3.5? What's that?

[Atemus]

So, I've decided to try it out, after sticking to AD&D for the past couple of years. I figured there was probably already a thread for new players somewhere, though I was unable to locate it.

If there is, I would be eternally grateful if someone could point me in that direction.

If there isn't,

Hi guys, would anyone care to help me learn how to play 3.5?

[Yuki Akuma]

This is a pretty good place to learn. Start from the top left and work down. (http://d20srd.org/)

The only things it's missing are experience points and wealth by level, which unfortunately means you'll need to buy the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide for Revised Third Edition D&D.

D&D 3.5 is a pretty old game and has been out of print for a while, so it's not a surprise there isn't a "new players" thread for it.

The major changes from AD&D are the way attack rolls are calculated, skills, saving throws, feats and multiclassing.

AC is now "higher is better". You attack by rolling a d20, adding your Base Attack Bonus and your relevent ability modifier (Strength for melee attacks, Dexterity for ranged attacks). If you match or exceed their AC, you hit.

Skills are what nonweapon proficiencies became. Each level you get skill points, determined by your class and your Intelligence score, which you can put into skills. Each point buys you one 'rank' (+1) in a class skill and half a rank in a cross-class skill. The maximum number of points you can put into a skill is your level + 3. When you roll a skill, you roll a d20 and add your ranks and a relevant ability modifier (for example, Tumble uses Dexterity, while Jump uses Strength). If you meet or exceed the DC (Difficulty Class) of the check, you succeed.

Saving throws are similar - you have three, Reflex, Fortitude and Will. Each class gets different saving throw modifiers (Rogues have good Reflex, Wizards have good Will, Fighters have good Fortitude, etc.). When you make a saving throw, you roll a d20 and add your class modifier and the relevant ability score modifier (Dexterity for Reflex, Constitution for Fortitude, Wisdom for Will) against the DC of whatever ability is provoking the saving throw.

Feats are special abilities gained at some levels. These can range from lowering penalties for fighting with two weapons, to letting you run faster, to being able to cast spells differently. Everyone gets a feat 1 first level and then every level divisible by 3. Some classes get extra feats at certain levels.

Multiclassing is no longer a nonhuman-only thing. Basically, when you level up, you select a class to gain a level in - either your current class or another class. So if your each level 2 as a Fighter, you can choose to either become a Fighter 2 or a Fighter 1/Barbarian 1, say. All classes use the same experience table - everyone reaches level 2 when they get 1000 experience points, everyone reaches level 3 when they get 3000, and such.

I think that covers the major differences?

Oh, and ability score modifiers are all Ability - 10 \ 2. The ability modifier for 12 and 13 is +1, 14 and 15 is +2, 16 and 17 is +3, etc.

[Answerer]

Some more subtle changes:

Creatures' HP totals are generally a lot higher.

Damage generally is not.

Spells are now very difficult to disrupt in most cases, and spellcasters may use the Concentration skill to avoid that happening.

The long and short of this is that direct damage is often sub-par, and status effect spells are often much more potent. Since the fighting classes, for the most part, cannot get those sorts of effects, and can only do damage, they tend to square off very poorly against magical classes.

[Atemus]

This is a pretty good place to learn. Start from the top left and work down. (http://d20srd.org/)

The only things it's missing are experience points and wealth by level, which unfortunately means you'll need to buy the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide for Revised Third Edition D&D.

D&D 3.5 is a pretty old game and has been out of print for a while, so it's not a surprise there isn't a "new players" thread for it.

The major changes from AD&D are the way attack rolls are calculated, skills, saving throws, feats and multiclassing.

AC is now "higher is better". You attack by rolling a d20, adding your Base Attack Bonus and your relevent ability modifier (Strength for melee attacks, Dexterity for ranged attacks). If you match or exceed their AC, you hit.

Skills are what nonweapon proficiencies became. Each level you get skill points, determined by your class and your Intelligence score, which you can put into skills. Each point buys you one 'rank' (+1) in a class skill and half a rank in a cross-class skill. The maximum number of points you can put into a skill is your level + 3. When you roll a skill, you roll a d20 and add your ranks and a relevant ability modifier (for example, Tumble uses Dexterity, while Jump uses Strength). If you meet or exceed the DC (Difficulty Class) of the check, you succeed.

Saving throws are similar - you have three, Reflex, Fortitude and Will. Each class gets different saving throw modifiers (Rogues have good Reflex, Wizards have good Will, Fighters have good Fortitude, etc.). When you make a saving throw, you roll a d20 and add your class modifier and the relevant ability score modifier (Dexterity for Reflex, Constitution for Fortitude, Wisdom for Will) against the DC of whatever ability is provoking the saving throw.

Feats are special abilities gained at some levels. These can range from lowering penalties for fighting with two weapons, to letting you run faster, to being able to cast spells differently. Everyone gets a feat 1 first level and then every level divisible by 3. Some classes get extra feats at certain levels.

Multiclassing is no longer a nonhuman-only thing. Basically, when you level up, you select a class to gain a level in - either your current class or another class. So if your each level 2 as a Fighter, you can choose to either become a Fighter 2 or a Fighter 1/Barbarian 1, say. All classes use the same experience table - everyone reaches level 2 when they get 1000 experience points, everyone reaches level 3 when they get 3000, and such.

I think that covers the major differences?

Oh, and ability score modifiers are all Ability - 10 \ 2. The ability modifier for 12 and 13 is +1, 14 and 15 is +2, 16 and 17 is +3, etc.

Thanks, that's actually pretty helpful. I had a slight idea of the combat changes, but skills and feats were terms that were kind of confusing for me.

[Starbuck_II]

Oh, Blind Fight and some others are/is no longer a non weapon proficiency but a feat.

No racial limit for class/no ability score minium for class (so you can have a Cha 9 Druid).

[Douglas]

AC is now "higher is better". You attack by rolling a d20, adding your Base Attack Bonus and your relevent ability modifier (Strength for melee attacks, Dexterity for ranged attacks). If you match or exceed their AC, you hit.

When you roll a skill, you roll a d20 and add your ranks and a relevant ability modifier (for example, Tumble uses Dexterity, while Jump uses Strength). If you meet or exceed the DC (Difficulty Class) of the check, you succeed.

Saving throws are similar - you have three, Reflex, Fortitude and Will. Each class gets different saving throw modifiers (Rogues have good Reflex, Wizards have good Will, Fighters have good Fortitude, etc.). When you make a saving throw, you roll a d20 and add your class modifier and the relevant ability score modifier (Dexterity for Reflex, Constitution for Fortitude, Wisdom for Will) against the DC of whatever ability is provoking the saving throw.
More generally, the behavior of almost all rolls that can be characterized as determining success or failure has been standardized - roll a d20, add your modifier, and compare to a target number. If the total of the die and modifier is equal to or greater than the target number, then you succeed; if not, you fail. This is part of a general shift towards being consistent that higher numbers are always better for whoever the number belongs to.


Multiclassing is no longer a nonhuman-only thing. Basically, when you level up, you select a class to gain a level in - either your current class or another class. So if your each level 2 as a Fighter, you can choose to either become a Fighter 2 or a Fighter 1/Barbarian 1, say. All classes use the same experience table - everyone reaches level 2 when they get 1000 experience points, everyone reaches level 3 when they get 3000, and such.
It might be more accurate to say that multiclassing (as it is defined in AD&D) no longer exists, and all races use dual classing instead - except that you don't lose the old class's abilities even temporarily, and experience required to advance is determined by the total of all your levels rather than your level in just the new class. Oh, and you can return to advancing the old class whenever you want (with a few specific exceptions, such as Paladin and Monk). Also, it's called multiclassing and there is no mechanic called dual classing.

[Chronos]

Yeah, everyone now uses the same XP table, and that XP determines your total level. So when you gain enough XP to reach 2nd level (which happens at the same time for all classes), you can take another level in your original class, or you can take the first level of some other class. A Fighter 4/Wizard 4 (not actually recommended, but just for example) is an 8th-level character, and has the same amount of XP as a pure Fighter 8, or a pure Wizard 8, or a Fighter 1/Rogue 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 1/Wizard 1/Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1 (which is also not recommended, but is perfectly legal).


More generally, the behavior of almost all rolls that can be characterized as determining success or failure has been standardized - roll a d20, add your modifier, and compare to a target number. If the total of the die and modifier is equal to or greater than the target number, then you succeed; if not, you fail. This is part of a general shift towards being consistent that higher numbers are always better for whoever the number belongs to.Just to add to this, the target number is usually called the "DC" (for "Difficulty Class") of the roll (except for attacks, in which case it's AC: Armor Class is the Difficulty Class of an attack roll). And the modifiers almost always include one ability score modifier (which is the same for all purposes: There's no longer a different bonus for, say, attack and damage with Strength, or initiative, AC, and saves for Dex), plus often something that scales with level in some way, plus miscellaneous assorted other modifiers (magical weapons, a Bless spell, a bard singing to help you, bonuses gained from race, class, or feats, etc.).

For attack rolls, the part that depends on level is your Base Attack Bonus, or BAB (which serves the same purpose that THAC0 used to). Fighter-types (fighters, rangers, barbarians, and paladins) have a BAB equal to their level. Wizards and sorcerers have a BAB equal to half their level, rounded down. Everyone else has a BAB equal to 3/4 their level, rounded down. If you have multiple classes, add the BAB together from each class. If your BAB is 6 or higher, you get extra attacks, at a lower bonus. For instance, the above-mentioned Fighter 4/Wizard 4 would have a total BAB of +6/+1: The four fighter levels give +4 and the four wizard levels give +2 for a total of +6, and +6 is enough to get a second attack at +1.

For saving throws, there are three different saves: Fortitude saves are for things that affect your body, like poison, death spells, and polymorph. They gain a bonus from your Con score. Reflex saves are mostly for area-of-effect damage like fireballs and most breath weapons, and gain a bonus from your Dex score. Will saves are mostly for things that affect your mind, like charm, domination, and Hold Person, and gain a bonus from your Wis score. Each class has a good or bad progression for each save. For instance, fighters have a good Fort save, but bad Reflex and Will. If a class has a good save progression, the base save bonus is 2 plus half your level, and if it has a bad save progression, the base save bonus is a third your level. Like with BAB, if you're multiclassed, find the base save bonuses for each of your classes, and add them together.

Skills replaced not only the nonweapon proficiencies, but also the thief special abilities like Hide, Move Silently, Pick Pockets (now renamed Sleight of Hand), etc. Each class gets some number of skill ranks each level (8 for rogues, 6 for bards and rangers, 2 for fighters and wizards, etc.). You also get more skill points if you have high Int: You add your Int modifier to the number of skill points from your class. You can spend these to buy ranks in skills, which add to your skill checks. The maximum amount of ranks you can have in a skill depends on your level. In principle, any class can take any skill, but it costs more ranks and you have a lower limit if you're taking skills that aren't class skills for you. So a rogue, bard, ranger, or monk (at least, if they make an effort at being good at it) will be better at moving silently than a wizard, barbarian, or cleric will be, but those classes can still make some effort at becoming quieter if they want.

[Answerer]

Fighter 1/Rogue 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 1/Wizard 1/Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1 (which is also not recommended, but is perfectly legal).
Actually, with Dynamic Priest... well, at least, it could at least have a purpose for most of those levels....