Spell Combos: Am I Forgetting Something?

[zoobob9]

I'm doing a 5 vs. 1 fight with a friend of mine. He has 5 fighers, ECL 20 and 75k each, and I have 1 wizard [necromancy specialist], ECL 24 (lich template) and 75k. Two rounds, the first one he goes first, the second I go first.

We don't know much about the other's character(s). I was planning on shapchanging into a dragon and spamming conjuration spells, so he thinks I'll do that. I know that if all 5 of his guys go before me, I'm pretty much dead.

So my strategy changed from " You don'd mess with Dragons" into "kill him before he can hit me." So, after hours of tweaking and all of my feats, I decided on the following tactic:

Twined Celerity (8th level spell)PHB2
This is an immediate action. Do this as fast as possible, before he can even get in a hit.

Cast two greater arcane fusions (complete mage)

Each Arcane fusion, cast the 7th level one simultaneously because of the wording have to. Then the first 4th level one, then the second 4th level one. This order is specific due to the residual metamagic. I am using a rules as intended on this; RAW says that it works on casting a spell on your next turn, I believe they meant on the next spell cast. My DM has let this slide before

First one
7th:
Reach split ray empowered maximized Shivering Touch (Frostburn)
• Reach is 2
o Easy makes it 1
• Split is 2
o Easy makes it 1
• Empowered is 2
o Easy makes it 1
• Maximize is 4
o Easy makes it 3
o Arcane thesis reduces to 2
o Metamagic school focus reduces to 1
• Shivering is base 3
• Total of 7
4th
Reach empower sudden maximized Residual Split ray Shivering Touch
• Reach is 2
o Easy makes it 1
• Empower is 2
o Easy makes it 1
o Arcane spell thesis reduces to 0 (check if you don’t believe me, its untyped)
• Sudden maximize is 0
• Residual split ray is 0
• Base is 3
• Total of 4

Second one
7th:
Reach split ray empowered maximized Shivering Touch
• Reach is 2
o Easy makes it 1
• Split is 2
o Easy makes it 1
• Empowered is 2
o Easy makes it 1
• Maximize is 4
o Easy makes it 3
o Arcane thesis reduces to 2
o Metamagic school focus reduces to 1
• Shivering is base 3
• Total of 7
4th:
Reach Residual maximize Empowered Shivering Touch
• Reach is 2
o Easy makes it 1
• Residual maximize is 0
• empowered is 2
o easy makes it 1
o arcane spell thesis makes it 0
• Base is 3
• Total of 4

Each ray does 27 dexterity damage. There are 7 rays (3 have split, one doesn’t) The only thing preventing that damage is spell resistance. Even if I miss, I have 2 rays leftover to hit them, or just in case one of them has more than 27 dex.

Do this both rounds. Undaze myself with Quick Recovery. When its my turn just start on the coup de grace for the rest of it.


My feats for this build:

• Maximize spell (phb)
• Empower spell (phb)
• Reach spell (complete divine)
• Twin spell (complete arcane)
• Split ray spell (complete arcane)
• Sudden maximize (complete arcane)
• Easy metamagic(…) (dragon magazine 325)
o Maximize
o Reach
o Split
o Empower
• Residual metamagic (complete mage)
• Metamagic school focus [necromancy] (complete mage)
• Arcane thesis [shivering touch] (phb2)
• Quick recovery (lords of madness)


As for gear, I decided on Robes of the Archmagi. Caster level bonus in case he has spell resistance, saves are higher, and an alright AC bonus.

Is this legal? Is there anything I overlooked? And do you think I have a chance?

[Luca]

If you're already using greater arcane fusion, why not do the total ridiculousness of filling the two slots with sanctum greater arcane fusion.

When cast outside of your sanctum this +0 metamagic reduces the spell's level by 1.

Infinite spells as a single spell slot.

Edit- On a less TO note, since you're already employing mailman like tactics can i suggest keeping some direct damage in reserve in case they are immune in some way to ability damage (undead, deathward etc).

[SilverLeaf167]

I'd recommend this: Celerity (perhaps twinned), use your actions to cast Time Stops, use extra rounds to cast Force Cages on them all. When they're all impossibly trapped, chain-Gate in some Solars, and voila.

[Phaederkiel]

can you do immediates while you are flat-footed?

as in: when you had not had a turn?

I'd think you cannot. Which makes you lose one by default, while you win the other one pretty much by default.

[absolmorph]

Arcane Fusion and Greater Arcane Fusion are Sorcerer spells, not Sorcerer/Wizard spells. Wizards can't learn or cast them.

Drop a feat to pick up Craft Contingent Spell (Sudden Maximize could work, you don't need it). Have at least one set to activate (Greater) Celerity when you're the target of an attack or hostile spell effect. Have a few set to activate a Greater Celerity when you say a specific, bizarre phrase.
Be buffed ahead of time with Superior Invisibility. It lasts for 1 hour/caster level, so that's reasonable.
Use the first Greater Celerity to cast Time Stop, and use the Time Stop to buff up with Fly and any other spells which don't last for at least an hour ahead of time.
You are now invisible to most mundane senses. If necessary, use targetted Greater Dispel Magics to strip the fighters of their buffs.

[zoobob9]

Arcane Fusion and Greater Arcane Fusion are Sorcerer spells, not Sorcerer/Wizard spells. Wizards can't learn or cast them.


Would wish let me cast them, even though I normally couldn't? It does say ANY sorc/wiz spell of 8th level or lower. I'm not gonna miss that 10k XP.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

can you do immediates while you are flat-footed?

as in: when you had not had a turn?

I'd think you cannot.
This.
zoobob9, can you bypass this limitation? (foresight, mark of stars, being a minotaur...?)

[absolmorph]

This.
zoobob9, can you bypass this limitation? (foresight, mark of stars, being a minotaur...?)
Yes. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm)

[kardar233]

If you're worried about getting enough spells off, may I suggest the Nagahydra Shapechange form (Serpent Kingdoms, IIRC). It allows you to cast "one spell per round per head", meaning five spells per round.

[zoobob9]

This.
zoobob9, can you bypass this limitation? (foresight, mark of stars, being a minotaur...?)

We're assuming its a duel; we don't start flat footed, we are ready to do whatever we wish, we just agree to go on "go" whatever that may be. For the actual build, if I ever choose to play him, I'd get a contingency. We also have "buffs" as we wish, as long as they aren't real game changers (so he couldn't use an antimagic field somehow or something before the battle even starts.)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Ditch Reach Spell and Sudden Maximize. Pick up Improved Initiative (going first helps) and something else, possibly Improved Familiar or something else, like persistent spell.

Also, how are you getting (Greater) Arcane Fusion on a straight classed wizard?:smallconfused:

[zoobob9]

Ditch Reach Spell and Sudden Maximize. Pick up Improved Initiative (going first helps) and something else, possibly Improved Familiar or something else, like persistent spell.

Also, how are you getting (Greater) Arcane Fusion on a straight classed wizard?:smallconfused:

Shivering touch is a touch attack. Rule 1 of fighting 5 fighters: don't let them touch you.

Ditching sudden maximize goes from 7 27 dex damge rays to 4 27 and 3 3d6x1.5. I can't take that risk.

We're having 2 battles. One he goes first, the other I go first. The one in which he goes first, I immediate action to do this before he can do a thing. That's the point of the build. Improved initiative is useless to me.

The only thing my familiar would do would help me coup de grace the fighters once they're all crippled.

Absolmorph noticed the Arcane fusion thing; I'm using the actions from celerity to use wish to cast Arcane Fusion.

[Snowbluff]

How much prep are you allowed? Uppity Fighters always call for Simulacrum and the like. Or Disjunction.

[zoobob9]

How much prep are you allowed? Uppity Fighters always call for Simulacrum and the like. Or Disjunction.

There are technically 4 battles. 2 buffed, 2 unbuffed. We assume we take whatever time we need in order to prepare for the buffed ones. If they do that, what DC do you think it would be to dispel?

[deuxhero]

For the unbuffed battle, how about you Maze yourself?

The rules aren't exactly clear what happened if you do this, but you could potentially use if for 10 mins of buff time (it's not like they can do much to buff themselfs or trap the area you will return in)

[absolmorph]

Ditching sudden maximize goes from 7 27 dex damge rays to 4 27 and 3 3d6x1.5. I can't take that risk.
Actually, if you use invisibility and movement, you can ensure you're always outside of their reach, so you can take more time.
Furthermore, when you stack empower and maximize on Shivering Touch, you get 18+(3d6*.5) Dex damage, not 27. This is explicitly noted in the description of Maximize Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#maximizeSpell).
Basically, so long as you can keep up a stream of Shivering Touches with Reach, you'll win. Assuming 3 per fighter, that's 15 level 3+ slots. Adding on a maximize makes it a level 6 slot, dealing 18 Dex damage. Split Ray brings that up to 7, hitting 2 enemies. A Reach Split Ray Shivering Touch with Residual Maximize on the next turn will be a level 4 slot for another 18 on two enemies.

Check out a list of ways for a wizard to defend himself and figure out (with your friend) which of those would make sense to have. Personally, I'd say any 1 hour/level spell would be logical as a daily buff.

[Phaederkiel]

We're assuming its a duel; we don't start flat footed, we are ready to do whatever we wish, we just agree to go on "go" whatever that may be. For the actual build, if I ever choose to play him, I'd get a contingency. We also have "buffs" as we wish, as long as they aren't real game changers (so he couldn't use an antimagic field somehow or something before the battle even starts.)

I am sorry, but until you have your first turn, you still cannot use Immediates.

And if I ever wanted to call something a "game changer", it would be a contingency on celerity. Even an antimagic field is much fairer than that.

[Wings of Peace]

No Persistent Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I am sorry, but until you have your first turn, you still cannot use Immediates.

And if I ever wanted to call something a "game changer", it would be a contingency on celerity. Even an antimagic field is much fairer than that.

Foresight actually allows for you to use immediates without having acted in a round.


No Persistent Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity?

Delay Death is no longer a valid target for Persistent spell as of the latest printing, sadly.

[Wings of Peace]

Foresight actually allows for you to use immediates without having acted in a round.



Delay Death is no longer a valid target for Persistent spell as of the latest printing, sadly.

I thought that was why we had Ocular Spell?

[zoobob9]

I thought that was why we had Ocular Spell?

How would ocular spell help that? It remains uncast for all practical purposes until you take a full round action, and besides it only affects spell with a target other than yourself. Is there some RAW loophole I don't know about?

[Endarire]

This advice may help (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872034/A_Core-only_Wiz_20_vs_Splatbook_Ftr_20...?post_id=3384252 14#338425214).