Durkon's Resurrection spell

[Sunken Valley]

The last comic and the one before that have taken pains to remind us that Durkon has one Ressurection spell prepared. Implying that he will use it.

How do you think he will? I'm saying he'll rez or try to rez Belkar

[Winter]

I rather think he'll use it on Vaarsuvius.

Durkon and Roy will not get Belkar back on their plane once that little devil has left it.

[Morquard]

Resurrection works for YEARS after the death occured, so that he has it prepared does not mean "Oh there's a chance for Belkar". Because that chance is there anyway, Durkon would just have to sleep over it for a night.

[Sunken Valley]

Resurrection works for YEARS after the death occured, so that he has it prepared does not mean "Oh there's a chance for Belkar". Because that chance is there anyway, Durkon would just have to sleep over it for a night.

Roy would like a word with you. His spell wasn't prepared on the day. He waited 11 months.

[Spacewolf]

wouldnt even need to sleep on it as it only takes 1 hours for clerics to replenish their days spells and sleep has no impact on it

[Palthera]

They do have to do it at a certain time of day though...

[raymundo]

Roy would like a word with you. His spell wasn't prepared on the day. He waited 11 months.

Well, the problem was not that Durkon hadn't prepared it, but that the body wasn't in Durkons casting range.

[Idhan]

wouldnt even need to sleep on it as it only takes 1 hours for clerics to replenish their days spells and sleep has no impact on it

True in vanilla D&D (although clerics generally have a specific time of day (like sunrise) which is their only time to pray/meditate for spells), but in OotS houserules, I think it's established that Durkon must have a full night's sleep. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) (The same comic suggests, oddly enough, that Elan doesn't really need a full night's sleep -- or, more credibly, that this arcane power is insignificant enough that its loss isn't worth considering.)

[Fish]

The IFCC also established (possibly truthfully) that Durkon had a scroll of Resurrection for emergencies.

[FujinAkari]

The IFCC also established (possibly truthfully) that Durkon had a scroll of Resurrection for emergencies.

No, the IFCC established that Durkon had a scroll with a 10m cast time. If Durkon had the scroll, he probably would have used it on Roy instead of waiting to find a diamond.

[homersolo]

I'm putting in my prediction right now - The reason that he can't be resurrected is because his body leaves this realm and goes into the rift.

[Fish]

No, the IFCC established that Durkon had a scroll with a 10m cast time. If Durkon had the scroll, he probably would have used it on Roy instead of waiting to find a diamond.
No: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html

"Don't worry about the casting time, your friend has a scroll he's been saving for just such an emergency."

[Unisus]

If you read the panel thoroughly, you may find that the scroll is more likely to be a sending scroll, as the fiends say "They'll Resurrect you right away..." with no reference to Durkon, while "...for the dwarf to cast Sending..." is followed by the comment on the scroll.

[MyNameIsSecret]

If you read the panel thoroughly, you may find that the scroll is more likely to be a sending scroll, as the fiends say "They'll Resurrect you right away..." with no reference to Durkon, while "...for the dwarf to cast Sending..." is followed by the comment on the scroll.

This is what I thought too.

[Fish]

The casting time of either spell is 10 minutes; it could be either.

[lio45]

But that panel shows Durkon casting Sending with a scroll in his hand... and wouldn't a scroll of Resurrection be a bit much for PCs of their level? Sending's way more likely, everything being considered (main argument for Sending being the wording used by the IFCC, as pointed out by Unisus.)

[KillianHawkeye]

But that panel shows Durkon casting Sending with a scroll in his hand... and wouldn't a scroll of Resurrection be a bit much for PCs of their level? Sending's way more likely, everything being considered (main argument for Sending being the wording used by the IFCC, as pointed out by Unisus.)

A scroll of Ressurection is not beyond the level of PCs who can cast Ressurection. Durkon could make it himself if he has the Scribe Scroll feat.

[Kish]

The IFCC also established (possibly truthfully)
If it's not truthful for certain, then it's not "established."

[Mr. Pants]

Seems that people think he's going to resurrect one of his teammates...:smallconfused:

[Particle_Man]

Elan or Haley. Because Elan is guaranteed a happy ending.

[Biggoron]

There is no way Belkar is getting ressurected.


Sorry but the oracle is very clear about it in strip #572 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html) he says "Belkar will draw his last breath -ever- before the end of this year."

[Eigenclass]

The casting time of either spell is 10 minutes; it could be either.

No, that's not accurate. Considering that this his is true:

But that panel shows Durkon casting Sending with a scroll in his hand

...And that Director Nero says:

Don't worry about the casting time, your friend has been saving a scroll...

Casting time, not casting times, and a scroll, not scrolls.

From this, we are given to understand the following:

To spells are mentioned in this context, Resurrection & Sending, both with a 10-minute duration.
Durkon only has a scroll for one of them.
The scroll that is pictured must be Sending, as we see a live Vaarsuvius dictating the message while the scroll is used.


Ergo, Durkon has been saving a Sending scroll. There is no Resurrection scroll - at least not one that's hinted at by this strip.

Anyway, isn't the actual rule that the activation duration of completing a spell from a medium (such as a scroll) is the same as the casting time for the spell? If this doesn't apply in the OOTSverse, and Durkon has Scribe Scroll, why would he Durkon ever prepare Resurrection instead of hauling it around as a scroll? The cost to scribe is paltry compared to the material component cost that he'd have to pay anyway.

[Kish]

Ergo, Durkon has been saving a Sending scroll.

Extremely unlikely. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0733.html)

If this doesn't apply in the OOTSverse, and Durkon has Scribe Scroll, why would he Durkon ever prepare Resurrection instead of hauling it around as a scroll? The cost to scribe is paltry compared to the material component cost that he'd have to pay anyway.
You realize he'd have to provide the diamonds each time he created a scroll, right? He prepares the spell instead of making a bunch of scrolls of it because he'd rather not throw away his XP like that.

And while I am baffled that anyone is taking the IFCC's word about what scrolls Durkon does or doesn't have (but hey, a lot of people insisted that The Comic Said Vaarsuvius just got chosen randomly for the Soul Splice, until Qaar explicitly pointed out how absurd that claim by the fiends was), I'm pretty sure we can believe them about game mechanics which even trance-deprived Vaarsuvius would have immediately called them out on if they'd lied about.

[Eigenclass]

You realize he'd have to provide the diamonds each time he created a scroll, right?

Yes, that was rather the crux of my argument. Compared to the material cost (10,000 gp), the cost to scribe a 7th level spell for a 13th level cleric is what, 1100-something gp and 91 XP. That's a mere 10% markup in material cost + about 5% of a same-level encounter for freeing up your best spell slot. Why wouldn't you do this every opportunity you had?

And also, the strip you linked uses the limited castings of Sending as its punchline, and the scroll very likely didn't come up because of Rule of Funny.

I'm actually disinclined to believe that the fiends were telling the truth, myself - it was Director Nero, not Director Lee, who said anything about the scroll, so the Lawful fiend technically would not have lied even if the daemon did.

But if we're going to say that strip 634 has any kernel of truth about scrolls at all, it's a Sending scroll, not Resurrection, that Durkon is clearly holding in panel 11 while a very much alive V is dictating a message.

[Sunken Valley]

Extremely unlikely. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0733.html)

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html

Durkon still has the sending scroll (or Malack gave him one).

The scroll the fiends mentioned was the sending scroll because V did not know resurrection lasted 10 minutes.

[Gurgeh]

On top of that, we're not actually sure that the names of the fiends are indicative of alignment, potential puns aside - Sabine is referred to as "a succubus that has been working under Director Lee", which implies that Lee is the demon, not the devil.

[Polixenes]

There is no way Belkar is getting ressurected.


Sorry but the oracle is very clear about it in strip #572 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html) he says "Belkar will draw his last breath -ever- before the end of this year."

Nothing to stop Belkar from being resurrected with the spell and then getting perma-whacked 30 seconds later.

[zimmerwald1915]

On top of that, we're not actually sure that the names of the fiends are indicative of alignment, potential puns aside - Sabine is referred to as "a succubus that has been working under Director Lee", which implies that Lee is the demon, not the devil.
Alternatively, the IFCC works like the IFCC says they work: as an organization of all three fiendish groups. Demons need not work under demons, daemons under daemons, or devils under devils. That Sabine works under Lee might be meant to reinforce this aspect of the organization.

[kickassfrog]

1. It's a scroll of sending, as he's holding it while casting sending, and V has already been rezzed, as s/he's standing next to him.
2. No, they haven't used the scroll yet, it'll probably come up as a checkov's gun at some point, if it's been mentioned or referred to so often in the comic.

In answer to OP, I doubt he'll try to rez Belkar. I don't know who else could die, though. Maybe we should be wondering why durkon had 2 rez spells prepared, as well as speak with dead, when they were only expecting to meet the draketooth clan, especially since they had no idea they were all dead.

[zimmerwald1915]

In answer to OP, I doubt he'll try to rez Belkar. I don't know who else could die, though. Maybe we should be wondering why durkon had 2 rez spells prepared, as well as speak with dead, when they were only expecting to meet the draketooth clan, especially since they had no idea they were all dead.
Simple. Durkon had seen the explosion trap, and reasoned that the defenses protecting Windy Canyon would be more, rather than less, deadly.

[Fish]

Casting time, not casting times, and a scroll, not scrolls.
I don't think Rich can always be parsed so literally. What good would it do Vaarsuvius to have an instant-cast Sending scroll but a 10-minute delay before resurrection? None at all — the whole idea was based on speedily getting assistance before the dragon could do much damage. Rich was probably just making a nod toward the rules without getting bogged down in them (as he did when he conflated all types of summoning spells under one name for Cloister).

And that's if the IFCC could be trusted which, as I said in my post, is not a given.

[Winter]

On top of that, we're not actually sure that the names of the fiends are indicative of alignment, potential puns aside - Sabine is referred to as "a succubus that has been working under Director Lee", which implies that Lee is the demon, not the devil.

Lee is the Devil. Rich confirmed it's Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil and that we should not overinterpret who said what. That they do not mind who works under whom really reinforces this group really means what they claim (Inter Fiend Cooperation).

As for the scrolls - newsflash - they might lie. They only want to screw over Vaarsuvius with their deal and what they claim what Durkon has or has not might or might not have anything to do with what Durkon actually has or has not and might cast within time or not.
They are liars, evil and what they said in that scene was only there to lure Vaarsuvius exactly where they wanted him.

[Unisus]

No, the IFCC established that Durkon had a scroll with a 10m cast time. If Durkon had the scroll, he probably would have used it on Roy instead of waiting to find a diamond.

Just stumbled upon it: Actually the IFCC didn't specify the casting time of the spell for which Durkon may have a scroll - they just tell V to not worry about the casting time. And we know that V does not know that Resurrection has 10 min casting time.

[Zerohour]

There is no way Belkar is getting ressurected.


Sorry but the oracle is very clear about it in strip #572 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html) he says "Belkar will draw his last breath -ever- before the end of this year."

I'd like to point out that that doesn't necessitate him dying. There are plenty of classes/templates/magic items that gets rid of the need to breathe. Granted it is strongly implied that Belkar will die, but it is still just implication.

[kickassfrog]

Simple. Durkon had seen the explosion trap, and reasoned that the defenses protecting Windy Canyon would be more, rather than less, deadly.

Would explain the resurrection spells, but not speak with dead.

[Kish]

I'd like to point out that that doesn't necessitate him dying. There are plenty of classes/templates/magic items that gets rid of the need to breathe. Granted it is strongly implied that Belkar will die, but it is still just implication.
Now you explain the "not long for the world" part. And...hell, the fact that the Oracle says that his references to Belkar dying are "the same thing I said the last time you were here, only you forgot." If you want to argue that the Oracle is ridiculously literal and Belkar is going to slip through some linguistic loophole, you'll need to explain why "shouldn't bother funding his IRA" is ridiculously literally the same thing as "will draw his last breath, ever, before the end of the year."

[Gurgeh]

(I call ten minutes before someone points out that only the "last breath ever" bit was an actual proper prophecy with the coloured speech balloon and everything)

On-topic, I wouldn't say Speak With Dead was an unusual choice for Durkon, given that it's a low level spell and he can just spontaneously convert anything that turns out to be useless/irrelevant into healing since he's a good-aligned cleric. He's just prepared for a wide variety of situations.

[KillianHawkeye]

Would explain the resurrection spells, but not speak with dead.

Speak With Dead: because sometimes you need information from an enemy and your obnoxious Chaotic Stupid party member has already killed him.

[Manga Shoggoth]

There is one very good reason why Durkon would not ressurect Belkar (Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales spoiler):

At the end of Invaders from the Fourth Dimension, we have the exchange:


:durkon:: Aren't ye gonna raise your Belkar?
:durkon:4e: We were, but thar ritual takes 8 hours an' around the fifth we started askin' ourselves wha the heck we were doing.

[kickassfrog]

Incidentally, given they're going up against a lich and an evil cleric, does anyone think Durkon prepares Hide from Undead?

[ti'esar]

There is one very good reason why Durkon would not ressurect Belkar (Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales spoiler):

At the end of Invaders from the Fourth Dimension, we have the exchange:


:durkon:: Aren't ye gonna raise your Belkar?
:durkon:4e: We were, but thar ritual takes 8 hours an' around the fifth we started askin' ourselves wha the heck we were doing.


And yet, the 3e Belkar was raised.

[Zerohour]

Now you explain the "not long for the world" part. And...hell, the fact that the Oracle says that his references to Belkar dying are "the same thing I said the last time you were here, only you forgot." If you want to argue that the Oracle is ridiculously literal and Belkar is going to slip through some linguistic loophole, you'll need to explain why "shouldn't bother funding his IRA" is ridiculously literally the same thing as "will draw his last breath, ever, before the end of the year."

As someone else pointed out, only the last breath thing was actual prophecy, but

Not long for this world: Plane Shift. 'Nuff said.

IRA: Belkar's a Chaotic Evil sociopath. Do you really think a retirement plan is a good idea, given how many enemies he has, and the possibility that someone, somewhere has put a bounty on his head? That aside, it could easily be that the market is going to crash soon, so the IRA comment would apply across the board. Another aspect to consider is there is a big difference between dying at the end of the year, and dying before you can use your retirement fund. For an average human of adventuring, there's a 20-40 year gap between next year and retirement.

Granted, it is quite likely that Belkar will die. I'm not disputing that. But there is a huge gap between quite Likely and 100% sure. There is plenty of wiggle room, and it wouldn't surprise me if Rich used every last bit of that wiggle room to surprise us.

[Kish]

If you want to argue that the Oracle is ridiculously literal and Belkar is going to slip through some linguistic loophole, you'll need to explain why "shouldn't bother funding his IRA" is ridiculously literally the same thing as "will draw his last breath, ever, before the end of the year."



IRA: Belkar's a Chaotic Evil sociopath. Do you really think a retirement plan
You do not appear to have read the post you're responding to very carefully.

[FujinAkari]

As someone else pointed out, only the last breath thing was actual prophecy

The fact that someone pointed it out does not make it relevant :P The Oracle has routinely shown inexplicable accuracy with every statement, prophesy or no.