Tobimaro]

Belkar may get the best lines, but Haley gets to do the dirty work for the Order. Poor Haley.

[Cirin]

Obviously the skeleton is an illusion; look at that weird hole above its mouth, between the eyes - no real skeleton would have that in this comic...unless Girard were the only man in the stick world born nosed. Maybe that's why he took two levels of Ranger...

Xykon has one, he even references it when Roy confronts him with the line "it's no skin off my nasal cavity" instead of "no skin off my nose". You see Kubota's as V disintegrates him.

Art-wise they don't show noses, but they do show the nasal cavity in skeletons and skeletal undead.

[JackRackham]

incorrect, the corpe is as cooperative as it gets, it can not tell a lie and has to answer any question posed as accurately as it can

just becuase it speaks in riddles doesnt change the fact it cannot lie for all that corpse knows, the bones are from Girard Draketooth

It's as uncooperative as it's allowed to be, that's the exact opposite of "as cooperative as it gets."

[factotum]

If you're one of the main character races you should need at most eight tries do get back to where you started ...

The race you get turned into when you reincarnate is random, so there's no "at most" here--probability doesn't work that way. There's a 17% chance that you become something undesirable like a goblin or lizardfolk (27%, if you include half-orc in the undesirable list). The chances of hitting that 17% chance on every one of 8 rolls is very low (0.00007%, in fact), but it's still possible.

If by "get back to where you started" you mean "end up as the same race", the odds are really not good for that. If you start as human, you have an 85% chance of *not* coming back as one--after 8 tries, you still have a better than 1 in 4 chance of not having become a human on any one of those occasions!

[OPM]

Hilarious. I'm almost surprised that the statue didn't have a trap up there, though.

I wonder, however, what would happen if they took a different line of questioning? Say, for example, that they asked Girard's corpse something like "What's the best way to defend this gate if all the spell defenses are down?"

[oppyu]

Hilarious. I'm almost surprised that the statue didn't have a trap up there, though.

I wonder, however, what would happen if they took a different line of questioning? Say, for example, that they asked Girard's corpse something like "What's the best way to defend this gate if all the spell defenses are down?"
By killing any invaders.

[faustin]

Do you notice that Roy Greenhilt is like Conan (Howard version)?
- Unlike D&D Barbarians (who can't read), Conan can read and write a dozen languages and tactical knowledge.
- Both Conan and Roy likes women (Roy got stuck with Celia though).


:smalleek::smalleek:
Can you imagine Roy saying "....To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women"?
They are total different characters, from total different worlds.

[martianmister]

Do you notice that Tarquin is like Conan (Howard version)?
- Unlike D&D Barbarians (who can't read), Tarquin can read and write a dozen languages and tactical knowledge.
- Both Conan and Tarquin likes women...

...well, neither I...


I see what you did there, and I love it.

Please tell me.

[Kish]

Do you notice that Roy Greenhilt is like Conan (Howard version)?
- Unlike D&D Barbarians (who can't read), Conan can read and write a dozen languages and tactical knowledge.
- Both Conan and Roy likes women (Roy got stuck with Celia though).
I swear you're doing it on purpose.

"Did you notice Roy is like this completely different character from this other fictional medium? They both breathe air!"

[Sweet_Goddess]

Xykon has one, he even references it when Roy confronts him with the line "it's no skin off my nasal cavity" instead of "no skin off my nose". You see Kubota's as V disintegrates him.

Art-wise they don't show noses, but they do show the nasal cavity in skeletons and skeletal undead.

I counter your nasal cavity with What are these weird bumpy things between their eyes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html)

[Quild]

I counter your nasal cavity with What are these weird bumpy things between their eyes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html)

Rule of funny.

Also, look, the drawer can put his crayon on an ear that... he doesn't have?

[rewinn]

I question your use of the word "solved" to describe what V did there. :smallwink:

Disintegrate is the ultimate solvent! :smallwink:

[t209]

I swear you're doing it on purpose.

"Did you notice Roy is like this completely different character from this other fictional medium? They both breathe air!"

Uhhh....

http://www.giantitp.com/Images/GuestWeek2005/oots0302.gif
Nose joke here!
P.S- No, I just felt that Roy is like Howard version of conan (Smart warrior who like woman and complete contradiction to his class).

[Forikroder]

Please tell me.
Inevitables are a race of creatures that punish epople who try to cheat death to live forever as well as other trangressions

[rgrekejin]

Also, if Rich is being consistent here, whoever that was did not die there. If he had, he'd be mummified and his clothes more or less intact - yes, they may have been in tatters when he died, unlikely as that seems if we assume it's Girard, but I doubt one pant leg would be entirely separated below the knee, yet still placed on him for some reason. The air is presumably no drier than it was at time of death and the tomb would have protected from critters (in addition to the illusions).

Or, you know, he's been dead for twenty plus years instead of just several weeks. Lots of extra time to decay. Also, the body was in a sealed stone tomb, not sitting out in the open for the dry desert wind to act upon.

[DaggerPen]

Uhhh....

http://www.giantitp.com/Images/GuestWeek2005/oots0302.gif
Nose joke here!
P.S- No, I just felt that Roy is like Howard version of conan (Smart warrior who like woman and complete contradiction to his class).

"Smart warrior who likes women" is a pretty broad category. "Smart male warrior who likes women" is slightly narrower, but still applies to a heck of a lot of people. Sorry, I'm not seeing the connection.

[Kish]

Also, "complete contradiction to his class" appears to be using five words to say "smart" again.

So: "Roy, smart heterosexual male warrior, and Conan, smart heterosexual male warrior!" It's still almost as bad as the "air-breathers" thing.

[FujinAkari]

Also, "complete contradiction to his class" appears to be using five words to say "smart" again.

So: "Roy, smart heterosexual male warrior, and Conan, smart heterosexual male warrior!" It's still almost as bad as the "air-breathers" thing.

Would it help to point out that they both have eyes, use weapons, put their pants on one-leg-at-a-time, and eat food on a regular basis? :P

[rgrekejin]

Would it help to point out that they both have eyes, use weapons, put their pants on one-leg-at-a-time, and eat food on a regular basis? :P

Does Conan even wear pants?

[Themrys]

P.S- No, I just felt that Roy is like Howard version of conan (Smart warrior who like woman and complete contradiction to his class).

It is sad you consider "likes women" a distinguishing feature. Are there so many men, even nowadays, who hate women?

Or are you referring to the fact that they are both heterosexual...which is very uncommon, since, as we all know, most men are gay?

[JackRackham]

Or, you know, he's been dead for twenty plus years instead of just several weeks. Lots of extra time to decay. Also, the body was in a sealed stone tomb, not sitting out in the open for the dry desert wind to act upon.

Mummies can last thousands of years, even tens of thousands of years, and never turn into skeletons. It would take a change in climate or the introduction of some sort of corpse-eating bugs for him to begin to decay.

[martianmister]

Mummies can last thousands of years, even tens of thousands of years, and never turn into skeletons. It would take a change in climate or the introduction of some sort of corpse-eating bugs for him to begin to decay.

But he never be a mummy in first place.

[Forikroder]

Mummies can last thousands of years, even tens of thousands of years, and never turn into skeletons. It would take a change in climate or the introduction of some sort of corpse-eating bugs for him to begin to decay.

there are spider webs in his coffin and its possible that spot next to his head is a hole

also unlike his Kin, his body hasnt been invisible since his death

[brionl]

Does Conan even wear pants?

I think he prefers a kilt.

[t209]

It is sad you consider "likes women" a distinguishing feature. Are there so many men, even nowadays, who hate women?

Or are you referring to the fact that they are both heterosexual...which is very uncommon, since, as we all know, most men are gay?

No, "Like Women" as in womanizing behavior (though Roy is more well behaved).
Contradiction as in Conan can read and write many languages (like a scholar), tactical knowledge, and solve ancient riddles.
Roy has higher intelligence than any other fighters.

[Boogastreehouse]

No, "Like Women" as in womanizing behavior (though Roy is more well behaved).
Contradiction as in Conan can read and write many languages (like a scholar), tactical knowledge, and solve ancient riddles.
Roy has higher intelligence than any other fighters.

Conan had lots of women; lots of different women. Whenever he wanted to satisfy his lust, he could easily do so. He was a womanizer who took women and possessed them until he tired of them. He would love 'em and leave 'em without ever getting to know them most of the time. He didn't treat them poorly, but they were objects; prizes to seize and later discard. Sometimes he would actually become interested in (maybe even infatuated with) a strong woman, but it's hard to tell if he would get bored with them like all the others, because these women would eventually turn on him or get killed or something.

Roy is (in my opinion) clearly a monogamist. He is interested in maintaining a long-term relationship with one woman. A woman with whom he has a lot in common, and with whom he enjoys intellectual conversation and witty banter. He does not display "womanizing behavior," unless you want to count the one other time he shows interest in a girl; his crush on Miko, and I believe in that scenario he was also hoping to enter into a long-term monogamous relationship with her. Roy also lost any tendency to objectify women early on, after spending time as a woman.

Two characters who both like women, but they couldn't be more different when it comes to how they view and how they treat women.

Elan is clearly more of a womanizer than Roy. According to him, it's the bard's job to seduce women.

[CGforever!]

Did anyone else think it was funny that Durkon walks into the room dragging a corpse? Coulda just asked Roy to come back in to the cafeteria, but instead he just drags it out there by the head!

Also, I thought Belkar peering over the sarcophagus was cute. Like a little kid or a dog.

[Loreni333]

Does Conan even wear pants?

Aha! Neither Roy or Conan wear pants! Once again, we take advantage of the fact the art is stick figures!

[rgrekejin]

Mummies can last thousands of years, even tens of thousands of years, and never turn into skeletons. It would take a change in climate or the introduction of some sort of corpse-eating bugs for him to begin to decay.

Yeah, Girard probably wasn't mummified, though. The corpses in the dining room were naturally occurring pseudo-mummies (having never actually undergone a deliberate mummification process). The dry desert wind desiccated the corpses and preserved them. This only occurred because they were sitting in a ventilated room open to the environment. Girard's body was in a sealed stone tomb, so his decay process was more natural. Also, we see some spider webs in the coffin. It stands to reason that there might have been some insect activity.

[Wardog]

i think some sort of foul play definently happened, according to the chart they treated Girard like some demi-god, at the very least hes worthy of a lot of respect, so why is he in some paupers tomb with ragged cloths? why didnt anyone preserve his body?

i find it hard to believe with all the wizards around none of them had spare spell slots to keep gentle repose up on Girard so they purposely let him rot combine that with the state and position his body is in and something doesnt add up

Pauper's tomb? How many paupers get a stone sarcophagous with a statue of themselves on top, placed in pride-of-place in the pyramid home to his descendents?

And how do you know the clothes were ragged when they buried him? They've had 20 years to decay or be eaten by insects. And in any case - he was an adventurer. Maybe he wanted to be buried in his adventuring clothes rather than fancy robes.

Any why would he necessarily want his corpse to be preserved, magically or otherwise? Some cultures think you can't enter the afterlife without an intact corpse; others think you can't do so until it has completely decomposed (or been cremated). How do we know which tradition the Draketooths follow?

[Gift Jeraff]

i think some sort of foul play definently happened, according to the chart they treated Girard like some demi-god, at the very least hes worthy of a lot of respect, so why is he in some paupers tomb with ragged cloths?The mural made me think more of sainthood than demigodhood.

[MyNameIsSecret]

Did anyone else think it was funny that Durkon walks into the room dragging a corpse? Coulda just asked Roy to come back in to the cafeteria, but instead he just drags it out there by the head!

Yes, well, I think it was just a plot thing. It would be a bit tedious to have to watch Roy walk back into the room to ask the question, and then walk out again when Haley finds the tomb. Just tightens up the scene.


Also, I thought Belkar peering over the sarcophagus was cute. Like a little kid or a dog.

Heh, yeah, I only noticed that on my second reading.

[Forikroder]

Pauper's tomb? How many paupers get a stone sarcophagous with a statue of themselves on top, placed in pride-of-place in the pyramid home to his descendents?

And how do you know the clothes were ragged when they buried him? They've had 20 years to decay or be eaten by insects. And in any case - he was an adventurer. Maybe he wanted to be buried in his adventuring clothes rather than fancy robes.

Any why would he necessarily want his corpse to be preserved, magically or otherwise? Some cultures think you can't enter the afterlife without an intact corpse; others think you can't do so until it has completely decomposed (or been cremated). How do we know which tradition the Draketooths follow?
all he got was a couple ratty blankets and a stone tomb, would ahve taken a wizard like 10 seconds to make all that from magic

and what about his posture? it looks like he was jsut dropped in there, why isnt he in a more formal position like straight or with his arms crossed over his chest?

[Mr. Pants]

:smallyuk: His leg's also been smashed to pieces...

[FujinAkari]

all he got was a couple ratty blankets and a stone tomb, would ahve taken a wizard like 10 seconds to make all that from magic

And it would have vanished 2 minutes later... what's your point?


and what about his posture? it looks like he was jsut dropped in there, why isnt he in a more formal position like straight or with his arms crossed over his chest?

He's Chaotic, why would you expect a ton of pomp and circumstance?

[Forikroder]

And it would have vanished 2 minutes later... what's your point?



He's Chaotic, why would you expect a ton of pomp and circumstance?

im pretty sure stone shape doesnt have a limited duration

and if there revere this guy enough to draw a halo on him and give him such a prime burial spot, why didnt they put more effort then "well girards dead, lets toss him in the tomb"

[ti'esar]

im pretty sure stone shape doesnt have a limited duration

and if there revere this guy enough to draw a halo on him and give him such a prime burial spot, why didnt they put more effort then "well girards dead, lets toss him in the tomb"

Yeah. "He's chaotic" would make a lot more sense were it not for all the other signs the Draketooths revered him. Even if he was idolized only after his death, you'd think they'd have dug up the body and put it in a more dignified state.

[jere7my]

im pretty sure stone shape doesnt have a limited duration

Stone shape does not confer artistic ability.

[Bad Hair Day]

The OOTS could cast "Speak With Dead" on Girard, and their first question could be "Now that your Gate is completely undefended, what should we do?"

Once Girard knows that the Gate is undefended, could he go talk to one of his fellow family members up there and tell them to allow themselves to be resurrected and then he could answer the OOTS with "Resurrect the middle aged guy wearing red pants and a brown belt" or whatever?

This would be my first step if I were in the adventure party, at least...

BHD

[t209]

How many of you wanted to react (on the fall of Draketooths) like Augustus Caesar's reaction to loss of three legions in Germany?
"Vaarsuvius, give me back the Draketooth clan". (based on "Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions" quote from Augustus Caesar.)

[rgrekejin]

if there revere this guy enough to draw a halo on him and give him such a prime burial spot, why didnt they put more effort then "well girards dead, lets toss him in the tomb"

I'm not sure you can really infer very much from the orientation of the corpse, Maybe it was originally buried in a more dignified pose, but shifted as it decayed. Maybe insect activity slowly shifted the way the body lay over the years. Maybe the very act of opening the tomb caused the body to shift.

As for burying him in his adventurer clothes... why bury him in anything else? We don't know how ornate (or not) those clothes are. They're stick figures. We don't know what Girard's taste in clothes are. There are a multitude of perfectly normal explanations for the state of the body that don't involve stipulating any kind of foul play.

Furthermore, why are so many people assuming that they worshiped or revered Girard in some way? I mean, he has whatever that marking is on the family tree, but for all we know, that could simply indicate that Girard built the Ziggurat, or was the head of the family. There's a dedication plaque on the clinic I work in expressing gratitude to a wealthy donor. Doesn't mean I worship the guy. We have no real idea what that marking indicates. It's just a blank white circle behind a stick figure. Sure, it could be a halo. It could also just show where their branch of the family tree splits off from the rest. We have no way of knowing. Girard got a statue and a hero's tomb because he was a hero. An epic illusionist. Those don't exactly grow on trees. The family would surely have respected him and celebrated him and his accomplishments. But worship him? That's really a stretch.

Edit: Also, Bad Hair Day, I'm not certain that Speaks with Dead will even work on Girard. According to the spell description, the corpse needs to be mostly intact to be able to respond (which Girard's is not). Also, they get a will save, which I'm pretty sure Girard would make.

[ti'esar]

I at least don't think they literally worshiped him, if that's what you mean. But from what I've seen I am a little surprised at the relative lack of dignity he seems to have been buried with when compared to the halo/statue-type stuff.

[MyNameIsSecret]

But from what I've seen I am a little surprised at the relative lack of dignity he seems to have been buried with when compared to the halo/statue-type stuff.

I noticed this the first time I read the strip, but how undignified is it really? We don't how good his clothes are because they have probably rotted away, as with the blanket and the pillow. As for his posture, it doesn't seem that bad. As he rotted away, his head could have flopped to the side, his back arched, his bones moved. I don't really see how they could have made it much more dignified.


:smallyuk: His leg's also been smashed to pieces...

Whuh? :smallconfused: No it hasn't...

[factotum]

The OOTS could cast "Speak With Dead" on Girard, and their first question could be "Now that your Gate is completely undefended, what should we do?"

Once Girard knows that the Gate is undefended, could he go talk to one of his fellow family members up there and tell them to allow themselves to be resurrected

That isn't how Speak with Dead works. The spell gives you access to the memories a corpse had in life--it does not allow you to talk directly to the departed soul of the person. If it did, they could just use it to tell this guy that the Gate is undefended etc., no need to include Girard!

[Cavenskull]

That isn't how Speak with Dead works. The spell gives you access to the memories a corpse had in life--it does not allow you to talk directly to the departed soul of the person. If it did, they could just use it to tell this guy that the Gate is undefended etc., no need to include Girard!
Though I have to wonder, if the soul of the person isn't involved at all, why would it be considered rude? It makes me wonder if Rich deliberately altered its mechanics for the purposes of the comic.

[MyNameIsSecret]

Though I have to wonder, if the soul of the person isn't involved at all, why would it be considered rude? It makes me wonder if Rich deliberately altered its mechanics for the purposes of the comic.

The spell allows you to ask any question, and the corpse must answer truthfully - allowing you to find out about any secret, no matter how personal, that the person knows. (I don't know much about 3.5e DnD, but I believe that's how the spell works.) It's like browsing through someone's memories, and the corpse has no control over what you see - no privacy for them, with all their secrets laid bare. I expect that's why Durkon called it rude to use such a spell.

On the idea of Rich changing the mechanics of the spell... well, we know the story is flexible around DnD rules, but if it really worked like that, why haven't the OotS already tried to tell the Draketooths about the situation? Why bother asking the questions they've asked? Seems unlikely.

[Dire Llama]

The race you get turned into when you reincarnate is random, so there's no "at most" here--probability doesn't work that way.
[...]
If you start as human, you have an 85% chance of *not* coming back as one--after 8 tries, you still have a better than 1 in 4 chance of not having become a human on any one of those occasions!

You're right. Been away from Math for too long.
I make it 27.249% (or 6975757441/25600000000 which despite what two different spreadsheet programs say I don't think you can reduce any further.)


Conan had lots of women; lots of different women. [...]

Roy is (in my opinion) clearly a monogamist.

Conan: Chaotic, not necessarily Good.
Roy: Trying to be Lawful, probably Good.

[chainik]

Is the kobold now 'free'?



No, V still has like 11 or 12 days left on the spell. It's just that without a conscious V to tell him to do anything he'll just stand there.

Are you sure?

1. We haven't seen the kobold since V got knocked unconscious.
2. Strip #846 goes out of its way to mention that Belkar is looking for him.
3. He's obviously going to want revenge when he does get free.
4. He has a flying carpet.
5. No one in the order is expecting an attack at this point.

It really seems like we're being set up for something here.

[rgrekejin]

Are you sure?

1. We haven't seen the kobold since V got knocked unconscious.
2. Strip #846 goes out of its way to mention that Belkar is looking for him.
3. He's obviously going to want revenge when he does get free.
4. He has a flying carpet.
5. No one in the order is expecting an attack at this point.

It really seems like we're being set up for something here.

Belkar is looking for V, not the kobold. Presumably, he's pointing at the offscreen kobold in panel 2. And even if he did attack, he has no weapons. What exactly could he do to them?

[FujinAkari]

Are you sure?

1. We haven't seen the kobold since V got knocked unconscious.
2. Strip #846 goes out of its way to mention that Belkar is looking for him.
3. He's obviously going to want revenge when he does get free.
4. He has a flying carpet.
5. No one in the order is expecting an attack at this point.

It really seems like we're being set up for something here.

While it is possible Rich could choose for this to be an instance where he doesn't follow the rules verbatim, he did choose to Dominate Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm) the kobald, and so there is a LOT of time left on the spell.

[chainik]

Belkar is looking for V, not the kobold. Presumably, he's pointing at the offscreen kobold in panel 2. And even if he did attack, he has no weapons. What exactly could he do to them?

I assumed Belkar was just pointing at the cat, but you could be right.

And the last time we saw the kobold (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0843.html), he was still carrying his crossbow.

[rgrekejin]

I assumed Belkar was just pointing at the cat, but you could be right.

And the last time we saw the kobold (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0843.html), he was still carrying his crossbow.

Yeah, you're right, he does still have his crossbows. Still, there's no reason to believe V's spell has stopped working, and even if it did, what we've seen of the kobold in action so far suggests he's not a huge threat to anyone halfway competent (so, as long as he doesn't ambush Elan, we're probably cool).

[rbetieh]

Yeah, you're right, he does still have his crossbows. Still, there's no reason to believe V's spell has stopped working, and even if it did, what we've seen of the kobold in action so far suggests he's not a huge threat to anyone halfway competent (so, as long as he doesn't ambush Elan, we're probably cool).

I think there is a good reason to believe just that. Last we saw Belkar he was standing next to yukyuk. Belkar has no Spot/Listen, so a move silently roll is enough to get away....but that requires a command from an unconscious V or the release of the spell somehow. Maybe another spellcaster silent-spell dispelled the effect?

[Aun-shi]

Belkars cat will probably sniff v out altho v's concealed but then Bailey will probably stumble upon the switch

And girrads statue is probably just a huge headstone for this coffin
And the liniar team now configured to beat oots probably won't find their past the 1st illusion

Anyway the head Orc said spell dont controls the gate but just moves it somewhere else and will anyone who tries to reveal that secret so it's possible if team liniar who's something aboat it
They might be getting in each others way

When they do res girrad he's probably to old to much use
And 20 yrs is along time Even after ur dead

[rgrekejin]

I think there is a good reason to believe just that. Last we saw Belkar he was standing next to yukyuk. Belkar has no Spot/Listen, so a move silently roll is enough to get away....but that requires a command from an unconscious V or the release of the spell somehow. Maybe another spellcaster silent-spell dispelled the effect?

Again, I'm pretty sure that the offscreen kobold is what Belkar is pointing at in the second panel. He's looking for V, not Yukyuk. He knows where Yukyuk is. Presumably, if the kobold was missing, that would be the thing to tell Roy. We have no indication that Yukyuk has even moved from the spot he was standing. The spell description seems to suggest that the spell would continue even with V unconscious. Why in the world would we need to postulate another spellcaster silently dispelling the effect when there's not even any evident that the kobold has gone anywhere?

[Forikroder]

Belkars cat will probably sniff v out altho v's concealed but then Bailey will probably stumble upon the switch

And girrads statue is probably just a huge headstone for this coffin
And the liniar team now configured to beat oots probably won't find their past the 1st illusion

Anyway the head Orc said spell dont controls the gate but just moves it somewhere else and will anyone who tries to reveal that secret so it's possible if team liniar who's something aboat it
They might be getting in each others way

When they do res girrad he's probably to old to much use
And 20 yrs is along time Even after ur dead
your forgetting two things

1) i dont think Durkon is high enough level to ressurect someone whos been dead for 20+ years
2) the red carpet still has a homing beacon on it, Tarquin and co can follow its signal pretty easily

[zimmerwald1915]

1) i dont think Durkon is high enough level to ressurect someone whos been dead for 20+ years
Durkon is at least level 13 and possibly higher. He could Resurrect someone who's been dead for up to 130 years. Girard's time of death is not the hurdle Durkon would have to overcome to resurrect him: those hurdles would be Girard's paranoia and the possibility that he died of old age.

[Wybaar]

Assuming that Lord Shojo's description of Girard's clothing in strip 277 is accurate, the shirt and vest match, and the little white object about which the thread's been speculating is likely Girard's hair band.

It doesn't rule out the corpse being some trick but it also doesn't rule out the corpse actually being Girard. If it is a trick, I suspect what happened was that Girard killed an intruder, dressed him in Girard's clothing, cast an illusion over the corpse, and left everyone to believe that Girard had died. Since everyone believe that Girard was dead, and that the gate was in his tomb, that's what they would have told Roy and Durkon under the influence of Speak With Dead.

My guess is that V is going to meet up with Girard in his underground lair. After the obligatory mistaken magical duel, V will mention that they're there to defend the gate and Girard will head up to meet the rest of the Order.

[zimmerwald1915]

My guess is that V is going to meet up with Girard in his underground lair. After the obligatory mistaken magical duel, V will mention that they're there to defend the gate and Girard will head up to meet the rest of the Order.
Yeah...Girard meeting up with V yields a dead V in short order. V massacred his grandkids and great-grandkids. As an epic-level character, Girard's quite powerful enough to one-shot V by accident, and considering what V's done to the man who valued family above all else, that one-shot won't come by accident.

[oppyu]

Yeah...Girard meeting up with V yields a dead V in short order. V massacred his grandkids and great-grandkids. As an epic-level character, Girard's quite powerful enough to one-shot V by accident, and considering what V's done to the man who valued family above all else, that one-shot won't come by accident.
That's if V is dumb enough to be honest about it. Unless Familicide leaves a note saying 'this epic-level spell was cast by Vaarsuvius, true neutral elf of mid-to-high level, purple hair and ambiguous gender', there's no way for Girard to know it was hir.

[zimmerwald1915]

That's if V is dumb enough to be honest about it. Unless Familicide leaves a note saying 'this epic-level spell was cast by Vaarsuvius, true neutral elf of mid-to-high level, purple hair and ambiguous gender', there's no way for Girard to know it was hir.
Well, there's the matter of that whole scene with V sobbing out a full confession for anyone who was listening to hear. Just because the rest of the OOTS wasn't listening doesn't mean it went unheard. :smallwink:

[Cavenskull]

Again, I'm pretty sure that the offscreen kobold is what Belkar is pointing at in the second panel. He's looking for V, not Yukyuk. He knows where Yukyuk is. Presumably, if the kobold was missing, that would be the thing to tell Roy. We have no indication that Yukyuk has even moved from the spot he was standing. The spell description seems to suggest that the spell would continue even with V unconscious. Why in the world would we need to postulate another spellcaster silently dispelling the effect when there's not even any evident that the kobold has gone anywhere?
To add to this, Mr. Scruffy has been using Yukyuk as a taxi the whole time--even after booby-trap incident. If Belkar knows where Mr. Scruffy is, it's a safe bet he also knows where Yukyuk is.

[Forikroder]

Yeah...Girard meeting up with V yields a dead V in short order. V massacred his grandkids and great-grandkids. As an epic-level character, Girard's quite powerful enough to one-shot V by accident, and considering what V's done to the man who valued family above all else, that one-shot won't come by accident.

i think your forgetting Girards personality, if he meets ANYONE who doessnt have red hair and calls him granpappy hell kill them, doesnt matter what V saids Girard isnt gonna let hir go if he finds hir

only question is why did he fake his death to his entire clan in a convincing manner and survive familicide?

[t209]

What if both Team Evil and Linear Guild manage to fool themselves by thinking that the illusionless temple is illusioned? Sometimes you can fool people with their own paranoia.

[Flemkopf]

All the comments I've seen so far about Girard surviving seem to assume that he pulled a trick and that the corpse isn't his. What if it really is his corpse, but Girard used a Clone spell to make sure he survived any nasty encounters or assassinations. (The SRD implies that the original corpse is left intact, so no one would know that he survived.) Use a Flesh to Stone spell to preserve his clone once it's ready, and he's all set. Heck, since the spell only uses 1,000gp per clone and given the large amounts of gold coming into the Girard family coffers (strip #816, 4th panel) Girard could have made clones of his entire clan and had an underground room full of Flesh to Stoned clones.

[FujinAkari]

All the comments I've seen so far about Girard surviving seem to assume that he pulled a trick and that the corpse isn't his. What if it really is his corpse, but Girard used a Clone spell to make sure he survived any nasty encounters or assassinations. (The SRD implies that the original corpse is left intact, so no one would know that he survived.) Use a Flesh to Stone spell to preserve his clone once it's ready, and he's all set. Heck, since the spell only uses 1,000gp per clone and given the large amounts of gold coming into the Girard family coffers (strip #816, 4th panel) Girard could have made clones of his entire clan and had an underground room full of Flesh to Stoned clones.

That seems way too technical and rules-specific for OOTS. Remember, Rich doesn't write this for 3.5 SRD aficionados.

[Flemkopf]

That seems way too technical and rules-specific for OOTS. Remember, Rich doesn't write this for 3.5 SRD aficionados.

Hm, you're probably right. Rich did mention that he rarely refers to the system anymore, and this would be rather rule intensive compared to what he's written the past few years. It would probably have ruined a fair bit of the story and drama that Rich has been building, so yeah, I doubt he'd do that.

[zimmerwald1915]

Hm, you're probably right. Rich did mention that he rarely refers to the system anymore, and this would be rather rule intensive compared to what he's written the past few years. It would probably have ruined a fair bit of the story and drama that Rich has been building, so yeah, I doubt he'd do that.
That quote gets thrown around, and misinterpreted, a lot. What Rich doesn't do much anymore is make explicit, call-out, references to elements of the D&D 3.5E ruleset. He still uses that ruleset to build his world and determine characters' capabilities. Using the 3.5 ruleset to speculate on how Girard might have survived Familicide is perfectly okay. Expecting Rich to spell it out in the strip, however, is probably too much.

[martianmister]

Can you use a dominate person spell to a person who currently uses a dominate person spell and control them both? That's a good way for Belkar death: In the hands of Yukyuk and Vaarsuvius.

[sgtpimenta]

Are you sure?

1. We haven't seen the kobold since V got knocked unconscious.
2. Strip #846 goes out of its way to mention that Belkar is looking for him.
3. He's obviously going to want revenge when he does get free.
4. He has a flying carpet.
5. No one in the order is expecting an attack at this point.

It really seems like we're being set up for something here.

Maybe.
But in that strip you mention Belkar was not looking for the Kobold; he was looking for V, so she can get the kobold to open his mouth - which implies that the kobold is still where he was told to be, with his mouth shut.

I'm no expert in the 3.5 spells, but lots of people around here seems to believe that the domination will last for some days yet - even with the unconscious elf.

[sgtpimenta]

All the comments I've seen so far about Girard surviving seem to assume that he pulled a trick and that the corpse isn't his. What if it really is his corpse, but Girard used a Clone spell to make sure he survived any nasty encounters or assassinations. (The SRD implies that the original corpse is left intact, so no one would know that he survived.) Use a Flesh to Stone spell to preserve his clone once it's ready, and he's all set. Heck, since the spell only uses 1,000gp per clone and given the large amounts of gold coming into the Girard family coffers (strip #816, 4th panel) Girard could have made clones of his entire clan and had an underground room full of Flesh to Stoned clones.

Familicide would have killed the clones, too.
And that statue is WAY too-fraking-big to be one medium humanoid made to stone.

Maybe - just maybe - Girard died of old age years ago, and the V killed his whole clan. Just MHO.

[JSSheridan]

Assuming that Lord Shojo's description of Girard's clothing in strip 277 is accurate, the shirt and vest match, and the little white object about which the thread's been speculating is likely Girard's hair band.

It doesn't rule out the corpse being some trick but it also doesn't rule out the corpse actually being Girard. If it is a trick, I suspect what happened was that Girard killed an intruder, dressed him in Girard's clothing, cast an illusion over the corpse, and left everyone to believe that Girard had died. Since everyone believe that Girard was dead, and that the gate was in his tomb, that's what they would have told Roy and Durkon under the influence of Speak With Dead.

My guess is that V is going to meet up with Girard in his underground lair. After the obligatory mistaken magical duel, V will mention that they're there to defend the gate and Girard will head up to meet the rest of the Order.

That was one thing I noticed about the comic. Hair (and nails) decomposes very slowly. Sometimes it lasts longer than bones.

Also, in comic 694 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0694.html) his hair band is blue-ish.

[Forikroder]

That was one thing I noticed about the comic. Hair (and nails) decomposes very slowly. Sometimes it lasts longer than bones.

Also, in comic 694 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0694.html) his hair band is blue-ish.

and if it was his hair band whys it so far from the skull?

[t209]

That was one thing I noticed about the comic. Hair (and nails) decomposes very slowly. Sometimes it lasts longer than bones.

Also, in comic 694 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0694.html) his hair band is blue-ish.

Maybe he got bald when he got old.
If Draketooths lives, will they kill the Order on sight due to their paranoia and xenophobia.
I think the Order will get Niu's message (since the resistance fell at the same time when OOTS leaves from the palace). I think the story will end in world is saved, at a price of azure city (Also it will be happy ending for Elan).
Don't ever think about Resurrection of Resistance, either they're buried or eaten. Now the refugee will have to deal with the Clerics getting exterminated.

[SoC175]

Though I have to wonder, if the soul of the person isn't involved at all, why would it be considered rude? It makes me wonder if Rich deliberately altered its mechanics for the purposes of the comic.
If you look at the earlier mentions of that spell in the comic it seems that Rich did alter it to temporarily call back the soul

[Forikroder]

If you look at the earlier mentions of that spell in the comic it seems that Rich did alter it to temporarily call back the soul

if it did call back the soul Durkon wouldnt call it rude he would call it evil generally ripping a soul agaisnt its will from its paradise in order to force it to answer questions is a bit beyond the level of being rude

its rude becuase its like stealing someones diary you get to learn any secret they hold and the only defence they have is to speak cryptically, in fact the person your stealing the secrets from doesnt even have any way of knowing its happening to them

[FujinAkari]

That isn't how Speak with Dead works. The spell gives you access to the memories a corpse had in life--it does not allow you to talk directly to the departed soul of the person. If it did, they could just use it to tell this guy that the Gate is undefended etc., no need to include Girard!

OOTS doesn't work that way (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html)

[hamishspence]

That one is a bit odd. Wouldn't Roy have to return to his parents' graves and excavate them, before getting a cleric to cast the spell?

"Contact Other Plane" would have made more sense- but may not have been as funny.


if it did call back the soul Durkon wouldnt call it rude he would call it evil generally ripping a soul agaisnt its will from its paradise in order to force it to answer questions is a bit beyond the level of being rude

This strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html

follows the "spirit wrested from its rightful place" interpretation.

[term3186]

I'd chalk those strips down to Rule of Funny rather than a description of how the spell actually functions.

Furthermore, when Durkon and Roy discuss Speak wih Dead in #845, they discuss asking the body and the corpse questions - as if it is just a hunk of matter, not wresting a soul back from the afterlife.

[Euodiachloris]

WMG: That goblin's spirit was hanging around still due to being only freshly killed by some iffy arcane runic zapping thing above the Gate. It took a chance that this way, it would make it 'home' to the Dark One rather than sucked wherever the rune might zap it?

Yes, it's a very, very wild Wild Mass Guess... :smalltongue: It's practically a Wereguess.

[Forikroder]

That one is a bit odd. Wouldn't Roy have to return to his parents' graves and excavate them, before getting a cleric to cast the spell?

"Contact Other Plane" would have made more sense- but may not have been as funny.



This strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html

follows the "spirit wrested from its rightful place" interpretation.
the giant has said that the early strips were made before he actually realised that the comic was going to be along running hit and didnt actually think it would last this long so thats just the rule of funny

[ti'esar]

I'd agree that earlier uses of Speak with Dead calling back the soul can be attributed more to Rule of Funny then to any sort of OOTS "house rule".

[FujinAkari]

the giant has said that the early strips were made before he actually realised that the comic was going to be along running hit and didnt actually think it would last this long so thats just the rule of funny

While this is true, it is also irrelevant.

The early strips were written specifically for people familiar with the 3.5 ruleset, so expecting -less- adherence to the rules than you're arguing for today is completely backwards :P

Edit: We can also note that Comic #95 occured -after- Rich realized the comic's longevity and decided upon its long-term plot. Making your argument doubly-moot :P

[Forikroder]

While this is true, it is also irrelevant.

The early strips were written specifically for people familiar with the 3.5 ruleset, so expecting -less- adherence to the rules than you're arguing for today is completely backwards :P

Edit: We can also note that Comic #95 occured -after- Rich realized the comic's longevity and decided upon its long-term plot. Making your argument doubly-moot :P

no its not moot at all the early chapters are all about being funny, ive looked through the rule brook tons of times and i ahve yet to find
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html
anywhere

everything that happened in the dungeon of Dorukon cant really be used as a evidence for any argument pretty much

[ti'esar]

I think you're both missing the point. The question isn't whether the overall tenor of the comic was more humor- then story-based at that time. The question is whether those particular jokes worked better if Speak With Dead called back the soul.