A New Look at Fatigue-Based Casting

[Ziegander]

Spellcasting (Ex): A Spellcaster+ may be capable of harnessing phenomenal cosmic power, but he must do so through the refracting lens of his own body and soul. A spellcaster may only cast or concentrate on spells for a total number of rounds each day equal to three times the total of his caster level + his Constitution modifier. If a spellcaster spends any fraction of his round casting or concentrating on a spell, including a free action, then he spends one of these rounds. Using spell-trigger or spell-completion items also spends rounds from this total. If a spellcaster is able to cast multiple spells in a single round, then he only spends one of these rounds regardless of how many spells he casts in that round. If a spellcaster is able to concentrate on multiple spells in a single round, then he spends one of these rounds for each spell he concentrates on in that round.

At the end of the spellcaster's turn, if he did not cast or concentrate on any spells that turn, and if he didn't use any spell-trigger or spell-completion items that turn, he becomes Fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the number of consecutive rounds before his turn that he spent casting spells, concentrating on spells, using spell-trigger items, or using spell-completion items.

A spellcaster that is Fatigued suffers a -2 penalty to caster level in addition to the normal penalties. A spellcaster can cause his own Fatigued condition to stack with itself to become the Exhausted condition for the same number of rounds. A spellcaster that is Exhausted cannot cast spells in addition to the normal penalties.

A spellcaster that is immune to Fatigue and/or Exhaustion, or who has any abilities that reduce the severity of the Fatigued and/or Exhausted condition(s) is immune to, or reduces the severity of, all standard applications of Fatigue and/or Exhaustion, but is not immune to spellcasting-based Fatigue and/or Exhaustion, nor can that spellcaster benefit from abilities that reduce the severity of spellcasting-based Fatigued and/or Exhausted condition(s).

A spellcaster that has spent half or more of his total rounds of spellcasting per day is Fatigued until he receives 8 hours of complete rest. A spellcaster that has spent all of his total rounds of spellcasting per day is Exhausted until he receives 8 hours of complete rest.

+ - Defined as Adept, Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Warmage, Wu Jen, Sublime Chord (PrC), Favored Soul, Shugenja, Spirit Shaman, Blighter (PrC), Divine Champion (PrC), Ur-Priest (PrC), Healer, Apostle of Peace (PrC), Archivist, Dread Necromancer, and Beguiler.

~~~

So what do you think?

Using these rules, I think it might also be a good idea to rule that:

A) The spellcaster must Concentrate on all non-instantaneous spells for every round of their duration.

B) For any non-instantaneous spells with a duration listed in increments longer than rounds, each increment counts as only 1 round (so a spell with a duration of 10 minutes per caster level would require Concentration during every round of that duration, but would cost only 1 round of his total spellcasting per day for each 10 minute increment).

and C) A spellcaster may Concentrate on a number of spells at a time up to his Constitution modifier.

[NeoSeraphi]

This is interesting. I'm actually playing an enchanter wizard in the Dragonlance campaign setting right now, and apparently the setting has a Mage's Curse which functions similar to this, except that when I cast a spell, I have to make a Fortitude save (DC 10+spell level) or be fatigued, which then turns to exhaustion, and then unconsciousness.

This is admittedly less restrictive, but it definitely hampers a wizard who has been novaing.

Seems pretty harsh for paladins and rangers and other casters with a reduced caster level, but it works pretty well for the 9th users.

[Ziegander]

This is interesting. I'm actually playing an enchanter wizard in the Dragonlance campaign setting right now, and apparently the setting has a Mage's Curse which functions similar to this, except that when I cast a spell, I have to make a Fortitude save (DC 10+spell level) or be fatigued, which then turns to exhaustion, and then unconsciousness.

This is admittedly less restrictive, but it definitely hampers a wizard who has been novaing.

For a little more restriction, see my edits since your post. You're now Fatigued after you use half or more of your total rounds per day, and you have to Concentrate on all spells with a non-instantaneous duration.

I wanted these rules to be a real thing that spellcasters have to keep track of, something to emulate a "stamina-casting" mechanic, and I think I've done an okay job of it.

It's interesting, I was thinking of mechanics for a sort of overtly magical Warblade meets Warlock melee class, and then I recalled Pathfinder's handling of Rage, turning it into rounds per day, and I thought that concept worked pretty well as a "stamina" mechanic. So then, I thought, why not use it as the basis of a new Fatigue-Based casting model and see where that takes me?


Seems pretty harsh for paladins and rangers and other casters with a reduced caster level, but it works pretty well for the 9th users.

Now this is something that definitely slipped my mind in writing these rules. I suppose if one used these rules that something special would definitely have to be done with half-casters, Bards, Duskblades, and the like. Or, to turn it around, perhaps this is a special restriction applied only to full, 9th-level casting, spellcasters.

[NeoSeraphi]

I wanted these rules to be a real thing that spellcasters have to keep track of, something to emulate a "stamina-casting" mechanic, and I think I've done an okay job of it.

It's interesting, I was thinking of mechanics for a sort of overtly magical Warblade meets Warlock melee class, and then I recalled Pathfinder's handling of Rage, turning it into rounds per day, and I thought that concept worked pretty well as a "stamina" mechanic. So then, I thought, why not use it as the basis of a new Fatigue-Based casting model and see where that takes me?

Well it certainly works.



Now this is something that definitely slipped my mind in writing these rules. I suppose if one used these rules that something special would definitely have to be done with half-casters, Bards, Duskblades, and the like. Or, to turn it around, perhaps this is a special restriction applied only to full, 9th-level casting, spellcasters.

Well, bards and duskblades don't have a reduced caster level, so it's not nearly as bad for them as it is for the others. But yeah, perhaps you'd best limit it to the full effect for 9ths, and maybe only fatigue for bards and duskblades, then nothing for people with less spellcasting than that?

How does this affect SLAs, by the way? Suddenly the warlock and the dragonfire adept's at will abilities seem pretty dangerous...

[Ziegander]

Well, bards and duskblades don't have a reduced caster level, so it's not nearly as bad for them as it is for the others. But yeah, perhaps you'd best limit it to the full effect for 9ths, and maybe only fatigue for bards and duskblades, then nothing for people with less spellcasting than that?

I'm thinking these rules should just have no effect whatsoever on classes that neither use vancian casting nor cast spells higher than 7th level.


How does this affect SLAs, by the way? Suddenly the warlock and the dragonfire adept's at will abilities seem pretty dangerous...

Again, these rules would have no effect on a Warlock or DFA. I don't know why you'd consider those classes "dangerous" with these rules in effect. They're high Tier 4/low Tier 3.

The only classes these rules should apply to are Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Warmage, Wu Jen, Favored Soul, Shugenja, Spirit Shaman, Healer, Archivist, Dread Necromancer, and Beguiler (I think that's all the 9th level spell full casters anyway). And let's go ahead and say they apply Adepts as well.

[NeoSeraphi]

Again, these rules would have no effect on a Warlock or DFA. I don't know why you'd consider those classes "dangerous" with these rules in effect. They're high Tier 4/low Tier 3.

Dangerous to the caster. The at-will abilities would be offset by stacking fatigue and exhaustion time ontop of yourself. But I'm glad to know it won't be affecting them.



The only classes these rules should apply to are Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Warmage, Wu Jen, Favored Soul, Shugenja, Spirit Shaman, Healer, Archivist, Dread Necromancer, and Beguiler (I think that's all the 9th level spell full casters anyway). And let's go ahead and say they apply Adepts as well.

The healer? Really? That seems a tad excessive.

[Steward]

Would you apply these rules to monsters that can cast spells 'as a cleric' or 'as a wizard'?

[Ziegander]

Would you apply these rules to monsters that can cast spells 'as a cleric' or 'as a wizard'?

Definitely.

As an aside, I've lowered the total number of rounds of spellcasting per day from 4 x (CL + Con mod) to 3 x (CL + Con mod). I've also specified that a spellcaster cannot be immune to Fatigue/Exhaustion.

[NeoSeraphi]

As an aside, I've lowered the total number of rounds of spellcasting per day from 4 x (CL + Con mod) to 3 x (CL + Con mod). I've also specified that a spellcaster cannot be immune to Fatigue/Exhaustion.

That...brings up some weird issues though. How does a lich become exhausted? And even if the lich is exhausted, it's immune to penalties to its physical ability scores, so I guess the exhaustion would just be can't charge or run and moves at half speed?

[Ziegander]

That...brings up some weird issues though. How does a lich become exhausted?

The channeling of spell power takes a heavy toll even on the Undead.

EDIT: I am probably going to change the wording so that if a spellcaster is immune to Fatigue/Exhaustion, or has an ability that reduces the severity of Fatigue/Exhaustion, then that spellcaster is immune to or reduces all standard applications of the Fatigued or Exhausted conditions, but still suffers Fatigue/Exhaustion from spellcasting.


And even if the lich is exhausted, it's immune to penalties to its physical ability scores, so I guess the exhaustion would just be can't charge or run and moves at half speed?

Well, that and the Lich loses its ability to cast spells while Exhausted. Which is the point.

[Steward]

The channeling of spell power takes a heavy toll even on the Undead.

EDIT: I am probably going to change the wording so that if a spellcaster is immune to Fatigue/Exhaustion, or has an ability that reduces the severity of Fatigue/Exhaustion, then that spellcaster is immune to or reduces all standard applications of the Fatigued or Exhausted conditions, but still suffers Fatigue/Exhaustion from spellcasting.



Well, that and the Lich loses its ability to cast spells while Exhausted. Which is the point.

I like it. Though I think certain creatures -- mostly outsiders, intelligent undead, and fey, should have an increased capacity (derived from race/type) than most mortals, not for balance but to emphasize their unnatural nature (they can keep going for quite a bit after a 'real' creature would be exhausted or unconscious) and/or their closer nature to magic as a whole (it's not quite right for mortals to use their bodies as refracting lens for magic, but a planetar or a lich finds it somewhat easier. All three may eventually get exhausted, but not quite as fast.)

[Ragingsystem]

Wow, this looks perfect for an E6 gestalt game I want to run. It's a very gritty setting and I think limiting casters in this way is a great idea for my setting. Especially because all of the PC's have to have one class be a Spell casting class.