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Madeiner
2012-03-24, 11:45 AM
Hi there.
I am organizing a survival-based zombie game and i would like to implement weapon durability rules.
The system i am using (AFMBE) uses d10 mechanic to reach a target number (like d&d).

I thought of something along this line:

- each weapon has a max durability value, and a "repair capacity" value.
- a new gun may have for example 5 durability, and 50 "repair capacity"
- each time you roll a natural one, you lose one durability. When you durability reaches 0, the weapon breaks/cannot be used/jams
- you can repair/mantain the weapon using time & tools. Each time you "restore" one durability point, you lose one "repair capacity" point.
- once you have 0 repair points left, you cannot repair your weapon anymore, as it is in a too bad condition to attempt repair

What do you think of this system? Are there any other systems for weapon durability that i could adopt?

Also, what are some values i could use for different weapons?
I would like something semirealistic, but also i want weapon to be repaired often enough to matter.

For a gun, i was thinking probably 10 durability, and infinite repair capacity. You need to "service" the gun after about 100 shots (10% each shot to lose 1 durability), but there is not practical limit to the amounts of time you can do that (at least in gametime; we are not spanning decades here)

For a modern-day katana, mass produced, i was thinking something along 7 durability, and about 15 repair capacity. You can repair your katana, but it will come a point where it simply breaks and there's nothing you can do, short of building a new one.

A baseball bat might have 7-10 durability, and 0 repair capacity. How do you repair a baseball bat anyway?

SilverLeaf167
2012-03-24, 12:54 PM
For the industrial souvenir stuff you find these days, the katana scores should be fairly appropriate, and I don't see anything wrong with the guns either in a short timeframe (though I'm no expert). I'd be ranting though if you compared the durability of an ancient katana to a baseball bat.

A baseball bat might have 7-10 durability, and 0 repair capacity. How do you repair a baseball bat anyway?
With super wood glue, and a couple other ways.

Also, duct tape should give any item endless repair capability. :smalltongue: Seriously though, that stuff is fricking tough and really handy.

Soylent Dave
2012-03-24, 07:37 PM
The biggest problem with durability systems is that keeping track can be pretty involved and time consuming - as well as tracking damage etc. for characters you now have to track damage and durability for all equipment (or just weapons? or just weapons and armour? Either way you draw a line somewhere)

In a game / setting like AFMBE it is a pretty cool concept, though.

Your system seems pretty neat, as weapon durability systems go - but I'd just be aware that the whole thing is a massive undertaking, and you will keep on hitting awkward problems with your verisimilitude, even when you only try for semi-realism.

And I'm not entirely sure how much you 'get back' from all the work (your players may just end up trying to ignore it by stockpiling spare weapons and so forth); it's a hard balance to get right.

(I'm a fan of abstraction, so when GMing I assume that characters are maintaining minor damage to their weapons all the time without needing to declare it, and have therefore conveniently shunted a lot of this stuff into the background (weapons and equipment can still be damaged, but not so much by gradual attrition)



For the industrial souvenir stuff you find these days, the katana scores should be fairly appropriate [...] I'd be ranting though if you compared the durability of an ancient katana to a baseball bat.


One of these? :smalltongue:

http://seemslegit.com/_images/39433bc9e99a0a5bf1946a7cb75d30da/802%20-%20internet%20katana%20tank.jpg

Kuma Kode
2012-03-24, 08:03 PM
Weapon breakage is very touchy. It can be unnecessarily complicated, and there doesn't seem to be a right way to do it, considering it should lose durability when you block with it, which you're certainly doing if you're being attacked, and from successful attacks, because the energy has to go somewhere. Not to mention the consistency of the target should make a difference. Why would a hammer designed to beat on stone and has done so for years break when hitting a much softer target?

It rarely, if ever, actually adds to the horror or survival aspect because it's difficult to keep track of, and if you're okay with improvising boards and such that can be found everywhere (what home doesn't have a pipe somewhere?), it becomes meaningless. Nearly every video game I've played with weapon breakage has completely ruined my love for the equipment in the setting. If you find a nice weapon, you end up never using it because you're afraid you're going to waste it (firearms fall into this category in most horror, too), and so you resign yourself to whatever consumes the least amount of resources, which for mooks is almost always disposable melee.

There's really no use trying to use a 1d10 damage katana or whatever when there's a multitude of 1d6 clubs, sticks, and pipes around. If they can find the balance point between damage and availability, there's not really going to be much value in repairing the items since you can always find a new one, and suddenly the weapon breakage rules don't really add any horror. Silent Hill : Origins was particularly bad about this. A weapon would last about 3 monsters, less if it's a tough monster, so I inevitably ended up using unarmed attacks against weaker, lonely mook monsters, which turned the game into a black comedy about a psychotic trucker punching nurses to death. Your system looks like the weapons will degrade much slower, but the issue still remains, in a much less severe state.

HOWEVER, my personal disdain for weapon durability aside, I did like how Fallout 3 does it. The weapon takes damage every time it's used, but the decay is very slow. Additionally, if you find other similar items, you can destroy and cannibalize them to restore your other item. So if I have an assault rifle, I can destroy a crappy one we just found to repair the one I have. This makes sense, because if a piece is on its last leg, you can replace it instead of trying to repair it. Eventually you're going to have a completely different gun, but you won't notice because you replaced it piece by piece. Perhaps implement something like that? That would solve the "LOVE NOTHING" aspect of disposable weaponry because you could kind of get attached to one, but still have to consume resources in order to keep it repaired.

So perhaps have them have HP, and you can make some kind of skill roll to repair it by cannibalizing something similar (not necessarily identical), with the degree of success determining what percentage of the donor's HP is given to the original? This also solves "where did you get the new knife handle?"

Jay R
2012-03-25, 11:36 AM
A baseball bat might have 7-10 durability, and 0 repair capacity. How do you repair a baseball bat anyway?

Most zombie-hunters in my experience (except Major League zombie hunters) use aluminum bats, which don't break.

(But I'm still having trouble getting past the notion of a "survival-based zombie game". Aren't zombies inherently post-survival?)

Madeiner
2012-03-25, 01:15 PM
Most zombie-hunters in my experience (except Major League zombie hunters) use aluminum bats, which don't break.

(But I'm still having trouble getting past the notion of a "survival-based zombie game". Aren't zombies inherently post-survival?)

I havent ever seen an aluminium baseball bat, in italy at leasts.
Plus, doesn't aluminum bend easily?

I don't get the second line, unless it was a pun?

A survival game is about staying alive after a zombie apocalypse, with few survivors and little resources.

Kuma Kode
2012-03-25, 04:17 PM
Plus, doesn't aluminum bend easily? Some things made of aluminum are weak, yes, but baseball bats are one of the things that aren't, since they're designed to take sudden force to a single spot and not bend up. Eventually they'll dent, especially if you use them against things harder than they are, like concrete blocks or iron bars, but they're just as durable as the wooden ones, if not moreso, for half the weight.

Also, dented or not, it's still a bar of metal you're clubbing things with.

Jay R
2012-03-26, 06:16 AM
(But I'm still having trouble getting past the notion of a "survival-based zombie game". Aren't zombies inherently post-survival?)
I don't get the second line, unless it was a pun?

A survival game is about staying alive after a zombie apocalypse, with few survivors and little resources.

Saying alive? That changes everything. This isn't a zombie game; it's an anti-zombie game.

Kuma Kode
2012-03-26, 06:34 AM
Saying alive? That changes everything. This isn't a zombie game; it's an anti-zombie game. I actually can't tell if you're being funny or semantic, either. :smallconfused:

Zombie game means the game is about zombies, not necessarily that you are zombies.

Jay R
2012-03-26, 09:31 AM
I actually can't tell if you're being funny or semantic, either. :smallconfused:

Zombie game means the game is about zombies, not necessarily that you are zombies.

Oh, I'm just being silly. Sorry if I confused you.