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ScubaGoomba
2012-04-01, 11:25 PM
My PCs picked up an Evil companion today. More specifically, they were in a battle with a lackey of their current BBEG and decided to spare him under the condition that he lead them where they want to go.

I don't plan on him making their lives easier, and he already passed his Bluff when saying he'd guide them, but how should he act on the way there? I'm sure they'll pressure him into fighting for them and he's far too cowardly to risk them killing him, but how much should he really be helping them?

I'm thinking of him just not using his spells optimally and maybe debuffing them when they're not paying attention, but not overtly attacking them when in trouble. If it's a situation where he'd have to fight or die then, of course, he'd save his skin when possible.

Thoughts? Anybody do anything like this?

bloodtide
2012-04-01, 11:36 PM
Sure, I do this all the time. My players 'Trust no One'.

Some fun things to do:

1.Make the NPC just non-combative. Have them be more of a 'middle management type'. So they have almost no combat stuff at all.

2.Make them bad at what they do anyway. If they are a fighter they have a Str of 11, a wizard an Int of 8 and so forth. You can also simply have them make 'bad choices'. For example shooting off a single magic missile at a big target for like 2 damage, instead of taking out the 1 hp minion.

3.Make them incompetent. They cast web on everyone, they toss a fireball in a 10x 10 room, they always charge and so on.

4.Make them always trying to get away.

5.Have way too much fun with it. I call this Dr. Smithing it, after Dr. Smith from lost in space. They swing their weapon once....well, then it's time for a tea break. They need to watch something, they do so from a hammock under a fan and sombrero. They need to do something...you should not have even bothered to ask...

Lord Tyger
2012-04-01, 11:56 PM
Two basic options.

1) Betrayal as soon as possible. The next time the party forgets to guard him while they sleep, or the next time they're distracted by a fight, he heads for the hills.

2) Wait until the most strategic moment. Throw himself into helping the party out (though obviously not so as to put himself in mortal danger) until they come to view him as an actual ally, and then cut their throats in their sleep or lead them into a dragon cave or some such.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-04-01, 11:57 PM
Well he's a prisoner and a prisoners first duty is to escape. So yes while in combat he might defend himself if he gets attacked, but if the rest of the party is fighting and he's not in any immediate danger have him try to escape.

Depending on the PC's and the characters general personality he'd probably either be quiet, passive-aggressive or overly friendly (to trick them into trusting him/letting him go.)

Do exactly nothing unless specifically told to do it (and depending on attitude pointing out that it's generally not nice for good characters to treat prisoners as slaves etc. etc.). Want him to help in a fight? Ask. If asked specify what he's supposed to target. Want him to pay attention to their surroundings? Ask. If asked make them specify what he should be paying attention to. Heck want him to take the coffee pot of the fire before it burns? Ask.

Possibly have him try to sabotage them when he can. stealing/hiding items, cutting a rope, whatever he can get away with really.

W3bDragon
2012-04-02, 05:01 AM
Here's a fun one:

He leads them to a tribe of goblins/hobgoblins/(insert local tribe of bad guys here). He says he needs to talk his way past them, and asks the PCs to wait. He goes to the leader of the tribe and says: "You have heard of my boss the BBEG? He's powerful and wealthy. He will reward you if you help me out. These dumb meddlers have captured me. Help me fight them and you'll be well rewarded. They also happen to be loaded with valuables that you can have."

Bonus points for him turning around and winking at the PCs halfway through his chat with the leader while giving them a thumbs up.

Of course, if you want more useful advice, we need more information. What are the PCs capable of? What are their alignments? What's the evil companion capable of? What about the BBEG? Is he well known? What's his story? Also, where are they right now? Where is the evil companion supposed to be leading them to?

DigoDragon
2012-04-02, 07:02 AM
I had a similar situation like this. The minion lasted all of one session with the group. At the beginning of the next session the party camped out in the wilderness and left the mook to stand guard overnight. Alone.
Next morning the PCs wake up and the mook was long gone. Suckers.

(Though the mook smartly didn't steal anything off the PCs. That would just be asking to be hunted down).

ScubaGoomba
2012-04-02, 04:39 PM
Of course, if you want more useful advice, we need more information. What are the PCs capable of? What are their alignments? What's the evil companion capable of? What about the BBEG? Is he well known? What's his story? Also, where are they right now? Where is the evil companion supposed to be leading them to?

Right, of course!

The PCs are APL 5 (using Pathfinder) right now, all fairly Chaotic Neutral in alignment. Thankfully, they've moved away from being the Sadistic Evil interpretation of CN and are now mostly a group that has generally good intentions, but isn't afraid to get their hands dirty, deal around with scum, and they have little care for respecting legal establishments. There are some shades of good in the party (namely in the Cleric and pure Fighter), but everyone still leans Neutral.

For the individual characters, we have a Gunslinger 4/Rogue 1 (focuses on stealth), Fighter 5 (greataxe and throwing), Cleric 5 (Healing and Fire domains), Druid 4 (Saurian Shaman with a badass pachycephalosaurs in tow), and Barbarian 3/Fighter 1 (huge damage output, big weapons, etc.).

The prisoner is an Aberration Blood sorcerer 6, with his spell selection centered mostly around buffs and debuffs, with a few damaging spells thrown into the mix. His big Achilles Heel is that he's absolutely spineless; his score of 8 in Wisdom comes through with his lack of a backbone. He strikes bargains to get out of any kind of situation, trying to use his arcane power and knowledge to gain an edge in situations and stay alive.

The BBEG is more of a personal rival to the PCs. He's the son of a character from a previous campaign who was played by a friend of ours as a one-off. He came in and, despite being absolutely absurd (a Bullywug wielding a Greataxe in his tongue with thunder powers), the guy would not die despite being brought to 1hp twice by attacks in the 40 damage range. He became a running gag amongst the group as this evil nemesis that they'd eventually have to face. Since the game is a few generations later, his son is now a menace.

With that said, he's not a worldwide menace just yet. His father was questing to acquire the power from three legendary birds in order to control them and the fourth bird, living in the sea. With such limitless power, you basically are free to ascend to godhood. He was unable to complete the quest, so his son is now on his way to both complete the quest and avenge his father for past misdeeds (I've left it ambiguous about how the elder Croaktar died, but likely at the hands of the last adventuring party post-campaign).

The players' party, of course, consists of a few legacies from that game (and one other two-off character who we decided managed a kind of immunity to aging but is still hopelessly stupid), so Croaktar the Younger is making a point to take them out, specifically. With his quest in mind, he won't bother stopping to find and kill them, but he's got cronies that can do his dirty work.

The evil companion is leading them to Croaktar in the desert where the second bird is said to be located. Right now, the party is on their way back home after finishing their first big quest and will, presumably, be going from there into the desert.

For the next session, he's leading them into a cave with crystals he was supposed to harvest for Croaktar to use as a focus for a dowsing rod that will hone in on the bird's location. I haven't yet decided if this is a ruse and he's trying to get them killed, if it's a lie that Croaktar told the sorcerer to get rid of him, or if it's a lie made by the sorcerer to get the players to think he's helping them even more.

There are really a lot of ways I can go with this, so I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks about it. I don't want him to be too engaged so he doesn't outshine anyone in the party, but I don't really want him to just be luggage.

Friv
2012-04-02, 11:13 PM
I am going to buck the trend.

Have the minion help them. Like honestly, totally, and only looking for a chance to slip away. Let the minion lead them straight to Croaktar, and then make a run for it once they get into battle.

Then, the next bad guy that they run into, who should be standing at his side but that same minion. Who is willing to cut a deal in exchange for his life...

Seriously, if your party is just getting out of the "murder everything" path, you do NOT want to make the first guy they strike a deal with betray them. They'll jump right back to murdering everyone first and asking questions never.

Averis Vol
2012-04-02, 11:44 PM
what you could do is have the captive take them the longest way possible to the BBEG, if the party confronts him tell them thats the only way he knows, maybe buying the BBEG enough time to get the bird and head onto the next one, then once they get within sight he tells them he fulfilled his part of the bargain now he wants to be let free, Falsely promising to not attack or return to the BBEG. so they go in, find nothing and Mr. sorcerer's off to find his master. and if you play it in the traditional mask way you wont even have to roll a bluff check, you never actually lied to them. :smallbiggrin:

W3bDragon
2012-04-03, 05:16 AM
First off, I have to agree with Friv on this one. This is the perfect time to reward them for stepping away from sadistic evil as you put it.

If the NPC in question really is that spineless, in truth he'll probably be too afraid to plan any kind of escape. Realistically, he'll probably lead them to his boss as best as he can. Especially with so many scary members of the party, its doubtful he'll be very duplicitous, at least at first. However, since its going to be a long trip, he'll have plenty of time to gain their trust and to scrounge up some courage. Go ahead and play up the spineless aspect until they feel that he's not really capable of trying to betray them.

However, you should set a small contingency plan in place. For example:

If the NPC is ever;

Within one day's walking distance of some kind of civilization, city or village;
Is in a position to get an hour headstart on the PCs before they chase him;
Has learned something useful about the PCs that could spare his life with the BBEG;

then he makes a run for it. However, if all of these don't coincide, he stays put and remains his spineless but helpful self, perhaps hoping that the BBEG will be able to take care of them when the time comes.

Epsilon Rose
2012-04-03, 04:20 PM
Depending on how savvy characters in your campaign are I say help them. Help them for all he's worth. Have him go out of his way to help them. If he can manage it, make him indispensable.

Then use him to subvert the PCs. Direct them towards rival BBEGs, paint good organizations in a bad light and get them to attack those two talk about the BBEG in a sympathetic light and get them to empathize with him (or if he's more ambitious paint himself in a sympathetic light and try for a coupe).

Best case scenario: he flips them. More likely scenario: he buys his boss some time and takes out a few rival groups. Worst case: he's annoying and they ignore him most of the time, but he's helpful and there's no reason not to let him [cook their meals/stand watch/guide them through traps/help at the last battle] and that's the perfect time to betray them.

The point of this is he should think longer term, if this group is good at what they do (and they're PCs so they are) then he might stand to gain quite a bit by sticking with them for a while.

Edit: I should probably add that if he actually manages to flip them there should be some gains involved for the PCs and none of this really relies on wisdom or courage, but charisma and maybe a bit of int (after all, the safest thing you can do while surrounded by a bunch of murderous demigods PCs is be their friend).

Morithias
2012-04-03, 05:41 PM
I am going to buck the trend.

Have the minion help them. Like honestly, totally, and only looking for a chance to slip away. Let the minion lead them straight to Croaktar, and then make a run for it once they get into battle.

Then, the next bad guy that they run into, who should be standing at his side but that same minion. Who is willing to cut a deal in exchange for his life...

Seriously, if your party is just getting out of the "murder everything" path, you do NOT want to make the first guy they strike a deal with betray them. They'll jump right back to murdering everyone first and asking questions never.

And believe me. Getting your PC's out of that mindset is one of the greatest things that can happen to a DM. Nurture it, don't destroy it.

graymagiker
2012-04-03, 05:57 PM
after all, the safest thing you can do while surrounded by a bunch of murderous demigods PCs is be their friend).


This. He is evil, but not stupid. And besides, these guys (the PCs) just might kill his former boss. If they do, and he was genuinely helpfull then they might let him live. Also the party isn't exactly good, so working with this evil blood sorcerer isn't going to be a deal breaker.

I would have the NPC live beyond the defeat of the BBEG. He won't exactly be a friend of the PCs, but he'll be a resource. It's always helpfull to have a magic user that you can bully into doing what you want, and this guy fits the bill. That way he can be a recurring character, though being spineless it is clear that he won't overshadow the PCs; but they should be savy enough to realize they can boss him arround and reap the benefits.