What happens if you "Awaken" a Warbeast animal?

[Talya]

So the animal is already trained up with the "Warbeast" template.

Friendly druid casts "Awaken" on it.

Does it keep the benefits of the Warbeast template, because it already has them? or does it lose them because it's now a magical beast?

[hymer]

While we're at it, what happens to a Warlock that becomes N, LN, NG or LN?

I don't know of any rule that states what happens to a template if you cease to fulfill its requirements. Unless it somehow makes no sense whatever (a half-fiend is wished into being a full human, for example), then you keep the template, I'd have to say from that.

[Jasdoif]

So the animal is already trained up with the "Warbeast" template.

Friendly druid casts "Awaken" on it.

Does it keep the benefits of the Warbeast template, because it already has them? or does it lose them because it's now a magical beast?The restrictions for templates state what kind of creature they can be applied to. Once the template is applied, the creature is changed; I can see no reason why the creature would need to continue meeting whatever requirements after that point. Particularly given the existence of templates which change the creature to no longer meet the template's restrictions (The skeleton template, for example, can't be applied to undead; but the template makes a creature undead once applied).

[gomipile]

http://www.cgsociety.org/stories/2007_12/goldenCompass/images/gc_still_frames_4k.000115.jpg

[Kuulvheysoon]

http://www.cgsociety.org/stories/2007_12/goldenCompass/images/gc_still_frames_4k.000115.jpg

Epic.

But I'd argue that he's a Bear of Legend (MM2). It just feels... right, you know?


While we're at it, what happens to a Warlock that becomes N, LN, NG or LN?


Same thing that happens to someone who loses a pre-requisite to a PrC - you lose all benefits of your class abilities (save armor/weapon proficiencies, I believe) until such a time where you do meet the pre-requisites.

[Rubik]

Same thing that happens to someone who loses a pre-requisite to a PrC - you lose all benefits of your class abilities (save armor/weapon proficiencies, I believe) until such a time where you do meet the pre-requisites.That's only for the PrCs in...what, Complete Champion, I think? No other PrCs do that unless they specifically say so. However, you can't continue taking levels in a PrC if you don't meet the prereqs.

[OracleofSilence]

http://www.cgsociety.org/stories/2007_12/goldenCompass/images/gc_still_frames_4k.000115.jpg


wait...

You get turned from a character in an awesome book into a crappy movie?

[onemorelurker]

That's only for the PrCs in...what, Complete Champion, I think? No other PrCs do that unless they specifically say so. However, you can't continue taking levels in a PrC if you don't meet the prereqs.

Plus, in some cases (Schrodinger's Dragon Disciple!), a character losing all xir PrC features if xe no longer meets a PrC's requirements just becomes nonsensical.

[Kuulvheysoon]

That's only for the PrCs in...what, Complete Champion, I think? No other PrCs do that unless they specifically say so. However, you can't continue taking levels in a PrC if you don't meet the prereqs.

...and Paladins (although they're a base class).

[Rubik]

...and Paladins (although they're a base class).Only the prestige paladin. It's not a PrC (although it should be).

[Kuulvheysoon]

Only the prestige paladin. It's not a PrC (although it should be).



Ex-Paladins

A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.

Emphasis mine.

[Rubik]

Emphasis mine.I reiterate:


It's not a PrC (although it should be).

[Taelas]

That's only for the PrCs in...what, Complete Champion, I think? No other PrCs do that unless they specifically say so. However, you can't continue taking levels in a PrC if you don't meet the prereqs.

Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior, actually.

Also, nothing in the descriptions in either book restrict it to those books. It is a point of contention among many whether they apply to all or only to the ones in those books. Yes, yes, there are situations in which you disqualify yourself by taking a prestige class (like the Dragon Disciple example), but those can be easily rectified by not being an idiot.

Quite frankly, there is no logic in having that rule apply only to those books, so I tend to side with applying it to all.



I reiterate:
He did mention (and you even quoted that part) that it was a base class. What's the point in bringing it up again, over and over?

EDIT: As to the original topic, you've got the template until something causes you to lose it (and additional templates don't).

[Rubik]

He did mention (and you even quoted that part) that it was a base class. What's the point in bringing it up again, over and over?Right, and we were talking about PrCs. The paladin is not a PrC, so it's not really a viable point of contention concerning the discussion.

[Taelas]

Right, and we were talking about PrCs. The paladin is not a PrC, so it's not really a viable point of contention concerning the discussion.

Why is this such a big deal? He brought it up because it's one of the few classes that does precisely what you were talking about (aside from it not being a PrC).

There's really no point in bringing up that it isn't a PrC when he did that in the same breath he mentioned it in the first place. You've gone beyond kicking a dead horse to trying to blow it up with TNT.

[Metahuman1]

Paladin not a PrC? I would suggest reading Unearthed Arcana my good sir (Or Ma'am if applicable.).

[Taelas]

The Prestige Paladin was already mentioned.

Has it somehow become fashionable to just not read what is posted, anymore?

[Kuulvheysoon]

It's really a matter of DM choice, here, methinks.

RAI, it's doubtless that they should lose all abilities/spells if they deviate from the specified alignment (see paladin, monk, etc...).

RAW, it doesn't specify that the warlock MUST stay within it's alignment bounds to maintain it's class features, merely that it must start as one of those.

I'd compare it to a Great Wyrm dragonwrought kobold trying to take epic feats. There's precedence that they can (see: Draconomicon, at the very least), but clearly, the age categories for kobolds were a flavour aspect and not intended for that ort of use.

Friends, everyone?:smallbiggrin:

[Jasdoif]

RAI, it's doubtless that they should lose all abilities/spells if they deviate from the specified alignment (see paladin, monk, etc...).Monks lose no abilities from changing alignment.
A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.Emphasis mine.

Bards who become lawful lose no abilities, either. And barbarians who become lawful can't rage, but otherwise retain their abilities.

For base classes at least, I believe it's best to assume that no class abilities are lost unless the class indicates otherwise.

[Benly]

I know that sample characters are the bottom of the barrel for rules-supporting arguments, but the sample Enlightened Soul is lawful good and still has his warlock powers. The requirements for Enlightened Soul also have both "any good" and eldritch blast, which seems to imply that the PrC's writer at least believed that warlocks of any good alignment could exist and still retain their powers.

[The Glyphstone]

I know that sample characters are the bottom of the barrel for rules-supporting arguments, but the sample Enlightened Soul is lawful good and still has his warlock powers. The requirements for Enlightened Soul also have both "any good" and eldritch blast, which seems to imply that the PrC's writer at least believed that warlocks of any good alignment could exist and still retain their powers.

The Barrel Union would like to register a formal protest for your insult in associating their bottoms with the splatbook sample characters. Barrel bottoms are better than that.:smallbiggrin:

Though, a good bit of circumstantial evidence all the same.

[Kuulvheysoon]

The Barrel Union would like to register a formal protest for your insult in associating their bottoms with the splatbook sample characters. Barrel bottoms are better than that.:smallbiggrin:

Though, a good bit of circumstantial evidence all the same.

Circumstantial evidence? You're talking about the same editors that have released sample characters that feature either illegal feats (don't qualify) or have sample PrC characters that don't qualify for the PrC that they're modeling.

[Taelas]

Hence 'circumstantial'. :smallwink:

[Benly]

Circumstantial evidence? You're talking about the same editors that have released sample characters that feature either illegal feats (don't qualify) or have sample PrC characters that don't qualify for the PrC that they're modeling.

As Szar_Lakol says, that's why it's circumstantial rather than direct evidence. There's no clear statement on general effects of losing prerequisites for base classes, so all there really is to go on is things that seem to imply what the intent is. A prestige class that says "any good" and "Eldritch Blast" in its prerequisites implies that whoever wrote it at least thought that it was possible for a character of any good alignment to have Eldritch Blast.

The argument is old enough and the books thoroughly enough examined that at this point nobody is going to come up with a clobber, a section of text that makes it unequivocally clear what the Official Rules are in this case. All there is to find is circumstantial evidence like that.