Evil Classes and Prestiges

[rmaunus]

What are some good classes and prestige classes for an evil campaign? I'm leaning towards being a spell caster of some sort, but I'm open to any and all ides.

They can be 3.5 and Pathfinder classes.

[Elric VIII]

What is your starting level? Ur-Priest is a great Evil class. Something like Wizard 4/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Wizard +3 gets you Wizard 18 casting with 9th level divine spells.

[rmaunus]

Sorry, we're starting at level 3.

[Otomodachi]

Avoid Paladin of Slaughter, as in my opinion the code for that Paladin variant forces you to act like the kind of person noone wants at their gaming table.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Cleric is always a good choice. Use the spontaneous domain casting variant in PH2 instead of spontaneously casting Inflicts. A Cleric of Zarus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a) with the Strength and War domains makes an amazing melee caster. I'd go something like Cleric 6/ Divine Oracle 4/ Contemplative 10, and get the Law and Destiny domains via Contemplative. Say you visited the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get the feat prerequisite for Divine Oracle for 2,000 gp so you don't have to waste a feat on it. Get Extend, Persist, and DMM: Persist starting out, and definitely pick up Power Attack.

Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror is pretty decent, especially if you're a Necropolitan (LM) or take the feat Tomb-Tainted Soul (LM). Your whole party can get one of those two and benefit from your at-will negative energy touch.

[Telonius]

Tainted Scholar is in the top shelf of power, next to Beholder Mage, and just a few steps below truly ridiculous levels of theoretical optimization. Brokenly good. I'd say to only use it if you're not going to abuse it ... but if you're being evil, where's the fun in that? :sabine:

[Giegue]

If you like undead and commanding minions, I highly recommend the Dread Necromancer. While the says the alignment is any non-good instead of any evil, it's bread and butter spells all have the [evil] descriptor so it's really a villainous class in the end. It's not as broken as, say, a wizard or cleric, but you basically get to be the best necromancer in the game. You get to control more undead then anybody else(a literal army at high levels.) and at level 20 automatically become a lich, and get a free phylactery to boot. Your spell list is small and focused on necromancy, but your class allows you to expand it somewhat. All and all, if you like necromancy, Dread Necro is THE class for you. However, if your not into the whole "command legions of undead" thing then here are a few other ideas you may like...

-Ur-Priest: While mentioned, it's a fun, fun class. Stealing power from the gods is always cool.

-Maho-Tsukai: The Tainted Scholar for shugenjas. Fun class that gets better if it's allowed it's exclusive spells from D20 Rokugon. Sadly this class makes no sense outside of an oriental campaign.

-Enchanter Wizard: Enchantment is underrated as a villainous school IMO. Everybody thinks necromancy is the number 1 choice for wizards looking to be evil. Sure, playing with evil creatures and dark energy makes you bad, but mind-raping people on a regular basis just makes you a total monster. If you go this route the first 9th level spell you will pick will be mind-rape, no questions asked. Also take the social proficiency ACF so you can manipulate people without magic.

-Fiend-blooded: Because being a sorcerer with draconic blood is not eeevvviiilll enough make yourself decended from fiends instead. Nice class with a demonic/devilish flavor that can allow you to get your hands on some good evil spells. I personally like the hellfire spells from the devil-based domain along with true dominate and monstrous thrall. Either way a fun class if you go sorc instead of wizard.

-Nightmare Spinner: be Darkrai or Freddy Kruger and inflict nightmares on your opponent. While enchantment and necromancy are usually more "evil" then illusion the nighmare spinner makes an illusionist into a fear-inducing villain(literally). While not made exclusively for villainous characters, it has a villainous feel since it makes use of fear and nightmares.

-Thrallheard: If your not oppose to psionics, this class makes an AWESOME villain. Like the enchanter wizard, you mind-rape people a lot. Unlike the enchanter wizard you actually mind-rape people into being your personal army. Kinda like the dread necromancer, but for the living instead of the undead. You get lots and lots of mind-slave mooks to do your bidding and even get special cohorts. You are the ultimate master of mind control. However, be warned, this is a psionic class...which could be an issue depending on your DM.

-Anima Mage: Another non-good class, this time an arcane caster/binder theurge. Binders while not necessarily evil have a spooky feel to them and deal with some very creepy beings and powers that have an almost lovecraftian feel. Combined with the power of arcane casting you could have a very unsettling and evil character who seeks to use both vestiges and arcane magic to achieve his goals.

There are plenty of others, but those come up of the top of my head.

[Elric VIII]

Another use of Ur-Priest that I like is that it makes True Necromancer not suck.

Of course, this depends on whether Arcane Disciple counts as "access to the Death domain."

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Another use of Ur-Priest that I like is that it makes True Necromancer not suck.

Of course, this depends on whether Arcane Disciple counts as "access to the Death domain."

If you get the Domain Power ACF in CC at Wizard 5, along with Arcane Disciple, there shouldn't be any room for argument. Even using Ur-Priest, True Necromancer beyond six levels will still suck, because you won't even get 9th level arcane spells before 20th.

[Elric VIII]

If you get the Domain Power ACF in CC at Wizard 5, along with Arcane Disciple, there shouldn't be any room for argument. Even using Ur-Priest, True Necromancer beyond six levels will still suck, because you won't even get 9th level arcane spells before 20th.

Good point about the domain granted power. Although you would miss out on that amazing Wail of the Banshee SLA capstone. :smallwink:

Right, but you get 9th level divine by 16 and have some nice CL boosts (plus, Divine classes can already CL boost really well). I find that the Cleric spell list lends itself to being a better necromancer, anyway. True, it's not as good as other theurgy options, but I figure a great class + a crappy class = playable. Technically, you're still more powerful than a single-class Cleric with this setup, just not on the level of Dweomerkeeper, Bone Knight, etc.

It's not so much about playing a dual 9s build, it's about playing the True Necromancer and being able to necromance (I'm making this a word, now) better than the cohort of your fighter cohort. I see the arcane side as more like a prerequisite and a way not to suck before your Ur-Priest casting gets up to par.

[Giegue]

Yeah, but a wiz/ur-priest/TN will still be worse at necromancy then a strait cleric, and leagues behind a Dread Necromancer. Simply put, if you want to be a Necromancer, you'll be a Cleric or a Dread Necro. Death Mage from dragon compendium is also a good necromancer class if your DM uses it's spellbook by RAW(which would allow it to learn wizard spells from written sources.). Wizards are ok necromancers but generally inferior to DNs and clerics as they take intensive builds just to match a cleric at army-making while the cleric really doesn't need to do anything to get it's army build-wise. Of course a Dread Necro blows them both out of the water, but is a less OP class then either of them since all it does is necromancy.

So, yeah, if you want necromancy, DN or cleric is always the best choice. However, if you just want minions and don't care if their living or undead then a wizard is just as good as a cleric or DN at it since they can just use enchantment spells to manipulate their way to a position of power and dominating a king is a heck of a lot cheaper and easier then raising a massive legion of undead and trying to conquer that same kingdom by force.

[Duke of URL]

Lots of classes make excellent evil guys. In core, almost every base class can be fluffed as evil (minus the Paladin, of course):

Bard - The "evil team player" in that a core bard is all about ally buffing. But he's also pretty good with enchantment spells, and who's gonna suspect the singer of being the mastermind behind a cabal? Gets much better at evilness with splatbooks.

Barbarian - Gets angry. And likes it!

Cleric - Priest of an evil god, doing evil things, for evil reasons. Classic.

Druid - Takes the whole "protecting nature" thing to unhealthy levels. "People" (defined however you wish) are a blight that must be removed.

Fighter - I suck, but I suck for evil!

Monk - See fighter.

Paladin - Who invited this guy?

Ranger - Really, really likes to hunt. Especially slaves/prisoners set loose to provide "sport".

Rogue - The fact that I completely forgot this and had to edit it in is an indication of how easy it would be to make an evil rogue, not the opposite. What's mine is mine, and what's yours is also mine -- oh, and if I think I can get away with it, I'll slit your throat, too, to make sure you don;t try to take it back. I mean, after all, it's mine now!

Sorcerer - Inherits magical powers through some fiendish (or evil dragon) bloodline. Likes blowing things up, controlling them, and/or inflicting pain and suffering.

Wizard - Like sorcerer, but more out of intent than just giving into to latent powers.

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Out of core, of course, you have the many variant versions of the above (e.g., Archivist, Favored Soul, Shujenga, Paladin of Tyrrany/Slaughter, etc.) and hybrids (Beguiler, Hexblade, etc.), plus the obvious choices based solely on class fluff and requirements: Dread Necromancer and Warlock (note that by the letter, neither of these have to be evil, but they're both fluffed that way by default).

Binder is a wonderfully flavorful way to go evil.

Dragonfire Adept and Dragon Shaman both work as followers of evil dragons.

An Artificer can play the evil scientist* role.

In short, anything that's not restricted by alignment concerns can easily be fluffed as "evil". it just takes looking at it from an evil point of view.

*platypus nemesis not included.

[Giegue]

Yeah, I agree with the above post and some of the stuff I discussed in my OP work with those classes. As mentioned, the fiendish sorcerer concept has a PrC made specificly for it(fiend blooded) and D&D wizards, even good ones I find, are usually somewhat arrogant and aloof, evil ones being power-crazed masterminds out to dominate reality with magic. Also, artificers can make interesting villains if you try hard enough. I once ran an artificer who's goal was basicly to create something like Shinra's mako technology...he was studying ways to take magic out of the planet(which would kill it in the process) and use it to power machinery. So, really, any class can be fluffed as evil, but if you want specifically EVIL with a capital E then all the PrCs I mentioned before would do the trick, as well as some others like Pale Master and numerous PrCs devoted to evil deities(Like Talon of Tiamat, the Devil-based disciple and demon-based thrall PrCs from book of vile darkness, Numerous evil-deity specific cleric PrCs ect...)

[Socratov]

snip
An Artificer can play the evil scientist* role.

*platypus nemesis not included.

Oh wow, I lol'd... hard... over the fracking floor...

This, of course, will be something going on my need to play list, also any staff/wand/item i make will be an -inator

like: Sleepinator, or fireballinator or magic missilinator... Oh the joy of the thought alone

[Duke of URL]

Thanks. I was hoping I'd brighten at least one person's day with that.

Which alignment, though? LE is tempting, but I think NE is more appropriate. Stupid Evil, is of course, how it should be played for full effect, and I don't mean that in the negative meaning of the term.

Edit: Shameless self-promotion, I know, but this concept would work well in any campaign where Idiosyncrasies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57241) are being used.

[Coidzor]

Another use of Ur-Priest that I like is that it makes True Necromancer not suck.

True Necromancer should be covered up with white-out in every copy of Libris Mortis if it can't just be cut out and burnt.

It's that bad. Not even Ur-Priest can save it.

[Particle_Man]

Monk/Assassin/Blackguard/Shadowdancer!

What? :smallsmile:

[Giegue]

Odd but interesting combo, though MAD kills it. You need basically EVERY stat to be high on that build. Monk wants Dex, Str and Wis. Assassin wants Dex and Int. Blackguard wants Str, Cha and Wis. Shadowdancer wants Dex and I think Cha?. Every character in the game wants Con. In short, you have literally created what is probably the most MAD build in the game. You should get an award of some kind...

[Coidzor]

I suppose if you meant Evil as in the opposite of Good as in the quality of the build rather than the moral nature of it...:smalltongue:

[Particle_Man]

Odd but interesting combo, though MAD kills it. You need basically EVERY stat to be high on that build. Monk wants Dex, Str and Wis. Assassin wants Dex and Int. Blackguard wants Str, Cha and Wis. Shadowdancer wants Dex and I think Cha?. Every character in the game wants Con. In short, you have literally created what is probably the most MAD build in the game. You should get an award of some kind...

Perhaps that particular 4 class combo could be a secret ingredient in some future Iron Chef competition. :smallbiggrin:

[Red_Dog]

As per words of Biffoniacus_Furiou

Zarus is an awesome "dark fantasy" deity for humans ^^

But make sure to take Destiny Domain. That domain is gold IMO ^^.

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I've noticed the lack of subtle dark individuals in this thread ^^ here are some that can be played in fully Good parties without fellow players throwing a tantrum and still potentially making players "loose" the campaign but in a cool fashion and not because you screwed up every fight ^^=>

"The rationalizer"
Catch phrase~ This has to be done! we have no choice!
Best represented by=> Cleric or Divine Crusader or similar of deity with Destiny Domain.*EDIT, also as per Duke of URL post, one could try Killoren "ecoterrorist " build with a "solid" argument of "I'm saving the freaking world here!" ^^*
Description You come of as preachy, but you are a man of action. Either you do not truly believe that you have no choice, or employ better them than me logic, you will have "Destiny itself" on your side.
Level of anger of other PCs 5/10 You get things done, you do help the party, but especially "good" will always question your motives, but more likley than not, they will have nothing to say to the results.


Liqueur and Lies
Catch phrase~Trust me, I have your best Interest in mind...
Best represented by=> Anything Beguiler or Chameleon
Description: PCs trust you, enemies trust you. You probably got more information on campaign than the rest of the party combined, but they don't have to know that...
Level of anger of other PCs 1->10/10 A properly played liar requires an Internet connection and a willing DM. If you get caught, it might make some people angry. But a good Chameleon doesn't get caught. To prevent out of character heartbreak, you could say, that you are planning on playing a liar and promise no childish "i poison you in your sleep on session one".

No Nonsense
Catch Phrase~ *sticks a knife in a loud library patron while noone sees* Quite. I'm trying to read.
Best represented by=> Factotum Assassin build or a Wizard, particularly Transmuter
Description You don't say much, but when you do, people listen. Its not because you are charming, but because if they don't you won't waste your time discussing.
Level of anger of other PCs 3->9/10 Again, as long as PCs do not see you do vial things, you are in the clear as you are an asset to the campaign like no other especially if you are a Transmutation Wizard. The classic "turning someone into a frog" is an iconic statement. Playing a more silent character would help not to hog the spot light, while letting the party know in character to not ever question you. Beware, this is perhaps starting to get into not-player friendly territory as establishing authority in character is often taken not lightly out of character.

And remember, play for fun, and don't cause RL trouble ^^.

[DemonRoach]

Lots of classes make excellent evil guys. In core, almost every base class can be fluffed as evil (mins the Paladin, of course):

Fighter - I suck, but I suck for evil!

Monk - See fighter.




That cracked me up :smallbiggrin:

[Calanon]

Another use of Ur-Priest that I like is that it makes True Necromancer not suck.

Of course, this depends on whether Arcane Disciple counts as "access to the Death domain."

I have been trying to find an object of worship that offers the Death Domain and doesn't suck :smallannoyed: I cannot Worship for example "Planned Death" I hate worshiping ideals and the such, but worshiping actual deities? That is magical! :smallamused:

EDIT: Better yet, find me an Evil god that doesn't offer crappy domains :smallannoyed:

[Person_Man]

If you're willing to take on the challenge of learning the Incarnum rules, an Evil Incarnate 3 rocks. The main lure is the ability to animate a corpse to make it a Necrocarnum Zombie (much better then a normal Zombie) at will (though you can only have one at a time. But you also get your choice of high DR/magic, retributive Fire damage, Spell Resistance, and a variety of other goodies.

[Particle_Man]

I have been trying to find an object of worship that offers the Death Domain and doesn't suck :smallannoyed: I cannot Worship for example "Planned Death" I hate worshiping ideals and the such, but worshiping actual deities? That is magical! :smallamused:

EDIT: Better yet, find me an Evil god that doesn't offer crappy domains :smallannoyed:

Well not an evil god, but Wee Jas can get you to Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator as a LE character and you can get the Death domain.

[Psyren]

If you're willing to take on the challenge of learning the Incarnum rules, an Evil Incarnate 3 rocks. The main lure is the ability to animate a corpse to make it a Necrocarnum Zombie (much better then a normal Zombie) at will (though you can only have one at a time. But you also get your choice of high DR/magic, retributive Fire damage, Spell Resistance, and a variety of other goodies.

Which leads into the Necrocarnate suggestion I was about to make. Totemist 2/Incarnate 5/Necrocarnate 13 does it for teh evulz, gets you ALL the chakras, an extra zombie and a boatload of essentia to pump into them just by draining a couple of corpses per day. And the Totemist melds let you wade into combat alongside your creations if you so desire. Drain enough essentia and you can keep all your soulmelds maxed at all times.