[3.5] Robilar's Gambit and Karmic Strike and other AoO generators

[Laniius]

Which is better? Ignoring the prereq's for now. Robilar's Gambit gives enemies +4 to hit and damage against you, but every swing provokes an AoO.

Karmic Strike gives you a -4 AC, but every hit provokes an AoO, up to your max amount of AoO's per round.

It looks like you will always get an AoO from Robilar's Gambit whether they hit or not, while you only get an AoO if they hit with Karmic Strike, but they hit harder with Robilar's Gambit.

Are the extra AoO's from Robilar's Gambit in addition to the usual amount of AoO's you get, or are they free?

What about the AoO's from Thicket of Blades? Are they free?

I'm asking because Karmic Strike, Defensive sweep, and Defensive Rebuke (the manuever) specify that they do not grant extra AoOs; while Robilar's Gambit and Thicket of Blades make no such specification.

Also, is the AoO provoked by someone standing up from prone free?

While we're on the subject, if I have improved trip can I use my AoO to trip? What if I have Stand Still, can I use it on an AoO? Finally, can I power attack on an AoO? Also I don't think I can, but I have to ask: can I use a manuever on an AoO?

[Essence_of_War]

Which is better? Ignoring the prereq's for now. Robilar's Gambit gives enemies +4 to hit and damage against you, but every swing provokes an AoO.

Karmic Strike gives you a -4 AC, but every hit provokes an AoO, up to your max amount of AoO's per round.

It looks like you will always get an AoO from Robilar's Gambit whether they hit or not, while you only get an AoO if they hit with Karmic Strike, but they hit harder with Robilar's Gambit.


Neither of them is obviously better. Karmic Strike is available earlier, and for people with medium BAB (psychic warriors come to mind) is the only feasible option unless you start at high level.

It is VERY nice that Robilar's has no marginal pre-reqs.

It is VERY nice that you can use Karmic Strike before ECL 12 (16 for psywars or swordsages!)



Are the extra AoO's from Robilar's Gambit in addition to the usual amount of AoO's you get, or are they free?

What about the AoO's from Thicket of Blades? Are they free?

I'm asking because Karmic Strike, Defensive sweep, and Defensive Rebuke (the manuever) specify that they do not grant extra AoOs; while Robilar's Gambit and Thicket of Blades make no such specification.

Also, is the AoO provoked by someone standing up from prone free?


Karmic Strike is specific, but I'm pretty sure that unless a stance, maneuver, feat, etc explicitly says that the AoOs it gives are IN ADDITION to the normal number of AoOs you can make each round, they count against your usual limit.



While we're on the subject, if I have improved trip can I use my AoO to trip? What if I have Stand Still, can I use it on an AoO? Finally, can I power attack on an AoO? Also I don't think I can, but I have to ask: can I use a manuever on an AoO?

You sure can! Just remember, you can't trip someone who is already prone (the AoO from standing up from prone happens before they get back on their feet!). You can use Stand Still also!

By the wording of Power Attack:

Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Your "power attack number" is locked in during your turn, so if you've used power attack on your turn, you'd certainly get its benefits during AoOs triggered on other people's actions.

[DeltaEmil]

Are the extra AoO's from Robilar's Gambit in addition to the usual amount of AoO's you get, or are they free?No, they are not extra Attacks of Opportunies, nor are they free. Each Attack of Opportunity you make with them uses up your total AoO you could make per round. Robilar's Gambit has Combat Reflexes as a prerequisite.

What about the AoO's from Thicket of Blades? Are they free? None either. No AoO is ever free.

I'm asking because Karmic Strike, Defensive sweep, and Defensive Rebuke (the manuever) specify that they do not grant extra AoOs; while Robilar's Gambit and Thicket of Blades make no such specification.The specifications are not needed. The rules say that you can only ever make one AoO, unless you have the Combat Reflexes-feat, which grants you extra AoO equal to your Dexterity-modifier. The specifications done in the earlier book is because the 3.5-rules were quite new back then, so it was needed to make clear that you don't gain extra AoO. The later books like PHB 2 and ToB didn't need to repeat this anymore.

Also, is the AoO provoked by someone standing up from prone free?No.


While we're on the subject, if I have improved trip can I use my AoO to trip? Yes.

What if I have Stand Still, can I use it on an AoO? You replace the normal benefit of an AoO with the benefits from the Stand Still-feat.

Finally, can I power attack on an AoO? The benefit and penalties of Power Attack still remain while you make an AoO until the start of your next turn. So if you used Power Attack with let's say a -5 penalty to attack rolls (and made +5 damage with one-handed weapons or +10 damage with two-handed weapons or even more with Leap Attack and so on), your AoO still have the -5 penalty to the attack roll (and the bonus damage benefits if you hit). You don't get to decide to suddenly use Power Attack when making AoO, you have to make that decision at the very first attack roll in your turn.

Also I don't think I can, but I have to ask: can I use a manuever on an AoO?Mostly no, because most (strike) maneuvers are standard actions, not melee attacks (even although you do make melee attacks with most strike maneuvers). Assinine distinction, but that's the rules.

[Laniius]

You replace the normal benefit of an AoO with the benefits from the Stand Still-feat.

Ok, so whenever I get the opportunity to make an AoO I can use Stand Still instead? Thanks.

[DeltaEmil]

Yes. But you're still using up (one of) your AoO, if that's what you're getting at. No free AoO ever in 3.5.