Improving Unarmed Damage (in two dimensions!)

[odigity]

Yes, I'm playing a Monk.

I'm studying the progression of unarmed damage, and here's what I've put come with - would like some confirmation that I've got it right.

Dimension One: For our purposes here, it is irrelevant whether you get to Monk level 20 naturally, or progress your class-based damage partially using Monk's Belt [DMG.248], Monk's Tatoo [MoF.163], or Superior Unarmed Strike [ToB.33] feat. Regardless, it seems that Monks do not progress their damage beyond level 20, so it doesn't matter how you get there.

The progression from the Monk class table [PHB.40] is:


1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 2d8, 2d10


Dimension Two: It seems that increasing one's size increases one's unarmed damage in a separate dimension, and is therefore stackable in a separate dimension. This would include both actually enlarging yourself (as in Enlarge Person [PHB.226]), as well as the Improved Natural Attack feat [MM1.304] (progresses natural weapon's damage one step, as if they had increased in size).

The progression from the Improved Natural Attack feat:


Track 1: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6
Track 2: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8


Putting this all together, I've arrived at the following table (assuming you start as a medium humanoid):

{table=head]Level|M (dmg)|M (avg)|L (dmg)|L (avg)|H (dmg)|H (avg)|G (dmg)|G (avg)|C (dmg)|C (avg)

1|1d6|3.5|1d8|4.5|2d6|7.0|3d6|10.5|4d6|14.0

4|1d8|4.5|2d6|7.0|3d6|10.5|4d6|14.0|6d6|21.0

8|1d10|5.5|2d8|9.0|3d8|13.5|4d8|18.0|6d8|27.0

12|2d6|7.0|3d6|10.5|4d6|14.0|6d6|21.0|8d6|28.0

16|2d8|9.0|3d8|13.5|4d8|18.0|6d8|27.0|8d8|36.0

20|2d10|11.0|4d8|18.0|6d8|27.0|8d8|36.0|12d8|54.0

[/table]

So, if you are 12th level Monk and have Enlarge Person cast on you, you will do 3d6. If you are an 8th level Monk with Improved Natural Attack and have Enlarge Person cast on you, you will do 3d8, etc.

Is that right?

[Elric VIII]

That seems correct. Don't forget Greater Might Wallop (RotD). That can get you up to colossal size. Great for Enlightened Fist builds (it's Sor/Wiz 3).

[Coidzor]

And in the end, you're generally better off investing in power attack and wraithstrike for damage than stacking size increases.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

The fist of the forest prestige class, increases your unarmed damage by two steps.

[odigity]

That seems correct. Don't forget Greater Might Wallop (RotD). That can get you up to colossal size. Great for Enlightened Fist builds (it's Sor/Wiz 3).

That's what I'm doing - Monk + Rogue + Sorcerer + Enlightened Fist. Yes, I know it was stupid, but I've learned so much in the process of trying to rescue the character from my initial ignorance that it was worth it, and it's been fun trying.

Found a thread about Mighty Wallops (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30967). Still a little unclear as to how increasing one's own size category and increasing one's weapon's size category interacts. Is it essentially equivalent?

Either way, we're gonna need a bigger table. I'll go back and expand it sideways.

[odigity]

The progression from the Monk class table [PHB.40] is:


1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 2d8, 2d10


The progression from the Improved Natural Attack feat:


Track 1: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6
Track 2: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8



I've started a second Monk character - this time a Halfling, so small size - and I've found a discrepency.

The Monk damage table in the Player's Handbook says that at 8th-11th level, a small monk does 1d8 and a medium does 1d10.

However, the Improved Natural Attack feat says 1d8 would be upgraded to 2d6, which is significantly better.

So... which is it?

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

I've arrived at the following table

ehrm, actually... you just reinvented the wheel: :smallbiggrin:
Monk Unarmed Damage By Size Table (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Monk#Table:_Monk_Unarmed_Damage_by_Size)

It has to be pointed out, for the purpose of completeness, that virtual sizes (beyond colossal) are possible.
For example, a 20th level colossal Monk with Improved Natural Attack counts as +1 size beyond colossal, thus dealing more damage :smallsmile: (I think its 16d8 but not sure ATM)
With Mighty Wallop (not the greater one, that caps at colossal, but the basic, that has no limit) you are 2 sizes beyond colossal.
There are even more ways to keep this going like being a warforged and wearing a special glove, having the empty hand mastery feat and so on. :smallsmile:

In B4 "omg monks have some potential that I never noticed"

However, the Improved Natural Attack feat says 1d8 would be upgraded to 2d6, which is significantly better.

So... which is it?There is no discrepancy: 1d8 goes to 2d6 if you are going from medium to large (see the table I linked) but in your case you are small. When going from small to medium, 1d8 becomes 1d10.

[odigity]

There is no discrepancy: 1d8 goes to 2d6 if you are going from medium to large (see the table I linked) but in your case you are small. When going from small to medium, 1d8 becomes 1d10.

So a 4th level human monk who does 1d8 gets to upgrade to 2d6 from Improved Natural Attack or Enlarge Person, but an 8th level halfling monk who does 1d8 only gets to go up to 1d10 with the same methods?

That's... not fair.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

That's... not fair.
Basically, by increasing one size from halfling, you become the same of a 8th level medium-sized monk and deal 1d10 just like every human monk of 8th level.