The way around.

[Doomboy911]

So I've got a build in mind which is basically a caster with all the spells my thinking was that I could use the mystic theurge and a scroll for all the things I don't have but apparently if the spell is in a different class list I can't use it. Anyway know a way around this? Couldn't I just use a big spellcraft check to try and figure it out or something?

[Elric VIII]

How do you feel about Artificer?

They have the ability to create wands/scrolls/staves of any spell in the game.

[gorfnab]

Archivist (HoH) has access to all divine spells and most of the decent arcane spells (through domains).

[Demon of Death]

As this is somewhat related, here's the cost for a scroll of every single Wizard spell in 3.5

4,500-1st Level Spells
39,00-2nd Level Spells
96,750-3rd Level Spells
167,300-4th Level Spells
243,000-5th Level Spells
265,650-6th Level Spells
261,625-7th Level Spells
321,000-8th Level Spells
374,850-9th Level Spells
1,738,575 Gold for all Spells

I'm working on one for Divine as well, that takes a lot longer though with more divine casters and the partial casters that get spells at lower levels.

[Bovine Colonel]

Put ranks into Use Magic Device?

[Doomboy911]

Ok so I'm able to use spells that aren't part of my class spells as long as I have a scroll or wand for it?

[ericgrau]

Nope they must be on your class list to use wands or scrolls. Unless you make a use magic device check. If you want to access more than 2 classes that's how I'd do it.

Interestingly enough use magic device is on the loremaster skill list so that's one way you might get it while staying a major caster. It's hard to get into loremaster as a low level sorcerer (the cha and full casting would be ideal if you could) but there are all kinds of other ways to get in. You only need 1 level of loremaster to get UMD on your class list and then for future levels you just have to pay double for ranks that's all.

[Doomboy911]

Yeah but I'm playing a mystic theurge going cleric/wizard (for that is awesome) I than spend a grand amount on spellcraft and use magic device. I come across a wand for a wu jen spell and decide to use it. Does it blow up in my face or does the spell go off without a hitch?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Yeah but I'm playing a mystic theurge going cleric/wizard (for that is awesome) I than spend a grand amount on spellcraft and use magic device. I come across a wand for a wu jen spell and decide to use it. Does it blow up in my face or does the spell go off without a hitch?

Depends on your UMD check. It doesn't blow up in your face but it doesnt function unless you hit 20 (for wands) or 20+spell level (for scrolls). And if you fail your check the wand still uses up a charge and the scoll is still expanded but niether are actually cast. On a 1, you can't use that item for 24 hours.

[erikun]

I come across a wand for a wu jen spell and decide to use it. Does it blow up in my face or does the spell go off without a hitch?
If you don't have Use Magic Device? Nothing happens. You wave a stick around for a bit.

If you do have Use Magic Device, it depends on your roll. A good roll allows you to use it; a bad roll does nothing. Failing the check by 5 (if I recall correctly) causes it to backfire, and you can't use it further for the rest of the day.


I think most of the options have already been mentioned. Artificer, Archivist, Wizard, and anything with Use Magic Device. Loremaster and Ultimate Magus are probably two of the easiest, although anything with the Able Learner feat (along with Human Paragon) will net you the skill as well.

[ericgrau]

Yeah but I'm playing a mystic theurge going cleric/wizard (for that is awesome) I than spend a grand amount on spellcraft and use magic device. I come across a wand for a wu jen spell and decide to use it. Does it blow up in my face or does the spell go off without a hitch?

You could do a cleric/sorcerer theurge and/or dip only a single level of loremaster. You lose a caster level but it's only in one of your two classes but you get use magic device and can now use scrolls, wands and staffs from every class.

I might favor staying wizard/cleric but getting the highest reasonable charisma you can without compromising your other abilities too much. Then dip 1 level of loremaster or better yet find a feat or obscure cleric variant (?) or etc. to get use magic device as a class skill. You might get a circlet of persuasion for another +3 if you can work around the item slots. You won't be able to use scrolls and wands that reliably until higher levels but this will be the least harmful to your main 2 casting classes.

[Doomboy911]

Depends on your UMD check. It doesn't blow up in your face but it doesnt function unless you hit 20 (for wands) or 20+spell level (for scrolls). And if you fail your check the wand still uses up a charge and the scoll is still expanded but niether are actually cast. On a 1, you can't use that item for 24 hours.

Fantastic it's an epic level build and I've got a 30 in umd so no matter what I can't fail. Alright boys and girls I've got my favorite build.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Fantastic it's an epic level build and I've got a 30 in umd so no matter what I can't fail. Alright boys and girls I've got my favorite build.

If you get a 1 on the d20, you auto-fail and the item can't be used for 24 and the use is still expended. So you have a 5% of failure regardles (unless you take enough levels of Warlock to take 10 on UMD)

[ericgrau]

Since it's epic level he can carry spares for most items. I'd take multiple scrolls from every class list. Heck since it's epic I'd get staffs from every class list. With level 9 spells. Staffs are also a DC 20 use magic device check even for 9th level spells. I might only get 1 staff per class (in addition to a billion scrolls and wands) but if you roll a nat 1 you can always use different spells instead.

[SirFredgar]

Does failing a UMD Check even use a charge? The way I read the skill is that if you fail the UMD roll, you simply fail to activate that item. It never states (that I can see) that is uses a charge to do so.

Or is that information located outside of the UMD skill description?

[Doomboy911]

Well my plan consists of taking over a mage college and just have the students pump out scrolls of their spells on like a weekly basis than collect.

[Yuki Akuma]

I really think just going Artificer would suit your purposes better. Wizard/Cleric is actually not a good Mystic Theurge build - and the epic Mystic Theurge is useless anyway.

[FMArthur]

For a combination with Wizard in a theurge build, Archivist is better than Cleric because it's mostly Int-based.

For a character trying to cast every spell, Archivist is better than Cleric because it naturally casts from every divine caster's list, including all domains.

So I think you should probably take a look at Archivist if you choose not to go Artificer.

[The-Mage-King]

If you get a 1 on the d20, you auto-fail and the item can't be used for 24 and the use is still expended. So you have a 5% of failure regardles (unless you take enough levels of Warlock to take 10 on UMD)

Wrong on the auto-fail. Stop confusing houserules with RAW.


Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure.

:smallamused:

Now, if you DON'T have +19 to UMD, then you're in trouble.

[Yuki Akuma]

Wrong on the auto-fail. Stop confusing houserules with RAW.



:smallamused:

...


Try Again
Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

Stop confusing general rules for specific rules. :smallannoyed:

[The-Mage-King]

...



Stop confusing general rules for specific rules. :smallannoyed:


...


Wrong on the auto-fail. [...]

Now, if you DON'T have +19 to UMD, then you're in trouble.

Stop forgetting to read the whole of the post.

:smalltongue:


EDIT: Note that this was on the subject of wands, not any other sort of item needing UMD.

[FMArthur]

Making mistakes and pretending you didn't seems to be the modus operandi of the whole internet.

[Morph Bark]

To clarify, it seems that The-Mage-King means to say that if you roll a natural 1, but have a high enough modifier to hit the necessary DC, you don't fail the UMD check and therefore the item does not stop functioning for 24 hours.

Figured I'd clarify since my initial reaction was to tell him he was being wrong and stubborn. :smalltongue:

[ericgrau]

Ugh that's right. Annoying how confusing UMD is on 1s.

Ok then you can use staffs with spells of any spell level from any class without rolling. And unlike other magic items staff spells are just as good as the real thing. And at epic level you can afford high level staffs. Go to town. Maniacal laughter is optional.

Besides using it for UMD, an ok charisma may be helpful for save DCs for spells from cha based casters. Or select no save spells from those classes since you can get plenty of wis/int based spells from other classes.

[The-Mage-King]

To clarify, it seems that The-Mage-King means to say that if you roll a natural 1, but have a high enough modifier to hit the necessary DC, you don't fail the UMD check and therefore the item does not stop functioning for 24 hours.

Yeah, pretty much this. :smallredface:

And since the conversation had turned to wands... :smalltongue:



Figured I'd clarify since my initial reaction was to tell him he was being wrong and stubborn. :smalltongue:

D:

;_;

[Yuki Akuma]

To clarify, it seems that The-Mage-King means to say that if you roll a natural 1, but have a high enough modifier to hit the necessary DC, you don't fail the UMD check and therefore the item does not stop functioning for 24 hours.

Figured I'd clarify since my initial reaction was to tell him he was being wrong and stubborn. :smalltongue:

Oh! That's how it works?

Well, huh. Okay then...

[Emperor Tippy]

Shapechange into a Liltu, they have the Ex ability to auto succeed on any UMD check. If you are playing it epic that shouldn't be a problem for you.

[Morph Bark]

D:

;_;

Said initial reaction was evidently redacted pre-posting, of course. :smalltongue:

I still wuv joo bro

[Doomboy911]

Well my thanks I have to ask do staffs recharge?

[Yuki Akuma]

Staves do not recharge. They're like wands.

I guess you might be able to convince your DM to let you 'recharge' them by paying the cost for the charges you're 'recharging', maybe?

[Slipperychicken]

Well my thanks I have to ask do staffs recharge?

50 charges lasts a long time. Probably longer than the campaign, and definitely long enough for you to get the cash to resupply on consumables.

[Doomboy911]

Yeah but I eat through spells like they're candy near a chubby gal. Seriously one of my strategies consist of 20 scrolls going off in three rounds. Wasted two spells to make one monster. Ridiculous yes but these strategies may blow some of yours out of the water.

[Doomboy911]

Last question unless one springs up I can't use metamagic feats or metamagic rods on scrolls or stavves?

[ericgrau]

Lemme rephrase that for him. 50 charges is a loooong time. So far my staffs have outlasted entire campaigns. Let me put it this way: I go about 25 game sessions a year with about a fight or two each. I might cast a spell from a staff or I might do something else. So I might use a staff 1 or 2 times each. That's 25-50 charges per year of real time. And at epic levels you might get enough gold to buy a staff every 1-2 sessions. Buy more staffs if the game goes really long; you can afford it. Come to think of it, I picked up wands of extended see invisibility to have it up almost 24 hours and I burnt charges even on days where we were merely travelling just in case we got ambushed. So I went through charges like water but the cost was no big deal at epic levels.

As to the second question, staffs may include metamagic and there are plenty of examples of such staffs. Increase the spell level by the appropriate amount when figuring out costs and you're good to go.

[Doomboy911]

Alright thank you everyone for the help.