First time nWoD player

[*.*.*.*]

In the upcoming future(after I get some DMing done in 3.5) some of my group is playing nWoD for the 1st time. I've done some fluff reading, but I haven't really had time to research how to make a mechanically 'decent' character. Our ST is experienced and he will be running a multi splat game. I have chosen to play a Hunter, despite all the 'horribly weak' comments I read about them, and model him after the MiB and choosing VALKYRIE as my tier. I'm having troubles deciding where to put my current and future points, hell; I don't even know how many we start with. If anyone has any advice, it would be appreciated.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The book actually summarizes the character creation and XP-cost rules well: the former are even on the official character sheet. It basically goes:

Character creation points
Attributes: 5/4/3, bearing in mind you get one free dot in every one, and the fifth dot in an attribute costs double. Pick Physical, Mental, or Social to get 5, one of the others to get 4, the other gets 3.

Skills: 11/7/4, divided between physical, mental, and social the same way attributes were, though it doesn't have to be in the same order. You don't get a free dot in each skill, and again, the fifth dot costs double, and should really only be taken with GM permission.

Specialties: Pick three skills and get a specialty (extra +1 in certain circumstances) in each.

Apply Hunter "template": All this does is give you an extra skill specialty in one of your "profession" skills, and lets you take Hunter-specific merits from H:tV if you like (HINT: Advanced Armory). You'll need to pick a Profession to determine professional skills; the obvious one for TFV is Soldier, though you can justify just about any Profession for most of the Conspiracies; they need a variety of support staff and recruit from all walks of life, if nothing else. This is also where you write down TFV as your "faction".

Merits: 7. Self-explanatory. Make sure to look at the Merits in both the core book and Hunter: The Vigil. (HINT: Advanced Armory).

After that, everything is just derived from the stats you already picked. Initiative is Wits+Composure (and a straight modifier, not a dice pool - init is the one and only roll in NWoD that works like a D&D roll), Willpower is Resolve+Composure, Health is 5+Stamina, etc. Morality, Vice, Virtue...all self-explanatory. As is, I hope, developing your character history and personality.

XP
For a Hunter, here's how XP breaks down:

Attribute: 5 * New dots (so 10 for 2, 15 for 3, etc.)
Skill: 3 * New dots (3 for 1, 6 for 2, etc.)
Specialty: 3
Merit: 2 * New dots
Morality (representing therapy rather than training): 3 * New dots

Remembering that if you're going from, say, 1 to 3 dots, you need to pay the cost of multiple dots (2 and 3 in this case).

Hunters also get the advantage of earning extra "Practical" XP when they perform well and learn new things fighting monsters. These can be spent on Skills, Attributes, and Tactics, which are, well, tactics that allow teams of Hunters to be more effective. Much like Changelings, Hunters work much better in a group than solo. If you don't have two or three more Hunters in your cell, you're actually really nerfed. It's not that Hunters are weak so much as their strength comes from numbers. Are you looking to have teammates?

Now, as for build advice.

First of all, Hunters in general should try to get Resolve and Composure up to at least 3 each at creation. Partly because these are your resistances against a lot of monsters' Save-or-Lose powers, but mostly because Hunters need a lot of Willpower, which is derived from Resolve+Composure. Hunters have a few extra uses for Willpower, and spending that Willpower point for an extra success (on average) is often the difference between life and death for a mortal regardless.

After that, it basically depends on how you want to try and fight people. I am assuming you want to play a combat character here. If you want to play a social or investigative character as a Hunter, I would honestly just allocate points as you want and hide when it comes time to fight. Mental and social characters are a fair bit simpler and more obvious.

Your best bet is probably shooting things, even if Vampires are bulletproof, since most monsters are especially nasty in melee. You want to prioritize Wits to at least 3 (for defense and "spot checks") and after that go all-in on Dexterity and Firearms (and get Strength up to 3 so you can use longarms and big handguns properly I guess). Spend your merit points on Advanced Armory to get enough special equipment to see you through fights and Resources to cover the mundane equipment you'll need. Any skill points you don't spend on shooting things should probably be spent on things that help you hide or cover your tracks (Stealth, subterfuge, politics, etc.) Remember, you're the Men in Black. You don't exist.

Which equipment you get depends on what you think you'll be fighting. A Mjolnir Cannon is expensive, dangerous, and flashy, but it is good for knocking down almost anything besides a Promethean (and who plays Promethean?) Aside from that, pick up things specialized to what you expect to be fighting. Etheric rounds for Ghosts, Etheric Googles for things that turn invisible, Bleeders for Vampires, etc. And of course, remember to carry normal guns (preferably silenced) for when shooting lightning at things is inappropriate. I'd pick up the Armory book if I were you, but if you don't have access to that, a generic Assault Rifle (or a Large SMG if you need something concealable) is always good. For armor, pick a Kevlar Vest (if no one has guns), a Flak Jacket (for a balance), or Full Riot Gear (if everyone has guns and you don't care about being subtle). The difference to remember here is that Armor applies against firearms attacks, but Defense does not (unless they're literally shooting point-blank). Armor also doesn't degrade as you get attacked multiple times per round, so if you're fighting mobs, go for the riot gear. It exists specifically for that reason after all.

Any specific questions?

[TheOOB]

I'll second focusing on resolve and composure. Hunting get awesome benefits will willpower, which is one of the only advantages they get. Besides that, it cannot be emphasized enough how much mortals get screwed by supernatural powers. With no supernatural attribute you need every die you can get when someone forces an opposed roll to say, take control of your character or make you go insane, if you even get an opposed roll at all(many powers just work agienst mortals).

Guns are your only safe avenue of combat, so you should be really good at them. Even a changeling will kill you in melee, so your best bet is to take you foes out at as great of a distance as possible. This includes vampires, who still die if over 50% of their body mass is converted to lead.

I would actually focus your character on some out of combat pursuit, like investigations, or computers, or something. Assuming your other team mates are supernatural, you'll never be their equal in combat, and you'll likely have someone who is way better at social pursuits than you, and someone who is way better at sneaking, but some areas there are few powers to help with, so you'd do well to focus on them.

Also I know you want to play a mortal, but you may want to look at second sight. Your GM may allow you to have a psychic power or ritual magic in addition to being a hunter. You'll still be weaker than supernaturals, but it's a start.

[*.*.*.*]

Are you looking to have teammates?
I'm going to be working mostly alone, but my ST said I will be able to 'call in the cavalry' if need be. I also may have a supernatural working for me every once in awhile.


After that, it basically depends on how you want to try and fight people. I am assuming you want to play a combat character here. Indeed, I had actually thought of focusing on close range with Akido; but I completely get your point.



Any specific questions?
Is it possible to be moderately dangerous in close combat as well as firearms? Any specific, except for the ammo of course, tactics you would advise against the supernaturals?

Also, Thanks for the advice! Your post was very comprehensive and easy to understand, with many insightful tidbits. I was feeling lost in this new system and I now feel a bit more clear headed, thank you!

[Nerd-o-rama]

You can do decent things in melee, with an axe or with things that deal natural aggravated damage (torches against vampires, silver against werewolves), the problem is that just about any monster is going to outright kill you in 1-3 rounds if they're even a little bit combat dedicated, at which point you may have gotten them maybe halfway through their hitboxes. Again, unless you're fighting someone like my combat-useless Mekhet nerd, and even then, he could probably lay a Hunter out with enough Vitae expenditure. And then, oh look, free buffet.

The solution to not getting killed is to use swarm tactics, fight smart, and stay the hell away from the claws. You can't do the former without teammates, so go for the second two - which means ranged weapons and flamethrowers.

[*.*.*.*]

I see, thank you for your help. I am going to put a few dots for close combat just in case, what style would you suggest?

[comicshorse]

The solution to not getting killed is to use swarm tactics, fight smart, and stay the hell away from the claws. You can't do the former without teammates, so go for the second two - which means ranged weapons and flamethrowers.

And bombs ! Lots of bombs

[The Glyphstone]

I see, thank you for your help. I am going to put a few dots for close combat just in case, what style would you suggest?

Anything that keeps you alive long enough to back away and keep shooting. You're going to be lunch in close combat against anything that isn't a bare-bones mortal, so the best combat style 'just in case' is something like Combat Marksmanship or Sniping, to ensure 'just in case' doesn't actually happen. It's part of the challenge of being a Hunter, but WoD is even more unforgiving than D&D about trying to 'generalize' - moreso when, as a mortal, the deck is already stacked against you. Specialize, specialize, specialize.

[*.*.*.*]

How do Sin-Eaters play? They seem to be a very well-rounded supernatural, how do they compare against other supernaturals?

[The Glyphstone]

Depends on if you have Boneyard or not. If you do, you basically win at life (and death). They can be kinda squishy in a straight-up brawl, but a smart Sin-Eater kills you before you even know he's within a quarter mile of you, or 5-6 miles away at Boneyard 5.

[Nerd-o-rama]

If you must, put a dot in Weaponry and carry an axe (you should have 3 Str already for an assault rifle, remember). That'll let you take a wounded or noncombatant supernatural if you have to.

If you were a dedicated meleeist, a knife + Spetsnaz Knife Fighting style is supposedly the best (for a mortal; Kung Fu if for you're a Vamp+Werewolf and can do agg damage with your hands), but please don't spend the XP for this. You will get eaten.

[comicshorse]

While getting into hand to hand with a Supernatural is pretty much suicide you will probably not only be fighting Supernaturals. They have their minions, Vampires have Ghouls, Changelings have Ensorcelled ( not sure about the others) but they are fairly ordinary mortals who you may have to face and who you can fight on a roughly equal basis.
Also there will always be ordinary people who may oppose you for various reasons (police, crooks, bodygaurds, etc) on whom hand to hand can be useful. Particulalrly if you don't want to kill them.

[wayfare]

I have a character built around the spetsnaz fighting style, and he has survived tangling with supernaturals only through sheer pluck, judicious application of willpower, and a magic sword that can kill damn near anything.

If I lacked any of the above, I would have died in the first fight, no joke.

The Sineaters can be fun to play, but their "extra lives" also have serious disadvantages -- you lose synergy every time you die, and its more or less impossible to get back IRRC. Their powers are great for crowd control, even if you lack the boneyard, but powerful monsters like Werewolves or those darned cheating Daeva Vamps will still tear you limb from limb with minimal effort.

Playing a sniper or a gunslinger who has lots of different types of ammo laying around is not a bad idea. With advanced armory and a resources 3 you can get your mitts on ammo that will be fatal to any supernatural:

-Tracer rounds for vamps/promethians or dragonsbreath rounds if you use shotguns

-Anti-Ghost/Spirit rounds via advanced armory

-Silver bullets for werewolves

-Anti-Personnel bulletts like frangible rounds from norms and mages.

-Heck, you can ever have a guy make iron loads, but thats probably best used for a shotgun.

A few bits of advice --

If you have to get close, go pistol or shotgun.

Go sniper when you can.

Always carry more than one weapon.

If you do get fighting styles with multiple attacks, don't use the multiple attacks untill you have at least 10 dice in your unmodified (Weapon + Attribue + Skill) pool. Its better to layer bonuses on one skill roll rather than making two less effective ones (YMMV, but for harder monsters this is a must -- cut loose with mooks).

[Eisenfavl]

Some tips:
Mages, even from character creation, are impossible to fight in groups. Make sure to separate them from their allies for a day before fighting them, because otherwise a 3+ man group, assuming stamina ~2, has 9 armour against more or less anything, IIRC.
That Dragon Scale or whatever ceramic plate armour in the (advanced?) armoury? Get it. 2/5 with bulletproof and an automatic reduction of one damage from all guns means you are actually going to survive a firefight.
The best combat merit in the game is Resources: you will not be able to fight supernaturals without a massive budget.
Cult of Things Which must not Be is the best melee merit, but highly unlikely to get past a story teller, because you need to run a cult about an elder thing. Pledging yourself to Cthulu for 5 dots can give you 6/6 armour, regeneration, and (with two preperation rounds) a +9 and +7, aggravated and lethal damage dicepool weapons with 9 again. Which you can use together.
Specialisation in a versatile technique is the best path. Firearms 5 with shotgun (flechete rounds) and sniper rifle specialisations gives you a fighting chance; nWOD is really harsh on being spread out. Where you might have Dex 4 Firearms 5 and he has Str, Dex, Firearms, and Weaponry 3, your dicepools are going to be 9 + equipment, his will be 6 + equipment. That is a huge difference in power, on par with going TWF without precision damage in D&D 3.5 . The specialised player is always more powerful.
Some way of stabilising people bleeding out is essential. Nosferatu with weaponry 4, strength 3, vigour 2 and a great axe is an entirely viable boss, and not even heavily specialised, but they would do on average ~5.3 damage a turn before subtracting dicepool for armour. nWOD makes wild damage boosts easy due to exploding dice, so expect the rolls to average 1/3 dice when using 10 again, but range from ~the dice used to nothing. People WILL be one-shotted, and you WILL need to stabilise them. Possibly in combat.

[Tetsubo517]

Some tips:
Mages, even from character creation, are impossible to fight in groups. Make sure to separate them from their allies for a day before fighting them, because otherwise a 3+ man group, assuming stamina ~2, has 9 armour against more or less anything, IIRC.


Just as a curiosity, how do get 9 armor with a mage at character creation?

[ToySoldierCPlus]

The easy answer is with mundane armor and 3 dots in the arcana you're using for your mage armor. I don't fully understand why this requires 3 people, though.

[Blackfang108]

The easy answer is with mundane armor and 3 dots in the arcana you're using for your mage armor. I don't fully understand why this requires 3 people, though.

Multiple Mage armors?

Because personal Mage armor only costs 2 dots.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Multiple Mage Armors don't stack. All you wind up with is an armor rating equal to the highest dots in whatever Arcanum was used on you, and a whole bunch of spells draining you. Harder to dispell overall, sure, but not strictly useful.

[Blackfang108]

Multiple Mage Armors don't stack. All you wind up with is an armor rating equal to the highest dots in whatever Arcanum was used on you, and a whole bunch of spells draining you. Harder to dispell overall, sure, but not strictly useful.

Right, it's been a while.