Iaijutsu focus without the quickrazor

[Joe Eskimo]

Let's say I'm a 5th level factotum with the quick draw feat using a longsword.
In the 1st round of combat:
draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.
2nd round:
sheathe my longsword(move action) and cast grease(standard action).
3rd round:
draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.
4th round:
sheathe my longsword(move action) draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.
5th round:
same as 4th round.

Is this all legal? I'm using my move action to sheathe the weapon and quickdraw to draw it as a free action in order to attack and gain the IF damage. It sure is slower than using a quickrazor and i'm burning a move action denying me a full-round action. I don't really care about full attacks at this point since I only have a single attack anyway. I just want to know if I can apply my IF damage every round with a single strike using this process.

[Chronos]

Yup, it's not all that efficient, but it works, as long as you don't need to move more than 5'.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It actually works well right now; but once you get itterative attacks you should look into getting a quickrazor or a bunch of swords (draw them as a free action then drop them, also a free actions), otherwise your damage will plummet to trivial levels.

[Joe Eskimo]

Yeah I'm probably gonna get a quickrazor anyway once I hit +6 bab but right now I'm just enjoying the samurai feel to this character. Thanks for the help guys. The playground never disappoints me. :smallsmile:

[Slipperychicken]

Another idea is to use a -2 Cursed Sword. Since it always comes to your hand when you try to draw a weapon, you can drop it between attacks, then "try" to draw something else as a free action and re-draw the Cursed Sword instead, to save actions on sheathing and let you get iteratives. Only 1500gp.

[Ashtagon]

IF requires the target to be flat-footed. Good luck finding an enemy that remains flat-footed for multiple rounds.

[deuxhero]

That's what grease is for.

RAW, you don't need to use the weapon you just drew for IF, just draw a melee weapon.

As such, you can, with just quickdraw
1:As a free action, hold (works with two handed weapons) your sword one handed instead of two handedly.
2: As a free action, thanks to quickdraw, draw a weapon
3: As a free action, drop the weapon.
4: As a free action, hold your weapon two handedly
5: Make one of your attacks
6: Repeat from one untill you no longer have any attacks left to make, then repeat next round.

[Dusk Eclipse]

IF requires the target to be flat-footed. Good luck finding an enemy that remains flat-footed for multiple rounds.

It is actually pretty easy, as a Factotum he has access to Grease, which forces enemies to make balance checks and thus this little rules applies



Being Attacked while Balancing
You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren’t considered flat-footed while balancing. If you take damage while balancing, you must make another Balance check against the same DC to remain standing.


And unless the DM is making enemies tailored to counter this strategy, chanced that enemies have 5 ranks in balance are next to none.

[Coidzor]

That's what grease is for.

RAW, you don't need to use the weapon you just drew for IF, just draw a melee weapon.

As such, you can, with just quickdraw
1:As a free action, hold (works with two handed weapons) your sword one handed instead of two handedly.
2: As a free action, thanks to quickdraw, draw a weapon
3: As a free action, drop the weapon.
4: As a free action, hold your weapon two handedly
5: Make one of your attacks
6: Repeat from one untill you no longer have any attacks left to make, then repeat next round.

Hell, you can even fluff it as if you're drawing a dagger to toss at them except really you're just dropping it and slashing 'em really quick.

[Thurbane]

I know it's mixing systems, but there's a feat in PF that allows you to treat an unarmed foe as flat footed when you attack with an improvised weapon (also removes the attack penalty for improvised weapons). If you combined this with Improved Disarm and Quick Draw (and a quiver of arrows used as improvized melee weapons), you could probably be able to Iajutsu most of the time.

Actually, that would be pretty feat intensive...

[Joe Eskimo]

IF requires the target to be flat-footed. Good luck finding an enemy that remains flat-footed for multiple rounds.

I already cast grease on the 2nd round making any opponent without the ranks in balance flat-footed for the duration of the spell.

[Voyager_I]

That's what grease is for.

RAW, you don't need to use the weapon you just drew for IF, just draw a melee weapon.

As such, you can, with just quickdraw
1:As a free action, hold (works with two handed weapons) your sword one handed instead of two handedly.
2: As a free action, thanks to quickdraw, draw a weapon
3: As a free action, drop the weapon.
4: As a free action, hold your weapon two handedly
5: Make one of your attacks
6: Repeat from one untill you no longer have any attacks left to make, then repeat next round.

While your literal reading of the rules is correct, it's incredibly unlikely that this is actually how IF is meant to work and it would be a tough sell at best to any DM.

[Joe Eskimo]

Great input everyone. We don't use PF btw but that post got me thinking. Would pulling out an arrow count as drawing a weapon? An arrow is an improvised weapon that does the same damage as a dagger IIRC but is it a "weapon" per se? If so, I could draw an arrow(free action) thanks to quickdraw, drop the arrow(another free action) and attack with my longsword(standard action) applying IF damage. A quiver has 20 arrows and don't cost/weigh much. It's even cheaper than dropping daggers. It's a cheaper alternative to dropping actual weapons. Just trying to mix both good ideas. :smallsmile:

[Inferno]

I can't see anyone ruling that could be done with arrows, as you wouldn't even need quick draw. Drawing an arrow is a free action.

[Ashtagon]

I already cast grease on the 2nd round making any opponent without the ranks in balance flat-footed for the duration of the spell.

What you think happens:


Let's say I'm a 5th level factotum with the quick draw feat using a longsword.
In the 1st round of combat:
draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.
2nd round:
sheathe my longsword(move action) and cast grease(standard action).
3rd round:
draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.
4th round:
sheathe my longsword(move action) draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.
5th round:
same as 4th round.

What actually happens:

In the 1st round of combat: draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.

He gives his best full attack against you.

2nd round: sheathe my longsword(move action) and cast grease(standard action).

He gives his best full attack against you, possibly disrupting your spell.

3rd round: draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.

He makes his DC 10 Balance check (really, this is a 50:50 thing at worst). Assuming he succeeds, he makes his best full attack against you and takes a 5-foot step to leave the area of the grease spell.

4th round: sheathe my longsword(move action) draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.

Except that since he is not in the greased area anymore, you don't get IF damage. He makes his best full attack against you.

5th round: same as 4th round.

Same as 4th round. That's five full attacks you've swallowed now. You've made four standard attacks (two of which could have been full attacks).

[Bloodgruve]

Take Item Familiar on your cursed sword to boost IF or Hide or Move Silently

Get Improved Invisibility or Hide in Plain Sight.

Hide from your opponent which makes him flat footed towards you.

Get all your IF attacks in with him being flat footed.


I'm currently playing a Factotum/Swordsage1 and its my favorite character so far. Whisper Gnome with Dark Creature template gives HiPS and a terribly good Hide, also gives me the Quickrazor proficiency. I don't use grease, I'd stock up on marbles and engineer yourself a couple quick release pouches and refill between battles. Sapphire Night Blade, Acrobatic Backstab, and Hidden Blade give FF too.

Can you enchant a cursed sword with +'s?

GL
Blood~

[Coidzor]

2nd round: sheathe my longsword(move action) and cast grease(standard action).

He gives his best full attack against you, possibly disrupting your spell.

...How does someone full attack on an AoO?

[Varil]

What you think happens:

He makes his DC 10 Balance check (really, this is a 50:50 thing at worst). Assuming he succeeds, he makes his best full attack against you and takes a 5-foot step to leave the area of the grease spell.

I don't think you can 5' foot step when affected by grease. It halves you movement, so it meets the criteria to be 'difficult terrain', which prevents you from taking 5' steps.

[Frog Dragon]

You've made four standard attacks (two of which could have been full attacks).
What full attacks? This is a fifth level character. With medium BAB. He has a base attack bonus of +3. Without TWF, this character has no full attack to care about. Likewise, most of the time, the only time an enemy has an full attack to care about at these levels is when they have multiple natural weapons.

[Snowbluff]

IDR how this works, but a -2 cursed sword could be used to get more attacks with Iaijutsu. I think you always draw it when you try to draw anything, so dropping it rather than sheathing it should let you draw it again.

EDIT: inb4 Chicken Infested with EWP:Chicken.

[Joe Eskimo]

[SPOILER]
What you think happens:



What actually happens:

In the 1st round of combat: draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.

He gives his best full attack against you.

2nd round: sheathe my longsword(move action) and cast grease(standard action).

He gives his best full attack against you, possibly disrupting your spell.

3rd round: draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.

He makes his DC 10 Balance check (really, this is a 50:50 thing at worst). Assuming he succeeds, he makes his best full attack against you and takes a 5-foot step to leave the area of the grease spell.

4th round: sheathe my longsword(move action) draw my longsword(free action) and attack(standard action) applying IF damage.

Except that since he is not in the greased area anymore, you don't get IF damage. He makes his best full attack against you.

5th round: same as 4th round.

Same as 4th round. That's five full attacks you've swallowed now. You've made four standard attacks (two of which could have been full attacks).

Lol. Oh I forgot, you're a 3rd lvl goblin adept with no ranks in balance.
Don't take everything so seriously. It was only an example.

[Golden Ladybug]

Another idea is to use a -2 Cursed Sword. Since it always comes to your hand when you try to draw a weapon, you can drop it between attacks, then "try" to draw something else as a free action and re-draw the Cursed Sword instead, to save actions on sheathing and let you get iteratives. Only 1500gp.


IDR how this works, but a -2 cursed sword could be used to get more attacks with Iaijutsu. I think you always draw it when you try to draw anything, so dropping it rather than sheathing it should let you draw it again.

EDIT: inb4 Chicken Infested with EWP:Chicken.

The -2 Cursed Sword is the best weapon ever printed. No exceptions :smallbiggrin:

But seriously, it really is quite good, and I suggest you acquire one at the first opportunity

[Bastian Weaver]

I think we've already had this discussion about -2 Cursed Sword and that it depends on DM's understanding of how the curse actually works...

[Snowbluff]

I think we've already had this discussion about -2 Cursed Sword and that it depends on DM's understanding of how the curse actually works...

Really? It's quite clear that the weapon is always drawn when you attempt to draw another...

[Ashtagon]

Someone remind me which day of the week has been chosen for discussions of IF with cursed swords?

[Voyager_I]

Someone remind me which day of the week has been chosen for discussions of IF with cursed swords?

Would you like to bring back Monkday?

[Snowbluff]

Would you like to bring back Monkday?

You totally need Monk levels to benefit from Tashalatora becau-

Oh gods it's already started!


On a more serious note, being Chicken Infested with Improvised Weapon uses (like Drunken Master IIRC) potential ends the need for carrying more than a few weapons at a time.

[Slipperychicken]

EDIT: inb4 Chicken Infested with EWP:Chicken.

AFAIK, Chickens aren't listed as exotic weapons anywhere, and thus are ineligible for EWP.

[Flickerdart]

There's a skill trick that lets you treat an enemy as flat-footed if you draw a hidden weapon. So you can use that if Grease fails you.

[Snowbluff]

AFAIK, Chickens aren't listed as exotic weapons anywhere, and thus are ineligible for EWP.

Yeah, you're going to have them as Improvised weapons with something like Drunken Master. I just had it differently in a different post.

I don't want to know what happens to the chicken if he rolls a one...

[Coidzor]

I don't want to know what happens to the chicken if he rolls a one...

Chicken nuggets for dinner that night. :smallamused:

[Axinian]

I don't want to know what happens to the chicken if he rolls a one...

The most delicious natural 1 ever?

[Tesla_pasta]

The most delicious natural 1 ever?

LOL

no need for profession (chef), when you can fumble dinner up.

in other news, is there any way to have "dancing" swords resheathe themselves? that would be flavorfully AWESOME. also, If i remember correctly, you can get spell-storing swords, so you can store grease in them. Would be expensive, but way cool to carry around 6 dancing spell storing longswords that flew back into the sheathe as you attacked.

[Snowbluff]

LOL

no need for profession (chef), when you can fumble dinner up.

in other news, is there any way to have "dancing" swords resheathe themselves? that would be flavorfully AWESOME. also, If i remember correctly, you can get spell-storing swords, so you can store grease in them. Would be expensive, but way cool to carry around 6 dancing spell storing longswords that flew back into the sheathe as you attacked.

First of all, all of us only have ranks in (Gourmet Chef). And everyone knows real chefs don't make anything with chicken. It's too boring. :smallcool:

Dancing Weapons would be plain awesome for this if it worked :D

[Tesla_pasta]

EDIT: sorry, double post.

[Soranar]

You could also get a bunch of hidden weapons from complete scoundrel

1 in each knee
1 in each boot
1 in each elbows

round 1, draw your longsword and strike with Iajutsu focus

round 2, draw a hidden weapon and strike with the longsword (Iajutsu focus only says you have to draw a weapon, doesn't say you have to use that weapon to get the bonus)

round 3 and up, repeat round 2 until you run out of hidden weapons.

[Slipperychicken]

You could also get a bunch of hidden weapons from complete scoundrel

1 in each knee
1 in each boot
1 in each elbows

round 1, draw your longsword and strike with Iajutsu focus

round 2, draw a hidden weapon and strike with the longsword (Iajutsu focus only says you have to draw a weapon, doesn't say you have to use that weapon to get the bonus)

round 3 and up, repeat round 2 until you run out of hidden weapons.

Round 4: Nurse your aching head after the DM throws a book at you. It's done better with arrows anyway, since you draw those with a free action.

[Snowbluff]

Round 4: Nurse your aching head after the DM throws a book at you. It's done better with arrows anyway, since you draw those with a free action.

Ooooh, drawing an Arrow is a free action, isn't it? Drunken Master should still be here, so even if you end up fighting with the arrow it isn't so bad. :3

[Soranar]

Actually there is some credit (roleplay wise) to the drawing hidden weapons thing. Every time you draw a hidden weapon you surprise your opponent and then further surprise him by hitting him with your original weapon instead.

The whole point of Iajustsu focus is that you hit your opponent when he's surprised and you get a bonus out of it (much like sneak attack, which is why they don't stack according to the rules).

[Snowbluff]

Actually there is some credit (roleplay wise) to the drawing hidden weapons thing. Every time you draw a hidden weapon you surprise your opponent and then further surprise him by hitting him with your original weapon instead.

The whole point of Iajustsu focus is that you hit your opponent when he's surprised and you get a bonus out of it (much like sneak attack, which is why they don't stack according to the rules).

Yeah, except that he's not flat-footed, since he is expecting an attack from you in the first place.

Also, the point of Iaijutsu is to use the momentum of your sword from drawing it to perform a more powerful swing.

[Coidzor]

Round 4: Nurse your aching head after the DM throws a book at you. It's done better with arrows anyway, since you draw those with a free action.

Round 5: Have a book throwing fight instead of D&D because that's the end result of such things anyway.