Will Girard's arc end in book 5?

[Ninja Dragon]

Book 1 has 120 strips.
Book 2 has 180.
Book 3 has 184.
Book 4 has 188.

As of now, book 5 has 174 strips. Wich means that, if the number of strips is kept to the average, it should take 20 strips for it to end, at most.

I think this isn't enough for the current arc (the struggle for Girard's gate) to end. The OOTS hasn't even found the gate, and we know at least 3 sides are going to fight for it (the OOTS, the Linear Guild and Team Evil). I think it would take at least 50 strips for all of this to happen.

Or the other side, I don't think we have enough plot left for a book 6. That's like 200 more strips. The climax is about to start, and it's not like the main characters are going to leave Girard's gate before it gets destroyed. Also, we don't have giant armies to fight a war for dozens of strips.

So, what do you think? Will this book be longer than usual (having like, 220 strips)? Or will the Giant add some twist that will make this climax much shorter, or longer, than I expect?

[RMS Oceanic]

I think the book being over 200 strips is more likely than finishing it on a cliffhanger. Like books one and three, I am confident this book will end with Team Evil either abandoning their attempt to sieze Girard's gate or the question rendered moot by the gate's destruction.

Also, I believe in one of the Kickstarter interviews Rich said he had enough plot for at least two more books after this, so it will be interesting to see where he goes with the story after we leave the desert.

[Sunken Valley]

Also, I believe in one of the Kickstarter interviews Rich said he had enough plot for at least two more books after this, so it will be interesting to see where he goes with the story after we leave the desert.

Book 5= Ends with cliffhanger (Belkar's Death)

Book 6= Girards Gates destruction and Kraagor's gate (some teleportation will happen).

Book 7= extraplanar.

My two cents

[Porthos]

It's not total strips that really matter though. It's the number of pages. And with xtra long strips, those aren't the same.

Starting with NCftPB, the amount non-online content of each book contains has been within one page of each other. So let's just look at number of online "pages" there are so far (adjusting for various combinations of 1.5 long strips and whatnot):

DCF: 122.5
NCftPB: 197
WaXP: 242
DStP: 226
Book 5: 198.75 (so far)

So if we use WaXP as an upper bound, there's still "room" for 45 more pages or so before the size of the book rivals that behemoth. And, who knows, maybe the Kickstarter drive (or all of the people pestering him for it the last year :smalltongue:) the has given Rich more confidence that he can reliably sell a book at that price. Or it could simply be a tale that grew in the telling.

Wouldn't be the first time it had happened. :smalltongue:

[t209]

Don't forget Niu on the Run arc. I hope we get to see the prophet again even though she didn't have the dough.
Curse you, Redcloak. I hope Order will kill you for this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0825.html).

[Cranica]

I actually think Xykon or Tarquin may be partially successful with Girard's gate. Both previous struggles have ended in the gate's destruction, and it might lend a sense of tension if the race for the final gate is against someone whose control of one gate gives them an edge.

[RMS Oceanic]

I actually think Xykon or Tarquin may be partially successful with Girard's gate. Both previous struggles have ended in the gate's destruction, and it might lend a sense of tension if the race for the final gate is against someone whose control of one gate gives them an edge.

Xykon - to the best of his knowledge anyway - only needs one gate to fulfil his plans. Tarquin seizing the gate but lacking the resources to do anything with it might be more interesting, but I don't see how he could say no to a Maximized Meteor Swarm to the face.

[Cranica]

Xykon - to the best of his knowledge anyway - only needs one gate to fulfil his plans. Tarquin seizing the gate but lacking the resources to do anything with it might be more interesting, but I don't see how he could say no to a Maximized Meteor Swarm to the face.

Xykon's knowledge may easily be flawed. The Order's certainly is, and they're operating on information handed down from Soon, who presumably had the same info Serini had.

[Jubal_Barca]

Xykon's knowledge is TOTALLY WRONG. That's kinda the point of the whole Redcloak, dark one, goblins, The Plan shtick. But if he controlled a gate he'd find that out.

[Fenice]

Xykon - to the best of his knowledge anyway - only needs one gate to fulfil his plans.
Well, that does not need to be. What if Girard's gate has some sort of protection that doesn't allow Team Evil to use it, just like Dorukan's had? Girard was a wizard as well and we still have to see his epic magic.

I think the main problem is, why should anyone start the race to the next gate while Girard's still stands?

I think the plot twist might be the Order of the Stick destroying their first gate on purpose. All the previous ones were destroyed by accident.

[Mr. Pants]

Book 1 was rather short in comparison, so maybe this one will be extra long...

[Dr.Epic]

The next book could be 10 more pages, 20 more, 50 more, or even 100. We can't be sure how many each book will have until the books are done.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I'm with the crowd that thinks this one will end with a cliffhanger. With an average length of 180ish pages per book, there really isn't enough room left to have a three way battle, but there is enough room for Belkar to die heroically.

Then book Six will begin with the battle for Girard's Gate, then the race to Kraagor's Gate.

Book Seven will be the Grand Finale. Unless it's not. :smallbiggrin:

Order of the Stick started out with a dungeon crawl. Xykon's Tomb/Fortress could easily be the bookend Dungeon Crawl. This could be Book Eight, and could also be a shorter 120 page book.

[ti'esar]

I'm not convinced people are being quite accurate when they say that 20-30 strips isn't enough time to wrap up the arc in. Look how much happened in the 11 strips of the recently-concluded Team Evil mini-arc - and that included one strip that was pretty much entirely about setting the scene. The "climactic" showdown of DstP, at least from one view - (Darth) V and O'Chul vs Team Evil - began in 651 and concluded in 661, with 11 more strips to wrap up the story.

The longer our heroes poke around Draketooth HQ without Team Evil or the Linear Guild showing up, the more likely it does seem that Book 5 will end on a cliffhanger. But there's certainly enough time left as of this moment for a "proper" climax, I think.

[Ninja Dragon]

I'm not convinced people are being quite accurate when they say that 20-30 strips isn't enough time to wrap up the arc in. Look how much happened in the 11 strips of the recently-concluded Team Evil mini-arc - and that included one strip that was pretty much entirely about setting the scene. The "climactic" showdown of DstP, at least from one view - (Darth) V and O'Chul vs Team Evil - began in 651 and concluded in 661, with 11 more strips to wrap up the story.

The longer our heroes poke around Draketooth HQ without Team Evil or the Linear Guild showing up, the more likely it does seem that Book 5 will end on a cliffhanger. But there's certainly enough time left as of this moment for a "proper" climax, I think.

The problem here is the amount of characters who will be fighting. If you count 6 from OOTS, 6 from the Linear Guild and 2 from Team Evil (I suppose the mitd is not going to be revealed now), it's 14 characters. And we know fights in this comic tend to take lots of strips.

I think this book is going to be the longest yet. Like 230 strips long. Don't know about the number of pages...

Also, it would be interesting if more than just Belkar died in this battle. A total party kill, for example. Imagine what would it be like if Roy escaped barely alive, with 5 corpses to ressurect. It would fulfill both Belkar and Durkon's prophecys, and we would get to see their afterlives.

[AstralFire]

The problem here is the amount of characters who will be fighting. If you count 6 from OOTS, 6 from the Linear Guild and 2 from Team Evil (I suppose the mitd is not going to be revealed now), it's 14 characters. And we know fights in this comic tend to take lots of strips.

I think this book is going to be the longest yet. Like 230 strips long. Don't know about the number of pages...

Also, it would be interesting if more than just Belkar died in this battle. A total party kill, for example. Imagine what would it be like if Roy escaped barely alive, with 5 corpses to ressurect. It would fulfill both Belkar and Durkon's prophecys, and we would get to see their afterlives.

A total party kill followed by resurrections of everyone but Belkar would have the effect of significantly cheapening death, I feel.

[JSSheridan]

I think the fate of Girard's Gate will be decided, but they will still be dealing with the implications into book 6. It will also transition into book 7 where Kraagor's Gate will be central.

[Anarion]

Well, that does not need to be. What if Girard's gate has some sort of protection that doesn't allow Team Evil to use it, just like Dorukan's had? Girard was a wizard as well and we still have to see his epic magic.


I consider this very unlikely. One of the key points is that after splitting up, each member of the group chose to defend the gates according to his or her personal philosophy and in no other manner. Soon had loyal paladins, Dorukon had epic magic, Lyrian had druidic magic and forest creatures etc. For Girard to take a page out of Dorukon's book, rather than defend the gate itself with further illusions and misdirection would not fit with his character or the overall party discord that caused the Order of the Scribble to split up in the first place.


A total party kill followed by resurrections of everyone but Belkar would have the effect of significantly cheapening death, I feel.

It would depend how they died. If Belkar went off alone or sacrificed himself such that his body wasn't with the others, it could work out with this kind of scene. A bigger problem with mass resurrections is that it would weaken the whole Order and they're already fighting an uphill battle whenever they have to face Xykon.


As for the book issue, I see two ways of ending it.
1. The satisfactory ending: Book leads into a big fight soon and closes with the destruction of Girard's gate in some manner or other.
2. The "Oh boy I'm going to sell a lot of book 6" ending: Fighting starts between the Nale/Tarquin and OotS sides, book ends with Xykon and Co. making an appearance.

[Kish]

Girard has arced his last arc.


2. The "Oh boy I'm going to sell a lot of book 6" ending: Fighting starts between the Nale/Tarquin and OotS sides, book ends with Xykon and Co. making an appearance.
I think the chances of the book ending on a cliffhanger with the Order and the Linear Guild still fighting over Girard's Gate are negligible. More so, if the possible motivation for such involves selling Book 6, since Book 6 will be online for long before it could actually be purchased in print.

Going by the pattern of the three Gates destroyed already:
Lirian's Gate was destroyed in Start of Darkness, book -1.
Dorukan's Gate was destroyed in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, book 1.
Soon's Gate was destroyed in War and XPs, book 3.
It seems fairly likely that Girard's Gate will be destroyed in (unnamed book currently going up online), book 5, and either the destruction of Kraagor's Gate or the final end of the story will take place in book 7.

[Kalrany]

....Going by the pattern of the three Gates destroyed already:
Lirian's Gate was destroyed in Start of Darkness, book -1.
Dorukan's Gate was destroyed in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools, book 1.
Soon's Gate was destroyed in War and XPs, book 3.
It seems fairly likely that Girard's Gate will be destroyed in (unnamed book currently going up online), book 5, and either the destruction of Kraagor's Gate or the final end of the story will take place in book 7.

I think it is an interesting pattern, but unlikely that it was by design. It seems more like the Giant just uses clean splits for when to end his work based on the way the story goes, which does not really fit with a true cliffhanger. Additionally, since the strips are online long before the books are out, a good "what could happen next" is kinda a non-issue. We already have the answer. That being said, the gate destruction being every other book (since we have Origin of the PCs as book 0), I would agree that this is likely to happen. If it takes a good book for the set up, then the next book is the fight concluding with the destruction. If that level of storytelling remains, then the Girard's gate goes in 5 and Kraagor's in 7. But the question there is what kind of fight will the illusionist have? The way the Liner Guild will get involved? Team Evil?

It feels like we are left with too many questions, and at this point the author has not really tipped his hand. Besides, even if it does lay out that way, we have no idea what will happen with the Snarl free... epic showdown? whimper into nothing? something in between? Do all the gates have to be destroyed to let it out? Can it affect world 2.0 without being totally free? Does it want to? Again, since we do not have enough data, we can't guess at what will happen.

So.... I guess my answer to the OP is... maybe? Current indicators point that way... :smallbiggrin:

[Gift Jeraff]

I think the fact that Volumes 2-4 are relatively close in strip # is mostly coincidental. IIRC, DCF was supposed to be 100 strips and NCftPB was supposed to end at like #250, but the bandit and inn chapters were longer than anticipated, so it's not like he started the book intent on keeping it a set amount of strips.

Also keep in mind that the past 3 books, especially DStP, had a lot of scenes that were actually going to be put online, but weren't made for pacing reasons. If all of DStP's deleted scenes weren't "deleted" it would have had a little over 200 strips. What if Volume 5 simply hasn't had many deleted scenes, and it ends up with 200ish online strips? Nothing out of the ordinary, since that's what the previous book would have been anyway. And it would still need quite a bit of bonus material/extra-length strips to rival WaXP.

Somewhat relevant from the Geekademia interview:


Certainly moment by moment actions can change, twist or whatever in a way if I think of something more interesting at the time that I'm writing it than I did five years ago. Then I go with that, but really the big moments have all been pretty close to how I pictured them a long time ago.

Sometimes, some of these things are where I would be, I would write down a note like "and then they go to the desert." And I knew that when they got to the desert, Tarquin would be there, and they would do some desert-ey stuff with him before going back, before finding out what they needed to find and then go back out. But I didn't really get too worried about what happened in his empire until I was starting to plot this story arc, because it didn't really, it affected them personally but it didn't change the plot with Xykon and Redcloak, so I had the sort of freedom to put that on the shelf until I got to it.

[...]

Oh yeah, definitely more than. . . well, I say that, but you should take it with a grain of salt because I run long. Things are always longer than I plan them out to be because I always think of things in the middle that need to be addressed, either they're logical concerns or a character moment that needs to happen in order for it to be emotionally realistic. So then there will be an extra strip here, an extra strip there, and it'll add up. So it's definitely more than halfway done in terms of number of books, but the number of strips left, I don't even have a clue what that's gonna end up being. Some people are all "he's gonna plan to end it at strip 1000." Absolutely not. It will go way past strip 1000 because we're already at 833 and we're not done with this book yet, and there's at least two more books left.

So it's possible the Empire of Blood had more "things in the middle that need to be addressed" than usual, since the story arc was somewhat self-contained and introduced a whole new setting and several new characters.

[Forikroder]

i could see Girard having a room in the Ziggurat with multiple gates and casting a spell on one of the illusions makes the whole place blow sky high

[ti'esar]

Also, as far as the title goes, you might want to rephrase it as "Girard's Gate arc". Girard's arc is almost certainly over, seeing as he appears to have been dead for 20 years or so.

[Man on Fire]

Curse you, Redcloak. I hope Order will kill you for this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0825.html).

That's a strange way to say "Blessed be the hero of the Goblins".:smallwink:

I personally think that this book will end with something suprising, like mayor shift in power on bad guy's side or things going very out of control.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the series finale will take place in Xykon's band new fortress, it looks like a good place for climatic final battle.

[Mr. Pants]

Wasn't there already a scuffle in Xykon's tower? :smallconfused:

I'm pretty sure our heroes would have an easier time killing him if he wasn't in his supervillain base... :smallbiggrin:

[Fenice]

I consider this very unlikely. One of the key points is that after splitting up, each member of the group chose to defend the gates according to his or her personal philosophy and in no other manner. Soon had loyal paladins, Dorukon had epic magic, Lyrian had druidic magic and forest creatures etc. For Girard to take a page out of Dorukon's book, rather than defend the gate itself with further illusions and misdirection would not fit with his character or the overall party discord that caused the Order of the Scribble to split up in the first place.
I didn't mean that Girard would use the same spell. Just a spell that would lead to the same situation.

For example, the gate could be at the end of an epic illusory maze. Team Evil could conquer the place where the gate is located, but still they could need months to figure out the right way to cross it.

I don't think that this will happen (it would prevent the plot to continue). Still, it is possible for Team Evil to conquer a gate and to be prevented at the same time from using it.