Stacking AC bonuses Phalanx/Shield Wall

[JackRackham]

I'm looking through feats to beef up the phalanx in an army in a campaign I'm DMing. Now, there's Shield Wall, there's Phalanx Fighting, there's Formation Expert and, I'm pretty sure there are some others. This WILL be a defensively focused group and they're elites, so I don't have to worry about overbuilding.

My question is, RAW, do these freaking stack!?

I mean, for what I'm looking at, this is perfect and vs PCs, crazy AC is not going to save anyone for long. But versus another army, with everyone level 1-5, how is anyone getting hit? Versus an army NOT in Phalanx, I think it'd end up a slaughter (assuming classes in the tier 5-6 range).

EDIT: Also Shieldmate and Improved Shieldmate. Still more? Maybe.
EDIT2: Another question: Do other people read these as being cumulative with themselves. IE if everyone in the formation has these feats, would one get that +7 (so far) for each of the guys on either side of one?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Versus an army NOT in Phalanx, I think it'd end up a slaughter (assuming classes in the tier 5-6 range).

Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? It's what allowed the Greeks to defeat the Persians and the Romans (with javelins and shortswords instead of spears) to defeat everybody.

[Madara]

Calvary, Charges.
Bards
Anything that gives a bonus to attack

It wouldn't be Absolute Slaughter, but yeah, they'd win

[Red_Dog]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4963

Here catch this! ^^ Its a decent guide. Requires 3.0 material to be anyway decent.

Otherwise basic math=>
**EDIT woops miss-clicked!**

So... yeah... math^^ Bonuses seem untyped to me, so all good on stacking

+5 (+1 Breast plate only ~2k, you can afford it) [Iconic spartan look, bump to fullplate if needed]
+3 (+1 Heavy Shield, only ~2k, you can afford it)
+1 Ring (again, 2k, can afford)
+3 Phalanx Fighting[CAN NOT be used with tower shield!]
+2 Shield mate & Improved Shield Mate

Total AC of 24... That is NOT stellar and your movement is reduced due to medium armor (which you can, again, afford to swap on mithril).

Adding Combat expertise into the mix gives a max of 29. Again, its not bad... just not great.

With +1 Fullplate (not mithril, that will cost you as far as I know). AC27 and 32 with Expertise.

[JackRackham]

Calvary, Charges.
Bards
Anything that gives a bonus to attack

It wouldn't be Absolute Slaughter, but yeah, they'd win

Toss in Hold the Line (I already had).

Cavalry charges would work somewhat, but even then, they've got 33 AC, a +2 to attack, a free AOO vs charging enemies (2 with a longspear, assuming the enemy doesn't have reach) and 3x damage vs a cavalry charge. The AOO alone would be 16 damage on average. Double that if you've got reach. Triple that if they're trying to run you down (IIRC) without the proper feats (which they should be, 34 AC). Throw in the two guys to either side of you and their AOOs (cavalry units are typically smaller than infantry, there should be plenty of AOO to go around) and maybe even the guys behind you if the enemy succeeds in pushing you back with that feat that gives him a free trip in this situation. Really, short of a very specific Cavalry build, they're boned.

Bards? Sure, yes. That's why I specified tier 5-6.

[JackRackham]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4963

Here catch this! ^^ Its a decent guide. Requires 3.0 material to be anyway decent.

Otherwise basic math=>
**EDIT woops miss-clicked!**

So... yeah... math^^ Bonuses seem untyped to me, so all good on stacking

+5 Breast plate [Iconic spartan look, bump to fullplate if needed]
+3 (+1 Heavy Shield, only 2k, you can afford it)
+1 Ring (again, 2k, can afford)
+3 Phalanx Fighting[CAN NOT be used with tower shield!]
+2 Shield mate & Improved Shield Mate

Total AC of 24... That is NOT stellar and your movement is reduced due to medium armor (which you can, again, afford to swap on mithril).

Adding Combat expertise into the mix gives a max of 29. Again, its not bad... just not great.

Another +2 Shield Wall and multiply that, shield mate, and Phalanx fighting by 2, as you have someone to your left AND right. My people are equipped with a standard breastplate and heavy shield and getting 33 AC.

[Madara]

Well then, historically speaking...Bring on the Elephants! Trample would...walk all over them :smalltongue:

Also, tier 5-6 range is... the group that doesn't work.

If I was building a group(T5-T6) that could face it? Experts, with maxed UMD and wands of firewall. And I would throw Alchemist fire/ acid. the touch AC is low enough to handle and its burst.

[Red_Dog]

EDIT2: Another question: Do other people read these as being cumulative with themselves. IE if everyone in the formation has these feats, would one get that +7 (so far) for each of the guys on either side of one?

Ha, well I'll be Shield mate does stack per creature adjacent to you!

So improved shieldmate will net you +4 untyped AC with while standing next to two of your clones ^^ So the number jumps up to 26 for normal, 29 for fullplate, 31 for no plate and Expertise and 34 for Full on Defense.

Throw in Fighting defensively and and gain +2 dodge that stacks with Expertise for a grand total of 36 possible AC and -9 on attacks.

Phalanx fighting does NOT stack. You form a "shield wall" and gain untyped bonus. That's where it ends no matter how big the wall is.

[JackRackham]

EDIT: Nevermind

[Red_Dog]

Well then, historically speaking...Bring on the Elephants! Trample would...walk all over them :smalltongue:

Also, tier 5-6 range is... the group that doesn't work.

If I was building a group(T5-T6) that could face it? Experts, with maxed UMD and wands of firewall. And I would throw Alchemist fire/ acid. the touch AC is low enough to handle and its burst.

Keep in mind the WBL. Though you only need a small amounts of wands. But as soon as you bring UMD shenaneganery into the picture, we gonna get to "my Wizards Vs your Wizards!" very very soon = ]

Now... If I were to fight these guys =>

Mildly psychic psychic Human Rangers or Paladins with one Psychic Warrior dip.
Paladin 4/Psychic Warrior 1 or Ranger 4/Psychic Warrior 1
Hidden Talent, PA, Psychic Weapon, Deep Impact. Done diddly an! ^^

I am faster, I make touch attacks every OTHER round, I power attack for full, and rinse and repeat. Not to mention that rangers have ways to sneak up and start encounter on their terms, and paladins would probably talk them down with their superior linguistic skills ^^

Alternatively I would probably go with some archery option. Maybe a mix of sneak attacking fighters from Unearthed Arcane and Crossbow sniper and some Specialization, and 2-3 rangers with ACF for making people flanked when they shoot.
Rangers shoot => flank if hit, Fighters focus fire.

P.S. I've made some Crossbow "shock troopers" for my campaign, very fun, not amazingly effective, but fun ^^