Character ideas (scout/wiz/arcane archer or fighter/wiz/arcane archer)

[hdestroyer22]

Hey there so this is my first time posting on this forum. I need some help. I'm trying to build an archer character at a total of 13 levels. So I was thinking to go wizard1/scout8/Arcane archer4 for a total of a level 13 character.

Or

wizard1/fighter6/arcane archer 6.

This is my first time using the arcane archer prestige class. Could you guys help me with my build, at the moment I have no idea what to do. Please help me out.

The classes are all for 3.5 and the like books. Thanks in advance

[JackMage666]

Well, the abbreviated answer is "Don't." The arcane archer isn't a very good prestige class. Enhance Arrow doesn't stack with magic equipment, and the only decent ability they get is Imbue Arrow, which is ok for casters, but you seem to be leaning more towards being an archer than a caster.

Order of the Bow Initiate, in Complete Warrior, would be a better option if you're going for Archery feeling PrCs, but really, Scout/Ranger with the Swift Hunter feat (Complete Scoundrel) makes a pretty decent archer in itself.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It looks like you want to play a Skirmish Archer, with some arcane spells. That means you should probably go Scout 4/ Ranger 16+, and use the Swift Hunter feat from Complete Scoundrel. Take the feat Sword of the Arcane Order in Champions of Valor, along with Magical Training from Player's Guide to Faerun to be able to use a spellbook, and you'll be able to pretend you've dipped Wizard without sacrificing any levels on it. Edit: Forgot to mention Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot), which is the big archery-skirmish enabler. Check the google for some Swift Hunter handbooks if you want to know more.


Arcane Archer doesn't give you anything that can't be duplicated/outdone by spells (mostly Greater Magic Weapon), other than Imbue Arrow. Don't take more than two levels of Arcane Archer on any character, ever. You're probably better off just skipping it entirely. Again, Enhance Arrow does not stack with a bow's enhancement bonus, and casting Greater Magic Weapon on your bow every day (or getting someone in the party to do it) is far better than wasting nine levels for +5 arrows.

Whatever you do, do not even consider Order of the Bow Initiate. Just having levels in it is completely counterproductive, the class doesn't work.

Arcane spellcasting just doesn't have much to offer an archery-focused character. A Cleric Archer or a Fighter Archer (with the right items) ends up being a far stronger choice. Arcane spellcasting really only offers extremely cheesy tricks like Persistent Draconic Polymorph into an Arrow Demon (MM3), which the Cleric Archer can actually do thanks to the Spell domain. Arcane/BAB characters are better off as melee builds, considering feats like Arcane Strike and Minor Shapeshift, and combos like Power Attack and Wraithstrike.

[hdestroyer22]

You think a weapon with the spell storing enchantment would do some justice, If I went scout fighter? Fighter for the feats? I like the scout but it's kind of squishy.... Also I don't like the ranger class, nothing a fighter can't do(feat machine)....

then would you guys have any feat ideas?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

With the Swift Hunter feat, Ranger levels become full BAB Scout levels, that also get Ranger class features. Here's a Swift Hunter Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0), if you want to use the Skirmish mechanic to deal damage, the best way to do it is with Ranger levels.

Here's an Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0) that outlines what feats to use, and what weapon properties you'll want on your bow. Being able to get the right weapon properties is one of the most important parts about being a successful archer, which is why that handbook puts feats like Ancestral Relic and Item Familiar in blue.

Archery is mostly about having the right weapon properties, and having a reliable source of bonus damage. Skirmish is one option, and the best way to do that is with mostly Ranger levels and Swift Hunter. Fighter levels leads to the Weapon Specialization tree of feats, including Ranged Weapon Mastery from PH2. Bard is also a decent choice, but it's better to just have one in the party than take levels in that yourself. The Knowledge Devotion feat in Complete Champion with ranks in the appropriate Knowledge skills can be a significant bonus, and a high Strength score with a composite longbow is also a huge help.

For a Skirmish build, Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot) can be used to move and still fire multiple arrows with Skirmish, otherwise you'll want a dip in Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) and to replace two of your domains with Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion. Most often you'll want to make full attacks with (Improved) Rapid Shot and someone casting Haste on you.

[hdestroyer22]

Thanks for the advice. I'm reading the guide books and the feats thanks for the heads up

[gorfnab]

There are three okay builds that come to mind for Arcane Archer.

Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar or Sacred Exorcist 3

Duskblade 5/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Arcane Archer 10 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525.msg69667#msg69667)

Hexblade 5/ Abjurant Champion 3/ Sublime Chord 2/ Divine Crusader 10
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11663884&postcount=122)

[ericgrau]

It's still decent if you don't have a party member willing to give you 24 hour greater magic weapon, which is surprisingly common. It's also decent if you do a lot of dungeon crawls lasting less than 2 hours where the buffer can give you 10 min/level buffs instead of greater magic weapon. Otherwise say please and get the 24 hour greater magic weapon.

I do fighter 8 / wizard 1 / arcane archer X because greater weapon focus gets really handy later. Though you could delay fighter 7-8 until you have a nice magic bow with plenty of damage and you're more worried about hitting. If your DM doesn't mind massive power creep then add on ranged weapon mastery and improved rapid shot for effectively +4 to hit and +2 damage. Even in other builds I'd dip fighter 4 just for rwm as it trumps ranger spells and the million tricks it takes just to get enough skirmish damage to make up for being behind in BAB (never mind coming out ahead).

Regardless of the classes you take I'd get boots of speed for haste and lesser bracers of archery for another +1. They really add up. Couple here, couple there, and suddenly it's a +10 and with that and the endless full attacks archery gets you're getting way more hits than everyone else. Add on a high damage magic composite bow and it works well for damage output. Also get arrows of various metal types for DR and some bane arrows for common foes.

[eggs]

Scout 1/Bard 5/Unseen Seer 2/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 2/Unseen Seer 8 could be pretty neat. (5d6 skirmish, Imbue Arrow for Time Stop abuse, full Sublime Chord casting, some trick options like Persisted Hunter's Eye for 7d6 sneak attack, enough Bard levels to effectively run some Inspire Courage tricks).

But qualifying for Improved Skirmish would require shenanigans (probably involving polymorph and that skirmish bug in MM5).

If you're going for a magical archer, you might also be interested in Dreamscarred Press's psionic Marksman (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/marksman). It does several of the things the Arcane Archer does, as well as providing some powerful control elements


Also I don't like the ranger class, nothing a fighter can't do(feat machine)....
With Spell Compendium and Champions of Ruin, Ranger spells become a huge benefit. There are spells that replicate most of the Arcane Archer abilities (except Imbue Arrow), spells that work like Holy Sword v. Favored enemies, spells to get haste, to auto-crit on your ranged attacks, to use ranged weapons in very close or very long ranges, to make extra attacks or sneak in extra damage, or to replicate Phantom Steed without the flimsy HP.

The base Ranger only gets a few spell slots of each level, but through Wands, the Mystic Ranger variant from Dragon Magazine (gets spells at about the Sorcerer rate in up to level 5 slots) or 2 levels in the Prestige Ranger variant from Unearthed Arcana (advances a divine casting class every even level as well as providing Ranger class basics), you can get enough Ranger spells per day to base a character around. This will generally put Ranger builds at a huge advantage v. Fighters. Especially for something that can combine Ranger spells with Scout skirmish damage. Scout 3/Cleric 3/Prestige Ranger 14 would get the same base Skirmish damage as a level 20 Scout (but be able to apply it to 4 normally-immune creature types), 2 domains (these are big (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773.0)), level 5 spells from the combined Ranger and Cleric lists, Trapfinding, Turn Undead (hello Travel Devotion!) and the extra attack from BA 16 - overall, it should be comparable to a Psychic Warrior throughout its progression.

EDIT:
And if you're into Arcane Archers, the best are typically full casters with only a dabbling outside their base classes. The best Arcane Archer in Core, for example, is probably Wizard 5/Red Wizard 10/Archmage 3/Arcane Archer 2 (levels arranged as convenient) for strong spellcasting and otherwise wasted Arcane Archer levels delayed until after Time Stop, Antimagic Field and Prismatic Sphere give it a purpose and spell level advancement has finished.

At level 13, the best Arcane Archer is probably based off Cleric 11*/Arcane Archer 2 with the Spell Domain or Initiate of Mystra (for Anyspell for Arcane Archer requirements) and Magic or Protection Domains, using Imbue Arrow to abuse things like Antimagic Field or Hallow (or other long-casting time area spells).

*Probably replaced with full-casting 3/4 BA Cleric PrCs with actual class features like Church Inquisitor or Nightcloak or an Elemental Archon dip or whatever.

[Snowbluff]

Clerics are pretty good Archers if you know what you're doing...

[ericgrau]

Requires DMM persist though or you're much behind an arcane archer (or GMW buffed fighter) with ranged weapon mastery in terms of damage output. If you try in-combat buffs instead of persist it seriously hampers your damage.

Full caster X / arcane archer 2 can be done, but it's a completely different build revolving around imbue arrow and casting rather than archery damage.

[Snowbluff]

Requires DMM persist though or you're much behind an arcane archer (or GMW buffed fighter) with ranged weapon mastery in terms of damage output. If you try in-combat buffs instead of persist it seriously hampers your damage.

Full caster X / arcane archer 2 can be done, but it's a completely different build revolving around imbue arrow and casting rather than archery damage.

You could do well without Persist, but it's tricky. The idea is to grab as many different Str buffs and getting a good Str rating bow, and a bunch of other stacking bonuses (War Domain reserve feat and Knowledge Devotion), and put Collision Splitting on your bow, and grabbing Rapid shot.

Also, you're already ahead a GMW fighter anyway. You're the one who knows GMW!

[ericgrau]

Ya but you need GMW just to not quite catch up to him. And then if he has GMW or arcane archer levels or ranged weapon mastery+improved rapid shot you have no chance of catching up. Well with or without persist, to come out ahead you need to get many buffs up without eating combat rounds. Once you blow a single combat round on a buff you lose an unacceptablely large chunk of your damage at the earliest and thus most important part of combat.

What it comes down to is the level of power creep / cheese allowed to match the other members in his gaming group and be fair. People overlook it but RWM+IRS for a +4 from 2 easy feats is a bit cheesy. DMM persist more so. Moving and full attack skirmish less so than both, but it's still a trick. Without any of those allowed I'd do fighter 8 / wizard 1 / arcane archer 4. With any of those allowed I'd use whatever's allowed.

[eggs]

Once you blow a single combat round on a buff you lose an unacceptablely large chunk of your damage at the earliest and thus most important part of combat.
I often agree with you regarding Power Attack's applicability and self-buffs' opportunity costs, but the Cleric has so many options that just aren't feasible to the Fighter that I'm going to seriously disagree with you here.

You laud Improved Rapid Shot + Ranged Weapon Mastery + WF + WS for their +5 attack/+4 damage at 4 feats' cost. Compare to the Cleric's options of Knowledge Devotion + Divine Insight for +5 attack/+5 damage from 1 feat and a couple level 2 spell slots, Law Devotion for up to +7 attack from 1 feat and some Turnings, Holy Warrior for up to +9 damage from one feat or Quicken Spell on even the modest Divine Favor for +3 attack/damage for just one feat (and it gets nastier with higher level options like Recitation or Righteous Wrath of the Faithful).

The Cleric can very easily blow the Fighter out of the water at archery in numeric terms - even without DMM. And in non-numeric terms, the Cleric has the ability to deal with some of the Fighter's greatest difficulties with tools like Air Walk, FoM, Magic Circle Against X and Dispels, as well as gaining various other longterm benefits such as Heroes' Feast, Deeper Darkness and Antilife Shell.

The biggest trouble for the Cleric archer is that without Flaws, it can be difficult to get Rapid Shot at level 1, which is typically the key for ECL 1-2 archers. But from level 3 onward, the Cleric is a reliably better option.

[hdestroyer22]

Thanks all, I ended up making a swifthunter type character. Going 6 ranger/5 scout/2 pally...

Heavy charisma campaign, thought the DM won't admit it. Also he tends to have a lot of saves. Figured why not get the divine grace... until higher levels where I can retrain for something more useful. I figure that according to the guide with the the swift hunter feat, greater many shot, and ranged pin I may be able to do enough damage and have enough cc to keep my party alive. Combine that with the skill tricks, spot the weak point and clarity of visions, I may be able to locate nearly everything. Ofcourse that requires a high to moderate spot check. Which wasn't too hard to obtain. Couple that with the weapon enchantment, force, and the augment crystal of revelation. I should have no problem finding and attacking my foes. Also I replaced my companion for the distracting shot alternate class feature.

Figure with my high initiative, my combat would go like this:
First round: Spot check for anything invisible, cause well our DM likes to use creatures with the invisibility spell or spell like ability. Then spot the weak point. That way I can ensure that my first attack will hit, making distracting shot so much easier to proc for me and other party members
Second round: move and hit
Third round: same as second( rinse and repeat)