For Fun: Do your worst! :)

[Gobidobo]

My group are doing a "power gamer" type dungeon crawl. The GM said the characters can be any class and any race- any meaning anything that will work with 3.5e.. Homebrew included. :) You can be a monster, creature, abomination, etc.. Whatever.. But it has to be single classed (no gestalt), use no templates and be level 5. Alignment doesn't really matter, it can be anything. :) GM didn't mention any restrictions on weapons/armor/magic items, either (outside of what it already comes with).. lol

... Oh, and from any plane of existence.. lol :) May as well make it interesting, right?

The objective of the dungeon is "seek and destroy"... If you don't kill it, it's because you're dead.

The "party" doesn't have to be out for anyone except themselves, if they don't choose to be.

Whoever beats the dungeon wins a butt load of coin & is granted access to a mystery city beyond the dungeon.

~~~~

So... I just wanted to see what you guys could come up with! :D If I end up using one of your creations, I will let you know how it worked out! :D I am just asking you guys this to get the creativity & inspiration flowing & of course to see all the cool stuff other folks can come up with. :) It's always fun! :)

Create something you'd like to play, or something you'd hate to encounter in a game. :)

[nedz]

Very good, but you haven't given us anything to work with. We get a lot of posts like these. Any idea about what sort of character you want to play ?:smallconfused:
Melee, Ranged, Skillmonkey, Arcanist, Diviner Caster, ..., Basket Weaver ?

[Marlowe]

Also, how much $$$ to spend on gear? When you say "single-class (no gestalt)", do you mean just "no gestalt" or no multiclassing at all?

[Sir_Mopalot]

Well, I mean, if homebrew is okay, then I'd say the Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior) is probably a decent bet. I mean, it sacrifices a lot of power for flavor, but still worth a look.

[limejuicepowder]

elven generalist domain wizard sounds like the way to go, if unfair power really doesn't matter.

also, it's not quite clear in the post: does the character's ECL have to be 5, or can you take 5 class levels regardless of race?

you'll have low hp but pixies are pretty rockin. Great built in defensive abilities, and enough stat increases to do pretty much anything.

another combo I've wanted to try is a warlock (one of the few classes that can easily use their powers while incorporeal) ghost with levels in master of the unseen hand. This class gets ripped on, but that has to do with the loss of spellcasting: I think it might good if you stack it with a racial telekinesis.

[Hyudra]

Why not go completely off the wall, and pick a monster class from the homebrew forums here?

Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9604492&postcount=638) PC? Burrow and rise from beneath the earth to swallow your foes or bite them in half.

Minotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10295137&postcount=275)? It'd totally be worth it for that one moment you headbutt an enemy off a cliff or through a window.

Ogre Magi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11305637#post11305637)? Sling raw elemental magics around like a fighter swings a sword.

Monstrous Spider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10404448&postcount=542)? More web tricks than you can shake a Rod of Wonders at.

[Bard for Kicks]

er...have you heard of a race called Sharn? they are way to go if you want power.

Forgotten Realms-Anauroch p156

[Metahuman1]

Might I suggest if multiyclassing is an option, this would be the absolute best time (And probably only.) time Pun-Pun might be just the thing to bring to the game? :smallamused:

[Dancingdeath]

Give the Tarrasque 5 levels of berbarian, when he levels start him in frenzied berserker. Destroy the world.:smallbiggrin:

[Bard for Kicks]

Might I suggest if multiyclassing is an option, this would be the absolute best time (And probably only.) time Pun-Pun might be just the thing to bring to the game? :smallamused:

Actually. I've tried to test out PunPun with some changes to the original build. It won't be good at ECL5...that is before he gets all powerful, i think.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human Cleric 5 starting out, final build goes Cleric 6/ Divine Oracle 4/ Contemplative 10. Your starting domains are Winter (Frostburn) and Pestilence (Spell Compendium).

Two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm): Noncombatant and Shaky.

Feats: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell, Extra Turning, and Brutal Throw (Complete Adventurer), Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion)*.

Items:
Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC), 4,410 gp. As per the sidebar on page 282 of the DMG, they can only be used of a Cleric of your alignment with a minimum of 8 ranks in Concentration, which reduces their cost by 30% and 10% respectively.

Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend (DMG), 1,890 gp. Same as above, only usable by a Cleric of your alignment with 8 ranks in Concentration, cost is reduced by 30% and 10%.

Chain Shirt (100 gp), Tower Shield (30 gp), Spiked Gauntlet (5 gp), 565 gp remaining for other gear such as holy symbols (get a lot, they're easy to destroy), rations, bags, rope, etc.

Ability scores should be Wis > Con > Dex > Cha > Int > Str.

*Background: You visited the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel, and made the Int check to gain Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion) without spending a feat on it. Your total expenses for making the journey outside of play totaled 2,000 gp.

For the past twenty-something years your character has been infected with the Festering Anger disease, detailed in the Book of Vile Darkness. Due to your Pestilence domain, you do not suffer any drawbacks of having this disease. Every day that you have been infected with it, you've gained a cumulative +2 Str bonus. Your Strength score should be in the neighborhood of fifteen thousand.

Every day, you should use DMM: Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor on just yourself, to get Fast Healing 1 all day. You should prepare Obscuring Snow twice, and Snowsight and Extended Snowsight in your 1st and 2nd level domain slots, both spells are in Frostburn. Cast those with the Lesser Rod of Extend for 20 hours per day of completely one-sided fights.

[Siosilvar]

Actually. I've tried to test out PunPun with some changes to the original build. It won't be good at ECL5...that is before he gets all powerful, i think.

The latest Pun-Pun is a level 1 Kobold paladin. That fits well under your ECL5 limit.

[Morithias]

If it is a "be killed or be killed" world. You need tank. Take a warforged and give it the trollblooded feat. Then later on take levels in Warforged Juggernaut. Once you're done that, you're immune to practically everything but fire and acid, so get your cleric and druid friends to cast some energy immunity (level 6 spell, spell compendium 24 hour duration) spells on you. Then go to town and smash up the dungeon.

[Bard for Kicks]

The latest Pun-Pun is a level 1 Kobold paladin. That fits well under your ECL5 limit.

Wow really? Do you know where I might find it? I googled it and couldn't find it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wow really? Do you know where I might find it? I googled it and couldn't find it.

Max your Kn: Planes check (2 ranks, Skill Focus, high Int) so you know about Pazuzu. Say his name three times, and he appears to grant you a Wish. He always fulfills the desires of lawful/good in his efforts to corrupt them. Wish for a LE Candle of Invocation, use it to Gate in an Efreet. Tell it that if it grants your first two Wishes favorably, you'll spend your third Wish on its behalf. Wish for another LE Candle of Invocation, you have one Wish remaining. Wish Cascade to Pun-Pun.

[Gobidobo]

Very good, but you haven't given us anything to work with. We get a lot of posts like these. Any idea about what sort of character you want to play ?:smallconfused:
Melee, Ranged, Skillmonkey, Arcanist, Diviner Caster, ..., Basket Weaver ?

Grr. I spent all afternoon typing up responses for everyone & then my computer had a brain fart & rebooted itself. :smallmad: lol

I apologize for not being more specific in my initial post. I left it open, intentionally, because I didn't want to limit the responses or stifle people's creativity. I also tried to be specific about the rules & just wanted to see what folks came up with. :) Someone may come up with something that I never would have thought of in a million years, that isn't something I would normally pick.. Y'know what I mean?

In general, I like to play Evil, sneaky characters. Gaming is one way of relieving stress for me, so if I get to rip stuff to shreds, beat the heck out of stuff or blast something to little bits, then it makes me happy & I feel like I have accomplished something. lol I also sorta suck at playing goody two shoes characters. I was forced to in one campaign, and I ended up having 2 pot head druids that were so stoned that they were oblivious to everything going on around them. Think: Alan's son & his friend from Two and a half men, times 100. One of the characters was so out of it that he tried to take the crown off of an elven king's head. LOL :smallbiggrin: My group still laughs about that & it happened several years ago!



Also, how much $$$ to spend on gear? When you say "single-class (no gestalt)", do you mean just "no gestalt" or no multiclassing at all?

Well.. I was teasing the GM & said I wanted to play a Mary Sue. He read the description & gave me the OK to play one. Mary Sue starts with unlimited funds.. So I am assuming that it's that way with anything else. Now, in regards to the Mary Sue.. I was just teasing, but he did seriously give the OK to play one & he thought it would be hilarious, because one member of our party tends to like to make "god-like" characters all the time anyway.. lol But I wanted to see what other folks could come up with & I don't seriously have any intention of playing one.

Just figure you can spend however much you want to, on whatever you want to. :)

In regards to what I meant about the classes.. I meant that the character can only have one class. No multi-classing. No gestalt. No templates. For example, I could play a Time Dragon Time Lord... I could play a Murloc Water Bender..

The GM said I could play a Parasite, Tsochar, as well as a Goa'uld/Tok'Ra or anything along those lines. Those things are capable of possessing other beings.. So you get their stats + whatever race they're inhabiting. :smallwink: :smallbiggrin: That's not really a template or multi-classing, since it's the parasite/goa'uld/tsochar that is being played.

hope that clarifies. :)


Well, I mean, if homebrew is okay, then I'd say the Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior) is probably a decent bet. I mean, it sacrifices a lot of power for flavor, but still worth a look.

I have played something similar before & it was pretty fun! :) Thank you for your suggestion!



elven generalist domain wizard sounds like the way to go, if unfair power really doesn't matter.

also, it's not quite clear in the post: does the character's ECL have to be 5, or can you take 5 class levels regardless of race?

you'll have low hp but pixies are pretty rockin. Great built in defensive abilities, and enough stat increases to do pretty much anything.

another combo I've wanted to try is a warlock (one of the few classes that can easily use their powers while incorporeal) ghost with levels in master of the unseen hand. This class gets ripped on, but that has to do with the loss of spellcasting: I think it might good if you stack it with a racial telekinesis.

It's not unfair power, if everyone has unfair power, is it? lol It's the whole group making ridiculous characters, so it'd fit in just fine! :D

ECL does not have to be 5. You can take 5 levels of class, regardless of the race played.

The warlock ghost sounds fun! :)


Why not go completely off the wall, and pick a monster class from the homebrew forums here?

Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9604492&postcount=638) PC? Burrow and rise from beneath the earth to swallow your foes or bite them in half.

Minotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10295137&postcount=275)? It'd totally be worth it for that one moment you headbutt an enemy off a cliff or through a window.

Ogre Magi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11305637#post11305637)? Sling raw elemental magics around like a fighter swings a sword.

Monstrous Spider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10404448&postcount=542)? More web tricks than you can shake a Rod of Wonders at.

I like that you're thinking outside of the box! :D Those sound fun. lol My favorite of the ones you listed is the Ogre Magi. lol That's just out there! :D Thanks for the great suggestions!



er...have you heard of a race called Sharn? they are way to go if you want power.

Forgotten Realms-Anauroch p156

LOL I just looked 'em up. That's hilarious. xD Thanks for the suggestion. Sharn Mary Sue. rofl :smallamused: :smallwink:


Might I suggest if multiyclassing is an option, this would be the absolute best time (And probably only.) time Pun-Pun might be just the thing to bring to the game? :smallamused:

Multi-classing is not an option. Pun Pun would have been fun! :( lol



Give the Tarrasque 5 levels of berbarian, when he levels start him in frenzied berserker. Destroy the world.:smallbiggrin:

LOL That is just too funny. What a terrible sight that would be. xD



Human Cleric 5 starting out, final build goes Cleric 6/ Divine Oracle 4/ Contemplative 10. Your starting domains are Winter (Frostburn) and Pestilence (Spell Compendium).

Two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm): Noncombatant and Shaky.

Feats: Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell, Extra Turning, and Brutal Throw (Complete Adventurer), Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion)*.

Items:
Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC), 4,410 gp. As per the sidebar on page 282 of the DMG, they can only be used of a Cleric of your alignment with a minimum of 8 ranks in Concentration, which reduces their cost by 30% and 10% respectively.

Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend (DMG), 1,890 gp. Same as above, only usable by a Cleric of your alignment with 8 ranks in Concentration, cost is reduced by 30% and 10%.

Chain Shirt (100 gp), Tower Shield (30 gp), Spiked Gauntlet (5 gp), 565 gp remaining for other gear such as holy symbols (get a lot, they're easy to destroy), rations, bags, rope, etc.

Ability scores should be Wis > Con > Dex > Cha > Int > Str.

*Background: You visited the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel, and made the Int check to gain Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion) without spending a feat on it. Your total expenses for making the journey outside of play totaled 2,000 gp.

For the past twenty-something years your character has been infected with the Festering Anger disease, detailed in the Book of Vile Darkness. Due to your Pestilence domain, you do not suffer any drawbacks of having this disease. Every day that you have been infected with it, you've gained a cumulative +2 Str bonus. Your Strength score should be in the neighborhood of fifteen thousand.

Every day, you should use DMM: Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor on just yourself, to get Fast Healing 1 all day. You should prepare Obscuring Snow twice, and Snowsight and Extended Snowsight in your 1st and 2nd level domain slots, both spells are in Frostburn. Cast those with the Lesser Rod of Extend for 20 hours per day of completely one-sided fights.

Sweet Jeezus.. LMAO... wow!!! Now that is some serious creativity!!!! What a monstrous creation! It's awesome! lol Never would have thought of that, ever! lol



The latest Pun-Pun is a level 1 Kobold paladin. That fits well under your ECL5 limit.

Have a link? lol



If it is a "be killed or be killed" world. You need tank. Take a warforged and give it the trollblooded feat. Then later on take levels in Warforged Juggernaut. Once you're done that, you're immune to practically everything but fire and acid, so get your cleric and druid friends to cast some energy immunity (level 6 spell, spell compendium 24 hour duration) spells on you. Then go to town and smash up the dungeon.

Oh I read a build similar to that once.. Except they didn't have a druid or cleric to cast energy immunity, they used rings & since it is a metal creature, they made it part of their body, so the rings couldn't be removed. Pretty wicked idea, though! Good job! :D



Max your Kn: Planes check (2 ranks, Skill Focus, high Int) so you know about Pazuzu. Say his name three times, and he appears to grant you a Wish. He always fulfills the desires of lawful/good in his efforts to corrupt them. Wish for a LE Candle of Invocation, use it to Gate in an Efreet. Tell it that if it grants your first two Wishes favorably, you'll spend your third Wish on its behalf. Wish for another LE Candle of Invocation, you have one Wish remaining. Wish Cascade to Pun-Pun.

Quoted from RTGoodman

The method has actually gotten EASIER with more splatbooks, to where now it's achievable at 1st level. Vael linked the original thread (and about using Google), but here's a quick, updated breakdown (as accurately as I can remember).

Start with a Kobold Paladin 1, with ranks in Knowledge (The Planes), Skill Focus in the same, and stuff like that. Make a DC 20 or 25 (I forgot which) Knowledge (The Planes) check, which tells you about the Demon Lord Pazuzu.

Pazuzu has this nasty habit of offering free wishes to people, and ESPECIALLY to Paladins, and usually gives a Paladin the first wish free AND without an alignment hit. The thing is, it only takes calling out "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu" to summon him. Basically, once said Paladin does so, he wishes for a Candle of Invocation, which he then uses to summon an Efreeti (or whatever genie it is that can grant three wishes).

He wishes to be planeshifted to somewhere (so he can use another gate to get an "extraplanar" creature from the material plane), wishes for a way to gate in a Sarrukh (from the Serpent Kingdoms splatbook), and then commences to use its Manipulate Form ability to give himself literally every ability in the game.

Source: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-98756.html

[Snowbluff]

Incarnate3/Cleric1/MetaphysicalSpellShaper3/Dweomerkeeper10/SacredExorcist3.

Shape Soulmeld StrongHeart Vest + Bonus Essentia = 6 less ability Damage.
You can use MPS to spontaneously apply up to 6 points in MM slots without spending a thing. You can Persist for free this way.

DMM with your 2 pools of turning.

Arcane thesis a Hammer of Righteousness for damage.

Twin Spell, quicken, admixtures, Maximize, Empower.



Alternatively you can cleric for Wizard and Dweomerkeeper for Incantatrix for your very own Cindy, though MSP makes alot of Incantatrix not so good.

[Rubik]

How about a pair of dvati twins (from Dragon Compendium) with levels of the ghost savage progression? Make sure you can possess creatures with the malevolence ability. Now find two high-Str and high-Con (and high-HD) forms, and you now have two characters with really nice physical stats and immunities (note that you can inhabit other undead and constructs...such as golems). Start going into something like psion so you can do some utility stuff, while you have two sets of actions in a fight to kill stuff with. Once you get to higher levels you can start being a primary manifester, or you can simply gish it up.

[Kaveman26]

Why do I picture some bizarre D and D based college where 5,000 kobold "freshman" all sign up for Knowledge the Planes: Pazazu 101...and there is this freakishly long line of bookish kobolds all waiting in this massive audatorium where a candle of invocation is on the chalk board. Coupled with this is the graduating class where 5,000 kobolds are waiting outside an infernal office where Pazazu sits impatiently with box after box of candles and a DMV like room with dozens of efreets all waiting with their pre-filled wish forms? Anyone else with me on this?

[Gobidobo]

Why do I picture some bizarre D and D based college where 5,000 kobold "freshman" all sign up for Knowledge the Planes: Pazazu 101...and there is this freakishly long line of bookish kobolds all waiting in this massive audatorium where a candle of invocation is on the chalk board. Coupled with this is the graduating class where 5,000 kobolds are waiting outside an infernal office where Pazazu sits impatiently with box after box of candles and a DMV like room with dozens of efreets all waiting with their pre-filled wish forms? Anyone else with me on this?

LMAO... :smallbiggrin:

[Soranar]

By allowing homebrews, you make anything we come up with irrelevant since an overpowered homebrew that you make up will always be stronger than anything we come up with.

But anyway, here's a level 5 build that could be pretty efficient at that level.

Race: human
Alignment: any good

2 flaws

STATS (32 pts)

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 16
INT 14
WIS 18
CHA 8

1 Ranger Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Aberrant blood, aberrant reach, Nymph's kiss favored enemy: arcanists
2 Ranger Endurance, Intuitive attack
3 Ranger Mage slayer
4 Ranger bonus feat: Blindfight Touch of golden ice
5 Ranger favored enemy: undead

Alternate class features

Wildshape ranger: lose combat style, gain wildshape

Arcane hunter: level 1 favored enemy = anything that can cast spells

Champion of the wild: lose spellcasting, gain a bonus feat

trap expert: lose track gain trapfinding

urban companion: lose animal companion, gain familiar like creature

Wildshape into a dinosaur Fleshraker (keep a bible of other forms in case you need them, 1 to swim, 1 to fly, there are several guides about them online)

The fleshraker gives you all kind of goodies outside of his basic stats, like pounce. Intuitive strike makes your WIS affect your to hit, aberrant reach makes your range +5ft even while wildshaped.

At this level, vow of poverty is far superior to magic items that you can afford from WBL (wildling clasps are very expensive, 4000gp each, and you only get 9000 to spend on).

VoP gives you : sustenance (no need to eat or drink), endure elements, +1 to hit and damage with any weapon, +5 to armor AC

at later levels you'll get bonus feats like nemesis x2 (once for each favored enemy), exalted wildshape (which retain their SU and EX abilities) and a bunch of vows which boosts your saves

touch of golden ice is very damaging , intuitive strike lets your WIS affect your combat

Go into Master of many forms when you reach level 6 to circumvent the ranger wildshape limitations. Your familiar makes a great scout and you get no penalty if it dies (you just get another one 24 hours later and, unlike a wizard, it gets 2/3 of your hitpoints).

Your familiar makes for a great alarm system and gives you alertness on top of it. It should be pretty difficult to sneak up on you. You also get plenty of skillpoints and trapfinding which should also help you survive a dungeon on your own. You don't get UMD (since you have VoP) so you don't have to bother with a familiar that can speak, personally I recommend the hawk (spot + 16) or the rat (scent and a bunch of non flight movements).

EDIT: Just saw the unlimited funds option, that changes a lot of things, I'll come up with something else

[lord pringle]

Why do I picture some bizarre D and D based college where 5,000 kobold "freshman" all sign up for Knowledge the Planes: Pazazu 101...and there is this freakishly long line of bookish kobolds all waiting in this massive audatorium where a candle of invocation is on the chalk board. Coupled with this is the graduating class where 5,000 kobolds are waiting outside an infernal office where Pazazu sits impatiently with box after box of candles and a DMV like room with dozens of efreets all waiting with their pre-filled wish forms? Anyone else with me on this?

...Can I sig that?

[dspeyer]

Mary Sue starts with unlimited funds..

Three words, my friend: use magic device

Since scrolls have no listed weight, you can put unlimited scrolls in a handy haversack.

The highest umd score for a straight monster is probably 104 for a Great Wyrm Force Dragon. He also casts as a 36th level sorcerer, attacks at +99, breathes force for 60d12...

Putting 5 class levels on top of that is kind of silly. Factotum would help with dex-based stuff and deliver Use Psionic Device. Expert would also give upd and let you brag about using an npc class. Warblade would be nice assuming racial hit dice count 1/2 toward initiator level (left ambiguous in RAW, but generally held true). Incantrix would let you persist 9th level buffs, like shapechange (qualifying is easy).

[Soranar]

Alright so you need to hit UMD 34 to cast level 9 spells.

that means ...



10 (warlock) +
8 (8 ranks in UMD) +
8 (item familiar)+
8 (20 CHA + a belt of magnificience +6)
34 (total)

So any race with a +2 to charisma will do. I recommend lesser Aasimar for that but there are other options.

Combined that with leadership feats (hey you're Mary Sue, you don't fight directly that's what men are for) and you're set. You cast like a level 9 wizard/sorcerer/cleric, you have cohorts of higher level than you are who also have cohorts.

[Amechra]

Ummm... did your DM say 5 CLASS LEVELS, or did he say ECL 5?

Because ECL 5 would be 5 HD with no LA at all...

Question, is the "no multiclassing" rule enforced if you have completed every level of a class?

Because if so, may I suggest a Mindstealer Drone (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1925.0)?

(Yes, that is a real monster. They are creepy as hell.)

[Kumori]

Alright so you need to hit UMD 34 to cast level 9 spells.

that means ...



10 (warlock) +
8 (8 ranks in UMD) +
8 (item familiar)+
8 (20 CHA + a belt of magnificience +6)
34 (total)

So any race with a +2 to charisma will do. I recommend lesser Aasimar for that but there are other options.

Combined that with leadership feats (hey you're Mary Sue, you don't fight directly that's what men are for) and you're set. You cast like a level 9 wizard/sorcerer/cleric, you have cohorts of higher level than you are who also have cohorts.

If 34 is the target for UMD, with unlimited funds anyone can do it easily. 90,000 gp for a +30 competence bonus item plus four ranks. Done. If you have a cha bonus/penalty, adjust ranks accordingly.

I would so badly abuse the unlimited money thing.... Level 5 Human Commoner with every beneficial possession in the multiverse!

[Urpriest]

It seems kind of odd that you've got essentially no restrictions besides "no multiclassing" (which is silly anyway. there's a viable sense in which every character is multiclassed, they just lost their initial racial hit die upon leveling up). Anyway, that rule and the template rule suggests that there is an overarching intent to the campaign that we should probably be aware of. So where do those rules come from?

[grarrrg]

Well, I mean, if homebrew is okay, then I'd say the Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior) is probably a decent bet. I mean, it sacrifices a lot of power for flavor, but still worth a look.

Lightning Warrior is a horrible idea.
It doesn't even get a familiar!

[Kumori]

Ooh! Ring of 'I Win'. You can buy a custom epic ring which continuously empowers with with whatever you can conceive out of the Epic Spellcasting feat. Remember, you don't have to actually cast the spell so the Spellcraft DC could be nigh infinite, and the spell could feature a multitude of effects.

One ring to rule them all...

[Metahuman1]

Another though. Take a Big T monster progression that doesn't feature 20 lvls of progression, then tack some spell casting on it. That's right. Spell casting, to get around those pesky weaknesses that the creature has. Like no protection form ability score damage/drain or not having flight or movement issues.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Multi-classing is not an option. Pun Pun would have been fun! :( lol


...At the bottom of your post, you quoted how it can be attained as single-classed level 1 paladin.

Edit: Oh. Something after the paladin. Well, you could just be a lawful good crusader or something.

[Slipperychicken]

No wealth limits? Remember to make all your items unslotted and continuous/at-will. Nigh-infinite Luck Blades to reroll everything. +159 item of diplomacy, so you can talk monsters into becoming your fanatics with a full-round action. At-will item of Greater Celerity so you can knock that down to an Immediate Action. Items of the craziest Epic spells you can think of. Initiate of Mystra (feat, requires Cleric 3, items to pump your CL to make the check), keep your effects on inside your own two dozen overlapping AMFs.

[Gobidobo]

Ummm... did your DM say 5 CLASS LEVELS, or did he say ECL 5?

Because ECL 5 would be 5 HD with no LA at all...

Question, is the "no multiclassing" rule enforced if you have completed every level of a class?

Because if so, may I suggest a Mindstealer Drone (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1925.0)?

(Yes, that is a real monster. They are creepy as hell.)

As far as I know, he doesn't care what the ECL is.. I talked to him about it for a few hours yesterday before I posted this thread & just spent around 8 hours with my group & we were all talking about various characters & I showed everyone this thread & he didn't say no to anything anyone presented thus far.. Mainly just laughed at all the stuff everyone was throwing out there & thought it'd be hilarious. He got a big kick out of your guys' creativity :D The only thing he wasn't really keen on was pun pun & the Tarrasque... xD

He will just nerf it or find a work around, but he's not really opposed anything anyone's thrown at him, yet-- He laughed his butt off at the Cleric with the 15000+ Str. & said I could play it LOL

In regards to the no multi-classing thing.. It's just supposed to be a level 5 character. He hasn't said that we couldn't take other classes later... But at level 5, we can only be a single class.

The Mind Stealer Drone looks pretty neat! Thank you for the suggestion! :D




It seems kind of odd that you've got essentially no restrictions besides "no multiclassing" (which is silly anyway. there's a viable sense in which every character is multiclassed, they just lost their initial racial hit die upon leveling up). Anyway, that rule and the template rule suggests that there is an overarching intent to the campaign that we should probably be aware of. So where do those rules come from?

The only things we know about the campaign the GM is running is that it's a kill or be killed, all out, balls to the wall kinda dungeon crawl.. The objective is to get as much treasure as possible in the dungeon and to get to the end of it first, so that you are the sole winner of a bunch of cash & whatever else it is he wants to give you (don't know what it is, yet). It is a race kind of thing. Amazing Race & Survivor meets D&D Dungeon Crawl. xD It is being run by a hackmaster type GM... The PC's don't have to actually form a party together & we will all likely be flying solo, unless we have multiple characters... The group is accustomed to playing evil characters.

The GM thought it would be easier if we all just started out as a single-classed level 5 character. Lately, we've been gaming with characters that have a butt load of templates and that are multi-classed. It's just to change things up from what we've been doing the past year or so. He didn't say that we couldn't add other levels in something else as the character progresses.. Only that our level 5's should be single-classed.

Hope that helped a little?


...At the bottom of your post, you quoted how it can be attained as single-classed level 1 paladin.

Edit: Oh. Something after the paladin. Well, you could just be a lawful good crusader or something.

Yeah.. That was after I googled & found it myself. :)


No wealth limits? Remember to make all your items unslotted and continuous/at-will. Nigh-infinite Luck Blades to reroll everything. +159 item of diplomacy, so you can talk monsters into becoming your fanatics with a full-round action. At-will item of Greater Celerity so you can knock that down to an Immediate Action. Items of the craziest Epic spells you can think of. Initiate of Mystra (feat, requires Cleric 3, items to pump your CL to make the check), keep your effects on inside your own two dozen overlapping AMFs.

lol :smalltongue: Why not just build a thrallherd? lol

[nedz]

No wealth limits - at level 5 ?
You just need some hirelings: Level 20 Wizard ought to solve most issues, but why not have two ?

[Gobidobo]

No wealth limits - at level 5 ?
You just need some hirelings: Level 20 Wizard ought to solve most issues, but why not have two ?

LOL That's funny

I am pretty sure the GM would say no to that. I need to be able to play the character & they have to be level 5.. That was pretty clever, though! :)

[Wavelab]

Well you would probably need something that could last as long as possible, so spellcasters seem to be out of the picture.

How about a warforged warlock or binder? You can technically go on forever and ever, giving you an advantage above the rest of the party. Just let your warlock hide in darkness(which you keep recasting) until everyone is dead. :smallcool:

[Snowbluff]

Well you would probably need something that could last as long as possible, so spellcasters seem to be out of the picture.

How about a warforged warlock or binder? You can technically go on forever and ever, giving you an advantage above the rest of the party. Just let your warlock hide in darkness(which you keep recasting) until everyone is dead. :smallcool:

Yeah, and there is some good feats for that in DotU that'll let you HiPS in Darkness, see through Darkness, etc.

[erikun]

Black Ethergaunt Wizard 5. Say hello to 23th level wizard spellcasting, +20 INT, immunity to arcane spells, and a bunch of other fun stuff. Ignoring RHD and LA is absolutely insane fun!

There are several other good choices if you get to ignore RHD/LA. Rakshasa (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rakshasa.htm) are 7th level sorcerers. Lillend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lillend.htm) is a 6th level bard. Unbodied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm) are 4th level Psions. The last one is a good setup for the Thrallherd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm) prestige class, if you plan on going that route.

[nedz]

Well I was thinking maybe Fiend of Possession. Its a 6 level PrC from FF (p204), technically 3.0 - but its easy to port.
Obviously you're not going to be allowed to start as one, which is a bit of a shame since their first level class ability allows them to possess an object - thus rendering them hidden from the rest of the PCs. The standard trick is to take Leadership at level 6 to acquire a 'mount', whom your fellow PCs mistake to be your character: invaluable in an evil party.
Anyway - to qualify: the hard bit is you have to be an outsider with the Evil subtype, then you need Will +5 plus 6 ranks in Hide and Know(Arc). Will +5 is easy with multiclassing, but is late entry without.
Basically you get to hide out on the ethereal posessing objects. You get to change the enchantment on the item as you like, even cursing them. Later you can animate and control objects before finally being able to possess and control creatures.

[Rubik]

Well I was thinking maybe Fiend of Possession. Its a 6 level PrC from FF (p204), technically 3.0 - but its easy to port.
Obviously you're not going to be allowed to start as one, which is a bit of a shame since their first level class ability allows them to possess an object - thus rendering them hidden from the rest of the PCs. The standard trick is to take Leadership at level 6 to acquire a 'mount', whom your fellow PCs mistake to be your character: invaluable in an evil party.
Anyway - to qualify: the hard bit is you have to be an outsider with the Evil subtype, then you need Will +5 plus 6 ranks in Hide and Know(Arc). Will +5 is easy with multiclassing, but is late entry without.
Basically you get to hide out on the ethereal posessing objects. You get to change the enchantment on the item as you like, even cursing them. Later you can animate and control objects before finally being able to possess and control creatures.You can possess people sooner than that. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) The ghost template gives you access to possession, after all. You don't even need to take all the levels if you don't want, so you can grab a regular class level and a few levels of ghost and go for it.

[dspeyer]

Anyway - to qualify: the hard bit is you have to be an outsider with the Evil subtype, then you need Will +5 plus 6 ranks in Hide and Know(Arc). Will +5 is easy with multiclassing, but is late entry without.

Any outsider of at least 4hd will have will+5. And Hide as a class skill can come from Martial Study(Shadow Hand) and Knowledge(Arcana) from Educated. Meeting those prereqs without class levels is easy.

But you might as well stick with Balor.

[Frog Dragon]

Do an Incarnate Dustform loop.

Basically, you pick whatever as a race. Then you apply the Dustform template (Sandstorm). It has constitution and intelligence as nonabilities, but has a listed LA for some reason. It happens to conveniently to be +2

Then you pick Savage Species, and apply the Incarnate Construct template. It has LA -2 (minimum 0). You are now eligible for Dustform again.

Apply Dustform and Incarnate in sequence as many times as you want.

Your strength is as high as you want it to be, though your dexterity is 3. Enjoy.

[nedz]

Any outsider of at least 4hd will have will+5. And Hide as a class skill can come from Martial Study(Shadow Hand) and Knowledge(Arcana) from Educated. Meeting those prereqs without class levels is easy.

But you might as well stick with Balor.

You need 6 Outsider RHD for +5 Will, which is the same for any class with good will saves. Multiclassing can get this with X 2/Y 1 provided both classes X and Y have good will saves: this is 3 levels earlier. The skills are a fairly easy pre-req to meet and where never really the issue.

[Gobidobo]

Do an Incarnate Dustform loop.

Basically, you pick whatever as a race. Then you apply the Dustform template (Sandstorm). It has constitution and intelligence as nonabilities, but has a listed LA for some reason. It happens to conveniently to be +2

Then you pick Savage Species, and apply the Incarnate Construct template. It has LA -2 (minimum 0). You are now eligible for Dustform again.

Apply Dustform and Incarnate in sequence as many times as you want.

Your strength is as high as you want it to be, though your dexterity is 3. Enjoy.

Unfortunately, templates are not allowed. :smallsigh: :smallfrown:

[Snowbluff]

Unfortunately, templates are not allowed. :smallsigh: :smallfrown:

Isn't there an item that gives the Dark Template? Are template-granting items allowed? :smallconfused:

[Zombulian]

Chicken. Infested. Commoner.
Arcane Gnome.
Use magic device as a class skill always... and infinite chickens. Do what you will.

[Snowbluff]

Chicken. Infested. Commoner.
Arcane Gnome.
Use magic device as a class skill always... and infinite chickens. Do what you will.

Iaijutsu Chicken Infested commoner. Also Quick Draw, since drawing a Chicken instead of that Wand of Magic Missile you need.

[Zombulian]

Make sure to pick up a spell component bag for the free action drawing of components (ie: absurd amounts of chickens.) Iajutsu can't be attained unless you do some shenanigans that usually include multi-classing :smallsigh:.
Wands of Animate Dead, go for the exploding undead feats from Libris Mortis!

[Snowbluff]

Make sure to pick up a spell component bag for the free action drawing of components (ie: absurd amounts of chickens.) Iajutsu can't be attained unless you do some shenanigans that usually include multi-classing :smallsigh:.
Wands of Animate Dead, go for the exploding undead feats from Libris Mortis!

If you go Arcane Gnome, no, but a Human Paragon can take it, or a Generic Class with Skill Knowledge can get both UMD and IF as permanent skills IIRC.

[Zombulian]

If you go Arcane Gnome, no, but a Human Paragon can take it, or a Generic Class with Skill Knowledge can get both UMD and IF as permanent skills IIRC.

But then you don't get chickens! :smalleek:

[Ason]

Race: Beholder
Class: Beholder Mage 5

It's not nearly as powerful as Pun-Pun, but Beholder Mage (Lords of Madness, I believe) is still fun for everyone.

[VarianArdell]

I would suggest an awakened Neutronium Golem (from the Immortals Handbook -- Epic Bestiary, Volume 1)... class is unimportant at this point, methinks >.<

[Snowbluff]

But then you don't get chickens! :smalleek:

you only need to dip once for the Chickens and then again for the skills :smalltongue:

[Zombulian]

you only need to dip once for the Chickens and then again for the skills :smalltongue:

You can't dip if there's no multiclassing :smallfurious:

[Snowbluff]

You can't dip if there's no multiclassing :smallfurious:

You're right, sack of flower!

[Gobidobo]

LOL! You guys are so clever! xD I love reading all the things you come up with! :smallbiggrin:

I love the chicken idea.. lmao :smallbiggrin: :smallamused:

Beholder Mage would be fun! :)

If he wouldn't let me play a Tarrasque, he won't let me play a Neutronium Golem. lol

I want to play something that has a few challenges, so fights are fun. I don't want to play pun pun or a mary sue. I really just wanted to make one person in the group irritated, because they always play "god-like" characters that overpower everyone else & it gets irritating (for everyone). I've put up with it for 5 years.. I just wanted to have a little fun myself. lol The cleric that Biffoniacus_Furiou came up with is more like what I was wanting. I did actually roll that character up & the aforementioned member of the group already wanted me to nerf it :smallannoyed: so that it has a Strength of 1,000, instead of 15,000+. sigh... but the GM didn't say I had to do that. :smallbiggrin:

[Gobidobo]

Isn't there an item that gives the Dark Template? Are template-granting items allowed? :smallconfused:

lol if you are clever enough to find a work around, i don't see why not! :) this GM likes it when we are creative & if you find a template granting item, i don't see why you couldn't have it. lol that's too funny. i wouldn't have thought of that.

i'm starting to realize that i seriously need to buy more books, so i can know these cool things you guys do. lol :smallcool:

[Rubik]

lol if you are clever enough to find a work around, i don't see why not! :) this GM likes it when we are creative & if you find a template granting item, i don't see why you couldn't have it. lol that's too funny. i wouldn't have thought of that.

i'm starting to realize that i seriously need to buy more books, so i can know these cool things you guys do. lol :smallcool:In Tome of Magic there's the collar of umbral metamorphosis which gives you the dark template (and the greater version gives it to you constantly rather than for X min/day).

[Snowbluff]

lol if you are clever enough to find a work around, i don't see why not! :) this GM likes it when we are creative & if you find a template granting item, i don't see why you couldn't have it. lol that's too funny. i wouldn't have thought of that.

i'm starting to realize that i seriously need to buy more books, so i can know these cool things you guys do. lol :smallcool:

Oh, there is an item from Tome of Magic called the Collar Umbral Metamorphosis. The continuous variant costs 22kgp, which also acts as a nice precedent for making other template items. It grants the Dark template (normally a +1 adjustment), which give Hide in Plain Sight when under the cover of shadow (Warlock's Darkness invocation,anyone?) , and some sweet skill bonuses, like Hide. These stack with other racial bonuses, like a Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) who has +4 racial and +4 size bonus.

[Gobidobo]

Oh, there is an item from Tome of Magic called the Collar Umbral Metamorphosis. The continuous variant costs 22kgp, which also acts as a nice precedent for making other template items. It grants the Dark template (normally a +1 adjustment), which give Hide in Plain Sight when under the cover of shadow (Warlock's Darkness invocation,anyone?) , and some sweet skill bonuses, like Hide. These stack with other racial bonuses, like a Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) who has +4 racial and +4 size bonus.

sounds very interesting! *heads over to amazon to buy the book* lol :) thank you! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin: