Swordsage feat selection/ Iaijutsu Focus?

[Gharkash]

So, i am playing a two hander Strength based human swordsage, Diamond Mind/Tiger Claw focused, and swapped Desert Wind for Iron Heart (do not comment on that please, i dislike Desert Wind).

As for Feats, i go for Adaptive Style and Stormguard Warrior for sure, for a synergy on ridiculous-number-of-attacks maneuvers (battle rhythm) and then single strikes that multiply your damage.

What other combos are there that are solid, do not make you a one trick ponny and could work well on such a character? Also, what ways, if any, are there to add iajutsu focus to all that? If possible, do not include multiclassing and magic items in your answer, just feats.

Thanks.

[Flickerdart]

Iron Heart for Desert Wind is an awesome trade, though. Desert Wind blows.

Iaijutsu Focus is useless for you because it's a CHA based skill, so you'll be adding Charisma to Strength, Constitution and Wisdom as stats that you want, plus resources to train it, plus resources to get people flat footed, plus resources to draw a new weapon every round...and for all that, you get a maximum of thirty damage per turn. Super not worth it.

[Gharkash]

I was considering getting Quickdraw as it is, cause i like it's feel, but probably it would get too much muticlassing etc to make it worth. How about feats?

[Malachei]

Depends on how many you get (flaws/no flaws, etc.)

Generally, Stormguard Warrior is great with anything that generates a lot of AoOs.

When not channeling the storm, you may want to use them from time to time to carry out actual AoOs, so it may be worthwhile to go for a good Dex, in combination with Combat Reflexes. You could develop this further into a dedicated AoO build, picking up Thicket of Blades, Karmic and/or Robilar's, and so on (there are a lot of sources available on AoO builds).

Unfortunately, as a THFer, you'll not have the exquisite Double Hit path of a TWFer, but you can cause loads of damage going the well-known Power Attack + Leap Attack + Shock Trooper route.

[Gharkash]

I have the normal 7 feats and the human one, no flaws allowed unfortunately.

I have already thought of Combat Reflexes, but the AoO builds seem awkward as we play gridless, and it is hard to keep track of enemy movement. Karmic has some prerequisites i do not like, but Robilar's is nice and i will seriously consider it.

As for the charging power attack i feel it does not take advantage of maneuvers that much, as i have only one that counts as a charge.

What are your thoughts about Wild Talent/Psionic Weapon/Deep Impact/Psionic Meditation and maybe Instant Clarity? Does the lower level +2d6 damage and the higher lvl ability to turn the Diamond Mind damage multiplying maneuvers to touch attacks worth all this feat intensity?

[Malachei]

As a Swordsage, your recovery mechanic is really bad, so you want to have a few counters and most important maneuvers for maximum impact. Still, even at high levels, I see Swordsages run out of maneuvers, and I think as a Swordsage, you should have a default combat style that works when you don't have a fitting maneuver ready. Especially since you've mentioned that you're playing a THF focusing on Strength, you should use Power Attack to good effect -- Leap Attack & Shock Trooper is the ideal combination to try one-shotting things, and Charging Minotaur will help you get close to the big things without taking AoO.

Often, Combat Expertise is used to make up for Robilar's penalty, so you'll likely have that, but you can also use Evasive Reflexes instead to qualify for Karmic. When creating an AoO build that plays the gambit, I always go for Karmic AND Robilar's.

As to your question: No idea, really, as we're usually not playing psionic.

[Gharkash]

Adaptive Style makes refreshing more viable for a swordsage.

If i am not mistaken, the power attack/leap attack/shock trooper combo is to charge something with triple power attack damage, while boosting your ac with heedless charge. it is not half bad, but it is also feat intense. I still feel it is better suited for the White Raven charges though.

As for the Ac from Robilar's, there are maneuvers that can help, without combat expertise (baffling defense/wall of blades).

The psionic feats i mention are: Wild Talent (basically lets you take psionic feats without psionic classes or races)/Psionic Weapon ( if you have psionic focus, which you get from a concetration check made as a full round action, you can expend it to get +2d6 to a weapon damage roll/Deep Impact, that lets you treat one attack as a touch attack(needs psionic wpn as prereq, expends psionic focus)/ Psionic meditation lets you regain your focus as a move action.

Basically, you make touch attacks with battle rhythm, and at the next round you strike with a touch attack fueled with damage from battle rhythm and multiplied by Diamond Nightmare Blade to make it easier to hit.

[Malachei]

I'd say Adaptive Style is really only viable when you have time: D&D, especially high level, is all about the action economy, and Adaptive Style costs your turn, something you normally cannot do in a really tough fight. This limitation is one of the reasons why Swordsages see less play than Warblades and Crusaders, IMO.

The Karmic/Robliar's characters I have are using the combo all the time, each round, so you'll want your AC to be fine every round, and not waste a counter. Otherwise, you'll be burning through several maneuvers per round.

Psionic feats: *shrugs* as I said, I don't really care about psionics, so if you want advice on that aspect of your build, that would probably come from someone else.

Though of course I know about Stormguard Warrior (both Combat Rhythm and Channel the Storm are nice).

[Flickerdart]

Adaptive Style is a full-round action, isn't it? A few Belts of Battle in your pack mean that you can recover as a swift action once an encounter, and then switch to a fresh Belt before the next one.

[Malachei]

Excellent way to circumvent the problem.

Though I'd prefer spending 36000 on something else (assuming three encounters per day, i.e. three Belts of Battle), or use the Belts' wonderful powers for something different, such as triggering more maneuvers/actions when I really need them.

The question was on whether a Swordsage would need a default combat technique (such as a feat tree) or could rely on maneuvers alone.

I've seen Swordsages burn through their most important maneuvers so quickly that they regularly want to recover at least once, possibly more often per fight (also in high level play). So essentially, I think building a Swordsage on maneuvers alone is a risky strategy. Having a good default way of attacking (whether AoO or PA-Leap-Attack-Shock-Trooper or whatever) can be a life-saver for a Swordsage. Or play a Warblade or Crusader, of course.

[Gharkash]

Warblade is out of the question, so is Crusader. My DM "hates" tome of battle, he let me play a swordsage under "heavy" pressure.

As for maneuver refresh, i cannot see a better way than adaptive style, even though you spend a round doing nothing, you can always shadowblink out of combat, reset maneuvers and shadowstride back in.

Lastly, to quote myself, i do not want to rely on magic items. I have come to three builds, the psionic feats/stormguard warrior, the PA/leap attack/shock trooper, and the karmic/robilar's. I am not sure as to what i will choose though.

[Malachei]

Don't take me wrong, I think Swordsage is a great class.

Still, it has its limitations, and Adaptive Style, while a great help, does not solve the maneuver recovery issue.

Blinking out and in is nice if you are on your own, but when with a group, you leave your party alone for the time.

For feats, if you really want to go THF, you could progress as follows:

1) Adaptive Style
H) Combat Reflexes
3) Power Attack
6) Ironheart Aura (prerequisite for Stormguard Warrior)
9) Stormguard Warrior
12) Shock Trooper
15) Leap Attack
18) Robilar's

This is not really optimized and just an example that you can combine routes. EDIT: Yes, you have to acquire Improved Bull Rush for Shock Trooper (consider adding a level of fighter or dropping another feat).

Of course, you can have Robilar's earlier if you drop in two levels of fighter or full BAB class, because then you have +12 BAB at 15th. Also, mixing in fighter will give you more feats. Perhaps, if you have more fighter levels, you can use Martial Study and Martial Stance to acquire Thicket of Blades for a wonderful way to trigger AoOs, which synergizes beautifully with Channel the Storm -- but this strategy would be be better with reach (Spiked Chain).

Personally, I'd consider going TWF or Spiked Chain with Shadow Blade (Dex to damage on top of Str to damage).

[Gharkash]

I do not like twf that much, and i have a ranger in my group, so i dont want to steal his spotlight ( even though rangers are lower tier, harder to get the spotlight, anyway).

I considered shadow blade, but it needs dedication to a wepons and shadown hand stances, more likely assasin's.

The build you suggest on the other hand isn't half bad. I am at loss as what to pick. Also, shouldn't leap attack be before shock trooper, as leap attack is what boosts your damage, shock trooper marely enhances your AC?

[Malachei]

I'd go Shock Trooper first, because Shock Trooper means you still hit, meaning you can shift your full BAB to damage.

Leap Attack is the add-on (it also has errata).

[Gharkash]

Shock Trooper means you still hit
Leap Attack has errata.

Could you explain these two?

Also Shock Trooper requires Improved Bullrush.

[Malachei]

Normal Power Attack means you trade to hit for more damage. Eventually, your problem is that trading more penalizes your chances to hit.

Shock Trooper lets you convert the attack penalty into an AC penalty. This is reckless, but very effective, unless you are a glass cannon.

Leap Attack was clarified / errata'd. See here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/162742-errata-leap-attack.html) for an interpretation of the errata (of course, there are conflicting interpretations).

[Gharkash]

Yes, i had misinterpret Shock Trooper. Seems quite effective.

[Malachei]

You're welcome.

[Gharkash]

Thanks fellow illithid.