Double Checking how LA works.

[NOhara24]

Okay, here's the deal.

I'm finally getting to run a campaign of my own. Wonderful. My question comes from the fact that two of the four of my players picked an LA +1 race and two didn't. We have:

Exiled Modron Wizard (LA +1)
Aasimar Sorcerer (LA +1)
Desert Half-Orc Barbarian
Human Rogue

So, I think the way that this would work is that everyone starts at level one, but in order to get to level two, the Exiled Modron and Aasimar would have to get the XP needed to get to level three? Help me out please :smallfrown:

[Jeraa]

The aasimar and the modron are not 1st level characters. They are already 2nd level characters (1 class level, +1 level adjustment), who both have 1,000xp already.

[NOhara24]

The aasimar and the modron are not 1st level characters. They are already 2nd level characters (1 class level, +1 level adjustment), who both have 1,000xp already.

Wait, really? How is level adjustment even a bad thing then?

[Deathslayer7]

As said above

ECL = LA + CL + RHD

In words,

Effective Character Level is equal to Level Adjustment plus class levels plus racial hit die (if any).

So your sorcerer and wizard are at level 2, and thus are already ahead by a level. They should also be fighting ECL 2 challenges rather than ECL 1. The problem here though is that your ECL 1 characters might feel that they can't contribute to such a fight.

The easiest solution to this is to start your barbarian and rogue at level two to compensate for that LA, or have them take an LA +1 template as well.

edit: to answer your question. LA usually replaces class levels. At higher levels, the LA typically isn't worth what one class level can provide. In the beginning they are great though.

EX: at level 20, you could have a character who is a straight wizard (i.e all 20 levels) OR have a level 16 wizard with a +4 LA OR have a level 16 wizard with a +2 LA and 2 RHD.

All of these are considered 20th level characters. The 20th level wizard though has more spells, higher damage output, higher caster level and so on.

[Ashtagon]

Wait, really? How is level adjustment even a bad thing then?

They are 2nd level characters, while the others are 1st level. So they will earn less XP in each encounter.

That's the theory anyway. In practice, the difference will flatten out after about two earned levels of gameplay.

[NOhara24]

As said above

ECL = LA + CL + RHD

In words,

Effective Character Level is equal to Level Adjustment plus class levels plus racial hit die (if any).

So your sorcerer and wizard are at level 2, and thus are already ahead by a level. They should also be fighting ECL 2 challenges rather than ECL 1. The problem here though is that your ECL 1 characters might feel that they can't contribute to such a fight.

The easiest solution to this is to start your barbarian and rogue at level two to compensate for that LA, or have them take an LA +1 template as well.

edit: to answer your question. LA usually replaces class levels. At higher levels, the LA typically isn't worth what one class level can provide. In the beginning they are great though.

I'll make a note of that then...interesting. Thanks for the help, all. What about WBL, would they already have the coin on them? Or would I just start them as if they were level one normally?

[Namfuak]

If you are starting at level 2:

The two people with +1 LA will only get one class level, so the aasimar would have 1 LA and 1 level of sorcerer, for an ECL of 2. This is the same ECL as the Orc with 2 levels of barbarian. And yes, to get the second sorcerer level the Aasimar would have to get 3000 xp, like the Orc (for a total of 6000 xp total).

If you are starting at Level 1:

Here two ways you could deal with this.

1. The two people with LA don't gain xp until the other party members get to 2 ECL, or

2. Give both of the players with LA 1 level of RHD or commoner - I know Aasimar are outsiders and I assume Modrons are as well, so the level would be as follows:




Features

An outsider has the following features.

8-sided Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.

When they get their second level, they would replace the RHD with a level in the class that they are going for.

[Deathslayer7]

I'll make a note of that then...interesting. Thanks for the help, all. What about WBL, would they already have the coin on them? Or would I just start them as if they were level one normally?

That's a DM choice there. Personally I would start them all at the same level AND gold pieces value. Is there any reason why you can't start your campaign at level 2?

But if there was such a reason, I would only give everyone wealth for level 1.

[Jeraa]

Wait, really? How is level adjustment even a bad thing then?

Because while the aasimar and modren are 2nd level characters, and have 2nd level gear, they only have 1 class level. So 1 hit die, the class features of a 1st level character, and skills and feats of a 1st level character.

When the rest of the party gets their ability score increase at 4th level, the aasimar and modron won't get theirs until they are 5th level (4 class levels, 1 level adjustment). Same with feats, and skills.

[NOhara24]

That's a DM choice there. Personally I would start them all at the same level AND gold pieces value. Is there any reason why you can't start your campaign at level 2?

But if there was such a reason, I would only give everyone wealth for level 1.

I can, I was just tossing ideas around in my head. I already told the barbarian and the rogue that the level they would be starting at would be dependent on what templates/races the other players chose. Good to know that I was more or less right, but now I actually know WHY they would be starting a level ahead, and that's because LA takes the place of an actual level.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Because while the aasimar and modren are 2nd level characters, and have 2nd level gear, they only have 1 class level. So 1 hit die, the class features of a 1st level character, and skills and feats of a 1st level character.

When the rest of the party gets their ability score increase at 4th level, the aasimar and modron won't get theirs until they are 5th level (4 class levels, 1 level adjustment). Same with feats, and skills.

Yeah, and one class level on top of LA doesn't mean they're fit for a 1st level party. So while the other PCs get the shiny toys of second level, they get the shiny toys of their racial features (or, for the aasimar, tiefling, and hobgoblin, get to watch while the others get shiny toys and they just get some heavily overrated abilities).

[Deathslayer7]

Because while the aasimar and modren are 2nd level characters, and have 2nd level gear, they only have 1 class level. So 1 hit die, the class features of a 1st level character, and skills and feats of a 1st level character.

When the rest of the party gets their ability score increase at 4th level, the aasimar and modron won't get theirs until they are 5th level (4 class levels, 1 level adjustment). Same with feats, and skills.

To elaborate on this even more. This also applies to Caster level, spells known, spell slots and how much damage they do for spells to. If they could cast fireball at 2nd level, it would only do 1d6 damage rather than 2d6 damage.

This is because they only have 1 class level but an effective character level of 2.

[NOhara24]

Okay, so in exchange for racial abilities, you get set a level behind where you would be normally. That makes more sense.

[Kuulvheysoon]

To simplyfy everything in the future, you might want to look into the LA buyoff rules from UA - it lets them 'buy off' their LA at specific levels so that they're the same level (just a few (thousand) XP short).

[Sir Rigel]

To simplyfy everything in the future, you might want to look into the LA buyoff rules from UA - it lets them 'buy off' their LA at specific levels so that they're the same level (just a few (thousand) XP short).

Which page is this on?

[sonofzeal]

Which page is this on?
This page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm).

[Rejusu]

All your party should start off on a level playing field which means the simplest way of doing that is having them all start at the same ECL with the same WBL. That is to say ECL2 with the wealth of a 2nd level character. Your two level adjusted characters are already ECL2, but the rest of the party is ECL1. So the easiest way to do it would be to let the ECL1 characters start at class level 2 and give everyone the WBL of a 2nd level character.

If you'd rather keep everyone at class level 1 then it gets a bit messier but it's still doable. Give everyone the WBL of a 1st level character and have the ECL2 characters level as if they were 1 level higher, which basically translates into more XP to reach the same CL as the non-level adjusted PC's. It's more hassle to keep track of though.

[grarrrg]

Have the Barbarian take the Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) template.
It is very Melee Friendly.

Then just find a decent +1 template for the Rogue and everyone is back to even.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Have the Barbarian take the Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) template.
It is very Melee Friendly.

Then just find a decent +1 template for the Rogue and everyone is back to even.

Dark (ToM) is a very nice rogue template.