Is There an Indestructible Build Not Ruined By Searing Spell [3.5]

[kulosle]

So I'm looking for a way to get a mailman to waste a lot of spells in one fight. So I thought of making an indestructible build/ As far as I can tell, all of the indestructible builds out there die as soon as someone casts a searing spell, because the only way to gain damage immunity is through regeneration, energy immunity, and immunity to nonlethal damage. But all of the ways there are to gain regeneration make it so that you are vulnerable to fire. Has anyone found a way around this? Most people say it's not an issue because your only taking half damage, and with fast healing and a lot of hit points you can shrug it off, but not against a mailman build and not if you are trying to do it via the wizard route. I've also seen it's said that it's best to just go with a high touch AC but once again a mailman kills you.

[Circle of Life]

War Troll + Immunity to Acid + Veil of Undeath (or similar).

Should be enough.

[nedz]

Would adding Incorporeal help ?
Ethereal would, but thats probably too self limiting.

[candycorn]

Crystalline Troll has regeneration bypassed by Sonic.

Persisted Delay Death will make the damage irrelevant, along with Beastland Ferocity. Just have a way to make your eventual death irrelevant, or to heal a LOT. I like contingency Revivify.

And it is possible to out-HP a searing spell mailman. You just need a LOT of HP. I could get, at level 13, about 81,000 bonus from Con. That'd likely last you a while, at least.

Alternately, a high enough touch AC will protect you.

Evasion + touch AC 70 or higher + good reflex save.

[peacenlove]

AFB ATM so I don't remember specifics.

Some creatures (golems and a lizard thing in the forgotten realms) are healed by fire instead of damaged, and this is explicitly not immunity or resistance.
(Improved) mettle and (improved) evasion should help because orb of fire has a save so it is affected by mettle.
The shadowcaster mysteries Dancing shadows (100% untargetability unless they have true seeing, Darkstalker solves almost all non visual means of detection) and echo spell should prove lethal to a mailman. Especially potent coupled with Shadow Weave Magic and it's child feats, which you CAN take according to a Web enhancement.

EDIT: Maybe AC 70 would seem difficult to reach, however a 2nd level spell, scintillating scales, converts natural armor to deflection. Add a full plate or thaalud stone plate if you have enough strength with the psionic feat from RoS that converts armor bonuses to deflection and you are much closer to your goal.

[kulosle]

Sorry if it sounds like i'm being difficult but i'm just going off how I play mailman.

War troll takes up too many levels. And would need a buddy wizard to do all the spell buffs for him. This build should be self contained.

Incorporeal and ethereal wouldn't help because the majority of mailmans have transdimensional spell.

What book is the crystalline troll in?
Persisted Delay death sounds great.
How would one go about getting so much health?

If you could find me what book those creatures are in that would be great.
Mettle is a semi good idea, but I (but probably not most people) just use energy admixture fire on a orb of force. no save involved. But i'm still going to look into getting it.
Do those deflection bonuses say they stack with other deflection bonuses, because other wise all that would do is lower your AC.

[Hunter Killer]

The feat that peacenlove is talking about is called "Deflective Armor". It makes your Armor Bonus apply against Touch Attacks when you are Psionically Focused. It does not, however, change that bonus to Deflection. Also, Deflection Bonuses do not stack with each other.

[kulosle]

The feat that peacenlove is talking about is called "Deflective Armor". It makes your Armor Bonus apply against Touch Attacks when you are Psionically Focused. It does not, however, change that bonus to Deflection. Also, Deflection Bonuses do not stack with each other.

Ah okay. Well that's what I was wondering about because if it turned it into deflection bonus then it wouldn't help at all. The problem with this then is that you now have to add psionics into the build and I haven't heard of them ever being included in a build and I don't think it would be a good idea to subtract from caster levels, as I would like to try and do this as a spellcaster. Preferably a wizard.

[RndmNumGen]

Ah okay. Well that's what I was wondering about because if it turned it into deflection bonus then it wouldn't help at all. The problem with this then is that you now have to add psionics into the build and I haven't heard of them ever being included in a build and I don't think it would be a good idea to subtract from caster levels, as I would like to try and do this as a spellcaster. Preferably a wizard.

To gain a Psionic Focus you need at least 1 Power Point. Levels in a psionic class is probably the most efficient way to gain power points, but there are others. Playing any of the Psionic races(Dromites, Duergar, Elans, Half-Giants, Maenads, Xephs) will give you 2 PP, as will the Wild Talent feat.

[candycorn]

What book is the crystalline troll in?Monster Manual 3. Ideally, gained via shapechange.

How would one go about getting so much health?Persist a Power Leech spell (PoVD) for Constitution. Place your victim in an energy Transformation field, keyed to a greater restoration, and have something with at will SLA's spam them over and over, for free restorations on it, to keep it alive. Every round, for the course of the day, you get a +1 enhancement bonus to Con. Easiest gained via DMM (and throwing this for charisma too, and your other stats), but it'll get you a +7000 con modifier.

[Jack_Simth]

So I'm looking for a way to get a mailman to waste a lot of spells in one fight. So I thought of making an indestructible build/ As far as I can tell, all of the indestructible builds out there die as soon as someone casts a searing spell, because the only way to gain damage immunity is through regeneration, energy immunity, and immunity to nonlethal damage. But all of the ways there are to gain regeneration make it so that you are vulnerable to fire. Has anyone found a way around this? Most people say it's not an issue because your only taking half damage, and with fast healing and a lot of hit points you can shrug it off, but not against a mailman build and not if you are trying to do it via the wizard route. I've also seen it's said that it's best to just go with a high touch AC but once again a mailman kills you.
Cleric-7(or higher)/Dweomerkeeper-10 (Complete Divine Web Enhancement version).

1) Supernatural Spell (to bypass material and XP components - including the piece of the critter to be duplicated) (Miracle(Simulacrum(Aleax of a double-your-caster-level Psion(Telepath)))).
2) Have the Aleax Shapechange into a Zodar.
3) Have the Zodar use it's 1/year free Wish to create a Powerstone of True Mind Switch.
4) Have the Zodar return to normal shape.
5) Have the Telepath use the Powerstone of True Mind Switch to switch with you.

You now can't be harmed by any attack that does not originate from a creature that exists only in your own imagination (although non-attack hazards can still hurt you - such as lightning, landslides, and so on).

You can also just stop after 1 and send the Aleax against the target directly. That works just fine too, if all you want is for someone to waste their spells.

[u-b]

Persisted Delay Death...

...is a thing of the past. SpC marks the spell as immediate with close range.

[Cruiser1]

...is a thing of the past. SpC marks the spell as immediate with close range.
Apply the Ocular Spell (LoM) Metamagic feat first, so Delay Death becomes a 60 foot fixed range ray, and is valid for Persistent Spell. :smallsmile:

[Hirax]

Not everyone accepts shenanigans to make spells persistable if they're not normally able to be so normally. Further, you're still vulnerable to disjunction and dispelling. The sneakiest thing you're going to be able to do is use the shriver magical location from FC2 to gain regeneration that's bypassed only by good and lawfulchaotic aligned weapons.

[Emperor Tippy]

The easiest way to stop a Mailman's attack is a Craft Contingent Resilient Sphere set to go up around you if you would take damage/are attacked.

Sure, the Mailman can take another action to bring down the Resilient Sphere but that burns another slot and another action. And after he does your next Resilient Sphere contingency activates on his next attack.

God I love Resilient Sphere, one of the best spells in the game.

[vegetalss4]

The easiest way to stop a Mailman's attack is a Craft Contingent Resilient Sphere set to go up around you if you would take damage/are attacked.

Sure, the Mailman can take another action to bring down the Resilient Sphere but that burns another slot and another action. And after he does your next Resilient Sphere contingency activates on his next attack.

God I love Resilient Sphere, one of the best spells in the game.

Question: how do you plan to make your enemies want to get you out of the sphere given that it blocks line of effect?

[Emperor Tippy]

Question: how do you plan to make your enemies want to get you out of the sphere given that it blocks line of effect?

You have Shapechange up. Turn into a Wyrmling Force Dragon and you can simple take a 5 foot step to exit the sphere.

You can also just put up a Time Stop while inside the Sphere and then exit.

Or just teleport out of it as a move action with any number of methods.

[DoctorGlock]

the mailman relies on orbs usually which are a ranged touch. There is a spell called friendly fire which negates ranged touched, ray deflection might also work.

[nedz]

The easiest way to stop a Mailman's attack is a Craft Contingent Resilient Sphere set to go up around you if you would take damage/are attacked.
Well you do have to violate causality, but thats only a fundemental law of physics and you are a wizard.

You have Shapechange up. Turn into a Wyrmling Force Dragon and you can simple take a 5 foot step to exit the sphere.

You can also just put up a Time Stop while inside the Sphere and then exit.

Or just teleport out of it as a move action with any number of methods.
Flyby attack out and in for a standard action ?

[Urpriest]

the mailman relies on orbs usually which are a ranged touch. There is a spell called friendly fire which negates ranged touched, ray deflection might also work.

This. Friendly Fire (Exemplars of Evil) is Persistable, widely applicable, and hilarious.

[kulosle]

I wouldn't allow that trick to gain such high scores. It's kind of silly and reminds me too much of pun pun.

I thought a summoned creature can't use spells or abilities that have an exp component

Yeah persist delay death is out. Persist is broken enough without increasing the number of spells you can add so we don't allow it.

I forgot about shapechange shenanigans.

oh wow a persisted friendly fire sounds like fun.

So this guy is definitely a sorcerer.

What ways are there for preventing dispels? Spell blade is no good because there is too many different spells to dispel with. Isn't there a way of having a Anti Magic Field that moves with you but has a whole right were you stand? Could I do that and persist it?

[Hirax]

Archmage allows you to shape spells like AMF with a hole to exclude yourself, but AMFs do not block line of effect per the Rules Compendium, so that wouldn't help against targeted dispels. Depending on your cheese tolerance you could be an initiate of Mystra so you don't need to exclude yourself from the AMF, at which point your only dispelling worry is disjunction.

[Coidzor]

IIRC, the Emerald Legion of IKEA Tarrasques (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587) courtesy of JeminiZero is indestructible due to being immune to nonlethal and making fire and cold into nonlethal.

Now, if you had the searing spell equivalent for acid energy, then you might be able to poke it.

[candycorn]

I wouldn't allow that trick to gain such high scores. It's kind of silly and reminds me too much of pun pun.

I thought a summoned creature can't use spells or abilities that have an exp component

Yeah persist delay death is out. Persist is broken enough without increasing the number of spells you can add so we don't allow it.

I forgot about shapechange shenanigans.

oh wow a persisted friendly fire sounds like fun.

So this guy is definitely a sorcerer.

What ways are there for preventing dispels? Spell blade is no good because there is too many different spells to dispel with. Isn't there a way of having a Anti Magic Field that moves with you but has a whole right were you stand? Could I do that and persist it?

Best protection vs dispels is boosting your caster level.
Using a Karma Bead before casting will give +4 CL.
A Ring of Enduring Arcana will add +4 to dispel DC.
Dispelling Buffer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dispellingBuffer.htm) will add another +5 to dispel DC.

If you had all of these, at level 20, along with 5 levels of Archmage (Spell Power ability 5 times) your spell level would be 20 + 5 (archmage) +4 (karma bead), +4 (enduring Arcana), +5 (dispelling screen). Total CL = 38, meaning DC is 49 to dispel, which is impossible to get for most dispels, without additional dispel bonuses.

[Hecuba]

What ways are there for preventing dispels? Spell blade is no good because there is too many different spells to dispel with. Isn't there a way of having a Anti Magic Field that moves with you but has a whole right were you stand? Could I do that and persist it?

Yes, you can. There are two options for that: Archmage's Mastery of Shaping High Arcana or Extraordinary Spell Aim. The Archmage option is better, as Extraordinary Spell Aim is not mobile.

I'd also recommended picking up Sculpt Spell: on it's own, it can only cover 2 dimensions (using the 4 cube option), but combined with either of the above options, it doubles the covered area.

In addition, the casting time is long enough that you don't really need to persist it. You can if you're getting persist anyways, but with a caster level of 20, it lasts for 3 1/3 hours. If you have a caster level in the 30s, you can Echoing spell will make it last all day for one slot.

[nedz]

Best protection vs dispels is boosting your caster level.
Using a Karma Bead before casting will give +4 CL.
A Ring of Enduring Arcana will add +4 to dispel DC.
Dispelling Buffer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dispellingBuffer.htm) will add another +5 to dispel DC.

If you had all of these, at level 20, along with 5 levels of Archmage (Spell Power ability 5 times) your spell level would be 20 + 5 (archmage) +4 (karma bead), +4 (enduring Arcana), +5 (dispelling screen). Total CL = 38, meaning DC is 49 to dispel, which is impossible to get for most dispels, without additional dispel bonuses.
So you now force them to use Disjunction, so you need to pump your will save also, but with no cap on their CL now.

[candycorn]

So you now force them to use Disjunction, so you need to pump your will save also, but with no cap on their CL now.

There are so many ways to defend against Disjunction that it's not funny.

Ring of Spell-Battle - Redirect it onto them.
Contingency effect: Wall of stone/dimension door/etc etc - Block LoE or get out of spell area.

That's two, off hand.

On a side note: It's better to force them to use a 9th level spell than a 3rd or 6th. Also, they'd need to cast a few dispels to know they aren't working. That's more rounds wasted.

[Rubik]

If you're a psionic character 3 levels in illithid savant (qualify for it via Metamorphosis, or possibly by the Illithid Heritage feat...maybe) could nab you the metamind's Font of Power ability. Take Supernatural Transformation (FoP) and ST (psionics) and you're dispel-proof, then you can use Timeless Body to become immune to almost EVERYTHING (so, basically Disjunction and perhaps god abilities are all that can take you down, and the latter is questionable), and Font of Power is essentially persistent so long as you or your Schism'd personality keep manifesting Temporal Reiteration (from CPsi).

Also, anyone with access to Astral Projection can just recast it next round (or have their Planar Bound nightmare do it for them), and they'll be just fine.


There are so many ways to defend against Disjunction that it's not funny.

Ring of Spell-Battle - Redirect it onto them.I've gotta get myself one of those...


Contingency effect: Wall of stone/dimension door/etc etc - Block LoE or get out of spell area.The wall won't work with regular Contingency because it can't affect you, and Contingency only works if the spell affects you.

However, Contingency + Celerity or Psionic Contingency + Synchronicity work, and they're excessively multipurpose (because then you can cast any spell or manifest any power you have access to, rather than just be limited to 1, and Psi Contingency can be used any number of times so long as you only have one Contingency go off at once).

[kulosle]

I've never seen an indestructible build that was psionic before. It's a shame that I know very little about psionics. Could you please explain to me how that trick works?

Isn't there some way through circle magic and consumptive field abuse to have an insanely high cl all day? Or was that trick only to get it high enough for you persisted spells?

A spell sword of disjunction is probably a good idea. That, Friendly Fire, and Wings of Cover, should keep me safe from almost anything unexpected. Shapechange shenanigans for war trolls regeneration, veil of undeath, and acid immunity. Anyone see a whole in that? There are other immunities I'd need to put on put that's the gist of it right?

[nedz]

There are so many ways to defend against Disjunction that it's not funny.

Ring of Spell-Battle - Redirect it onto them.
Contingency effect: Wall of stone/dimension door/etc etc - Block LoE or get out of spell area.

That's two, off hand.

On a side note: It's better to force them to use a 9th level spell than a 3rd or 6th. Also, they'd need to cast a few dispels to know they aren't working. That's more rounds wasted.

Well its all measure against countermeasure at this level, and you've now had to commit more resources to defence. And this just for one possible counter attack.
How do you stop their earlier attacks from already having triggered these ?

[Jack_Simth]

I've never seen an indestructible build that was psionic before. It's a shame that I know very little about psionics. Could you please explain to me how that trick works?Most of them are centered around the Timeless Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm) power, which has a very short description:
Your body ignores all harmful (and helpful) effects, beginning when you finish manifesting this power and ending at the end of your next turn. While timeless body is in effect, you are invulnerable to all attacks and powers.

This power cannot be quickened.
It's only got a 1 round duration, though. So the other tricks are about keeping it up.

Temporal Reiteration is a swift-action power that burns power points to prevent the previous round from counting against you for anything with a duration. Combine with the Metamind's Font of Power, and you've got infinite power points to burn forever to keep it up... as long as you don't need to spend your swift action on anything else. This method is somewhat debatable on whether or not it works, as potentially Timeless Body itself negates it.

Slightly less debatable is the Psionic version of Persistent Spell: Persistent Power (3.0 Psionics handbook...). Increases the power point cost by 8, though, so you'll need to get your effective manifester level up to 25, or find a way to reduce the costs otherwise. Overchannel would get you to 23 if you're 20th. A Wilder could do it directly with Wild Surge (at 19th, anyway).

[avr]

Use lots of illusions and/or simulcra and/or mundanely disguised mooks to provide alternative targets, then use Invisible Spell or similar to avoid blowing your cover.

The mailman can destroy things amazingly well, but it helps to know what to destroy.