Beguiler Optimization Final Draft (stop on in!)

[Fivyrn]

Final Draft

OK here is my final draft, still need to mess with the skills but I can do that later:

Nobuo Kage

Dark Human LA+1 (Hide in Plain Sight, +10 Movement Speed, +8 hide, +6 Move Silently, 10 Cold Resistance, Darkvision 60 ft., Superior low-light vision)

Str: 8 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 18 Wis: 13 Cha:10

Beguiler 5 / Mindbender 1 / Shadow Adept 1 / Beguiler 3 / Shadowcraft Mage 5 / Beguiler 3 / Something else 2, anything that gives spell caster levels will be better than Beguiler, suggestions welcome.

Feats:
Flaws - Cold-Blooded, Non-Combatant
Level 1 Darkstalker
Level 1 Versatile Spellcaster
Level 1 Spellcasting Prodigy
Level 1 Shadow Weave Magic
Level 3 - Spell Focus Illusion
Level 6 - Mindsight
Level 9 - Rapid Metamagic
Level 12 - Heighten Spell [M]
Level 15 - Earth Sense
Level 18 - Earth Spell

Skill Tricks: Conceal Spellcasting, Assume Quirk, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, False Theurgy, Social Recovery.

Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Hide, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Use Magic Device. As well as prerequisites: Intimidate 4, Knowledge(arcana) 8, Spellcraft 12.

I don't have enough skills for all of this so some things will be pruned back a bit, any recommendations?

Items:
Courtier's Outfit
Full Cape
Leather Armor
Smuggler's Locket
Sheckel Ring
Concealed Dagger
Silk Gloves
Cane
Monocle with chain

Shoulder Bag:
Hooded Robe
Disguise Kit
Forgers Kit
Scroll/Parchment Case
Parchments/Ink + something to write with
Chalk/Charcoal for marking
Small Mirror
Flask of Alcohol - Scotch
Iron Ration
Potion of Cure Wounds of some sort
5 Handkerchiefs

Any money I have left over in a small coin sack.

I still need advice on the last two levels, skills that don't need to be maxed, and any items of note. Thanks everyone for your help and if you have any questions about the build I would glad to answer them.

This has been fun designing my first real D&D character and I hope he is as fun to play as he was to create :D

Edit 2

With the help of my DM a lot of things are starting to come together, here is what I have so far:

Class: Beguiler 5 / Mindbender 1 / Beguiler ? / Shadow Mage 5 / Beguiler ?

Abilities: Str:8 Dex:12 Con:14 Int:18 Wis:10 Cha:13

Race: Dark Human LA+1 (from Dark Creature template, Tome of Magic)
+10 speed
Darkvision 60 ft.
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex):
Resistance to cold 10.
Superior low-light vision.
+8 Hide, +6 Move Silently
Extra feat and skills from being human

Feats:
Level 1 - Non Combatant (-2 all melee) - flaw
Level 1 - Cold-Blooded (+ damage from fire, fail heat related saves) - flaw
Level 1 - Versatile Spellcaster (may use two lower level slots to cast a spell of one level higher)
Level 1 - Darkstalker (creatures with blindsight and similar abilities must make a listen or spot check to notice me while hiding)
Level 1 - Extend Spell (using a spellslot one higher than normal I can double the length of a spell) - metamagic, prerquisite for Mastery of Faerie Enchantment - Thinking of getting rid of this.
Level 1 - Mastery of Twisted Shadow (when you cast an illusion spell you may gain concealment for a number of turns equal to the spells casting level as a free action) - Thinking of getting rid of this.
Level 3 - Mastery of Faerie Enchantment (You may add the benefits of the Extend Spell metamagic feat to any enchantment spell for free) - Thinking of getting rid of this.
Level 6 - Mindsight (You can detect the location, type, and intelligence of all intelligent creatures within the range of your telepathy, 100')
Level 9 - Spell Focus Illusion (+1 DC for illusion spells) - prerequisite for Shadow Mage
lvl 12,15,18 - ??? maybe Spell Focus Enchantment and Greater Spell focus for each of them? I will get +1 DC if I cast from hidden/while the opponent does not have dex added to his armorclass, at level 20 this will be +3 DC if I take 14 levels of Beguiler.

Skills: Grabbing some perquisites for Mindbender (intimidate) and some feats (knowledge-planes, spellcraft), grabbing a few skill tricks and then near maxing these(may be a level or so behind on a few):
Bluff
Concentration
Diplomacy
Disguise
Forgery
Hide
Move Silently
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Use Magic Device

Skill Tricks:
Conceal Spellcasting - (once per minute can use Sleight of Hand to cast a spell without anyone noticing I cast it)
Assume Quirk - (once per minute can remove bonuses to uncovering my disguise from people who know the person I am disguising as)
Second Impression - (once per day can use a bluff check after a failed disguise check to try to stay in disguise)
Swift Concentration - (once per minute can maintain concentration as a swift action)

Items:
Leather
Courtier's Outift
Full Cape
Dagger on belt, one hidden
Fancy clothing and Jewelry
Forgers Kit
Disguise Kit
???????????

Something to note: I had a bit of a debate with my DM about stealth. I was of the opinion that it didn't add much to the Beguiler class since the class features having to do with casting from stealth kind of suck, at least until after 16 levels in the class which I won't get to anyways. I wasn't even taking Hide and Move Silently in the first place and he kept telling me I should take Darkstalker and I thought he was being crazy.

Then I realized what he was trying to say was that stealth in of itself is really awesome, never mind that I was a Beguiler. It is just that I have the tools as a Beguiler (lots of skills, good stealth spells) to be able to make great use out of stealth so I should. When I looked at it that way the stealth I am capable of is awesome even if I don't have sneak attack or anything special to use it for, so I decided that I would be sneaky and he even found a way for me to hide in plain sight.

About the Extend spell and Mastery of X feats: I think I should drop them. The Master of Shadow was originally there so I could try to hide when I cast an illusion spell, but of course you can't hide when someone is looking at you unless you have hide in plain sight... so I got that with Dark Human and then we realized that the concealment part actually gave no bonuses to the hide RAW... he did say as a DM he would probably give me bonuses to hide in plain sight if I did have concealment because it only makes sense. If I did keep this due to him changing the rules on hide in plain sight I would retrain it once I hit the first level of Shadow Mage because they have a class ability that does the same thing all the time. Mastery of Faerie Enchantment is cool but is it worth two feat slots to have my Enchantment spells last twice as long? I feel like I could easily get away without it but I am not sure what other feats I like better. I may add in the feat Spellcasting prodigy as recommended for an extra +1 DC to my spells.

One interesting thing I noticed was that if I take 6 classes out of Beguiler (1 Mindbender and 5 Shadow Mage) at level 20 I get another +2 DC to spells I cast from hidden, which at the point might be really really good. I also noticed that the last spell I get to add to my list of spells will be an 8th level spell. If I dip 1 more level into something that adds +1 to my caster class then it pushes those two things up, so I would get to add a 9th level spell to my list instead of 8th (this happens at character level 17/18) but I would lose the +2 DC casting from hidden at character level 20. What is better?

What I would request from anyone reading:
Awesome and creative feats are really still what I need, and feats for later levels or to retrain earlier feats later on.

Also just general optimization, go nuts, I would love to hear it.

I asked my DM if he was worried that we were optimizing this character too much for the party considering the other players are my GF who has never played, his GF who has a few years of experience but doesn't seem super optimizy, and his friend who wants to smash things (although he seems to have a lot of experience as well). My DM said not at all, he optimized his GF and friends characters and helped my GF build hers and says even hers should be pretty awesome. So guys... go nuts if you have some crazy ideas!

My character wants to rule as high of an office as he can, even rule a province if he can one day. He will be far from the powers that other classes like Wizard can posses but his skill at deception and subterfuge mixed with manipulative spells should be able to get him somewhere as long as he treads carefully. Oh yeah I forgot to mention his alignment is somewhere along the lines of Neutral Evil with a good streak, he is very self serving but he wants to play the game of thrones and he knows everyone must think he is a virtuous and kind man if he wants the peoples support so he plays the part.

If you read this far, thanks a lot!


Edit

I have settled on a lot of things, now I mostly need some help with feats and prestige class options, see my last posts if you want more.

Short version

Beguiler 5 / Mindbender 1 / maybe Shadow Mage but probably just more Beguiler... I am lost here.

Str:8 Dex:12 Con:14 Int:18 Wis:10 Cha:13

Human. Feats:
lvl1 Versatile Spellcaster/???/flawsx2???
lvl3 Obtain Familiar?
lvl6 Mindsight
lvl9 Master Manipulator??
lvl12,15,18 ???

I will max: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, and Use Magic Device with a point in each other class skill that requires a rank to be attempted, cross class into Intimidate for Mindbender requirement. Skill tricks: lvl2 Conceal Spellcasting, lvl3 Assume Quirk, lvl5 Second Impression, lvl9 Swift Concentration.

Character is politically power hungry and will do what it takes to climb to the top using his skills and magic to manipulate or kill anyone in his way, of course while playing the part of a just and friendly person the whole time. He's your best friend!

Original Post

I have had some experience here and there in my life with D&D but I am just beginning my first real campaign in a long time. Our DM is very experience and has been a lot of help but I am one of those people that wants to read every book and know every option before I am satisfied picking something so I wanted to fish for some advice before our first real session this Saturday (we met last Saturday but spent most time creating characters and role-playing the start of the adventure).

Here is the character concept I would like put in the simplest terms: I want to cast non damage spells in creative ways that are useful.

Here is the example I have been using: In Tolkien's The Hobbit the band of dwarves and Bilbo get captured by goblins and are brought deep into a mountain dungeon to the goblin king for judgement. They find elven swords on the dwarves that were made to kill goblins and become enraged. Just as the king of goblins is about to kill the leader of the dwarfs Gandalf the wizard appears from nowhere, makes a blinding flash of light to startle and confuse everyone and in the confusion kills the goblin king with one of the elven swords.

Now granted I don't expect to be that awesome (well perhaps ;p) but the idea is even though Gandalf is an amazingly powerful wizard all he did was really appear from some hidden place and make a flash of light, but it made all the difference.

OK before my post gets too long here are a few ideas we have already come up with. Currently I have a wizard that will PrC into Mage of the Arcane Order to get some spontaneity and then perhaps into Archmage although I am not sure about that. People kept telling me to play Bard or Sorcerer or maybe Factotum but at the time I really liked the idea of being intellect based, now I am more willing to (and even a little excited) to be charisma based.

Spells I like are generally illusion/transmutation/charm/conjuration spells such as grease, mage hand, ghost sound, silent image, unseen servant, etc (I know these are all low level spells). I will not use any damage spells and I am not really interested in buff spells either. I want to trick and confuse people and find creative ways to meet our parties goals.

I don't know a lot about bards but I think their spell list looked decent the last time I looked, I am not really interested in the whole musical aspect of the class though.

I love the amount of casts per day that Sorcerers get but their personal spell list seems so very limited that I would be casting the same 5-6 spells over and over again.

Anyone have any creative ideas? (I have read the batman wizard guide and it is helpful, just wondering what other options I have out there, especially for more spontaneous or more casts per day while giving up a lot of spells that wizards can use that I just have no interest in).

I am rereading about Factotum again right now, even though it doesn't seem to fit my description exactly it does seem pretty awesome...

[Psyren]

1) You want a tricky caster
2) You like spontaneous casting
3) You like bards but don't like the singing part
4) You like intelligence-based, though Cha-based is okay
5) You like Factotum

Have you looked at the Beguiler from PHB2?

[Telonius]

If you're playing a very Good character, this character description is pretty close to an ideal candidate for the Vow of Nonviolence feat (from Book of Exalted Deeds). This feat's shtick is that spells are much harder to resist, in exchange for swearing never to directly harm a foe (real hit point damage, ability damage, pain spells are forbidden; nonlethal damage is okay).

Beguiler is an excellent suggestion. Shadowcraft Mage is another - it's a specialty illusionist whose illusions can become even more real than the real thing. (Google "Killer Gnome" to find out the awesome power).

[Fivyrn]

Psyren:
1) Certainly
2) It is good but not completely necessary
3) Well I like the tricky bard spells
4) I am actually leaning towards Charisma due to skills like Diplomacy and Bluff
5) I am still reading about Factotum but at the moment I am seriously considering it even though it doesn't really fit my original concept I do love the class.

I will read about Beguiler and Shadowcraft Mage next.

Vow of Nonviolence looks interesting but I would also have to take Sacred Vow so that is two feats gone. Does Vow of Nonviolence stop me from doing things like dropping boulders on peoples heads or teleporting them 200 ft in the air, pushing them off a cliff etc?

[Rubik]

Check out the skill lists and power lists of the subtypes of psion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm) (especially the shaper). I love playing tricksy characters that think WAAAY outside the box, and shapers encourage that in spades.

Psionics is a lot like magic only you use the equivalent of magic points from video games instead of clunky spell slots. You can't spend more MP (also known as power points) than you have manifester levels (so a 3rd level psion could spend 3 pp on a single power).

If you don't want that, focusing in illusion is the way to go. Beguiler is a great class for that, as is an illusionist wizard. If you REALLY want to go berzerk on specialization, there's a race called the changeling in the Eberron Campaign Setting that has racial alternative class feature called the double-specialist. You can double-specialize in both Transmutation and Illusion at the cost of an extra banned spell school. Transmutation is great for thinking outside the box as well, though there are damaging and buffing effects galore there.

[Fivyrn]

So far Beguiler is looking fantastic. The spells do the whole mess with people on and off the battlefield along with spontaneous casting. Too bad I don't get some of my favorites like mage hand, prestidigitation, unseen servent, grease, and a lot of other Transmutation and Conjuration spells I like but that's OK, makes it a bit more manageable :D

Any suggestions for PrCs or Feats? I will be playing a Human so Shadow Mage is out.

I think I like the Versatile Spellcaster feat and I am considering Obtain Familiar but I am not sure how useful it will be...

[Psyren]

Any suggestions for PrCs or Feats? I will be playing a Human so Shadow Mage is out.

Not necessarily - the adaptation (RoS pg. 121) lets you open it up to any race.

Regardless of any other PrCs you choose, a 1-level dip in Mindbender is essential. It's very easy for you to enter, you don't lose casting and you gain Telepathy (which can then be used to gain Mindsight.)

[Fivyrn]

OK I think I want to do Beguiler 5 / Mindbender 1 / then perhaps Beguiler for the rest... though I am open to suggestions of course.

As far as feats all I have so far is Versatile Spellcaster for level 1 and Mindsight for level 6, the rest I could really use some help for. I will be Human and flaws are on the table.

My skills will be focused around bluff/diplomacy/sleight of hand/use magic device/maybe forgery or disguise for flavor.

Fluff:
The character is a power hungry person who wants to climb his way into high office though trading favors and deceit/con artistry. A master manipulator playing the game of thrones, sort of inspired by Little Finger from A Game of Thrones... but you know, with magic and telepathy ;p One day I may rule the world but I have to carefully and meticulously get there without anyone knowing about my methods or plans, especially not my party who are good aligned, I am a bit more self serving but I always save face and no one knows the evil things I have done to get where I am. (to be clear he is not sadist, he just has no real morals when it comes to getting his way, but of course if anyone knew that it would jeopardize his whole image so he is very careful of when and how he shows his evilness).

Edit: Psyren - Yes I did figure out the Mindbender thing but I didn't know about the option on Shadow Mage, I will check it out, though I am not sure it fits my fluff I will take another look.

[Krotchrot]

I definitely agree Beguiler is a good fit for what you are looking for, they are very open-ended. If you do want to use the Mindbender it can help with getting Shadow Evocation for your Beguiler earlier than if you were full Beguiler.

Also just look at going Beguiler 20, that Capstone is Nice!

If you are looking to rule the world, you're big skills are going to be Bluff/Diplomacy/Disguise and maybe Forgery. UMD is always a good thing to keep on the table and at full ranks. Possibly even Intimidate in the long run.

[Fivyrn]

Actually the one level delay on Advanced Learning for the Beguiler from taking a 1 lvl dip into Mindbender only bumps the spell level learned from 3rd to 4th at CL 7, and then from 5th to 6th at CL 11. Shadow evocation is a 5th level spell.

Do you think I should perhaps go Beguiler 20? I don't know if this campaign will go that far, and the telepathy seems amazing for a lot of sneaky stuff, plus the mindsight seems fascinating as well.

I can't decided if I want to use the Shadow Mage or not, on one hand it seems awesome, on the other it seems... I don't know, complicated? I would need to find a way to get a 4th lvl illusion (shadow) spell, I could do this at level 7 by using Advanced Learning to take Shadow Conjuration... but to use some of the higher level Shadow Mage spells I would need to use more Advanced Learning and perhaps some feats to get access to spells like Persistant Image, Programmed Image, Shadow Evocation, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Evocation, and Shades which all seem to be big draws of the Shadow Mage Prc, but that is 7 spells when I would have at most 2 Advanced Learning options left, so I would need to use feats... and I just don't know which of those are necessary...

The skill help is certainly appreciated, I really wanted to take disguise and forgery but I kind of felt it might be a waste, I feel more confident now.

If I keep Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Sleight of Hand, Use Magic Device, and Forgery maxed, plus 4 in Intimidate as a cross class skill requirement for Mindbender what can I cut from my list of wants:

Gather Info / Knowledge(local) - These seem like good skills for getting into peoples business to figure out who to suck up to / manipulate to gain power in the area...

Hide/Move Silently - I am not so interested in these for cloaked casting as I am for roleplay reasons... sneaking around where I shouldn't be... but I have a feeling with the spells I have access to these should probably be cut.

Spot/Listen - Mindsight should alleviate a lot of problems with not having these skills ie knowing who could be watching my secret tasks...

Sense Motive - This seems like it could make or break me as an evil mastermind but I am too inexperienced to really know how important it is

Concentration - I am going to grab the skill trick Conceal Spell casting that will let me do an opposed check with Sleight of Hand vs Spot to hide the fact that I am casting a spell (even with somatic, verbal, material, or focus components) which also will not allow an attack of opportunity against me if I pass the check. Do I really need Concentration? I know there are some illusion spells that require concentration to keep them going... but I don't know, is it OK to give this up?

As a Human with +3 or +4 int modifier I am going to be able to max 10 or 11 skills -2 at the start for the cross class inmidate and another 4 points for the prereqs and skill trick that leaves about 7-8 skills I can max minus the 6 I put on my "already taken" list this really only leaves 1 or 2 skills, I guess it should probably be Sense Motive or Concentration eh?

Anyways as you may have noticed I tend to type a lot, thanks everyone for your input on any part of this build, I am still starved for feat ideas at the moment.

[Psyren]

Actually the one level delay on Advanced Learning for the Beguiler from taking a 1 lvl dip into Mindbender only bumps the spell level learned from 3rd to 4th at CL 7, and then from 5th to 6th at CL 11. Shadow evocation is a 5th level spell.

He probably meant Shadow Conjuration, which is 4th, thus allowing you to pick it up at ECL 8 instead of ECL 11.

For your other questions, the Beguiler Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=363) should help. It also includes a section on skill tricks.

[Fivyrn]

I read through the Beguiler's handbook and while it was helpful I didn't like it all that much.

I think if I can think of nothing better I will probably pick up a raven familiar at level 3. He seems useful and I can use him to send letters (sometimes forged letters). How easy/hard would it be to get a raven familiar to steal letters from an open window? *off to go read the familiar's handbook*

[Fivyrn]

I updated the OP with more relevant information, I am really grateful for all your help so far.

[Malachei]

Unsettling Enchantment is a wonderful feat.

[Fivyrn]

Also is there an easy way to tell which skills are worth maxing all game and which skills I should only take to a certain usefullness break point?

[IdleMuse]

As much as everyone here will highly suggest Mindbender+Mindsight (it is, after all, really good...), please do run that past your DM first, particularly if the campaign seems like Mindsight really breaks it. A lot of DMs will really be unhappy with you taking such a combo (especially so early), since it obviates a lot of their options to throw stuff at you unexpectedly. It's also quite obscure, so unless your DM reads optimisation stuff online, they're unlikely to know that's possible.

[Fivyrn]

My DM is very much into optimization but I could also see this annoying him... I think he will like it though. In the end it is up to him. If not I would probably go Beguiler 20 just to get the capstone... But I hope he allows it.

I am thinking that a familiar is not worth it... but I still don't know what to do for good feats. I could do boring +caster level stuff for illusion/charms but meh I want to have something with at least a little bit of character expansion instead of doing something I already do just a tiny tiny bit better.

I am considering Leadership as a feat for lvl9/12/15/18 that sounds fun, someone else in our party is planning on taking it at lvl 6... I don't really need a cohort but followers sounds interesting... but I need to read up on the rules.

Aren't there any feats as awesome of Versatile Spellcaster that I am missing?

Master Manipulator seems cool for flavor but at that point I can probably use spells to easily distract people... though the if I catch you bluffing you have to tell me why you bluffed does seem rather awesome... and I do like the idea of chatting up 2 people while the party rogue sneaks behind them to steal something.

Guess I need to keep googling Beguiler builds until something pops out at me.

[Malachei]

Perhaps your DM will allow Mindsight if you talk to him about its limitations.

I've posted this in another thread:

I think one of the most-often overlooked aspects of Mindsight is that it requires line of effect:


This works much like blindsense


provided that it has line of effect to that creature.

Line of effect is really easy to break, so Mindsight is not as useful as it often seems to be.

[Fivyrn]

Also, and this may seem silly, but are there any good prestige classes or feats to help me with my goals of holding office? I should already be able to get by fine but things to be able to govern large amounts of people, or marshal armies in war would be awesome.

My DM seems very open to whatever we want to do, in the party we have me, the spellcaster and skillmonkey who has a lot of ambition for power (holding high office), the rogue for secondary skillmonkey and sneaky dpser (a deposed leader of a nomadic tribe... we are in a complex city state system... I won't get into it but she mostly just wants to help people), a new player playing a ranger that will PrC into Craigtop archer for lots of pew pew and a nice doggy companion (an explorer wanting to see all parts of the world), and a brutal barbarian that when not raging is very friendly he is the rogues body guard but he has his own goals (He was born in nobility but his parents were killed and he was forced into the slave caste, he is very angry, he wants to tear apart the entire caste and governance system himself, he will be taking leadership asap and trying to tear down the system... this seems like it could greatly benefit me if I control the situation correctly).

The DM says there will be plenty of fighting but the RP and character driven story is what matters the most, and from our one mini session so far I am pretty sure that whatever we can dream up, we can do it as long as it isn't completely broken... so I see at least dying in the attempt to tear down the regions government could certainly happen.

Man I am excited to play again.

[Fivyrn]

Perhaps your DM will allow Mindsight if you talk to him about its limitations.

I've posted this in another thread:

I think one of the most-often overlooked aspects of Mindsight is that it requires line of effect:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindsight
This works much like blindsense

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD's Blindsense entry:
provided that it has line of effect to that creature.



Line of effect is really easy to break, so Mindsight is not as useful as it often seems to be.

OK I am the noobie here but I can't believe this is right, I am looking all over for a discussion of this but according to Mindsight:

A creature that has this feat possesses innate telepathic ability that allows it to precisely pinpoint other thinking beings within range of its telepathy. The creature perceives where the others are and how powerful their intellects are.

Which says nothing about line of effect.

Then it says:

A creature that has this feat can detect and pinpoint beings that are not mindless (anything with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher) within range of its telepathy.

Again nothing about line of effect.

Then finally:

this works much like Blindsense--the creature knows what square each thinking being is in, but it does not see the being, and the being still has total concealment unless the creature can see it by some other means.

Meaning similar to Blindsense you cannot act as if you can see it. But if it was affected by line of effect it would say so, it can't be assumed. With Blindsense you are using your other senses to pinpoint a creature, smell, sound, maybe even taste and touch depending on the situation (in water, or feeling heat). With Mindsense you have a Telepathic range of 100 feet, there is no rule about using Telepathy only with creatures that you have line of effect, you can speak with any intelligent creature that has language even if it is buried underground hence you should be able to detect them with Mindsense.

[Malachei]

I think "This works much like blindsense" is the most explicit reference as to how the ability works.

Also, since Mindsight is very powerful, sometimes banned and appears in the monster section of the book (there's another section for the "Aberration Hunter"), I think the interpretation is a good way to deal with it.

[Gotterdammerung]

The dragon compendium has a list of bloodline feats that add 1 spell known per spell lvl to spontaneous casters. It is worth taking for beguiler. I chose plant bloodline but you should peruse the options and pick the one you like best.

The same book has a metamagic feat that allows your enchantment spells to affect undead. It changes the spells school to necromancy unfortunately, so any spell focus enchantment or other enchantment specific DC boosts won't apply. But it is still nice to have.

If you plan on being hidy/sneaky consider picking up the darkstalker feat out of the lords of madness, so that you aren't owned by tremor/blind-sight/sense.

Also, remember that if an enemy is immune to your enchantments because he is mindless, you can use illusions to fool him all day. For instance, a big dumb spider will still swing at your major image with little chance of making the save to realize it isn't real.



Also, unseen seer can be a fun prestige class for beguiler.

Arcane Devotee is good for a dip.

Don't forget spell focus and greater spell focus. There are also other miscellaneous feats that will boost the DC's of enchantment and illusion.

If your in faerun Spellcasting prodigy is also a good first lvl feat.
(with flaws you can own the first four lvls with color spray + spell focus, Greater spell focus, and Spellcasting prodigy).

[blazingshadow]

but to use some of the higher level Shadow Mage spells I would need to use more Advanced Learning and perhaps some feats to get access to spells like Persistant Image, Programmed Image, Shadow Evocation, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Evocation, and Shades which all seem to be big draws of the Shadow Mage Prc, but that is 7 spells when I would have at most 2 Advanced Learning options left, so I would need to use feats... and I just don't know which of those are necessary...
you only need the heighten spell metamagic feat and the beguiler's silent image spell. you might want to spend another feat (rapid metamagic) to cast the spell quicker but you might not need to if you don't want to blast things with shadow evocations.

if you do go shadowcraft mage you also need spell focus illusion for prerequisites so you burn between 2 to 3 feats to gain the variety and utility of shadowcraft mage spells. here are some of the spells you get if you choose this path (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=0a7mgr00airevrgfrhgh18kis7&topic=7731)

if you get a familiar it will benefit greatly from whatever skills you buy including sleight of hand which means you can send it to steal for you

[Psyren]

"Much like blindsense" is vague, especially since it goes on to describe the ways in which it is like blindsense (and line of effect isn't one of them.) You could easily argue it either way; it's a DM call.

[Bloodgruve]

Forgive me if these have been stated, I haven't read all the posts.

If you're going with Versatile Casting may I suggest a couple options;

Dip 1 level of Wizard, gain a familiar and you can learn and cast any wizard spell you can find and spellcraft into your spellbook. Any and all wizard spells!

Dip 1 level if Archivist, same as wizard but divine spells no familiar. Any and all divine spells!

Take Magical Training feat to mimic the Wizard 1 dip for a spellbook just like a wizard. This is controversial but I argue it works. Depends on your DM.

Each option relies on the generosity of your DM though.

Beguilers are a ton of fun.

GL
Blood~

[Fivyrn]

Forgive me if these have been stated, I haven't read all the posts.

If you're going with Versatile Casting may I suggest a couple options;

Dip 1 level of Wizard, gain a familiar and you can learn and cast any wizard spell you can find and spellcraft into your spellbook. Any and all wizard spells!

Dip 1 level if Archivist, same as wizard but divine spells no familiar. Any and all divine spells!

Take Magical Training feat to mimic the Wizard 1 dip for a spellbook just like a wizard. This is controversial but I argue it works. Depends on your DM.

Each option relies on the generosity of your DM though.

Beguilers are a ton of fun.

GL
Blood~

This works? How can I double check the rules on this? Wouldn't my Wizard spell caster class and Beguiler spell caster class be separate? If this works wouldn't all Sorcerer's take a level in Wizard?

[Bloodgruve]

This works? How can I double check the rules on this? Wouldn't my Wizard spell caster class and Beguiler spell caster class be separate? If this works wouldn't all Sorcerer's take a level in Wizard?

Versatile Spell caster lets you burn 2 slots for 1 of a higher level that you know.

A wizard and archivist 'know' a spell that they have recorded into their spell book. From the D&D Glossary - Known Spell "For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their spellbooks."

A level 1 wizard can record a lvl 9 spell to his spellbook with a DC29 Spellcraft check and some gold, I believe its DC20 + spell level at least.

Once recorded it is fair game for Versatile Spellcaster.

Its debatable weather or not Magical Training gives the PC the ability to record spells in his spellbook. My argument is that if you cast spells as a wizard you must have learned them and recorded them which would give you the knowledge and method to add more. A wizard needs to make a Spellcraft check to prepare a spell from a book not his own.

GL
Blood~

[Fivyrn]

Versatile Spell caster lets you burn 2 slots for 1 of a higher level that you know.

A wizard and archivist 'know' a spell that they have recorded into their spell book. From the D&D Glossary - Known Spell "For wizards, knowing a spell means having it in their spellbooks."

A level 1 wizard can record a lvl 9 spell to his spellbook with a DC29 Spellcraft check and some gold, I believe its DC20 + spell level at least.

Once recorded it is fair game for Versatile Spellcaster.

Its debatable weather or not Magical Training gives the PC the ability to record spells in his spellbook. My argument is that if you cast spells as a wizard you must have learned them and recorded them which would give you the knowledge and method to add more. A wizard needs to make a Spellcraft check to prepare a spell from a book not his own.

GL
Blood~

Oh so I would cast spells that I have previously spell crafted into my spellbook, by burning two beguiler spells of a lower level? I wouldn't even need to have the spellbook around then would I? I could leave it at the office :D

[Fivyrn]

I added my current build to the OP for scrutiny.

I also wonder about being able to protect myself against spell-casters at later levels, what would be good ways to do this? Are there any good feats to increase my saves, or is there a better way to protect myself from a wizard who realizes I am up to no good and decides to try to stop me in my bid for power?

Also are there better ways to conceal my spell casting? As of now I have a skill trick to hide a spell I cast per minute or once per encounter, I will also get access to still spell and silent spell, should I consider Eschew Materials to round it out? With these three can I consider people around me to not know who cast the spell unless it is obviously me due to the spells effect?

I also worry about people seeing through my casting, as in I charm/dominate someone and use them for my purposes, but then someone comes along and somehow (through a spell perhaps?) notices that the person is under the effects of a spell and blows my whole cover and I get hanged for dominating the kings adviser or something. Are there ways around this?

[Hunter Killer]

For combat concealment of casting, Invisible Spell from City Scape allows you to cast spells without a visible manifestation. Other than that, you just want to stay Invisible or Hide (Darkstalker is amazing if you use Hide).

For non-combat, you want False Theurgy and Concealed Spellcasting. They are useable once per minute, so that should be more than enough uses to use spells in non-combat situations.

[Hunter Killer]

For combat concealment of casting, Invisible Spell from City Scape allows you to cast spells without a visible manifestation. Other than that, you just want to stay Invisible or Hide (Darkstalker is amazing if you use Hide).

For non-combat, you want False Theurgy and Concealed Spellcasting. They are useable once per minute, so that should be more than enough uses to use spells in non-combat situations.

[Bloodgruve]

Some feats that I really enjoy on the Versatile Beguiler are;

Add some spells to your spell list.

Arcane Disciple, you gain domain spells to add to your list, wisdom 15 required.

Bloodlines from Dragon Compendium, you gain a domain-like spell list.

Item Familiar, you get some kickass investments, basically doubles a skill of your choice, gives you an extra spell slot 2 levels lower than your max and allows you to make it a sentient item with powers at higher levels. Big drawbacks if you lose it but just figure out how to implant it and your good ;)

GL
Blood~

[blazingshadow]

arcane disciple shadow can both give you the prerequisite shadow spell for shadowcraft mage and give you the spells you need to make higher level shadow spells all while freeing the advanced learning ability for other spells.

[Fivyrn]

Arcane Disciple would be great if I could cast the spells I gained more than once per day and it didn't key off of Wisdom.

Here is what I have after more help from you guys, my DM, and research.

Beguiler 5 / Mindbender 1 / Shadow Adept 1 / Beguiler 3 / Shadow Mage 5 / Beguiler 5

Feats
Level 1 - Versatile Spellcaster
Level 1 - Darkstalker
Level 1 - Spellcasting Prodigy
Level 1 - Shadow Weave Magic
Level 3 - Item Familiar
Level 6 - Mindsight
Level 9 - Spell Focus Illusion
Level 12 - Penumbra Bloodline (gives Shadow Evocation and Greater Shadow Evocation)
Level 15 - Extra Spell - Greater Shadow Conjuration
Level 18 - Extra spell - Shades (at this time I will get my third and last Advanced Learning and plan to take Mindrape because it is perfect for my character and my DM is fine with it... I asked if it was too broken to be fun and all he said was that there were much worse level 9 spells)

What do you guys think?

[Bloodgruve]

Versatile Spellcaster gives you the ability to cast Arcane Disciple spells more than once per day ;)

Blood~

[Fivyrn]

Versatile Spellcaster gives you the ability to cast Arcane Disciple spells more than once per day ;)

Blood~

Ahh that's a good idea, but it still doesn't help the fact that my wisdom is 10 (I might swap it for my charisma which is 13, but that still means I can only cast the lvl0-3 spells from a domain).

[Fivyrn]

OK updated OP with my final draft, thanks for the help everyone.

If anyone has any questions or anything I would be glad to answer them or talk about anything. This is the first real D&D character I have built and it was a ton of fun, I can't wait for our 12 hour session tomorrow to get him in action.