Auction Rules?

[Lugg]

Hi everyone!

In a few days, I'm going to be running a module that starts off at an auction house. However, the rules in the module kind of, well, suck. The items just cost 10% to 40% more than usual, and there's no guidelines for how the bidding progresses at all.

The sole player character is pretty much a tiefling yakuza, with plenty of social skills, and the sole player really wants to flex his RP muscles with him. Plus I'd like to add a little roleplaying and interactivity to the auction, since it seems kind of boring otherwise.

Does anybody know of any 3.5 or Pathfinder books, articles, or homebrew with some guidelines on running auction scenes? Suggestions about things to spice up the action are also welcome!

[deuxhero]

What is the module?

Also:Tiefling with social skills? Is he one of the variant stated PF ones?

[Lugg]

The module is Expeditious Retreat Press' "Shroud of Olindor," albeit heavily modified.

Yeah, he's one of the variant tieflings from Pathfinder. I don't remember which one he used, but he's oni-flavored. I gave him a big point-buy, though, so it's kind of irrelevant which one. He's got eight levels in factotum, which is kind of the bigger deal.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I assume you mean an English auction - keep going up in price until there's one guy left - since they're the ones you see on TV. IMO the auction itself doesn't have much room for RP, as it's just a bunch of people bidding up to their perceived value of the item in question. However, if you represent the auction with more mechanics, Mr. Yakuza can take advantage of these mechanics before the auction.

Mechanic 1: Roll for number of bidders. If Mr. Yakuza dissuades people from attending the auction, then he has fewer competitors to worry about.

Mechanic 2: Roll the perceived value of the item for each bidder. I'd start at 50% of the market value and add d%, so that the range is between 50% and 150% of the market value. Instead of/in addition to dissuading people from attending the auction, Mr. Yakuza could potentially modify these rolls by convincing others that the item is less valuable than they think. Alternatively you could just roll for the highest perceived value in the crowd, but make sure it's increasing in the number of people involved in the auction.

Once you have these two mechanics, the auction should be simple enough. An NPC bids until intimidated into leaving the price goes above her perception of the item's value.

[ericgrau]

I agree with that except for the price range. If the PCs can walk down the street and commission an NPC to make one, the most anyone might pay for it should be 100%. If it's harder to find than that then some people who really want it will pay more than 100%, but most won't so I wouldn't go too much higher or I'd lower the minimum so that some would go much higher but the average is still low. You could say those who way undervalue it simply don't want it and wouldn't bid on it.

[deuxhero]

You also don't get caught up in the moment, mistake the item's value or try to deprive someone else of the item if you commission it.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I figured the items were rare, since the auction doesn't serve much purpose to the seller if he can freely sell his good at a price no one's bid will exceed. And you're right; if a prospective bidder doesn't value the item enough, he may simply avoid wasting his time and leave the auction.

[ericgrau]

You also don't get caught up in the moment, mistake the item's value or try to deprive someone else of the item if you commission it.

That shouldn't be the norm. I tend to be skeptical of arguments based on the assumption that most people are super dumb. You don't get money to bid with if you always waste it for no reason, or at least you don't keep it long. Overbidding sometimes happens in small auctions but people regret it later and usually avoid doing it again, and they are especially cautious on expensive items. When people do get excited about an item it usually means they take a smaller gain, not a loss on it unless they make a huge mistake.

I'd give a small chance of overbidding, but 50-150% means half the people will overbid.

EDIT: Ah but if the items are rare and someone really wants something then it is more reasonable for people to intentionally bid over 100% its worth. Not half the people, but it's reasonable that 1 or 2 really want it for some specific purpose soon and can't be searching around for one forever.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

EDIT: Ah but if the items are rare and someone really wants something then it is more reasonable for people to intentionally bid over 100% its worth. Not half the people, but it's reasonable that 1 or 2 really want it for some specific purpose soon and can't be searching around for one forever.Well yes, that's what I meant. They're rationally and intelligently willing to pay more than they would have to if they could just commission it. I went with 50% to 150% because that will get you something close to the 10% to 40% markup the original mechanics intend (for a reasonable number of bidders), and it can be done with a simple d% roll. You could also do something like [100+2d20]%

[KillianHawkeye]

Mechanic 2: Roll the perceived value of the item for each bidder. I'd start at 50% of the market value and add d%, so that the range is between 50% and 150% of the market value. Instead of/in addition to dissuading people from attending the auction, Mr. Yakuza could potentially modify these rolls by convincing others that the item is less valuable than they think. Alternatively you could just roll for the highest perceived value in the crowd, but make sure it's increasing in the number of people involved in the auction.

I would say that this part can probably be covered by the existing Appraise skill. Keep in mind that everything is probably worth more than the market value due to rarity, since there's no point to auctioning off common items.

[Lugg]

I figured the items were rare, since the auction doesn't serve much purpose to the seller if he can freely sell his good at a price no one's bid will exceed. And you're right; if a prospective bidder doesn't value the item enough, he may simply avoid wasting his time and leave the auction.

Yes, that's the case. The items being bid on are all magic items with history, so the bidders probably value them at more than their worth to John Q. Adventurer.


Mechanic 1: Roll for number of bidders. If Mr. Yakuza dissuades people from attending the auction, then he has fewer competitors to worry about.

Mechanic 2: Roll the perceived value of the item for each bidder. I'd start at 50% of the market value and add d%, so that the range is between 50% and 150% of the market value. Instead of/in addition to dissuading people from attending the auction, Mr. Yakuza could potentially modify these rolls by convincing others that the item is less valuable than they think. Alternatively you could just roll for the highest perceived value in the crowd, but make sure it's increasing in the number of people involved in the auction.

That seems like a really good idea.

I think what I'm going to do ahead of time is make a list of specific NPCs who are bidding on a particular item, and what they'll pay for it at most (between 50% to 150% of the DMG value). If he wants to "discourage" other bidders from participating, or convince them that the item is overvalued, he can lower the maximum bid he'll have to make.

[DonEsteban]

Here are some more options:

* An item could be fake. The PC can detect this using Appraise/Knowledge/Gather Information skills. Or find the real item if this is revealed after the item has been sold.
* An NPC might claim that an item is fake. The PC must find out if this is true using Sense Motive/Appraise/GI
* An item may not be what it appears. Again, the PC may learn the real value social skills to detect this.

[Ashtagon]

First up, any item being auctioned will be unique or special in some way. It it were something that could be found on the market, you'd pay 100% market price and not bother auctioning.

The first phase of an auction happens before the day of the event. Potential bidders are invited to examine the goods. Dishonest auction houses may make efforts to hide any faults in the goods. This is a good time to make Appraise checks. Depending on how well advertised the pre-event is, other bidders may get to make Appraise checks or not. Generally, an NPC won't bid on an item he hasn't had a chance to examine.

The GM should secretly decide on the item's actual value. This should be modified by any special decorative features, antique value, flaws, magical powers, curses, and so on. The PC and NPCs alike should each get to make Appraise checks to get their own estimate of the value, based on that 'actual' value.

Bidding for the item is mostly a matter of a war of nerves between the PC and the NPCs. No NPC should ever bid above his personal Appraisal of the value.