3.5 Country builder, I need help!

[BelGareth]

Ok so first off here is whats going on.

I'm currently training at a job where I don't have access to the internet, because I don't have a desk but when I do, my internet access will be wide open while I'm at work. And it's the kind of job where I sit on my behind and wait until I'm needed (a helpdesk). And I will become a 'person' in a month.

SOOooo, I want to start a recruitment thread for a game Idea i have, which will hopefully start in a month or so.

The idea is the players have a main PC with all the Leadership Feats for free (i'm thinking 15th) who will act as the leader of their people, and then they will have a race to control.

I'm thinking about 5-6 players and their corresponding races/civilizations.

So what I need help with is the rules for the civilizations, how to determine the Tax from the population, the population growth, production (food, wood, ore etc), Expert to commoner ratio, bonuses for specific races (Dwarves gain mining bonuses) etc...

So the intent is to start out with a 5-6 races smallish in size and run the world (with 1-2 NPC races) as a sandbox game and go from there.

I also need to come up with some way to make sure the starting races are unique, as in they all don't start with a city of X amount of Y race.

Maybe they have a certain amount of resources to spend and they can 'buy' their starting organization/city. (saw this in another game)

As in they all receive 100K and can 'buy' the following:
25K small kingdom (has X NPC's and Y PC's)
50K medium kingdom (has X NPC's and Y PC's)
75K Large kingdom (has X NPC's and Y PC's)
100K Huge kingdom (has X NPC's and Y PC's)
30K small Temple (has X npc's and Y religious PC's)

The players would also be creating there own racial god.

Sorry 'bout the wall'o'text.

[Grinner]

My first thought is to drop D&D entirely.

Dungeons and Dragons was derived from wargames, where each player would command entire armies, but Gary Gygax and friends thought to focus on individual character interactions instead of sweeping battles.

So D&D is, by design, one of the worst systems you could use for this idea.

[Zale]

I would second that.

It would be easier to create a new simple system to manage it.

If people want to play as individuals, just use what they've made in the Nation Game and use it as a setting.

[BelGareth]

Sorry for the lack of clarity, but I was actually heading in that direction.

it would be 3.5 with a set of rules for the kingdom they made. That's what I'm asking help for.

Some more ideas:


As basic as possible to reduce confusion and increase PC gameplay.
Population growth based off Population happiness and Racial modifiers. (i'm thinking 2.5% or something similarly low)
Tax based of population (set by the player, the higher it is, the lower the happiness)
Specific buildings can raise the happiness of the population (church, tavern, etc...) Prices for these buildings will be based of the stronghold guide.
Specific resources from Hexes in game (from the map)
Racial modifiers for resources (Dwarves can mine better)
Population increase is purely organic and does not require building new houses, this happens automatically.


Just need to figure out some numbers, I think taxes will be based solely off the population number and how many Experts you have. It will also be based off the average salary a commoner can make, and every level of expert you have will increase the income exponentially (as in a 10th level expert is WAY better than a 5th level expert and not just twice as much)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

So we'd be playing a PC who's in command of a Nation? I like it! Count me in. Just...how much of 3.5 would be involved? Doesn't seem like the best system for running a whole country.

Racial modifiers, eh? So Dwarves are better with mining and stonework, Elves are efficient with lumber and mages (magic in setting?), but what would Humans be best at?

[bobthe6th]

you could run it like masters of magic(great old game) but with all PC nations... MoM is such a great setting in it's own right, and it is simple enough to build on...

[Zale]

So we'd be playing a PC who's in command of a Nation? I like it! Count me in. Just...how much of 3.5 would be involved? Doesn't seem like the best system for running a whole country.

Racial modifiers, eh? So Dwarves are better with mining and stonework, Elves are efficient with lumber and mages (magic in setting?), but what would Humans be best at?

Lumber? Elves?

I suppose Humans would be able to choose a bonus?

Well, I guess a smart thing to do would be to separate various tax-deductable industries.

For example, the Mining, Lumber, Construction, Spellcraft(?).

[Yitzi]

You want a different system, perhaps using D&D only when the PCs themselves get involved.

[BelGareth]

So we'd be playing a PC who's in command of a Nation? I like it! Count me in. Just...how much of 3.5 would be involved? Doesn't seem like the best system for running a whole country.

Racial modifiers, eh? So Dwarves are better with mining and stonework, Elves are efficient with lumber and mages (magic in setting?), but what would Humans be best at?

Thats what I as looking for, just to be clear however, this isn't a recruitment thread (that will come later).


you could run it like masters of magic(great old game) but with all PC nations... MoM is such a great setting in it's own right, and it is simple enough to build on...
Not familiar with it, is there an online resource?


Lumber? Elves?

I suppose Humans would be able to choose a bonus?

Well, I guess a smart thing to do would be to separate various tax-deductable industries.

For example, the Mining, Lumber, Construction, Spellcraft(?).
I was thinking the same thing, Elves would be the opposite of lumber,

Maybe orcs/humans get a bonus to lumber, heck Elves could to, it's just different the way they get it/

Orc's/humans cut it down, elves cultivate it and take only what they need.

I was thinking a high pop growth rate for humans (like 10%) and nothing else (this would be a curse and a boon)

Also another thought.
Each city is taxed and grows individually, making it possible for cities to rebel against you and start their own empires.

Note: as some point I will organize and actually start mapping out numbers and things, right now im just brainstorming.

[bobthe6th]

MoM is a old game, close to fantesy civilazation. Has nice mechanics though, so I could see converting it to PbP

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Thats what I as looking for, just to be clear however, this isn't a recruitment thread (that will come later).

I know, just saying this sounds awesome. I'll be watching for that thread.


I was thinking the same thing, Elves would be the opposite of lumber,

Not if you play them right...:smallamused::smalltongue:


Each city is taxed and grows individually, making it possible for cities to rebel against you and start their own empires.

Sounds good. I sort of want to see interactions between the PCs and these cities' governors and important officials. Like when the PCs build their nations, the DM decides which major cities of theirs are big enough for governors, minor NPCs with a single trait or quirk. The Governor of City 1 could be known for corruption, leading to lower productivity but higher contentment (at least from those in on the graft). Or City 2 has a Governor who is a tried and true military hero, enacting strict law and order, increasing production but lowering general happiness. The PCs wold have to work with these Governors (or against I suppose). Might be too complex an idea, juts throwing it out there.

[BelGareth]

I know, just saying this sounds awesome. I'll be watching for that thread.



Not if you play them right...:smallamused::smalltongue:



Sounds good. I sort of want to see interactions between the PCs and these cities' governors and important officials. Like when the PCs build their nations, the DM decides which major cities of theirs are big enough for governors, minor NPCs with a single trait or quirk. The Governor of City 1 could be known for corruption, leading to lower productivity but higher contentment (at least from those in on the graft). Or City 2 has a Governor who is a tried and true military hero, enacting strict law and order, increasing production but lowering general happiness. The PCs wold have to work with these Governors (or against I suppose). Might be too complex an idea, juts throwing it out there.

Awesome.

That sounds great I was thinking something along the same lines.

Governors will be NPC's, but they will mostly be influenced by your PC's, as they will be the 'Paragon' leader of your race.

But yes, your getting the jist I'm going for.

Here's what I'm thinking:

Population -
I'm going to differentiate a difference between some of the NPC classes, NPC's are people/creatures who have taken an NPC class (Adept, Warrior, Expert), Commoners are the lowest average racial archtype, Aristocrats are the nobilitas and experts.
60% - commoners
25% - Experts
10% - NPC's
5% - Aristocrats

Taxes -
Base 5%, Adjust by 1% every month
Avg Commoner income (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12276.0) - 18 GP, 6 SP
Avg Expert income -
This should take into consideration, higher stats (for being a NPC), items and most likely a skill focus, and then be based off the profession (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm) check from the SRD

{table=head]Lvl|Income (gp/Month)
1|76
2|80
3|92
4|100
5|108
6|112
7|116
8|128
9|132
10|140
11|144
12|160
[/table]


Avg NPC income -
This is slightly different than Experts, these are the NON PC adventurers or key players of the city, they demand an actual decent salary or gain it through skill.

{table=head]Lvl|Income (gp/Month)
1|60
2|65
3|70
4|80
5|90
6|105
7|120
8|140
9|170
10|200
11|240
12|280
[/table]


Avg Aristocrat income -
These are the noble's of the city, they have money either by blood or by sheer will power and have become a noble (or some other noble type)

{table=head]Lvl|Income (gp/Month)
1|0
2|10
3|20
4|40
5|80
6|160
7|320
8|640
9|1280
10|2560
11|5120
12|10240
[/table]


Happiness -
Directly related to Taxes, there will also be a DM discretion modifier(to cover everything that can come up), and possibly a racial modifier. This will also be an invisible number to the players.

Peace/War - dependent on race -/+ 5%/month
City is being Seiged -10%/week
Hunger -5%/month
Taxes -(5 - tax amount)%/month

To do -
Trade - Specific resources can be traded, provide economic boon, and monetary boon. (like mithral, iron ore, timber etc...) this will be enhanced with specific areas of the map containing specific resources.
Races - Each race to have it's own specific racial bonuses.
Orcs
Humans(es)
Elves
Dwarfs
Frost Giants
Lupins
Halfings
Gnomes
Duergar
Snirvfeblin
Drow
Firbolgs
Possibly a choice to make each branch of the race unique. As in Iron dwarves, Desert Dwarves, Jungle Dwarves etc....

[Gaiyamato]

I have run these twice on RPOL and I am playing in one run almost the same here in Giantitp.
The problem is that D&D is far too detailed for this. Some players in the giantitp forums game made their own wiki website just to keep track!

Check out Fields of Blood - The book of War.

Still D&D but the game changes focus to running a kingdom.