A question about Vivisectionist Alchemists [Pathfinder]

[13ones]

I've got all the main stuff down. Skill point distribution, spells,discoveries and the like all down and ready to go. All I need to decide now is my method of attacking. I've looked into it and honestly I can't really decide. All of the options seem really, really powerful and effective that it's hard to narrow it down.

My options, as far as I see it, come down to three choices:

1) Two-Handed weapons
2)Two-Weapon fighting
3) Natural attacks with a Feral Mutagen, Amulet of Might Fists and Magic Fang up.

Suggestions? Comments?

[keldorn]

I haven't got Pathfinder, but I want to know whether ponies get vivisected by this character class.

[deuxhero]

What are your stats?

Two weapon fighting is only useful if you have sources of bonus damage, which you have.

I think Pathfinder changed how natural attacks combine with manufactured weapons, though that could have been unarmed strike combining with natural weapons only. In 3.5, if you wanted the most attacks, you could go for a hybrid as you can get two attacks at +6 BAB off your manufactured weapon, follow that with all your natural weapons.

[13ones]

Sorry, silly me. Totally forgot to include my build.

It's 25 point buy, starting at level 4.

I'll be playing a human with the following stat spread.

Str - 18 (+2 Racial bonus, level 4 stat increase)
Dex - 14
Con - 14
Int -14
Wis - 13
Cha - 5

Derp on my part.

[13ones]

Anyone else able to weigh in on this?

[NamelessNPC]

Well, with that strength and that dexterity, you don't want TWF; and with sneak attack at your disposal, I think natural attacks are the way to go.

[Ravens_cry]

I'd go Natural Attacks, like the freaky love child of Dr. Jekyll and Wolverine.
Rip and tear, rip and tear! You're huge, that means you have huge guts!

[stack]

Toss in the beastmorph archetype and you eventually get pounce as an option every time you use the mutagen.

But yeah, I would go for the natural attacks. Three at full BAB, plus power attack and sneak attack. If you don't go beastmorph there are ways to add poison as well. Not having bombs frees up your discoveries for other stuff. Alchemical allocation + potion of barkskin +5, extend if desired.
The only issue is that mutagen is 1/day. Duration is decent, but you still need a back-up weapon. Or go master chymest and get more uses a day.

[Cieyrin]

Toss in the beastmorph archetype and you eventually get pounce as an option every time you use the mutagen.

But yeah, I would go for the natural attacks. Three at full BAB, plus power attack and sneak attack. If you don't go beastmorph there are ways to add poison as well. Not having bombs frees up your discoveries for other stuff. Alchemical allocation + potion of barkskin +5, extend if desired.
The only issue is that mutagen is 1/day. Duration is decent, but you still need a back-up weapon. Or go master chymest and get more uses a day.

Infuse Mutagen can get you extra uses per day but that gets expensive fast. Dipping Master Chymist for 2 levels will get you 3 Mutagens per day at double duration from Extended Mutagen, so 180 minutes of Mr. Hyde each.

[Axier]

I still have a strange obsession with Alchemists using an injection spear...

Gutload of alchemist fire anyone?

[Nizaris]

I'm playing one right now as a two-hander and multi-classing flowing monk to throw in the Crane feats allowing me to trip as an immediate action when attacked and deflect a melee and a ranged attack each round. Strategy involves knocking someone down and not letting them get up using Quick Dirty Trick. Prone, staggered, and flat-footed opponents don't last very long.

[stack]

Flowing monk is only once per monk level each day, so its either not very helpful or not actually a 'dip'. You end up more monk than alchemist to really use it.

[Nizaris]

Flowing monk is only once per monk level each day, so its either not very helpful or not actually a 'dip'. You end up more monk than alchemist to really use it.

Second level ability - attacks of opportunity forces the one that got hit to make a reflex save or become flatfooted until the end of your next turn. The last crane style feat makes someone provoke an AoO when you decide that they miss. Free flatfooted condition every round they attack you, blind with a quick greater dirty trick of stagger them to keep them in place after you trip.

*edit* since you can trip in place of a AoO and Greater Trip gives you an AoO against someone you trip, you can force them to make the save twice versus becoming flat-footed.

[The Glyphstone]

I'd go Natural Attacks, like the freaky love child of Dr. Jekyll and Wolverine.
Rip and tear, rip and tear! You're huge, that means you have huge guts!

Yeah, be a berzerker-packing man and a half!:smallcool:

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah, be a berzerker-packing man and a half!:smallcool:
Maybe the mutagen makes him radioactive, that can't be good.:smallbiggrin:

[deuxhero]

Are there any alchemist abilities that have synergy with this here shotgun?

[Ravens_cry]

Actually, Mutagen *isn't* just once per day, it takes one hour to brew a new one, but there is, unless I am reading this wrong, nothing stopping you from brewing a new one once the old one runs out.
What are the requirements for brewing a mutagen, is it something that can be done on the move?

[Nizaris]

Actually, Mutagen *isn't* just once per day, it takes one hour to brew a new one, but there is, unless I am reading this wrong, nothing stopping you from brewing a new one once the old one runs out.
What are the requirements for brewing a mutagen, is it something that can be done on the move?

The only requirement is that you have an alchemist's kit. Once you gain persistent mutagen you can make one, use it, make another and go through your day and make another right before the first wears off

*stands corrected*

[The Glyphstone]

Are there any alchemist abilities that have synergy with this here shotgun?

What's the shotgun for? He's got natural weapons, the great communicator.

[Cieyrin]

The only requirement is that you have an alchemist's kit. Once you gain persistent mutagen you can make one, use it, make another and go through your day with another for as soon as the other's about to wear off.

Incorrect.


An alchemist can only maintain one dose of mutagen at a time—if he brews a second dose, any existing mutagen becomes inert. As with an extract or bomb, a mutagen that is not in an alchemist’s possession becomes inert until an alchemist picks it up again.

An alchemist can only have one made at a time, unless they get the Infuse Mutagen discovery, for which they have to pay for extra mutagens in gold and ability damage.

[deuxhero]

I don't see anything that says any currently ingested mutagens stop working.

[Cieyrin]

I don't see anything that says any currently ingested mutagens stop working.

That's because you normally only have one mutagen at a time, due to the restriction mentioned above. Infuse Mutagen and Master Chymist, which lets you mutate multiple times per day, makes mention of only having one mutagen in effect at a time.


This does not allow an alchemist to gain the effects of multiple mutagens—only the most recently imbibed mutagen has any effect.

Taking a mutagen or using the mutate ability again while in her mutagenic form works normally (with the new mutagen’s modifiers replacing the current modifiers, and the longer duration taking precedent).

[deuxhero]

I misread Nizaris's statement (missed the "about to") and was thinking preparing a second of using it AFTER it ran out.

[Nizaris]

That's because you normally only have one mutagen at a time, due to the restriction mentioned above. Infuse Mutagen and Master Chymist, which lets you mutate multiple times per day, makes mention of only having one mutagen in effect at a time.

I knew only the lasts imbibed one took effect but was under the apparently incorrect impression that you could have another mutagen on standby while the first was in effect as you would no longer have a mutagen dose prepared and thus not violating the rule that an alchemist can only have one mutagenic dose prepared at a time and said nothing of mutagenic effects directly.

[13ones]

Thanks guys. This has all been really helpful. I was playing a game with a Vivisectionist earlier in the year and he kind of ripped things in half with natural attacks plus a tentacle attack and it sort of inspired me to get this working. Thanks everyone.