D&D Next: The Discussion

[Pyromancer999]

So, as I'm sure everyone is aware, WoTC has announced that they're working on D&D 5e, officially called D&D Next.

The premise of the system? Make everyone happy. You want to play a 1e character in your friend's 3.5e game? Go ahead. Have 4 friends who want to play D&D together, but each prefer a different edition? Use D&D Next.

Other features of the system will supposedly include:

The fighter not sucking
Uber-levels of customization
Character Creation that takes 15-30 minutes for everyone
Playtesting and getting feedback from actual players(which was not really done with 4e)
Other stuff


So....thoughts on this? What do you like/dislike about what's already been said about the system, and what do you think it will/should have?

D&D NEXT DISCUSSION GO!

[Siegel]

A System that want's to please everybody will fail.

[Particle_Man]

I'll wait and see. It might be good, it might be bad, my friends might like it, my friends might not.

I think it would be a nice gesture if they go OGL with at least the core rules and a few of the "Basic" customizable elements.

[blackspeeker]

I agree with particle man's point, mainly so I can know whether or not I want to invest what time and money into it. If I don't like what I see it wont really matter, there are other games.

[Morph Bark]

D&D Next sounds like an ominous name choice, don't you think?

Personally, I'd be surprised if they'd come even a little bit close to 3.5 levels of customization. "Uber levels of customization" and "character creation takes 15-30 minutes for everyone" do not mix. Playtesting and getting feedback is prettymuch the only big point here that stands out on a certain positive note.

[Yora]

We already have this thread:

Part 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218549)
Part 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231033)

For some inexplicable reason, one of the moderators moved it to the 3rd Edition forum. No clue why that was done.

[kaomera]

A System that want's to please everybody will fail.
Probably. But I think that what they want to do is create a tool-kit system that will allow as many players as possible to get the stuff they want.

I still think there's some flaws with that basic concept - it's really nothing they haven't tried before (although the approach may be different), and the problem that has come up is that the specific things (steps) that players want often don't actually end up at the destination those players were hoping for. 4e actually does a lot of the stuff that players have been asking for since the beginning of D&D, but in order to get there it has to mess with a lot of aspects of earlier editions that some players were really attached to.

So I'm going to wait and see at this point - I can't say I'm really feeling that positive about a fair amount of what they've said about ''the next iteration of D&D'' so far, but I think the basic concept is going in the right direction. I just don't really have my hopes up yet that they have the ability to actually get from point A to point B in one piece. Mind you, past evidence supports the theory that I am liable to get overly excited about the game at launch, regardless of how good it is or is not...

[DeltaEmil]

It will be customizable. At least that's one of the buzzwords that is floating around nebulously around D&D 5th edition.

But we'll see what it can do once we actually see some of the rules.

[Eldan]

At least some of those points seem to disagree with each other.

How can you make a system as detailed and rules-heavy as D&D, make it customizable on a never-seen-before scale, and then have character creation take 15 minutes?

Colour me skeptical. Very skeptical.

[Elfinor]

We already have this thread:

Part 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218549)
Part 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231033)

For some inexplicable reason, one of the moderators moved it to the 3rd Edition forum. No clue why that was done. I think it was done because the thread falls under 'any fantasy game using the d20 system or a variant thereof (commercially published or not)'.

[Lhurgyof]

At least some of those points seem to disagree with each other.

How can you make a system as detailed and rules-heavy as D&D, make it customizable on a never-seen-before scale, and then have character creation take 15 minutes?

Colour me skeptical. Very skeptical.

iirc new players can make a simple character in as quick as 15 minutes, but you could take as long as you want making the character as detailed as you want.



Edit: phone likes autocorrecting the weirdest words.

[Particle_Man]

I just hope that "customization" is not short-hand for "bump the simple characters up a few Tiers so that if you don't do this and your friends do you will suck in comparison".

[erikun]

I've been hearing a lot about the system, but every time they sit down and actually talk about what they are planning, it doesn't sound at all like what they are promising. For example, "high levels of customization" ended up being, "We're planning on making a bunch of various rules in splatbooks, and the DM can choose which ones to use." That... is not at all what I think of when I hear the phrase.

Of course, I've mostly wandered away from D&D by now, so what they produce with D&D5 will mostly be a curiosity that a system I'd likely play.

[Gamgee]

Star Wars Saga is a good idea of what they're thinking, but I doubt they have the skill to put it off. Due to the simplicity of the rules you could make a character in no time at all. At the exact same time they had such a variety of options to choose from you could really take the time to craft a unique character.

This is based on how the game is balanced. All classes gain feats, skills, and talents to compliment play so there's overlap between classes. Due to the limitation of how much of these feats/talents you can take it always ends up being a rather balanced game.

1. Roll Stats
2. Pick character Race/Class
3. Assign Them
4. Pick trained skills (no fuddling with individual points)
5. Pick Talent
6. Pick Starting Feat

All classes did the exact same thing upon starting. The organized nature of the book allows for quick referencing. Each of the base classes was so unique it would be immediately obvious what archetype your playing. Feat/Talent selection was quick.

The game doesn't bog itself down in tiny details. The key to this was the broad sweeping class design.

Jedi (could play good or bad), the point is the Jedi is the one using a lightsaber of some kind.
Scoundrel is the shady backroom dealer who likes his ships, trading runs, and skills. Sneak attacks obviously.
Nobles are the leaders of the group, or people who get by on social skill. They're the leaders offering bonuses to the group at large. They do have some skills, but that isn't their primary focus. They're adventure starters rather than the combat people.
Scouts explore all of society form the fringes to the dark depths of an underworld. The people living on the edge, and often able to hide or blend in really well. At the same time ready to fight.
Soldier anything from a pilot to infantry to brawler could be done with this archetype. Combat is the name of the game.

All classes are more than capable of fighting in combat in a pinch, though some are naturally better at it. This means you don't have to decide if you want to be a skill person or a shooting person since all the classes have their roles to play in both departments.

It was incredibly simple game to play, but once you understood it the sheer variety of options was amazing. And it was generally balanced.

I have a feeling they're going to completely screw up and try and make a game that is way more complicated than it has to be. They'll overshoot the middle ground and make it too complex. An easy mistake after 4th edition and its real super simplicity. Borderline boring simplicity.

Saga edition is an rpg from a more elegant time.

[Calanon]

A System that want's to please everybody will fail.

So true... anywho! Can't wait to play with my 1st edition 2nd edition 3rd edition and 4th edition friends!

[TheOOB]

If the marketing people who came up with the name "D&D Next" are making the game, I have little hope for it.

Honestly, I thought 3rd edition was a move in the right direction, the rules just needed some more internal consistency, and they needed to make a greater effort to streamline and balance things. With 4e, WotC showed that they didn't understand a very fundamental fact, that since the Roleplaying boom caused by their own d20 system, D&D is not the only game out there. They tried to make a game for everyone, while ignoring what made 3e really good. With so many RPG's out there, you need to make your game have a focus, it needs to either do something no one else is doing, or else do something better than anyone else.

D&D has always been very much like a wargame, it's always focused around strong tactical combat and fantasy character development, and always been a little weak at the more "fluffy" style of role playing. For the next edition, they need to focus on what D&D does well. They also need to bring back the strong unique classes and customization of 3e, and not be afriad of making the game complex. Complexity is good as long as it is done well, and most importantly, consistently.

[bloodtide]

I can almost say for a fact that whatever D&D Next is, it simply won't be good enough for me to buy it. As the 'Core Rules' will likely cost $100, I just can't afford that kind of money. Unless it was the best game every.

The big huge turn off for me will be if the game 'talks down' to us, the way 4E does and makes everything 'so simple and easy'. I just hate that approach. Just as big a turn off, also done in 4E, is the 'Wow, Wham, Bang' approach where the game is all about combat and cool combative special effects.

As I'm sure that 5E will have the talk down and wow on every page, I don't feel the game is for me.

[Knaight]

D&D Next sounds like an ominous name choice, don't you think?

The only problem with D&D Next is that it isn't D&D Last.

[Pyromancer999]

It will be customizable. At least that's one of the buzzwords that is floating around nebulously around D&D 5th edition.

But we'll see what it can do once we actually see some of the rules.

The only real issue I have with the customization bit is that it's restricted to classes. Mainly because a)In my rulebook, if you're restricted to customizing within a class, that's not real customization, and b) it essentially makes it the D&D version of Pathfinder.


The only problem with D&D Next is that it isn't D&D Last.

Why would that be a problem?

[eggs]

I think I've basically had my fill of the D&D line, but the two things that I'd have liked to see WotC do with its RPG product are things that 5e's design team is flaunting (modular depth and a default to light character creation). Given the design principles of WotC's last 2 versions, I'm having a hard time getting excited enough about the game to track design notes/early hype the way I did with 4e, but I'll probably give it a look when it comes out.