Help Optimizing Wizard

[gnomercy]

Hey guys first off thanks for reading. I am creating a new character and we are using just core books. Our party needed utility and possibly dmg so I thought about going wizard. Batman Wizard was the first thing that popped into my head however, we have a cleric, rogue and monk in party. Both monk and cleric rolled low for stats so we might be short on dmg. We are level 5 with starting gold of 9k. Below are my stats that i thought about so far.

I went Grey Elf and Bought a plus 2 widget of Int for stats of
Str 10
Dex 17
Con 12
Int 22
Wis 12
Cha 8

I would love input on weather or not without much party dmg if i should go sorcerer for all the fire dmg or if i went summoner and summoned a bunch of things to help the party.

Thoughts on what to use the rest of my 5k on. As well as spells i should buy.

Thank you guys so much for reading this. Look forward to feedback.

[SSGoW]

Core Only?

If you go wizard roll a die to get the spells into your spell book and you will do just fine...

You can add others whenever u get a chance.

Sorcerer you may want to put a little more thought into spell selections but really you can't go wrong...

However even with low dmg friends Batman Wizard will be better than Direct Damage Wizard/Sorcerer.

Rogue gets sneak attack and the cleric gets spells and righteous might. Monk... can grapple with a touch attack... err... yeah...

However I would suggest not to optimize that way you are somewhat on the level of the entire party.

[gnomercy]

Thanks. Ya our GM is known for being a tool and trying to screw us any way hey can. I just want to be the best that's why I was wondering what I should do for spells and items.

Thanks for input.

[Telonius]

A few important questions. First, how experienced is the rest of the party? What optimization level are they comfortable with? You mention low-stat Cleric (which isn't too big of a problem) and Monk (which is very much a big problem, being the lowest-powered class in Core, with a severe case of MAD to boot). How good are those players at optimizing, and will they accept help/advice? And last, any important houserules we need to know?

Without knowing that first, I do have some advice. For the sake of party harmony (as well as general competence), I normally wouldn't go with a direct damage dealer as a spellcaster. But this is one of those situations where it might be best. Unless you and the Cleric collaborate to buff up the Monk, you're really going to be the go-to guy for damage. Wizard is still the better option than Sorcerer.

I'd suggest getting a Pearl of Power (2nd) for 4k, plus a Wand of Enlarge Person (for the Monk) at 750. (Seriously, you're going to need it). Use the remainder for utility scrolls like Shield, Grease, and Feather Fall - stuff you need once in a while but really hurt you when you don't have it.

Spell selection. In general, I'd shy away from relying specifically on Fire damage. It's one of the most common types for monsters to be immune to. You'll get all 0-level, plus ... 8? first level, for free at level 1. (Base Int seems to be 18, with +2 racial to give a +20 - or was it 17 to start with, and you put the stat bump at level 4 into Int?) Anyway, I'd suggest...

Grease, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Color Spray, Sleep, Ray of Enfeeblement, Protection from Evil, Burning Hands (Drop this one if you only get 7 free).

For the other free level-ups:
2 - Comprehend Languages
2 - Obscuring Mist
3 - Glitterdust
3 - Mirror Image
4 - Web
4 - Acid Arrow (Normally I wouldn't suggest it, but damage...)
5 - Dispel Magic
5 - Lightning Bolt

So, you'll have damage options for Fire, Acid, and Lightning; plus a whole bunch of utility spells and Save or Sucks. Your priorities for the next few spells are Fly, Haste, Fireball, and Greater Magic Weapon. Again, I'd normally put Fly way before Lightning Bolt, but if you're really hurting for damage dealers, you'll want it sooner.

[dextercorvia]

Stay wizard and focus on debuffs and buffs. The monk will do well enough if he is fighting blind and held opponents. :smallbiggrin:

You are really looking for Treantmonk's God Guide, rather than batman here. Transmutation or Conjuration specialist (your choice, you will want to cast one spell of each school at each level anyway. Ban your choice of Evocation, Enchantment, or Necromancy.

For your spells:

3rd
Haste or Slow*(I prefer haste first, since Stinking Cloud fills the Slow role most of the time).
Stinking Cloud
Dispel Magic* (Ideally the Cleric should do this until you have moer 3rd level spells)

2nd
Alter Self (This is how you fly for now)
Rope Trick (Don't sleep outside)
Web
Glitterdust
Mirror Image* (If you can swing a scroll for scribing)

1st
Enlarge Person
Grease
Mage Armor
Shield
Alarm
Unseen Servant


There are others that you want, but get these first. Also, you should have a Lesser Rod of Extend for your Mage Armor, Rope Trick, and one other spell, maybe Alter Self if you are relying on Trog NA bonuses.

[gnomercy]

A few important questions. First, how experienced is the rest of the party? What optimization level are they comfortable with? You mention low-stat Cleric (which isn't too big of a problem) and Monk (which is very much a big problem, being the lowest-powered class in Core, with a severe case of MAD to boot). How good are those players at optimizing, and will they accept help/advice? And last, any important houserules we need to know?

I'd suggest getting a Pearl of Power (2nd) for 4k, plus a Wand of Enlarge Person (for the Monk) at 750. (Seriously, you're going to need it). Use the remainder for utility scrolls like Shield, Grease, and Feather Fall - stuff you need once in a while but really hurt you when you don't have it.

Spell selection. In general, I'd shy away from relying specifically on Fire damage. It's one of the most common types for monsters to be immune to. You'll get all 0-level, plus ... 8? first level, for free at level 1. (Base Int seems to be 18, with +2 racial to give a +20 - or was it 17 to start with, and you put the stat bump at level 4 into Int?) Anyway, I'd suggest...

Grease, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Color Spray, Sleep, Ray of Enfeeblement, Protection from Evil, Burning Hands (Drop this one if you only get 7 free).

For the other free level-ups:
2 - Comprehend Languages
2 - Obscuring Mist
3 - Glitterdust
3 - Mirror Image
4 - Web
4 - Acid Arrow (Normally I wouldn't suggest it, but damage...)
5 - Dispel Magic
5 - Lightning Bolt

So, you'll have damage options for Fire, Acid, and Lightning; plus a whole bunch of utility spells and Save or Sucks. Your priorities for the next few spells are Fly, Haste, Fireball, and Greater Magic Weapon. Again, I'd normally put Fly way before Lightning Bolt, but if you're really hurting for damage dealers, you'll want it sooner.

The house rules are magic is "rare" and that the GM is a ****. We do everything via the dice cause we all believe the dice tell a story. We all rolled for class without getting any duplicates. I was going to have to be a ranger however 4 melee would have gotten thrashed.... He has let in somethings from SRD for the monk to make him a little stronger and gave the monk warrior bab.

Yes i had a 17 to start for Int plus to 2 racially and 1 from level 4.

Do you like the pearl of power over +2 int widget? or were you talking about geting both.

Thanks again.

[gnomercy]

Stay wizard and focus on debuffs and buffs. The monk will do well enough if he is fighting blind and held opponents. :smallbiggrin:

You are really looking for Treantmonk's God Guide, rather than batman here. Transmutation or Conjuration specialist (your choice, you will want to cast one spell of each school at each level anyway. Ban your choice of Evocation, Enchantment, or Necromancy.

For your spells:

3rd
Haste or Slow*(I prefer haste first, since Stinking Cloud fills the Slow role most of the time).
Stinking Cloud
Dispel Magic* (Ideally the Cleric should do this until you have moer 3rd level spells)

2nd
Alter Self (This is how you fly for now)
Rope Trick (Don't sleep outside)
Web
Glitterdust
Mirror Image* (If you can swing a scroll for scribing)

1st
Enlarge Person
Grease
Mage Armor
Shield
Alarm
Unseen Servant


There are others that you want, but get these first. Also, you should have a Lesser Rod of Extend for your Mage Armor, Rope Trick, and one other spell, maybe Alter Self if you are relying on Trog NA bonuses.

I really think haste is strong. and summon monster 3... I was going to take SF conj and aug summoning.

Any other thoughts on feats?

[Tr011]

Cleric, rogue and monk in the party?

You are level 5, you should get some Pearls of Power I, spellbook protection, +int item and Vestment of Resistance +1.
Your important spells are Enlarge Person for the monk and Grease (-4 AC, balance check without 5 ranks from opponent means he is flatfooted and your rogue can use sneak attack).
Level 2 spells could be See invisible and Invisibility. Invis is really great for your rogue. And Blindness is cool because the enemy can't hit anymore and is flatfooted (your rogue kills the enemy with ease then).
Alter Self is extremly powerful and should be in your list.
Level 3 spells should be Haste (extremly nice for your monk and rogue).

[dextercorvia]

I really think haste is strong. and summon monster 3... I was going to take SF conj and aug summoning.

Any other thoughts on feats?

Summon Monster III has some gems, but I don't like 1 round casting times for combat spells.

SF Conjuration is a solid choice in core. Probably building up your Metamagic repertoire. In core, I like quicken and extend, but extend is really cheap to get on a rod or 3.

I might even opt for GSF in core, and maybe Empower spell. I like empower for things you wouldn't normally think of, like Color Spray, and Mirror Image. Your feat slots are front loaded, but most metamagic and item creation feats won't really be useful for a couple more levels. Take them, and rely on your spells until then.

1 SF Conj
3 GSF Conj
5 Empower Spell
6 Extend Spell
9 Quicken Spell

You can trade Extend for Craft Wondrous items if you will have the downtime for that route.

[dextercorvia]

Cleric, rogue and monk in the party?

You are level 5, you should get some Pearls of Power I, spellbook protection, +int item and Vestment of Resistance +1.
Your important spells are Enlarge Person for the monk and Grease (-4 AC, balance check without 5 ranks from opponent means he is flatfooted and your rogue can use sneak attack).
Level 2 spells could be See invisible and Invisibility. Invis is really great for your rogue. And Blindness is cool because the enemy can't hit anymore and is flatfooted (your rogue kills the enemy with ease then).
Alter Self is extremly powerful and should be in your list.
Level 3 spells should be Haste (extremly nice for your monk and rogue).

Lesser Rod of Extend is better than 3 Pearls of Power I at this point. He can extend up to 3rd level spells, giving him essentially the same effect but on higher level spells.

If he takes Craft Wondrous, he can craft his PoPs for 1/2 price, opening up higher level options, long before he could craft a metamagic rod.

[Telonius]

I was thinking you should get both the pearl and the Int item. If you have to pick one or the other, go with the Int item. At this level, they do almost exactly the same thing (both will give you an additional level 2 spell) but the Int item also helps you on knowledge checks, and you don't have to cast the same spell twice.

So just how rare is magic in this world? Are level-3 scrolls difficult to find? If they are you might want to swap out the Pearl for some spells known. (The DM will probably give you less of a hassle if you have them in your spellbook when the whole thing starts, than if you have to go hunt them down in-game).

For Feats, you get one at 1, 3, and a bonus at 5. Is this a short-run campaign, or a longer one? If it's longer, and if the magic level is truly low, you might want to look into item crafting. Theory being, if you can't buy it, make it.

Does the DM have a history of screwing with the caster? Eschew Materials and Spell Mastery (for when Random Monster #38 eats your spellbook and component pouch) might be advisable. I'd really only suggest these if the DM is being a total jerk; they're useless otherwise. But from the little you've described it seems like it might be an issue.

Other good feats for a Wizard are Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Concentration), Spell Focus, or Spell Penetration.

[Tr011]

Another good feat: Quick Draw. But it's less useful in Core only because there are no immediate action spells.

[dextercorvia]

Another good feat: Quick Draw. But it's less useful in Core only because there are no immediate action spells.

How would Quick Draw help you with Immediate Action spells? Free actions can only be performed during your turn.

Also, Feather Fall.

[gnomercy]

I was thinking you should get both the pearl and the Int item. If you have to pick one or the other, go with the Int item. At this level, they do almost exactly the same thing (both will give you an additional level 2 spell) but the Int item also helps you on knowledge checks, and you don't have to cast the same spell twice.

So just how rare is magic in this world? Are level-3 scrolls difficult to find? If they are you might want to swap out the Pearl for some spells known. (The DM will probably give you less of a hassle if you have them in your spellbook when the whole thing starts, than if you have to go hunt them down in-game).

Other good feats for a Wizard are Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Concentration), Spell Focus, or Spell Penetration.

OK well lemme start by giving you the level of **** the GM is.... He kills our druids animal companion then interrupts him as hes trying to get another one. Then we try and leave where we are to get somewhere safer and he makes us fight a covey of hags and we are already down spells from fighting a huge Elemental. They tri cast and put the paladin in a force cage. Leaving me(cleric at time), druid down spells and no companion and sorcerer down many spells. Needless to say it was a TPK. As for magic.... any magic items we have been ABLE to buy so far have cost us 15% more generally. I would love to take craft so i can make things on the down time. Also he has been random rolling loot(dice tell a story) so we are getting lots of scrolls and potions.

I was thinking of Getting +2 widget and a Rod of Empower if he lets me. Which would be 7 out of 9k. Then possibly buy some 3rd levels scrolls....

Anything else i should carry on my BM util belt?

[dextercorvia]

You mean Rod of Extend, right? Empower is nice to have, but it isn't in the budget right now.

Instead of GSF, you should take Eschew Materials. Also, don't bother with summoning a familiar. They are nice, but if he likes to target pets, that is XP you could be spending on crafting.

Change my recommendations to:

1: Eschew Materials
3: SF: Conjuration
5:Craft Wondrous
6:Empower Spell
9:Quicken Spell

Take scrolls of utility spells that you might need, but not every day, like Comprehend Languages.

[gnomercy]

What are the most useful of the summon monsters. I was going to take augment summoning at level one instead of the eschew materials. I think the +4 is nice to have on the meat shields.

Thank again.

[Piggy Knowles]

What are the most useful our of the summon monsters. I was going to take augment summoning at level one instead of the eschew materials. I think the +4 is nice to have on the meat shields.

Thank again.

More than 6 years ago, I put together this guide (http://web.archive.org/web/20070602145513/http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=565674) to the Summon Monster line, where I went into detail on each and every core summons.

You can also check out this thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872758/Mastering_the_Malconvoker?post_id=338474262#338474 262), which focuses on the non-core Malconvoker, but also goes into great detail on the various summons at each level.

[MrRigger]

This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11186) should be a good link to start you off. Read it, love it, live it.

MrRigger

[dextercorvia]

What are the most useful our of the summon monsters. I was going to take augment summoning at level one instead of the eschew materials. I think the +4 is nice to have on the meat shields.

Thank again.

I don't count much on summons, so someone can correct me, but I don't find it that useful unless you are throwing down a dedicated summoning build.

Components on the other hand... nearly every spell requires one, and if your DM likes to pick on class weaknesses, expect to be locked up or shipwrecked or something.