What's a Sand Shaper to do?

[Gorfnod]

For my upcoming 3.5 game, I am looking at playing a Desert Kobold (no dragonwrought/loredrake cheese) sorcerer that will be going in to the Sand Shaper prc from Sandstorm. We are starting at level 10 and our games routinely get to near-epic levels before we end campaigns/rotate DMs. I will be entering the class with either 5 or 6 levels of sorc, waiting on a DM call, and I intend to take all 10 levels of the class so I will be either 15 or 16 when I finish. This leaves me the question of what additional class/prc to take after this. I would like to stick with the desert/sand theme if at all possible but anything that would fit with the theme of "the waste" would fit.

As a side question, has anyone seen or come up with any good "fixes" for the classes "sand shape" ability? It just seems that for the amount of time it takes to create things, especially the animate ones, it really isn't a helpful ability. (I am aware that there are loopholes that allow you to create objects in "negative amounts" of time but I don't think thats gonna slide)

[Talionis]

I think there is a sand that stays permanently.

[SirFredgar]

I think there is a sand that stays permanently.

That would be Shapesand from Sandstorm. I've never seen a ruling it works for the sand critters you can make, though. But now that you mention it... I don't see any obvious reason it wouldn't.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all:
Each attempt to create an item requires a number of minutes equal to the DC.... Created items persist for 10 minutes per sand shaper level, and can only be solid objects...

Second:
You can create and maintain a number of objects equal to your sand shaper level.

Finally:
Item Size .......... DC
1 cu. ft. or less .. –5

Someone casts a spell at you. You create one or more blocks each 1 cubic foot or less between you and the caster, forming a wall that blocks line of effect. It takes -5 minutes to craft it, so it springs into existence five minutes ago. There's no takesies-backsies, so that caster still attempted to hit you with that spell, but he no longer has line of effect to you and so it automatically fails. You can do this every round, in addition to your other actions, since it takes a negative amount of time from your turn to create those barricades.

[Madara]

Let's see...follow up class. Hmmm. Would you be up to LA? take the Dry Lich Template.

As for a PrC...

Not much that fits the theme. Maybe Elemental Adept, but that'll only limit you..

[Tr011]

If you start shaping, go Metaphysical Spellshaper (BoEF).

[Benly]

As a side question, has anyone seen or come up with any good "fixes" for the classes "sand shape" ability? It just seems that for the amount of time it takes to create things, especially the animate ones, it really isn't a helpful ability. (I am aware that there are loopholes that allow you to create objects in "negative amounts" of time but I don't think thats gonna slide)

Personally, I would houserule the duration up to one hour per level for creatures and two hours per level for objects, along with the ability to "renew" an object at the end of its duration by spending a minute working on it, the option to discorporate a created object as a standard action, and a note that the things you make are obvious sand constructs and as such can't be sold (at least, not without the same kind of Bluff check you'd need to pawn off any other worthless junk.)

Yes, it's a long duration, but nothing you can make with this ability is so powerful as to merit a short duration - by the time you can make the creatures, none of them are anything more than a slight speed bump in combat, so you might as well have enough duration to actually ride your horse somewhere, send your eagle scouting, or set your dogs as sentries.

[Gorfnod]

Shapesand is going to be a part of my gameplan but my DM has made it clear that there will not be an abundant supply.


Like I said in my first post, I was aware that there is a way to sand shape in "negative time" but I am almost sure that my DM would not allow it as an immediate action. Wonderful idea though.


I always thought that the Dry Lich template was for Walker in the Waste only. The fluff seems to suggest it but they do have an entry for adding it to creatures so I'll run that by my DM. +5 LA seems a little high though but it really does fit what I am going for.

Any ideas on how being undead would interact with the Sand Shaper capstone of ressurecting when immersed in sand?


Benly, I like your duration changes and with no intention on my part of ever trying to sell them that I could probably get that change implemented.

[Igneel]

I have to agree with Benly on duration, its stupid having to work 20 minutes on a single Tiny Scorpion only to have it go *poof* pile of sand in 2 minutes at 10th level Sand Shaper.

Dry lich is both a template and a PrC capstone, where if you take the PrC you get all its abilities as class abilities etc, etc like the Dread Necromancer with the normal Lich. Only difference is that arguably you don't get the LA with the PrC but again people argue about that. Still gotta pay for the 5 phylacteries though.

Hmm... On one hand, if you die without being buried under wasteland dirt you comeback as a Dry Lich in 1d6 weeks. On the other hand if you die and get buried under sand or such you come back to life (losing Dry Lich) in 10 minutes, but can be activated up to 100 years. Maybe you could ask if you could substitute the Resurrection with the undead version like Revive Undead (Libris Mortis?) but put more to scale with Resurrection (ie: Full Hp, all limbs intact, no level loss, etc)?

I believe there are several PrC's people suggest for Sand Shapers to take that continue progressing Sorcerer casting that have beneficial abilities, but none come to mind atm.

[Chronos]

Let's see...follow up class. Hmmm. Would you be up to LA? take the Dry Lich Template.Oddly enough, there's no way to take that template with the LA of it, since the only way to get it is by being a Walker in the Waste, which gets it for free. The template can be applied to any creature that can make the canopic jars, and the canopic jars have a prerequisite of being a Walker in the Waste.

[Madara]

Indeed, but I think that the DM will be fine with it, since you're going for thematic purposes rather than optimization.

[The-Mage-King]

What does it do?


Double your spells known*, for one, and gives you some decent immortality tricks. Pretty good for losing two caster levels.




*For the most part, that is. It gives 7 1st and 2nd level spells, 10 3rd level spells, 4 4th level spells, 6 5th level spells, 4 6th level spells, and then 3, 2, 1 one 7th through 9th level spells, respectively. On a sorc, that's GREAT. Decent spells, too.


EDIT @Chronos: Er... Artificer and Warlock can do it, too. Because UMD to meet prereqs. :smalltongue:

[Calanon]

Oddly enough, there's no way to take that template with the LA of it, since the only way to get it is by being a Walker in the Waste, which gets it for free. The template can be applied to any creature that can make the canopic jars, and the canopic jars have a prerequisite of being a Walker in the Waste.

Take the last level of Walker in the Waste at level 20... See how annoyed your DM gets... post results :smallwink:

[Chronos]

Why would your DM get annoyed by that? If you're playing to level 20, the DM darned well ought to be expecting high power.

And The-Mage-King, good point about artificers and warlocks, but it's still a peculiar glitch in the rules.

[Morph Bark]

Take the last level of Walker in the Waste at level 20... See how annoyed your DM gets... post results :smallwink:

No DM allowing Walker in the Waste would/should get annoyed at that, since Walkers in the Waste get the template for free, as mentioned in the post you quoted.

[DarkestKnight]

Here's an idea to have fun with Shape sand

Step 1: find a way to get around the pesky problem of breathing/sleeping.
Step 2: take 5 ranks in perform (vocals)
Step 3: form a large ball of sand around you (DC should be low)
Step 4: start singing the theme of katamari damancy
Step 5: Roll out!

[Gorfnod]

Here's an idea to have fun with Shape sand

Step 1: find a way to get around the pesky problem of breathing/sleeping.
Step 2: take 5 ranks in perform (vocals)
Step 3: form a large ball of sand around you (DC should be low)
Step 4: start singing the theme of katamari damancy
Step 5: Roll out!

I would be too afraid that the creepy king would start to follow me around.