Fallen [3.5 PrC]<--- PEACH!!

[Greyfeld85]

Fallen

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k262/Greyfeld/9bd0ae30.jpg

The Fallen have a long history as the shock troop of many a zealots' war. Many Fallen were once paladins or some other soldier of all that is good and right, but those once-righteous hearts have been twisted, tainted and defiled by one of the many gods of darkness. Now they spread evil through sword and spell, invoking chaos in the name of their god.

Prerequisites

Base Attack Bonus: +6
Alignment: Any nongood.
Deity: Must worship an evil deity.
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks.
Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd level divine spells, or have been stripped of such level of spellcasting by your deity.

Fallen Class Features
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spellcasting

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Soul Weapon, Defiled Soul, Defiled Magic|---

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Desecration Aura|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Unholy Weapon|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Corrupt Channeling|---

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Fear Aura|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+6|
+5|
+2|
+5|---|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

7th|
+7|
+5|
+2|
+5|Creeping Aura|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th|
+8|
+6|
+2|
+6|Corrupted Sight|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th|
+9|
+6|
+3|
+6|Nightmare Blade|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th|
+10|
+7|
+3|
+7|Blood Torrent|---[/table]
Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Religion), Knowlege (The Planes), Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Swim
Skill Points per level: 2 + Intelligence modifier
Hit Die: D10

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Fallen gain proficiency in martial weapons if they did not have it previously. Fallen gain no armor proficiencies.

Spellcasting: At every Fallen level except 1st, 4th, and 10th, you gain new spells per day and an increase in the caster level as if you had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class you belonged to before you added the prestige class. You do not, however, gain any other class benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one divine spellcasting class before joining the Fallen, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day (and spells known, if applicable).

If the Fallen has lost or halted his spellcasting progression from the divine spellcasting class he used to qualify for this prestige class (such as a Paladin who changes alignments or multiclasses), he regains any previously lost spellcasting levels that were granted to him by that class, and any Fallen levels gained may continue progressing the spellcasting of that class, regardless of his previous class restrictions. A Fallen may not use any Good-aligned spells on any spell list.

The Fallen may use his Soul Weapon as his divine focus, in place of a holy symbol, in spells that require such a focus.

Soul Weapon (Ex): A new Fallen is required by the church to carry a weapon through which he can connect to their god. Choose a weapon in your posession. The Fallen focuses on tying his soul to this weapon in a ritual that takes 24 uninterrupted hours.

A Fallen's weapon (sometimes referred to as a Soul Weapon) gains the ability to drain targets of their life force. When the Fallen deals damage with his Soul Weapon, the weapon drains Blood Points equal to 1/4 of the target's HD (Minimum 1). A Soul Weapon may store a maximum of (Fallen level x 2) + (Wisdom modifier x 3) Blood Points. Blood points may not be drained from soulless targets (Golems, oozes, animated objects, mindless undead/plants, etc).

The Fallen may scry on or locate his Soul Weapon at will as a standard action, as if using the Scry spell or Locate Object spell, however he does not require any verbal, somatic, material, or focus components in order to do so.
A Fallen may only be tied to one weapon at any given time, and must perform a new ritual to unbind his soul from the original weapon and tie it to the new weapon. He may not tie himself to a weapon with an Ego score. If the Fallen's weapon is broken, his soul is immediately and forcefully untied from the weapon, causing him to suffer ability damage equal to 1/2 his base Con score (rounded down).

Defiled Soul (Ex): To better connect to his deity's divine power, the Fallen's soul is defiled in a long and painful ritual. He is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy. A Fallen's soul remains defiled for the rest of his life, or until he does something to shift his alignment toward Good. Should this happen, the Fallen's soul is no longer defiled, and he loses all his Fallen class features until he atones (see Atonement spell description). Defiled Soul can be used in place of the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability.

Defiled Magic (Su): Unlike other spellcasters, a Fallen is not limited to the meager energy his body can channel every day. In addition to the normal Spells per Day he gains, he is also able to use the life force stolen and stored in his Soul Weapon to power his spells. Instead of using his daily allotment of spells, the Fallen may choose to expend Blood Points equal to 4 x the level of the spell.

At first level, Defiled Magic may be used to power 1st-3rd level spells. At level six, a Fallen may use his blood points to fuel spells of up to 6th level. At level ten, this ability may be used to cast spells of up to 9th level. Defiled Magic does not allow you to cast spells above your current level.

Defiled magic may only be used to cast spells that you already know if you are a spontaneous caster (such as a favored soul), or those which you had prepared for the day if you are a prepared caster (such as a cleric).
Any time the Fallen casts a spell this way, he may trace any somatic components with his Soul Weapon, rather than his hands.

Desecration Aura (Su): The Fallen's defilement continues to grow, effecting all around him. At level 2, he can activate an aura as a swift action that extends outward in a 10' radius, causing that area to be treated as being under the effects of the Desecrate spell. If the Fallen's aura clashes with a Consecrate effect, both effects are countered and dispelled as normal, then the aura returns one round later. This aura may be deactivated as a free action. At level 6, the radius increases to 15 feet, and at level 10 it extends to 20 feet.

Unholy Weapon (Ex): The fragment of defiled soul tied to the Fallen's Soul Weapon eventually corrupts it completely. At 3rd level, a Fallen's Soul Weapon is treated as an Unholy weapon. A weapon does not have to be masterwork or have a magical enhancement to be affected by this special ability.

Corrupt Channeling (Su): At 4th level, a Fallen has enough experience with his weapon to freely channel the life force trapped within it to corrupt his opponents. As a swift action, you may expend a total number of Blood Points up to your Wisdom Modifier (if any) to increase the damage your Soul Weapon deals. Each Blood Point spent in this way causes your weapon to deal an additional point of Negative Energy damage per attack until the beginning of your next turn.

Fear Aura (Su): The evil within the Fallen's soul is almost palpable. At 6th level, he gains a Fear Aura that extends as far as his Desecration Aura. While Desecration Aura is active, he may activate this aura once per turn as a free action. Any enemy caught in the aura must make a Will Save (10 + 1/2 caster Level + Wisdom modifier) or become shaken. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that Fallen's fear aura for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Creeping Aura (Su): The Fallen's defilement is so strong that it's begun twisting those around him. At 8th level, all targets who roll a save against his Fear Aura must also make a Fort Save (10 + 1/2 caster level + Wisdom modifier) or become sickened. If a creature is already sickened, they become nauseated instead. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that Fallen's Creeping Aura for another 24 hours.

Corrupted Sight (Su): At level 8, the Fallen's defilement is nearly complete. Becoming one with the desecration emanating from him, the Fallen is treated as having Blindsight equal to the radius of his Desecration Aura.

Nightmare Blade (Su): At 9th level, the Fallen's corruption bites deeply into his opponent's soul. Each attack made while Corrupt Channeling is active has a chance to strike fear into his target. On a successful attack, the target must make a DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Blood Points expended Will Save or cower for 1 turn. Afterward, the target is panicked for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your Wisdom Modifier (if any). Once a target has been effected by Nightmare Blade, the target is immune to its effects for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Blood Torrent (Su): At the peak of training and defilement, the Fallen learns to unleash the stored energy in his weapon in one massive, destructive burst. At 10th level, once per day a Fallen may expend all the Blood Points in his Soul Weapon at once, sending waves of crimson-colored negative energy radiating outward from the caster in a burst with a 30 ft. radius. Every creature within the blast must make a Will Save (10 + 1/2 caster level + Wisdom modifier) or die. Creatures who make a successful saving throw must make a second Will Save to avoid becoming stunned, and a Fort Save to avoid taking 1/2 the Fallen's Wisdom modifier in ability damage to their Constitution score.

In addition, the DCs for all three saving throws are increased by an amount equal to 1/10 of the Blood Points spent to activate this ability (minimum 1). Also, if a creature successfully makes their first Will Save, and fail their second, their stun duration is a number of rounds equal to this modifier. For example, if a Fallen used Blood Torrent while his weapon was storing 45 Blood Points, the DC for both saving throws would increase by +4, and the stun duration would last 4 rounds.

[JoshuaZ]

Interesting. This fits a very standard trope and does so in a way that is original, mechanically interesting, and looks balanced.

A few remarks: Does Defiled Soul count as Tomb-Tainted Soul for prerequisite purposes?

You can probably have it advance caster level at 4th.

You should specify which abilities are (Su) and which are (Ex). Blood Torrent should probably be a death effect.

[Greyfeld85]

Interesting. This fits a very standard trope and does so in a way that is original, mechanically interesting, and looks balanced.

Thanks :smallbiggrin: It took quite a lot of tweakage to get it where I wanted it, and to get the wording done in a way that wasn't completely confusing.


A few remarks: Does Defiled Soul count as Tomb-Tainted Soul for prerequisite purposes?

To be honest, that hadn't even crossed my mind. But I think that's a good idea, I'll have to go in and add it.


You can probably have it advance caster level at 4th.

I figured with all the class features, 3/4 progression would be acceptable, that's why I have 3 dead spellcasting levels. But if I get more comments about inserting spellcasting into level 4, I'll definitely consider it.


You should specify which abilities are (Su) and which are (Ex). Blood Torrent should probably be a death effect.

Yeah, that's something I hadn't really thought about. I'll go through them and hammer all that out.

[eftexar]

I would say to leave the three levels of no casting. This class already has full bab, d8 hit die, and some cool abilities to boot. I think any more casting would be too much.
I would like to point out how insanely high the save for nightmare blade could get. I'm not sure if its that big of an issue considering its only for 1 round, but with even 10 blood points, nobody is going to make that save. Oops didn't see the cap. Anyways great class.

[Glimbur]

Your fluff and your crunch don't line up: a Paladin who turns Evil can't qualify for this class because they can't cast spells. Besides that, it looks reasonable.

[Greyfeld85]

Your fluff and your crunch don't line up: a Paladin who turns Evil can't qualify for this class because they can't cast spells. Besides that, it looks reasonable.

That's actually a good point. I added another piece to the Spellcasting section of the class. Comments are appreciated.

[Greyfeld85]

Hrm.. I guess the class isn't interesting enough to warrant more critique?

[Dead_Jester]

Full critique

Warning, long post




Prerequisites

Base Attack Bonus: +6
Alignment: Any Evil.
Deity: Must worship an evil deity.
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks.
Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd level divine spells.

Prerequisites look ok, both clerics and paladins can enter at 9th level, although I could see the alignment being non-good instead of evil if you want to support the end justifies the means type of character dealing with dark forces for a greater good.


Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Religion), Knowlege (The Planes), Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Swim
Skill Points per level: 2 + Intelligence modifier
Hit Die: D10

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Fallen gain proficiency in martial weapons if they did not have it previously. Fallen gain no armor proficiencies.

Skill list looks ok, although 2 points per level is a little low. Making it 4 per level shouldn't break the game, and it adds a bit of OoC utility.

Proficiencies are fine, you are probably already proficient with heavy armor, and martial weapons is only a slight boost for cleric entry.


Spellcasting: At every Fallen level except 1st, 4th, and 10th, you gain new spells per day and an increase in the caster level as if you had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class you belonged to before you added the prestige class. You do not, however, gain any other class benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one divine spellcasting class before joining the Fallen, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day (and spells known, if applicable).

If the Fallen's divine spellcasting class is the Paladin (or any other class that loses its spellcasting upon multiclassing or changing alignments), his Fallen levels may continue progressing the spellcasting of that class, regardless of his previous class restrictions. A Fallen may not use any Good-aligned spells on any spell list.

The Fallen may use his Soul Weapon as his divine focus, in place of a holy symbol, in spells that require such a focus.

Spellcasting is ok, 3 levels lost is pretty much the maximum for most fullcasters. The restriction on good spells is ok, although it feels a little tacked on (no real reason for it, apart from the evil-only alignment).


Soul Weapon (Ex): A new Fallen is required by the church to carry a weapon through which he can connect to their god. Choose a weapon in your posession. The Fallen focuses on tying his soul to this weapon in a ritual that takes 24 uninterrupted hours.

A Fallen's weapon (sometimes referred to as a Soul Weapon) gains the ability to drain targets of their life force. When the Fallen deals damage with his Soul Weapon, the weapon stores Blood Points equal to 1/4 of the target's HD (Minimum 1).

Finally, the meat of the class. Draining Blood Points could be a bit too powerful with large numbers of attack (you can easily get 5 attacks even with a cleric, so easily 15 - 20 points per round, which is ), and the effect is oddly much more efficient against undeads than actual living beings (as they tend to have a lot of HDs). Also, this suffers from the bag of dead mice problem, meaning you can charge your Blood Points by killing defenseless creatures with 1 HD for free spells (the chicken infested flaw is particularly tasty with this). Maybe making it scale on enemy CR instead could help flatten out the curve, and placing a minimum on the enemy's power should eliminate most of the abuse.


A Soul Weapon may store a maximum of (Fallen level x 2) + (Wisdom modifier x 3) Blood Points.


I like that the maximum amount of points scales with both levels and wisdom, but stays at a reasonable level (unless seriously buffed, you can't store more than 1 or 2 very high level spells).


The Fallen may scry on or locate his Soul Weapon at will as a standard action, as if using the Scry spell or Locate Object spell, however he does not require any verbal, somatic, material, or focus components in order to do so.
A Fallen may only be tied to one weapon at any given time, and must perform a new ritual to unbind his soul from the original weapon and tie it to the new weapon. He may not tie himself to a weapon with an Ego score. If the Fallen's weapon is broken, his soul is immediately and forcefully untied from the weapon, causing him to suffer ability damage equal to 1/2 his Con score (rounded down).

The scry thing is ok, although it makes depriving the Fallen of his weapon that much harder. As for breaking the weapon, there probably needs a clarification on what ability scores take the damage, and if it is 1/2 of his current or standard Con score.


Defiled Soul (Ex): To better connect to his deity's divine power, the Fallen's soul is defiled in a long and painful ritual. He is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy. A Fallen's soul remains defiled for the rest of his life, or he does something to shift his alignment away from Evil. Should this happen, the Fallen's soul is no longer defiled, and he loses all his Fallen class features until he atones (see Atonement spell description). Defiled Soul can be used in place of the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability.

Decent fluff ability and restriciton, Tomb-Tainted Soul is an ok feat unless you have a dread necromancer on the team, but the restriction isn't too bad, and probably won't even go back to the good side of the force when you start using people as spell batteries.


Defiled Magic (Su): Unlike other spellcasters, a Fallen is not limihttp://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/editor/menupop.gifted to the meager energy his body can channel every day. In addition to the normal Spells per Day he gains, he is also able to use the life force stolen and stored in his Soul Weapon to power his spells. Instead of using his daily allotment of spells, the Fallen may choose to expend Blood Points equal to 4 x the level of the spell.

Defiled magic may only be used to cast spells that you already know if you are a spontaneous caster (such as a favored soul), or those which you had prepared for the day if you are a prepared caster (such as a cleric).
Any time the Fallen casts a spell this way, he may trace any somatic components with his Soul Weapon, rather than his hands.

This is what makes this a really good PrC. Every gish in the history of fighter/mages would kill for something like this. Giving this ability in full at first level makes this an almost irresistible dip for any one who can get in. Maybe limiting the level of the spells that can be cast and progressively increasing it could help reduce this. Something like 1-3rd at first level, 4-6th at 4th or 5th level (making it a logical breakoff point) and 7-9th at 7th or 8th level.

The ability to use the weapon for somatic components is also a nice touch.


Desecration Aura (Su): The Fallen's defilement continues to grow, effecting all around him. At level 2, all area within a 15 ft. radius of him is treated as being under the effects of the Desecrate spell. If the Fallen's aura clashes with a Consecrate effect, both effects are countered and dispelled as normal, then the aura returns one round later.

Another nice fluff ability. You should probably say if it can be suppressed by the Fallen, and I'd make it increase in size as the Fallen gains levels.


Unholy Weapon (Su): The fragment of defiled soul tied to the Fallen's Soul Weapon eventually corrupts it completely. At 3rd level, a Fallen's Soul Weapon is treated as an Unholy weapon. A weapon does not have to be masterwork or have a magical enhancement to be affected by this special ability.

Free damage against good people is decent, although the value of this varies entirely on the campaign.


Corrupt Channeling (Su): At 4th level, a Fallen has enough experience with his weapon to freely channel the life force trapped within it to corrupt his opponents. Once per round, as a free action, you may expend a total number of Blood Points up to his Wisdom Modifier (if any) to increase the damage your Soul Weapon deals. Each Blood Point spent in this way causes your weapon to deal an additional point of Negative Energy damage per attack until the beginning of your next turn.

This is a decent damage ability, but nothing out of this world, and it is almost entirely free. However, I feel that making it a Swift Action instead would make more of a tactical decision, especially on a character with quicken spell (and honestly, if you have a source of recharching spells, quicken spell is your new best friend)


Fear Aura (Su): The evil within the Fallen's soul is almost palpable. At 6th level, he gains a Fear Aura that radiates outward in a 10 ft. radius, that he may activate as a free action. Any creature caught in the aura must make a Will Save (10 + 1/2 caster Level + Wisdom modifier) or become shaken. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that Fallen's fear aura for 24 hours.

This is another decent ability, although making it a bit larger and team-friendly would make it a bit more useable (so you can't accidentaly make the BSF terrorized of your uber divine might).


Creeping Aura (Su): The Fallen's defilement is so strong that it's begun twisting those around him. At 8th level, whenever he uses his Fear Aura, all creatures within 5 ft. of him must make a Fort Save (10 + 1/2 caster level + Wisdom modifier) or become sickened. If a creature is already sickened, they become nauseated instead. A creature who successfully saves cannot be affected by that Fallen's Creeping Aura for another 24 hours.

Nice addition to your aura, making it a double threat, although here again, not very party friendly and very short range.


Corrupted Sight (Su): At level 8, the Fallen's defilement is nearly complete. Becoming one with the desecration emanating from him, the Fallen is treated as having Blindsight equal to the radius of his Desecration Aura.

Blindsight out to 15ft is ok, although if the radius of the desecrate increases, this becomes much more interesting.


Nightmare Blade (Su): At 9th level, the Fallen's corruption bites deeply into his opponent's soul. Each attack made while Corrupt Channeling is active has a chance to strike fear into his target. On a successful attack, the target must make a DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Blood Points expended Will Save or cower for 1 turn. Afterward, the target is panicked for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your Wisdom Modifier (if any). Once the effects of Nightmare Blade wear off, the target is immune to its effects for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Honestly, at this level, multiple uses of an ability like this against the same opponent shouldn't be too bad, as long as the cower effect can't be stacked before the panic ends. Also, the save DC should either be 1/2 caster level or full class level, to keep it relevant.


Blood Torrent (Su): At the peak of training and defilement, the Fallen learns to unleash the stored energy in his weapon in one massive, destructive burst. At 10th level, once per day a Fallen may expend all the Blood Points in his Soul Weapon at once, sending waves of crimson-colored negative energy radiating outward from the caster in a burst with a 30 ft. radius. Every creature within the blast must make a Will Save (10 + 1/2 caster level + Wisdom modifier) or die. Creatures who make a successful saving throw must make a second Will Save to avoid becoming stunned, and a Fort Save to avoid taking 1/2 the Fallen's Wisdom modifier in ability damage to their Constitution score.

In addition, the DCs for all three saving throws are increased by an amount equal to 1/10 of the Blood Points spent to activate this ability (minimum 1). Also, if a creature successfully makes their first Will Save, and fail their second, their stun duration is a number of rounds equal to this modifier. For example, if a Fallen used Blood Torrent while his weapon was storing 45 Blood Points, the DC for both saving throws would increase by +4, and the stun duration would last 4 rounds.

Nice capstone, maybe a bit powerful compared to a 9th level spell, but you gave a casting level for this.


All in all, a great PrC, although as it stands, the 1st level dip is too strong, as you get most of the class in that single level. Any one who can afford it will jump on this with no hesitation, the loss of a single caster level being more than compensated by theoretically unlimited casting.

[Greyfeld85]

Thanks for the feedback :) Some of it I see where you're coming from, other parts of it, I'd like to contest and see what you have to say about my approach. So I'll respond in blue, and you can reply whenever you get the chance :)


Full critique

Warning, long post



Prerequisites look ok, both clerics and paladins can enter at 9th level, although I could see the alignment being non-good instead of evil if you want to support the end justifies the means type of character dealing with dark forces for a greater good.

I hadn't thought of that, but you have a good point. And as long as I keep the deity evil, it should be fine.

Skill list looks ok, although 2 points per level is a little low. Making it 4 per level shouldn't break the game, and it adds a bit of OoC utility.

I went with 2/level because I didn't feel it was fair to give 3/4 spell progression, a ton of class features, AND more skill points. But if there are solid examples of classes that give all of the above, I could bump it up to 4/level.

Proficiencies are fine, you are probably already proficient with heavy armor, and martial weapons is only a slight boost for cleric entry.



Spellcasting is ok, 3 levels lost is pretty much the maximum for most fullcasters. The restriction on good spells is ok, although it feels a little tacked on (no real reason for it, apart from the evil-only alignment).

Actually, the restriction on good spells IS tacked on, but I added it because I felt like a strictly evil class has no excuse to be casting good-aligned spells. It was a fluff call, honestly.

Finally, the meat of the class. Draining Blood Points could be a bit too powerful with large numbers of attack (you can easily get 5 attacks even with a cleric, so easily 15 - 20 points per round, which is ), and the effect is oddly much more efficient against undeads than actual living beings (as they tend to have a lot of HDs). Also, this suffers from the bag of dead mice problem, meaning you can charge your Blood Points by killing defenseless creatures with 1 HD for free spells (the chicken infested flaw is particularly tasty with this). Maybe making it scale on enemy CR instead could help flatten out the curve, and placing a minimum on the enemy's power should eliminate most of the abuse.

Considering the brokenness of the CR system, I don't really feel comfortable scaling anything off of enemy CR. Not only that, but HD is directly related to enemy toughness and vitality, which is what the ability is keying in on, so it makes sense to me. If it helps, I can drop the "minimum 1" from the description (which means they'd have to kill something at least HD 4 to get any points), and restrict it to creatures with an intelligence score (so, no gelatinous cubes, no golems, no mindless undead, etc etc).


I like that the maximum amount of points scales with both levels and wisdom, but stays at a reasonable level (unless seriously buffed, you can't store more than 1 or 2 very high level spells).



The scry thing is ok, although it makes depriving the Fallen of his weapon that much harder. As for breaking the weapon, there probably needs a clarification on what ability scores take the damage, and if it is 1/2 of his current or standard Con score.

Since most of the class features require the weapon, and the weapon is tied directly to the soul of the Fallen, I felt it was acceptable to allow them to know the location of the weapon at all times. As far as the ability damage goes, I hadn't thought about that. 1/2 base Con score should be fine, yeah?

Decent fluff ability and restriciton, Tomb-Tainted Soul is an ok feat unless you have a dread necromancer on the team, but the restriction isn't too bad, and probably won't even go back to the good side of the force when you start using people as spell batteries.



This is what makes this a really good PrC. Every gish in the history of fighter/mages would kill for something like this. Giving this ability in full at first level makes this an almost irresistible dip for any one who can get in. Maybe limiting the level of the spells that can be cast and progressively increasing it could help reduce this. Something like 1-3rd at first level, 4-6th at 4th or 5th level (making it a logical breakoff point) and 7-9th at 7th or 8th level.

The ability to use the weapon for somatic components is also a nice touch.

While you have a point, refilling your blood points requires spending your standard/full round actions whacking away with your weapon (assuming I plug up the holes on building blood points), so it seems to me that it would really only benefit gishes who are going to spend a lot of time in melee anyway. Limiting the spell levels available by class level might be worth looking into, just to be on the safe side, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on my suggested changes to the blood points before I make any sweeping changes to one of the core abilities.

Another nice fluff ability. You should probably say if it can be suppressed by the Fallen, and I'd make it increase in size as the Fallen gains levels.

Since it emanates out due to the Fallen's corruption, I felt that having it always-on was more appropriate. Sort of like an unconscious reaction to the defilement. However, if you have a good reason why the class should be able to turn it off, I'll be happy to consider it.

Free damage against good people is decent, although the value of this varies entirely on the campaign.

Yeah, to be completely honest, I originally put Unholy Weapon in as a placeholder. The original idea was going to be a weapon enchantment that rose and fell depending on the number of blood points currently being held in the weapon. But I struggled to come up with an idea that was both fun and balanced. So I ended up sticking with the Unholy Weapon ability, even if it's not particularly useful for many campaigns.

This is a decent damage ability, but nothing out of this world, and it is almost entirely free. However, I feel that making it a Swift Action instead would make more of a tactical decision, especially on a character with quicken spell (and honestly, if you have a source of recharching spells, quicken spell is your new best friend)

This is a good point, and I was previously debating whether to go with a free action or a swift action. This just made up my mind for me :P

This is another decent ability, although making it a bit larger and team-friendly would make it a bit more useable (so you can't accidentaly make the BSF terrorized of your uber divine might).

I ripped it almost directly from the Dread Necromancer ability. I wanted to make it team-friendly, but I wasn't sure if it would be overpowered, especially as an every-round free action.

Nice addition to your aura, making it a double threat, although here again, not very party friendly and very short range.

Along the same lines as the fear aura, I wasn't sure if extending the range or making it team-friendly would unbalance the effect, especially since it fires off at the same time as the fear aura as well.

Blindsight out to 15ft is ok, although if the radius of the desecrate increases, this becomes much more interesting.

Since Blindsense isn't particularly easy to get in the first place (for non-monstrous characters), and any characters that take this class are going to be in melee, I figured 15 feet would be a wide enough range. But I'm open to tweaking it if it needs to be powered up a bit.

Honestly, at this level, multiple uses of an ability like this against the same opponent shouldn't be too bad, as long as the cower effect can't be stacked before the panic ends. Also, the save DC should either be 1/2 caster level or full class level, to keep it relevant.

Since it triggers off every successful attack (when corrupt channeling is active), I felt that 1/2 class level was acceptable. I suppose I can tweak the wording of the effect to make sure it can't be triggered again before the effect runs out on the same target.

Nice capstone, maybe a bit powerful compared to a 9th level spell, but you gave a casting level for this.


All in all, a great PrC, although as it stands, the 1st level dip is too strong, as you get most of the class in that single level. Any one who can afford it will jump on this with no hesitation, the loss of a single caster level being more than compensated by theoretically unlimited casting.

See my earlier comment about fixing the blood point acquisition.

[Greyfeld85]

still waiting on a response

[Dead_Jester]

I think the addition of the restriction on blood point acquisition is good, as it removes the most exploitable aspect of the class. However, I still think the spell levels should be limited by class level (if you dip, you still get your low level spells almost at will, but to get the most out of the ability, you need to dedicate more resources into the class, which I think is fair).

[Vlos]

Looks good, just a little clarification needed.


A Fallen's weapon (sometimes referred to as a Soul Weapon) gains the ability to drain targets of their life force. When the Fallen deals damage with his Soul Weapon, the weapon stores Blood Points equal to 1/4 of the target's HD (Minimum 1). A Soul Weapon may store a maximum of (Fallen level x 2) + (Wisdom modifier x 3) Blood Points.

The above line should probably read:
The weapon drains/steals Blood Points equal to 1/4 of the target's HD (Minimum 1).

The fact you stores? then in the next sentence go on to say it may store up to a maximum... doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also is this a conversion of damage dealt (which is why it's stores)? or is it additional damage dealt? Again not 100% clear.

So can a soul Weapon increase the normal amount of damage? or does it just store up blood points? Clarification.

If it increase the damage is this the 1/4 targets HD? And is this the only amount that is stored? or is all damage stored as blood points?

So if a long sword weapon does 1d8 and I attack a 4 HD creature, I add 1 blood point? Is that +1 to damage? How much is stored 1d8+1 or just the 1?

[Greyfeld85]

Looks good, just a little clarification needed.



The above line should probably read:
The weapon drains/steals Blood Points equal to 1/4 of the target's HD (Minimum 1).

The fact you stores? then in the next sentence go on to say it may store up to a maximum... doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Also is this a conversion of damage dealt (which is why it's stores)? or is it additional damage dealt? Again not 100% clear.

So can a soul Weapon increase the normal amount of damage? or does it just store up blood points? Clarification.

If it increase the damage is this the 1/4 targets HD? And is this the only amount that is stored? or is all damage stored as blood points?

So if a long sword weapon does 1d8 and I attack a 4 HD creature, I add 1 blood point? Is that +1 to damage? How much is stored 1d8+1 or just the 1?

Changed the wording from "stores" to "drains" in the first instance for the sake of clarification.

I don't know what you're going on about extra damage, there's no mention of a damage increase in that ability description.

[Greyfeld85]

I went back and integrated some of the ideas that were shared, as I saw fit. So any comments on the tweaks would be nice.

I've been considering changing Unholy Weapon to an ability that resembles the Soulknife. Essentially, spending blood points to give the weapon different enchantments for a limited period of time. But I'm not sure if that would be too much for this class considering its wealth of options already.

Alternatively, I thought that maybe the amount of blood points currently stored in the weapon could grant the weapon a boost to its enhancement level (Eg. 10-20 blood points makes it a +2 weapon, 20-30 points makes it a +3 weapon, etc etc), which would give the character a reason to hoard blood points on occasion instead of just blowing them all.

[Debihuman]

If the Fallen's divine spellcasting class is the Paladin (or any other class that loses its spellcasting upon multiclassing or changing alignments), his Fallen levels may continue progressing the spellcasting of that class, regardless of his previous class restrictions. A Fallen may not use any Good-aligned spells on any spell list.

A paladin loses her spells if she becomes non-lawful good and doesn't meet the prerequisite for this class, ability to cast 2nd level divine spells.

Debby

[Greyfeld85]

A paladin loses her spells if she becomes non-lawful good and doesn't meet the prerequisite for this class, ability to cast 2nd level divine spells.

Debby

*Sighs* Always with the rules lawyers.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate people pointing out errors in the wording of the class. If nothing else, making sure the prerequisites function properly is basic.

But if you're going to go out of your way to correct something pedantic like that, the least you could do is give a critique of the class as a whole, so I'm not just correcting verbiage errors.

Edit: The "Spells" requirement has been elaborated on, and the "Spellcasting" section has been cleaned up to reflect the new requirements.

[Greyfeld85]

It's been suggested to me that the few abilities with DCs linked to Caster Levels should be changed to Character Level or Class Level. The reasoning being that CL is supposedly ridiculously easy to pump as an evil character. I don't know if this is true or not, so anybody with experience is encouraged to give their voice on this topic.

[Greyfeld85]

A restriction on blood point acquisition was added to only work against targets with souls. Soulless targets include, but are not limited to, Golems, Oozes, Mindless Undead, Mindless Plants, and Animated Objects.

Since there is no precedence for "souled/soulless" creatures in D&D 3.5 that I'm aware of, I'm purposely leaving the description vague beyond those few examples so that DMs can decide for themselves which creatures fall under which category.

This restriction replaces my previous "doesn't work against mindless creatures" restriction. Any thoughts on the change would be appreciated.