Yes Or Not Question About Tsukiko's Undead

[Alex Warlorn]

I have a very simple question. Were ALL of Tsukiko's undead in the room when Redcloak took them over and ordered them to kill her and destroy themselves?

Because I didn't see the member of Starshine's rebel party who was turned into one of Tsukiko's creatures there among those who killed her.

[JavaScribe]

That particular undead was destroyed shortly after its creation. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0521.html)

[Beanjamish]

She certainly made more undead than were in the room. We don't see the goblin prison guard, either. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html

Oh man I just so happened to have read Libris Mortis and looked into necromancers recently!

Seeing as we didn't hear anything about a sudden undead revolt, though, I think we can assume the undead she made are under control of goblin clerics, or allied by their own "free" will.

When someone is killed by a wight's energy drain, they become a wight under their killer's control. This can result in big family trees with several generations of wights. If one wight is killed, all of its spawn break free of its control. If newly free spawn has spawn of its own, they follow it.

So, if the wights Tsukiko had with her were her first-generation wights, then when Redcloak has them destroyed, all of their second-gen spawn gained free will.

Ghouls on the other hand, which it looks to me like the Goblin became, do not control their spawn. If someone dies from Ghoul Fever they become a new, free ghoul.

Additionally, the Create Undead spell does not automatically place that undead in your control. Animate Dead does that but it creates only mindless skeletons and zombies. So what I'm getting at, is Tsukiko either had some obscure ability, or was using either her Rebuke/Command ability from her Cleric levels or a spell like Command Undead to control her minions. She could only have so many of them in that way, so I assume Redcloak, Xykon, and maybe some bluecloaks have control of many of the undead she created - at least enough that if some went rogue upon her death they'd be put down fast enough.

Ghouls and Wights are sentient, too, so it's completely possible that they willingly allied themselves with Team Evil or Gobotopia if they thought it would benefit them in some way, or hid or fled once free of Tsukiko's hold.

[Gift Jeraff]

That particular undead was destroyed shortly after its creation. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0521.html)And then he came back. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)

[Beanjamish]

And then he came back. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)

Man now he STILL owes Belkar!

[JSSheridan]

When someone is killed by a wight's energy drain, they become a wight under their killer's control. This can result in big family trees with several generations of wights. If one wight is killed, all of its spawn break free of its control. If newly free spawn has spawn of its own, they follow it.

So, if the wights Tsukiko had with her were her first-generation wights, then when Redcloak has them destroyed, all of their second-gen spawn gained free will.

Ghouls on the other hand, which it looks to me like the Goblin became, do not control their spawn. If someone dies from Ghoul Fever they become a new, free ghoul.

Wights can be created with negative levels too.

d20srd.org: Energy Drain and Negative Levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm)

A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.

So if you enervation or energy drain someone to death, is the resulting wight free-willed? I'd think so since the spells say nothing.

[NerfTW]

It's not unlikely that every goblin cleric has a "control undead" spell prepared. It would be foolish not to while working around them.

[Beanjamish]

Wights can be created with negative levels too.

d20srd.org: Energy Drain and Negative Levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm)

A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.

So if you enervation or energy drain someone to death, is the resulting wight free-willed? I'd think so since the spells say nothing.

Huh! I didn't know that! Neat!
Yeah I assume you're right and those are free willed if the spell doesn't say otherwise.



It's not unlikely that every goblin cleric has a "control undead" spell prepared. It would be foolish not to while working around them.

Even if not, a low level cleric can at least Rebuke a typical wight or ghoul (make them cower in fear) with a decent roll.

[Kish]

It's not unlikely that every goblin cleric has a "control undead" spell prepared. It would be foolish not to while working around them.
It's very unlikely; Command Undead is an arcane spell.

It is, however, utterly certain that every goblin cleric* can rebuke undead.

Tsukiko's wights were generally created by Tsukiko's Amazing Wight-Making Spell. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11664910)

*Of the Dark One, that is, and converts to Loki, Tiamat, Rat, etc. Not the converts to Thor, Dragon, other etc.

[Alex Warlorn]

So that leaves the question if Redcloak bothered to do a sweep to get rid of the rest of Tsukiko's undead. Or because they were leaving that second, he goofed and figured they fall in line like good robots not realizing that without him casting control on the ones who weren't in that room, and with Tsukiko dead and gone, they were free to act on their own, and these goblins have become totally comfortable with having these monsters around. And suddenly they run wild.

[Crisis21]

I don't think it particularly matters to Redcloak how many of her undead are still around as only those in the room overheard what he said and could have blown the secret if asked.

[Morty]

It looks to me like you're trying to find consequences that aren't there or, more importantly, aren't really important.