Greatest non-charge, single-strike melee weapon damage?

[Answerer]

Does anyone know if anyone's attempted to create a record-damage build with the following restrictions:
In one melee attack.
Without charging, or using a Coup de Grace (i.e. only can assume a crit if you manage a very large threat range).
No infinite loops
Damage must be instantaneous, and caused by the attack.

For bonus points, do it with an Unarmed Strike.

I have a build that abuses some dubious readings of Precocious Apprentice and Iaijutso Focus, not to mention a couple of Dragon feats, to deal 816 damage with one punch. I'm sure that's nowhere near the record, of course, but it does amuse me.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If pure damage, I guess a single hit of a properly buffed King of Smack which deals about 32d6 damage per attack, for an average of 112 points of damage in a single strike.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Either use Festering Anger or Chicken-Infested plus Persistent Greater Consumptive Field. Have a nigh-infinite Str score, and thus nigh-infinite damage.

[IdleMuse]

What about with no infinite loops?

[Answerer]

Added some new rules, because yeah, that wasn't really what I had in mind.

[Kumori]

If the attack causes Con damage, does the resulting loss of life count?

[RaggedAngel]

Strike of Perfect Clarity gives a flat +100. That's got to be worth something, and it isn't questionable at all. That, plus being a half-minotaur Goliath with a Heavy Fullblade, Strongarm Bracers, Power Attack, Monkey Grip (terrible, I know, but we want one big attack)...

I'm not sure how much of the size enhancement stacks, but we should be able to get the weapon's base damage up to Colossal.

[Crasical]

Hmm. I'm only getting 170 using Greater Insightful Strike and the Simon Warblade trick.

Greater insightful strike,
23 ranks in Perform
23 Item Familiar Bonus
+7 Charisma
+7 Motivate Charisma
+20 Competence (Guidance of the avatar)
+3 Skill Focus
+2 Circumstance (Masterwork Instrument)

= 85, x2 for 170.

[Kumori]

Use a +1 Weapon of Bane, 2xAlignments (Holy, Axiomatic, etc), Flaming, Frost, Shock and ___. There could easily be better mods, but assuming no resists these would add another 9d6 damage.

[Rubik]

Okay. Level 20 orc barbarian with 18 points put into Strength. By level 20 he's got 18 + 5 (levels) 4 (racial) + 5 (tome) + 6 (Strength item) + 8 (two arm grafts from Libris Mortis) + 8 (rage) = 54 Strength (and a +22 modifier -- not including any potential Polymorph effects)


A coup de grace Power-Attack-for-Full on a +1 bane (creature type) manyfanged collision scythe (plus 6d6+18d10 energy damage from various energy-burst enhancements) using Greater Magic Weapon (+5) and Strike of Perfect Clarity (gotten through an item).

That's (((2d4+2*22 Str+145 152)*4)+8d6+18d10)*4 damage. I THINK I got everything in there. An average of 3,584 3,684 damage...I think.

Do it on a creature that's vulnerable to an energy type but not immune or resistant to others, and you can increase that energy damage somewhat.

[edit] Oh, wait. I forgot the Collision damage. Gotta recalculate...

3,684 damage

[edit 2] ACK! I forgot the 'bane' property! Fixed!

[Morph Bark]

Either use Festering Anger or Chicken-Infested plus Persistent Greater Consumptive Field. Have a nigh-infinite Str score, and thus nigh-infinite damage.

For an alternate way of nigh-infinite Strength, loop Incarnate Construct and Dust Creature on a Warforged.

Works at level 1.

[Kumori]

For an alternate way of nigh-infinite Strength, loop Incarnate Construct and Dust Creature on a Warforged.

Works at level 1.

What books are those from?

[gomipile]

Hmm. I'm only getting 170 using Greater Insightful Strike and the Simon Warblade trick.

Greater insightful strike,
23 ranks in Perform
23 Item Familiar Bonus
+7 Charisma
+7 Motivate Charisma
+20 Competence (Guidance of the avatar)
+3 Skill Focus
+2 Circumstance (Masterwork Instrument)

= 85, x2 for 170.

You'd be better of with a +30 competence bonus from an item than the +20 from the 3.0 version of Guidance of the Avatar. You can also use Divine Insight, which gives you a +10 insight bonus.

On another note, what(fluff-wise) would constitute a masterwork tool of Concentrate?

[Answerer]

Heh, I forgot to include any weapon properties on mine, and I wasn't doing a Coup de Grace. Updating the rules with that, heh.

What do you get without the crit?

[IdleMuse]

Re: the Orc Barbarian 20 build, there's much higher strength builds possible than just that; templates and whatnot can give you many strength boosts, and War Hulk can add 20 strength right there.

[Crasical]

You'd be better of with a +30 competence bonus from an item than the +20 from the 3.0 version of Guidance of the Avatar. You can also use Divine Insight, which gives you a +10 insight bonus.

On another note, what(fluff-wise) would constitute a masterwork tool of Concentrate?

It's not a masterwork tool of concentrate, it's a masterwork tool of Perform.
So, an instrument.

[Thurbane]

What books are those from?
Incarnate Construct = Savage Species
Dust Creature (I assume is Dustform Creature) = Sandstorm
...and of course, Warforged = ECS or MM3.

[Snowbluff]

If pure damage, I guess a single hit of a properly buffed King of Smack which deals about 32d6 damage per attack, for an average of 112 points of damage in a single strike.

Add Tashalatora's unarmed Strike Damage at the absurd sizes that PSW has with Beaststrike. Significantly more damage. I don't have the actual number, since how extra damage past colossal is unknown to me, but the 2d8 Unarmed becomes 12d8 (5 size cats, 2 expansion, 3 Metamorphosis), and then you add the 5d6 Claw of the beast boosted the 5 (or more). Then add the Str bonus of whatever huge human-enough creature you turned yourself into.

[dextercorvia]

Wizard1/Spellthief1/Monk1/EnlightenedFist10/SpellwarpSniper3/AbjurantChampion4/

Use my Versatile Domain Generalist trick to get 9ths at 1st level. Use whatever trick you like to get a CL of 30 or so. Spellwarp an Empowered Maximized Hammer of Righteousness, and then Hold Ray to attack with an unarmed strike. Use Arcane Strike, to dump the rest of your ~400 spell levels into d4s of damage.

Deal Unarmed damage (stack some size increases/monks belt, etc)+180+15d6+400d4 for about 1250 damage on average. There is room to tweak it out with a Ring of Wizardry, or really pumping Int -- I've only estimated mid 20s.

[deuxhero]

Doesn't Hurking Hurler do damage that increases expoentially with its strength score and starts at a point that breaks the game if you simply qualify for it?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Doesn't Hurking Hurler do damage that increases expoentially with its strength score and starts at a point that breaks the game if you simply qualify for it?

That's for throwing a rock though, this is a melee attack.

On that note, CDG =/= melee attack.

[deuxhero]

Doesn't Bloodstorm blade have an ability to make your throwing attacks count as melee attacks?

[dextercorvia]

Doesn't Bloodstorm blade have an ability to make your throwing attacks count as melee attacks?

No, it allows you to make melee attacks at range.

[Zaq]

I feel like Diamond Nightmare Blade might be our ticket here. Let's take a Frenzied Berserker (non-frenzying, since we gotta make a Concentration check) for that delightful Supreme Power Attack (4:1 return on PA with a two-handed weapon). Assume we dump all our BAB into PA, because that's how we roll. 4:1 return on 20 BAB gives us +80 from PA alone, and then DNB turns that into +320, which doesn't suck. And that's before STR, base weapon damage, or anything else. That's just PA and DNB.

Now, admittedly, I forget if you can get DNB on a Frenzied Berserker with enough levels for Supreme Power Attack, but we can just mumble something about bloodline shenanigans bumping up your IL and leave it at that.

[Voyager_I]

I wonder if Iaijutsu Focus would be worth sneaking into the build somewhere. Can't think of many situations that would cater more directly to it.

[Answerer]

I feel like Diamond Nightmare Blade might be our ticket here.
I wonder if Iaijutsu Focus would be worth sneaking into the build somewhere. Can't think of many situations that would cater more directly to it.
I used both of these things, and agree with both of you that they do seem ideal.

Of course...

Wizard1/Spellthief1/Monk1/EnlightenedFist10/SpellwarpSniper3/AbjurantChampion4/

[...]

about 1250 damage on average.
Wizards still do it better. I am curious about this 9ths at 1st trick, if you have a link...

Though I might be able to get another 450 damage out of my build (with Diamond Nightmare Blade, that's only another 113 damage to get multiplied), since I haven't looked into weapon enhancements and I have about 5 levels to play with.

But of course my build is probably not 100% legit, which is why I haven't posted it. I don't want the thread getting bogged down with an argument over whether or not the tricks I've used work by RAW, since I'm more interested in what other people can come up with.

[dextercorvia]

9ths at 1st link is in my sig. Versatile Domain Generalist. I didn't really use it for much but early entry into Enlightened Fist. I also didn't bother to really crank up my CL, etc. That is a lower bound for what I would expect to be able to do.

[Answerer]

Fair enough, and yeah, you could do a lot more, and my build has limited ability to add more damage.

Disappointing that even in this we get Wizard domination.

[RMS Oceanic]

Gestalt Duskblade//Cleric, power attack and arcane channel Harm through the attack. That's like almost 200 damage there. :smalltongue:

[Thurbane]

Gestalt Duskblade//Cleric, power attack and arcane channel Harm through the attack. That's like almost 200 damage there. :smalltongue:
Duskblade/Urpriest can get there too.

[Cespenar]

You could probably combo some crazy crap with Time Stands Still, Raging Mongoose and TWF, channeling all those attacks into Stormguard Warrior, and initiating a Diamond Nightmare Blade on the next turn.

[kardar233]

You could probably combo some crazy crap with Time Stands Still, Raging Mongoose and TWF, channeling all those attacks into Stormguard Warrior, and initiating a Diamond Nightmare Blade on the next turn.

The best way to do this is using Avalanche of Blades and Crushing Strike (which effectively reduces Avalanche's cascading penalty by 1 per iteration). Then fire off that Diamond Nightmare Blade.

As little of the damage is based on Strength, you could even get away with doing it unarmed. The attacks are very much based on how high you can pump your to-hit, though.

Imagine those kung-fu movies where the old master glides past his opponent doing minor things like poking them with one finger, and then finally making a single strike that defeats them.

[Cespenar]

The best way to do this is using Avalanche of Blades and Crushing Strike (which effectively reduces Avalanche's cascading penalty by 1 per iteration). Then fire off that Diamond Nightmare Blade.

As little of the damage is based on Strength, you could even get away with doing it unarmed. The attacks are very much based on how high you can pump your to-hit, though.

Imagine those kung-fu movies where the old master glides past his opponent doing minor things like poking them with one finger, and then finally making a single strike that defeats them.

I considered that too, but I think Time Stands Still + Raging Mongoose + TWF + natural attacks would generate a greater total of attacks. There are ways probably to even add more, via MWF and such. While Avalanche is cool, it can't get to 20-30 attacks the way this combo does, barring utter cheese.

Your kung-fu depiction is nice, though. I was thinking along the same line. :smallbiggrin:

[Answerer]

Oooh, I didn't even know about the Combat Rhythm option of Stormguard Warrior. Very nice! That definitely seems like an excellent way to do it.

The Duskblade idea is a very interesting one... too bad you can't combine it with Diamond Nightmare Blade.

[kulosle]

So the 16 levels in fighter lets you make one attack as a full round attack that does double damage might be worth noting.
But if I had to bet this would probably be done through having the most arms. For each extra hand you use to hold a weapon you can add another .5 x Str to the damage.

I think the record for the largest number of hands is 1024 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=260uu3cm7aeq9sare3hhv2suv3&topic=146.msg1140#msg1140). If you want to use extreme cheese you can get that many hands without using up any of your levels by mind switching into the body. So take that into consideration. Now its a question of how high can you get your str which I believe the record is 187 (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861650/The_3.5_CO_Board_Thread_of_World_Records) for a mod of 88.

1022(extra arms) x .5(the bonus per arm) =511 + 1.5(the normal bonus for two hands)= 512.5. 512.5 x 88 = 45,100.

Now max Iaijustsu focus and add weapon enhancements and normal weapon damage (barely any more damage in comparison)

EDIT: all be it my idea was just to combine other peoples idea, but never the less it's a good idea

[Morph Bark]

If the damage must be dealt by a single character, but it can have support from other characters buffing it, then we can add another 120d6 of energy damage from Dragonfire Inspiration. Doesn't matter much if you got your level 1 Warforged Commoner with NI Strength of course, though it would still be handy if you encounter Swarms made up of Fine or Diminutive creatures.

[Answerer]

Mm, of course there's a lot more buffs than that that we could pile on. But yeah, I did mean a single character.

[Telonius]

If the attack causes Con damage, does the resulting loss of life count?

Probably shouldn't; otherwise a successful hit on a foe with an arbitrarily large number of HD would win the contest.

[Voyager_I]

9ths at 1st link is in my sig. Versatile Domain Generalist. I didn't really use it for much but early entry into Enlightened Fist. I also didn't bother to really crank up my CL, etc. That is a lower bound for what I would expect to be able to do.

It's a very clever trick, but it breaks the game hard enough that I would basically assume it to be banned in any competition that didn't specifically allow infinite loops and other similar levels of abuse.

After all, it is essentially a chain reaction for gaining spell levels that functions like an infinite loop until you run out of Domain levels.

[DarkestKnight]

Strike of Perfect Clarity gives a flat +100. That's got to be worth something, and it isn't questionable at all. That, plus being a half-minotaur Goliath with a Heavy Fullblade, Strongarm Bracers, Power Attack, Monkey Grip (terrible, I know, but we want one big attack)...

I'm not sure how much of the size enhancement stacks, but we should be able to get the weapon's base damage up to Colossal.

Strongarm bracers explicitly says it does not stack with powerful build.

shouldn't the power attack/ shock trooper silliness be mentioned here? you can get obscene damage through it.

[Rubik]

This uses implanted quori power link shards, which allow you to boost your augmentation by +2 pp each 3/day (1 per ML, and multiple uses stack), Overchannel (+3 ML at level 20), an orange ioun stone (+1 ML), a prayer bead of karma (+4 ML), a torc of power preservation (+1 3/day), Midnight Augmentation (+4), and Earth Power (+1) for a total augmentation potential of 19 (psion) + 38 (shards) + 3 (Overchannel) + 1 (ioun stone) + 4 (bead) + 1 (torc) + 4 (M.A.) + 1 (E.P.) = up to 71 pp spent on one power per day, 67 on two powers per day, and 28 the remainder of the day.

A venerable human factotum 1/StP Magic-mantled erudite 19 with a Large 4-handed deep crystal +1 manyfanged bane aptitude scythe of [energy] burst x7 using Greater Magic Weapon (+5). It has the magical properties of the horseshoes of flame (from Savage Species) added onto its boots, as per the rules in the Magic Item Compendium and a tooth of Leraje from Tome of Magic, as well as a weapon crystal from the MIC for free Quick Draw.

It uses the following powers (it researched all the necessary psywar and discipline powers, as per the guidelines in the XPH):
Polymorph Any Object (x2) into a sarrukh (Int 30)
Metamorphosis into a girallon
Assimilate (+4 untyped to all ability scores)
Strength of My Enemy (Boosted up to 69 points of total augmentation using everything available)
Expansion (+2 size categories)
Psionic Prescience (Boosted up to 67 points of total augmentation)
Dissolving Weapon (Boosted up to 67 points of total augmentation)

It has the following feats:
Able Learner
Power Attack
Knowledge Devotion
Midnight Augmentation
Psicarnum Infusion
Earth Sense
Earth Power
Overchannel
Extra Spell (Hunter's Mercy) -- it's a feat that applies explicitly to a bow, and so for the purposes of this build allows Hunter's Mercy to apply to the scythe, which grants a critical hit with it automatically.

The erudite was double-PAO'd into a sarrukh, used its horseshoes of flame, then metamorphed into a girallon, then used Expansion.

Strength: 22 (Girallon) + 5 (Levels) + 4 (Assimilate) 52 (Strength of My Enemy) + 5 (Tome) + 8 (Grafts) + 4 (Expansion) = 100 (+45)

Intelligence: 30 (Sarrukh) + 6 (item) + 5 (Tome) + 3 (age) + 4 (Assimilate) 10 (Boots of Horseshoes of Flame) = 58 (+24)

That ends up with a Gargantuan-sized girallon with a Strength of 100, an Int of 58, and a four-handed super-scythe.

3d8+1 Scythe
5 Greater Magic Weapon (does not stack with +1 above)
5 Knowledge Devotion
24 Intelligence
45 Strength
24 Offensive Prescience
10 Power Attack
1 Aptitude Weapon
2d6+2 bane
7d6 energy
21d10 critical burst damage
2d6 deep crystal
20d6 Dissolving Weapon
9d6 Iaijutsu Focus
x4 critical
x4 manyfanged enhancement

((3d8+Str*2.5+Int+PA*2+GMW+KnD+OP+2 Bane+1)*4+2d6+7d6+2d6+20d6+21d10)*4+9d6

((3d8+45*2.5+24+10*2+5+5+24+2+1)*4+31d6+21d10)*4+9 d6

Average 4,239.5

[Answerer]

Impressive, but I did say no Coup de Grace. One quarter your stated total is less than dextercorvia had, and I find the idea of researching PsyWar powers dubious at best (as a DM, I probably wouldn't let you; that's what Expanded Knowledge is for). Also, pretty sure that the Prayer Beads cannot be used on anything but Divine spells, which Psionic powers definitely aren't, no matter how far you stretch Magic-Psionics transparency.

[Rubik]

Impressive, but I did say no Coup de Grace.Yeah, I changed it just now to NOT be CdG, because I wrote it at home and wanted to post it just now. I just missed that one bit. Gonna go edit it out.


One quarter your stated total is less than dextercorvia had, and I find the idea of researching PsyWar powers dubious at best (as a DM, I probably wouldn't let you; that's what Expanded Knowledge is for).That could work too. EK it, turn it into a power stone, then learn it after you PsyRef it out. But you can research new powers, which means it can't be identical to the psywar version. That means I research an otherwise identical psion version and change the name.


Also, pretty sure that the Prayer Beads cannot be used on anything but Divine spells, which Psionic powers definitely aren't, no matter how far you stretch Magic-Psionics transparency.Prayer beads work on any kind of caster level (try reading it again -- and use UMD), and the XPH explicitly states that items that work on spells also work on powers.

[Answerer]

Yeah, I changed it just now to NOT be CdG, because I wrote it at home and wanted to post it just now. I just missed that one bit. Gonna go edit it out.
K, that's fine.


That could work too. EK it, turn it into a power stone, then learn it after you PsyRef it out. But you can research new powers, which means it can't be identical to the psywar version. That means I research an otherwise identical psion version and change the name.
Forgot about Psychic Reformation, so yeah, that works.

The researching thing, IMO, amounts to homebrew, and I don't think it would count.


Prayer beads work on any kind of caster level (try reading it again), and the XPH explicitly states that items that work on spells also work on powers.
Ah, you are correct: they are just +4 Caster Level, but you need to be capable of casting Divine Spells to activate it. You are not capable of casting Divine Spells, and Magic-Psionics transparency does not cover that.

If you could cast Divine Spells, though, then it would work. Which, I guess, means a level of Cleric or something, losing 1 ML (which means Practiced Manifester is worth +2 ML and might now be better than Earth Power), and then you activate it and use it to apply to ML.

[Rubik]

Ah, you are correct: they are just +4 Caster Level, but you need to be capable of casting Divine Spells to activate it. You are not capable of casting Divine Spells, and Magic-Psionics transparency does not cover that.Also, he has factotum, Able Learner, a HUGE Int score, and access to UMD (which I also edited into my previous post -- so he can totally do it. Yay level 20.


If you could cast Divine Spells, though, then it would work. Which, I guess, means a level of Cleric or something, losing 1 ML (which means Practiced Manifester is worth +2 ML and might now be better than Earth Power), and then you activate it and use it to apply to ML.Or just use UMD.

[Answerer]

Ah, right. Forgot about that. Tis dumb, but it is what it is.

[Rubik]

Huh. I could use one of those ToB items (and some juggling with PsyRef) to give me +100 damage to that (pre-crit) using Strike of Perfect Clarity.

So consider the damage boosted to 5,835.5 if I use that.

[Answerer]

Without assuming a Crit, Diamond Nightmare Blade probably does more.

[Rubik]

Without assuming a Crit, Diamond Nightmare Blade probably does more.But I do assume a crit, since I can force it 100% of the time (barring miss chances, which I could get around in other ways, but are beyond the required scope of this exercise).

[Answerer]

How? You no longer state that you are using CdG, but I don't see anything that has replaced that...

Also, what's Hunter's Mercy? I'm not understanding your note about that.

[Rubik]

How? You no longer state that you are using CdG, but I don't see anything that has replaced that...

Also, what's Hunter's Mercy? I'm not understanding your note about that.Hunter's Mercy is a ranger spell that forces an auto hit and crit on a bow shot (basically you auto-roll a nat 20 and auto-confirm). But I'm using the Magic Mantle to force greater-than-transparency, so Extra Spell allows me to get it as a power known via StP erudite, and since it's gotten through a feat and ONLY affects a single type of weapon (bows), I'm using a loophole to force it to apply to my aptitude scythe, which allows me to critical hit whenever I use Hunter's Mercy.

It's a cheap trick that relies on a vague loophole, but I'm pretty sure it works (if only through a technicality).

[Answerer]

Yeah, I just looked it up. That's definitely not legit. The feat does not have anything to do with weapons – it's giving you a spell. The spell, meanwhile, is not included in the rules for Aptitude weapon. That definitely is not valid.

Though, of course, it is really no worse than the shenanigans I used myself, but with much greater effect, so whatever.

[Rubik]

Yeah, I just looked it up. That's definitely not legit. The feat does not have anything to do with weapons – it's giving you a spell. The spell, meanwhile, is not included in the rules for Aptitude weapon. That definitely is not valid.Well, it IS the result of a feat, and only affects a single type of weapon. Like I said, loophole.

[edit] Also, do note that it was a quickie patch because my original build relied on a CdG for that hit, so you pulled the rug out from under me, and this was what I came up with in about 2 minutes. Oh well.

[Answerer]

Well, it IS the result of a feat, and only affects a single type of weapon. Like I said, loophole.
Yeah, except it's not a valid loophole. The effect of the spell is not the effect of the feat.


Also, do note that it was a quickie patch because my original build relied on a CdG for that hit, so you pulled the rug out from under, and this was what I came up with in about 2 minutes. Oh well.
It doesn't really matter; it's pretty clear that you can do astounding things with this approach, crit or not.

[Cespenar]

Also to note, Aptitude weapon Lightning Mace shenanigans + Stormguard Warrior = nigh-infinite damage, probably. The first part is cheesy, though.

[Answerer]

Oh man, that's true. Ew.

[dextercorvia]

It's a very clever trick, but it breaks the game hard enough that I would basically assume it to be banned in any competition that didn't specifically allow infinite loops and other similar levels of abuse.

After all, it is essentially a chain reaction for gaining spell levels that functions like an infinite loop until you run out of Domain levels.

It is a loop, but that level limit by very nature makes it a finite loop. Like I said, I wasn't actually using if for anything but early entry into Enlightened Fist -- and to show off. Convert the Abjurant Champion levels to Wizard levels and move them to the beginning of the build. You lose nothing but the 2 points of BAB.

[Phaederkiel]

the 170 Insightful strike variant forgets to aply the 1d20 you still roll...

and the stormguard version can do a little more if you stand in the blood in the water stance. I am not entirely sure if you do the touch attacks with your weapons, but if you do, keen kukris could boost the dmg considerably.

[Rejusu]

The researching thing, IMO, amounts to homebrew, and I don't think it would count.

It's not homebrew:


Independent Research
A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.

Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying.

It is however one of those nebulous things that's included only at the DM's discretion.