Long time fighter gone sorc...(updated)

[ojayaba]

So I've been an AC tank most of my gaming days or a bow user and got the idea to try an elven sorc who loves fire, trying to optimize my fire spells and abilities to the best available place i can get. currently level 3 and looking at options.

Any help would be great, any questions will be answered as best I can.

Okay, updates have happened to my character.
I'm now currently a 4th level sorcerer
feats:
pyro(from 3rd ed)
bloodline of fire
elemental casting
fiery burst
weapon focus: ranged spell
eschew materials
precocious apprentice

are my feats, i have all my damage spells for now, just looking at utility spells for my 2nd level spells. thinking "Alter Self"
my Race is actually "Phaethon" from Races of Ansalon(dragonlance) so I'm humanoid (Fire, Elf)
stats are huge as they where rolled and witnessed by the DM
Been granted as a Deific blessing the Fire domain as part of my spells known once I'm of high enough level to cast them.

Always looking to up my Fire stuff some how, also looking to stay alive and be some what effective. Most if not all of my spells have a range of close at this point so I want to have more staying alive power via my spells thus looking at Alter self to turn into something with HUGE natural armor so i can get closer and NOT die as i have tiny HP :(

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ray of Flame in Spell Compendium is pretty good for low level damage, considering it can catch opponents on fire.

For a successful Sorcerer, you really want to get a wide range of spells, rather than focusing on just one thing. You don't really want to ever know more than one spell that does the same type of damage, because if you run into a bunch of opponents who are resistant/immune to that damage you're left with nothing to cast on them. You could get Energy Substitution: Fire, so any of your spells could be used to deal fire damage, but don't just pick all fire spells.

Check out a few guides, here's one (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2180.0), and here's another (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871358/Short_Sorcerer_Handbook).

[ojayaba]

Well, I've been taking only one damage spell a level since as a sorc i can cast it all day every day...
more so looking to find feats and abilities to increase my fire spells DCs or caster levels.
spell wise i have ray of flame already and currently have +2 CL to fire spells using fiery burst reserve and elemental spellcasting

[Namfuak]

Sounds like you want to be the Mail Man.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer

This guide is awesome, though my only complaint is that it doesn't deal that much with low levels. My advice would be when you can start casting 3rd level spells at level 6, instead of taking a damage spell just take the feat empower spell and use it on your 1st level damage spells. They'll do respectable damage, and you can avoid taking 3rd level damage spells until you have a couple nice utility spells (since 3rd level is where you really start finding some gems). Plus, you can combine it with ray of enfeeblement as well and make those pesky dire bears and juvenile dragons with high strength and low dex become less dangerous.

[ojayaba]

thank you!

[Darth_Versity]

The Mail Man is what you want for this sort of build, but that goes a bit OTT for most games. For a Fire based Sorc I would take Searing Spell, Rapid Metamagic and a good selection of fire spells (both offensive and defensive) along with the usual cadre of utility (fly, haste, shield).

Since you already have Searing Spell to ignore immunities, PrCing into Elemental Savant for 4 levels isn't the problem it usually is.

[ojayaba]

any other thoughts that don't involve mailman as that paticular build doesn't work with this campaign.

[Particle_Man]

You could look into Hellfire (the hellfire warlock uses it but I bet you could find other ways to get it in spell form). It is a fire so hot that even beings resistant or immune to fire take full damage from it. Kinda useful as lots of things are immune to or resistant to fire as you get on in levels. :)

[ericgrau]

I happen to be playing a fire mage right now. Burning hands is good temporarily as it's one of your limited options for area damage so far, but you'll want to swap it out soon so magic missile might be better long term. Next I'd get web and then flaming sphere. Web is a superb control spell and as you're already partly figuring it out you shouldn't blow too many spells known on the same thing, even on fire spells for a fire mage. Web also increases fire damage from your flaming spheres and burning hands. At level 6 you'll have fireball of course and at 7 you'll have 2 rays on your scorching ray making flaming sphere completely obsolete. So 6 or 8 is a good level to swap out flaming sphere for something else. At these levels any feat that increases your caster level is good, and soon empower will be too.

From there evard's tentacles is a good way to set up foes for your fireballs since it's immune to damage and it will keep pesky allies away from at least a couple of the foes so you can fireball away while they focus on other enemies. Cascading fire (SpC) is a good 4th level fire spell and at higher levels it's best to rely mostly on metamagic and use your higher level spells known for other things or backup damage. In case you're still not noticing the theme here all the battlefield control spells will be helpful in general, as they are on any caster. As are the standard bread and butter spells like haste. I'd have 3-4 damage spells at any one time (swapping out old ones), empower spell once you get 4th-5th level spells, as many battlefield control spells as you can pack in, and plenty of hour/level buffs too like greater magic weapon and false life. Especially for your lower level spells so you can dedicate your higher level ones to bigger booms. You can't possibly use all your 20+ spells per day in combat. Finally I might put a minimal number of spells into niche things you like or need, as long as you remember to put the bulk of your spells known into more general purpose spells like the ones mentioned. It sucks having a bunch of spells that will be useful some day but aren't right now.

Oh ya, once you get empower you might as well consider the awesome non-damaging variable numeric spells to empower, which are mostly within necromancy. My own particular fire caster is mainly evocation/necromancy/conjuration but I've seen similar casters focus on evocation/conjuration/transmutation too like the spells I suggested above.

It seems like you're getting good suggestions on feats so I won't bring up anything besides empower.

[ojayaba]

You could look into Hellfire
where could i find hellfire?

as to anything that buffs my caster level, I'm currently casting fire spells at +4 levels and non fire spells at +0.
just got to level 4 so looking for a good 2nd level spell too use as utility spell. still new to mages in general so not really sure what the "bread and butter" would be...

[Particle_Man]

where could i find hellfire?

Fiendish Codex II: tyrants of the nine hells.

[Randomguy]

where could i find hellfire?

as to anything that buffs my caster level, I'm currently casting fire spells at +4 levels and non fire spells at +0.
just got to level 4 so looking for a good 2nd level spell too use as utility spell. still new to mages in general so not really sure what the "bread and butter" would be...

In general, the bread and butter of a caster is battlefield control, buffing and debuffing, since it's easier to win by turning the fight into a cakewalk (by making the enemies weak, warping reality to your favour, or making your allies strong).

As a fire based caster, Pyrotechnics would be a great spell for you to choose. Some people cast it on a flaming sphere, so they can control the movement of the smoke cloud.

Scorching ray is a standard damage dealing fire spell. Combust (spell compedium) is slightly better, especially with metamagic, and it scales better with level, but you need to get up close to use it, making it a bit riskier. (You could, however, use it with spectral hand or your familiar)

Greater fireburst, at higher levels, is also very powerful.

Good utility spells in general: Spider climb and levitate for climbing (retrain these later), shatter, which can pick locks, open doors, break weapons, destroy spell component pouches and divine foci and collapse rickety rope bridges, Blur and mirror image for defence, glitterdust to blind and outline invisible creatures, so on.

Pick up firey burst as soon as you can (searing spell is more important, I think). It's another +1 to CL for fire spells, and it lets you blast a bit without spending spell slots.

[Flickerdart]

+2? You need more! You already have Fiery Burst (which you can't actually qualify for yet) and Elemental Spellcasting? There are more out there!

Bloodline of Fire would give you +2 CL, but only Humans or Planetouched can take it. Cali****e Elementalist gives +1 CL to a limited range of fire spells, so it's not really ideal. An evoker wizard could also get +1 CL to an element, but you aren't an evoker...

As a Sorcerer, you can get Dragon Heritage and a bunch of other stuff in exchange for your Familiar. Taking the Draconic Power feat will then give you another +1 CL. Spell Thematics will give you +1 CL for one spell per spell level. The Spellgifted trait will give you +1 CL to spells from one school (you'll probably want Evocation). A dirt cheap magic item, the 500gp Arcanist's Gloves from the MIC will give you +2 CL to a 1st level spell 2/day. Primitive Caster will give you extra CLs for adding components, and Spell Power will give you a flat +1 3/day.

So if you go something like:

Human Sorcerer 4
Trait: Spellgifted (Evocation)
H: Bloodline of Fire
Bonus: Dragon Heritage (Red)
1: Elemental Spellcasting
3: Draconic Power

You now have CL9 for Fire spells, which means 8d6 (avg 21) Scorching Rays, 9d4 (avg 17.5) Burning Hands, and so forth. A 4th level, say, Barbarian might be swinging for 2d6+10 (avg 17), but yours are touch attacks or reflex saves (though they are also from limited slots). With flaws, you could hit higher CLs.

Generally though, Clerics and Wizards are far better at bumping CL.

[candycorn]

Bloodline of Fire: +2 CL for Fire spells

Spellgifted: +1 CL for 1 school of magic, -1 CL for any spell not of that school.

Evocation Wizard (Elemental Focus): +1 CL with chosen element

All of this is possible at level 1, with 1 feat chosen.

If you're a human, and you have 2 flaws, you can take sudden silent, sudden empower, and sudden maximize, and you get Kelgore's Fireball at CL 5 (at Wizard 1).

Maximized would be 30 damage, max/empowered for around 38.25 damage. You get several little hits, and one-two big ones a day.

For this, I recommend Lesser Tiefling, for the 20 intelligence and 2 bonus spells per day. Focused Specialist gets you effectively 2 more, for 5 level 1 spells per day, at level 1.

By level 3, you'd have six level 1 spells, and four level 2 spells. At level 3, you pick up Fiery Burst, and you're casting at CL 8 for evocation fire spells. By level 4, you're CL 9.

If all you want is more fire, this is probably one of the better ways to do it.

[ojayaba]

Okay, updates have happened to my character.
I'm now currently a 4th level sorcerer
feats:
pyro(from 3rd ed)
bloodline of fire
elemental casting
fiery burst
weapon focus: ranged spell
eschew materials

for feats to buff my casting, i have permanent immunity to fire at the cost of vulnerability to cold, wings to fly with and the race of elf.

my plan is to at 6th level take combat casting so i qualify for the war mage prestige class at 7th from dragonlance campaign as thats where we are playing.

war mage will give me 2 metamagic feats, +3 to all my damaging spells per die and cha to AC for 3 allies. I can be my own ally and i happen to be a sorc so cha is jacked :D

[ericgrau]

Do you need weapon focus (ray) as a pre-req for anything? You might consider point blank shot instead for +1 to hit, +1 damage, and it opens up precise shot if you can spare the feat later. It's a little risky to your health with a 30' range limit, but at the moment your rays have a 35' range.

[ojayaba]

needed weapon focus of any type fore War mage. so i took weapon focus ranged spell.

[Flickerdart]

needed weapon focus of any type fore War mage. so i took weapon focus ranged spell.
That's actually not a thing - it would be like Weapon Focus (Ranged Weapons). You have to pick something specific like Weapon Focus (rays).

[ojayaba]

WEAPONLIKE SPELLS
For the purpose of taking combat-enhanc-ing feats, weaponlike spells fall into
two categories —ranged spells and
touch spells.

taken from page 72 of the complete arcane...

[Flickerdart]

Irrelevant, because the primary source (the feat text) states: Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.

You cannot choose any spell type other than Ray for Weapon Focus.

[ojayaba]

Weapon Focus : Choose one category of weaponlike
spells (ranged spells or touch spells) and gain a +1 bonus on
all attack rolls made with such spells. You can gain this feat
a second time, choosing a different category of weaponlike
spells.

is page 73 of complete arcane stating that's how weapon focus works with spells. does it not state for RAW that the newest printing has priority regarding how any given rule works?
By that logic, they used CArc to edit Weapon Focus so that it IS relavent and DOES work as ranged spell and touch spell. Plus, they even went a step further and made weapon focus: ranged spell and Weapon Focus: Touch spell pre reqs for other feats.


RANGED SPELL SPECIALIZATION
You deal more damage with ranged touch attack spells.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (ranged spell), caster level 4th.


TOUCH SPELL SPECIALIZATION
You deal extra damage with touch spells.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (touch spell), caster level 4th

since BOTH are listed as pre reqs for other feats AND it's a newer wording on a rule it is not only valid but RAW.

[ojayaba]

wouldn't that be right? that since it was used in a later book that it is RAW or am I getting this wrong?

[killem2]

How about going down the route of Spellwarp Sniper? You can really use some disgusting fire spells in that ray form.

Perfect setup for a strongheart halfling.

[ojayaba]

1) what book is spellwarp sniper in

2) im playing an elf, not a halfling.

3) currently 1 feat away from meeting the pre reqs for War Mage and that does some not nice things to my enemies. 5 lvls, +3 per die of any spell i cast, full casting, 2 meta magics, add my Cha bonus to myself and 2 allies within 30 ft... i like it.

[Toliudar]

For the dragonlance campaign and what you're doing, you've made some solid choices. I support your reading of the Complete Arcane Weapon Focus feat.

[killem2]

Spellwarp sniper is in complete scoundrel.

It's only 5 levels of prestige, and an elf would still work well, due to dexterity!

Just the idea of molding a fireball into a single target spell is awesome to me lol.

[ojayaba]

found spellwarp, think i might pass for now, war mage is more temptring at the moment.

trying to pick 2nd level spells... alter self looks pretty damn nasty. more so when i mention i have the fire type so should be able to turn into a medium fire elemental. but im wondering, would i gain the burn ability of a fire elemental or is that one of those special attacks i dont gain? i would still gain the slam attack im sure but really wanna know if i would gain the burn ability as its not supernatural...