Tips for a DM

[Nikolaz72]

Hey there, i've run some weekly saturday games with a couple of people I've met over the internet for four months time now. And I've started to notice some issues that might have some negative effects if it goes on for longer time, now I will keep to the main ones for now anyway.

1. Lets start with the most important, many of my sessions have an overall plot which is decent, and sometimes even good. Problem is, the NPC's and the local plot I introduce ends up bordering more on humour and comedy due to my personality. Now I personally, enjoy a more serious type of game, and having the badass paladin you just introduced having poetry as a hobby might not be a bad idea if done right, however if it aint done right it just ends up being a couple of cheap laughs and you might have wasted a character you spend a couple of hours writing up. So here's the question. How do you keep the plot serious without neccesarily taking away the players fun, I really dont want to sacrifice the enjoyability of my players game but I feel that in the long run the quality of the sessions will suffer if it gets too derpy.

2. One of my players is not enjoying his character. They all started off with relatively blank slates and almost all of them have developed well, but his character was build around a player that has sadly left us, which destroyed what little character his little halfling had. I have tried suggesting that he just create a new persona for the little gal, but he doesnt feel confident in his writing skills. What do I do to handle this situations? Should I suggest rolling up a new character or would that be ignoring an overarching issue?

3. Pacing. Its hard to explain but damnit if it isnt a problem. Sometimes I feel the plot goes too fast, sometimes I feel it goes too slow. Being a rather new DM (This being my first game im properly DMing) I guess its to be expected. And it might actually not be a problem to the players as much as it is a problem to me. But as in (see 1) I fear it might become a problem later on, and would therefor resolve it.

Aaand thats it. Im mostly looking for suggestions and hints, to give some further info we run over Maptools. Dunno if that means anything.

[JonRG]

They all started off with relatively blank slates and almost all of them have developed well, but his character was build around a player that has sadly left us, which destroyed what little character his little halfling had.

What happened to the character that left? Depending on what fate befell them, that could provide a lot of development for the halfling.

[Anarion]

For #1, perhaps decide on personalities for serious characters that are easier to play seriously. This may be a tad less fun for you, but you can insert zany characters elsewhere. For example, the paladin could simply be extremely job-focused and he will come across as very serious. If you insist on something like a poetry hobby, I suggest getting some copies of Shakespeare's tragedies and perhaps some Robert Frost and going from there.

For #2, if you have time, perhaps do a private session with just you and the one player. It could be a 1-shot from that character's past before meeting the party, with a chance for the two of you to work out his issues with an IC setting that feels comfortable for him.

For #3, just observe your players. Are they having fun (and playing the game as opposed to talking about the latest TV show)? If so, don't worry about it. If some of them seem bored, you can take initiative and move things along.

[Nikolaz72]

What happened to the character that left? Depending on what fate befell them, that could provide a lot of development for the halfling.

Well, the player got an apprenticeship and had to leave town. And did so without telling us so I kicked him... I havent had time to talk to him yet and its been 3 weeks, I think he cut contact with the internet as a whole.

The character that left was secretly a vampire, and got kidnapped by a group of vampires. The halflings player decided to rewrite his character then and there and simply act like they had no relationship.


For #1, perhaps decide on personalities for serious characters that are easier to play seriously. This may be a tad less fun for you, but you can insert zany characters elsewhere. For example, the paladin could simply be extremely job-focused and he will come across as very serious. If you insist on something like a poetry hobby, I suggest getting some copies of Shakespeare's tragedies and perhaps some Robert Frost and going from there.

For #2, if you have time, perhaps do a private session with just you and the one player. It could be a 1-shot from that character's past before meeting the party, with a chance for the two of you to work out his issues with an IC setting that feels comfortable for him.

For #3, just observe your players. Are they having fun (and playing the game as opposed to talking about the latest TV show)? If so, don't worry about it. If some of them seem bored, you can take initiative and move things along.

1* I meant keeping my focus. The personalities start serious enough but when the group starts sort of fooling around and we've gotten into the game laughing I have a hard time keeping my mind in the game and something thats a minor character-trait ends up becomming major.
2* Thats a good idea. Think im gonna try that.
3* Ah well. They arent talking about the latest TV show, but theese are the kind of players I feel wouldnt tell me if something 'was' wrong. Which sorta worries me. When I ask them if the game is good, they say is good. When I ask them about pacing, its good. Everything is just 'good' But I know its sort of a fabrication as their reactions to different sessions are 'different' but its like I give them the opportunity to rate 1/10 and they only rate 7/10 with 7 being like, underaverage 8 being average and 10 being good. Its like the damn rating system game-reviewers use and it gets soooo confusing and its hard to see through. SO its not the kind of players you can judge from their reaction to their game as they would probably hide it even if they were bored.

[Taffimai]

1) Explain to your players that you want feedback to improve as a DM. Ask them to sum up the adventure after each session and to describe the NPC's they met. If they don't remember the Paladin's name or exactly why they were killing those gnolls, but they're still chuckling about "there once was a rogue from nantucket", then you might have to ease up on the derpiness.

2) Yes, let him make a new character. When it is ready, send the party to rescue him/her and kill the old character in the process. Or keep him as an NPC, whatever floats your boat.

3) How exactly do you see this as a problem? I'm having trouble seeing it.

[Nikolaz72]

1) Explain to your players that you want feedback to improve as a DM. Ask them to sum up the adventure after each session and to describe the NPC's they met. If they don't remember the Paladin's name or exactly why they were killing those gnolls, but they're still chuckling about "there once was a rogue from nantucket", then you might have to ease up on the derpiness.

2) Yes, let him make a new character. When it is ready, send the party to rescue him/her and kill the old character in the process. Or keep him as an NPC, whatever floats your boat.

3) How exactly do you see this as a problem? I'm having trouble seeing it.

1: Already giving me feedback, although I dont feel they are being honest.
2: That is a possibility I've gone through yes.
3: Well. Sometimes I dont feel the players get enough time to make an important choice. And sometimes I feel as if they get too much. Like say, when you give them 30 minutes to decide whenever to do, or not to jump infront of the town guard taking a bullet for him. I mean the guy aint gonna stand there just waiting but I cant just interrupt the players talking or someone having an accident and having to go afk or something. And sometimes we are nearing the end and I just sort of move the plot -for- them as they tend to stick in one location unless I say they can move on, I've tried explaining that they can move on their own but it rarely happends (only two of the players actually take initiative to move) And if I decide at what speed they go, maybe its too fast for them and they dont get to discuss things between characters ingame before the next plot-point.

[DarkEricDraven]

Hi, I'm the one with the halfling.

-sigh-

It started, she was in love with this half elf. Things weren't too serious at that point, so it was mostly humor. And I was never able to break that once Cerberus Syndrome set in. The others were pretty much normal, but my character was so silly that by continuing to be consistent with what happened in each preceding session it's like if SpongeBob Squarepants was in Game of Thrones.

I'm sure there is a better metaphor, but I've played extremely little role playing games outside of this.

I switched characters from a druid before, but as I was going over my concerns about the druid's slow spell progression, the DM offered me to do a bard, which I did, resulting in the halfling.

Having already changed characters once makes me hesitant to change again. I don't want to be...finicky...I mean, the others might think I'll be on my 12th by the time the game ends. Worse, I've been looking forward to getting a chance to play Dungeons and Dragons for a few years, but all the characters I envisioned were of unusual race. Given the basic races, I have few character ideas.

Well, ideas that aren't comedic relief.

[inexorabletruth]

1. I recommend doing your homework. When my creative juices want flow, I tap into someone else's brain-keg. I know that's a disgusting visual, but I hope it drives the point home. A poetic Paladin can be great with a little research. Look up some great poems in history.

Here, let's see... I'll use my google-fu technique, aaaaand BAM!

Siegfried Sassoon (1886-1967)
"How to Die"

Dark clouds are smouldering into red
While down the craters morning burns.
The dying soldier shifts his head
To watch the glory that returns;
He lifts his fingers toward the skies
Where holy brightness breaks in flame;
Radiance reflected in his eyes,
And on his lips a whispered name.

You'd think, to hear some people talk,
That lads go West with sobs and curses,
And sullen faces white as chalk,
Hankering for wreaths and tombs and hearses.
But they've been taught the way to do it
Like Christian soldiers; not with haste
And shuddering groans; but passing through it
With due regard for decent taste.

There's a tragic war poem for your Pally! Replace Christian with the appropriate theology for your plot, and suddenly, it's IC.

Here's the link I got it from:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1914warpoets.html

2. If a player doesn't enjoy their character, then you've got some options. First talk to him and find out what he doesn't like about the character. If it's "everything" then it's time to write the character out and start over. The point of any game is to have fun. If he's not having fun with the character then the character isn't worth playing. But if it's only one aspect of the character... say build mechanics, then that's fixable. Tell him to get in here on the Playground and get some build advice so he can retrain at the next level. If it's fluff, then really that's his issue. He needs to get creative. D&D is nothing without a willingness to be imaginative. Get him to talk about his character. Take him through the steps of method acting, so he can develop and in depth back story and character motivation. There is a "why" for everything a character has done, is doing, or will do if you dig deep enough. To find out the why, start with the big 7.
Who:
were his characters parents/friends/childhood romances/bullies/rivals

What:
caused him to leave all that behind to become an adventurer
set his character apart from all the other halflings
did he do before he became an adventurer

When:
did he chose his career path (pc class)

Where:
is his character's hometown
would his character like to go before it dies

Then you have all the Why's that are connected with the first 6.

3. Pacing is what it is in D&D. I don't think that's a problem. As a DM, you have to control the pacing so that boring things move along quickly so that you can get to the exciting stuff. That's why a 2 week march across a barren wasteland only takes as long as it does to say, "You head west. It's a grueling 2 week march across a barren wasteland," yet the 5 minute battle (if that) with the mini-boss can take a whole 4 hour session. If that's what's going on, then you're doing fine, amigo. :smallsmile:

[Nikolaz72]

Thanks for the feedback, as for Eric we've come to the decision that we will create a new character. Im gonna be a bit more open to non-basic races aslong as it aint just for comedic relief <_<.

[Taffimai]

Well. Sometimes I dont feel the players get enough time to make an important choice. And sometimes I feel as if they get too much. Like say, when you give them 30 minutes to decide whenever to do, or not to jump infront of the town guard taking a bullet for him. I mean the guy aint gonna stand there just waiting but I cant just interrupt the players talking or someone having an accident and having to go afk or something. And sometimes we are nearing the end and I just sort of move the plot -for- them as they tend to stick in one location unless I say they can move on, I've tried explaining that they can move on their own but it rarely happends (only two of the players actually take initiative to move) And if I decide at what speed they go, maybe its too fast for them and they dont get to discuss things between characters ingame before the next plot-point.

This will get better as you get a better feel for the players and can predict how they will play. To a certain extent, it is unavoidable. I usually have a sidequest or random encounter that I can cut out if I notice that we're running out of time, and something similar to throw in if they surprise me and get past some part of the plot much faster than I expected (with a spell / ability I had forgotten to factor in, for example. It happens).

So long as your players are understanding about "out of time" meaning things have to move and you're the one to do it, there is no problem. If they feel that every session ends with a forcibly railroaded solution, work out a way to measure their actions all the way from the beginning. I had a DM once who had an hourglass and every player got exactly one turn to decide their actions. I didn't have any problem with it, but I know some of the other players did.

It is actually quite normal for some people to be the "movers" and others to hang back and follow the group. Personalities don't change too easily, so don't fret over it.


Hi, I'm the one with the halfling.
-snip-
Having already changed characters once makes me hesitant to change again. I don't want to be...finicky...I mean, the others might think I'll be on my 12th by the time the game ends. Worse, I've been looking forward to getting a chance to play Dungeons and Dragons for a few years, but all the characters I envisioned were of unusual race. Given the basic races, I have few character ideas.

Well, ideas that aren't comedic relief.

First off, there is nothing wrong with a comic relief character. Elan and Belkar are quite useful to their party. It's only a problem if the other people at the table get annoyed by it.

Secondly, think about what attracts you in these unusual races. Is it the fact of standing out that attracts you? Suppose you had an idea for a drow, could it work with the stats for a normal elf and the aesthetics / NPC responses for a dark elf? Is it the more elaborate fluff that helps you be more creative yourself? Are you attracted to creatures with impressive stats?

Could you give some examples for character concepts that do appeal to you?

[DarkEricDraven]

Secondly, think about what attracts you in these unusual races. Is it the fact of standing out that attracts you? Suppose you had an idea for a drow, could it work with the stats for a normal elf and the aesthetics / NPC responses for a dark elf? Is it the more elaborate fluff that helps you be more creative yourself? Are you attracted to creatures with impressive stats?

Could you give some examples for character concepts that do appeal to you?

I seem drawn to weaker races. They look cool to me. If there were a Zelda RPG, I would beg to play a Deku Scrub. Last year, or maybe the year before, I thought up the adventures of a Kobold who sets off to adventure so he can provide for his...hive? Colony? It's been forever since I read that ecology section on Kobolds in Dragon Magazine...Come to think of it, that ecology thing was awesome! I wish I could afford newer issues of Dragon Magazine.

[Taffimai]

Well, it was a good try then with the hobbit halfling :)

It is entirely up to the DM of course whether or not to allow adventuring monster races. If you can't work something out, consider giving your character a flaw (they're described in Unearthed Arcana) and play that you come from an entire subrace/tribe that are all "weaker". Then travel to rise above your limitations.

[Orsayan]

On-and-off DM for a decade, and here are some of my thoughts:


1. Lets start with the most important, many of my sessions have an overall plot which is decent, and sometimes even good. Problem is, the NPC's and the local plot I introduce ends up bordering more on humour and comedy due to my personality. Now I personally, enjoy a more serious type of game, and having the badass paladin you just introduced having poetry as a hobby might not be a bad idea if done right, however if it aint done right it just ends up being a couple of cheap laughs and you might have wasted a character you spend a couple of hours writing up. So here's the question. How do you keep the plot serious without neccesarily taking away the players fun, I really dont want to sacrifice the enjoyability of my players game but I feel that in the long run the quality of the sessions will suffer if it gets too derpy.

Being a DM is about confidence, confidence in story-telling and acting. If you introduce a menacing dragon that strike awe in the PCs, you cannot break character because you feel this is cheesy or too dramatic (or whatever, over-the-top-drama is my own main problem). If the LE dragon lands by the PCs it should be a big deal for them but if you lack confidence, the PCs will feel it, and dont take it so seriously.

If the badass paladin has poetry as a hobby put on your best pokerface and describe how he sits at dusk, staring at the moon and writing sonnets. He might also have a mandolin or something (which he's terrible at playing). If the PCs start to laugh and mock the paladin, he (you, really) has to act as the poetry is a big deal. Maybe the paladin is deeply hurt, maybe he shrugs it off, maybe he feels offended. Whatever he feels, you have to act out to the PCs. If you join the laugh and help make the paladin a clown it really, and if thats a problem for you, just mean you need to boost your confidence level.


2. One of my players is not enjoying his character. They all started off with relatively blank slates and almost all of them have developed well, but his character was build around a player that has sadly left us, which destroyed what little character his little halfling had. I have tried suggesting that he just create a new persona for the little gal, but he doesnt feel confident in his writing skills. What do I do to handle this situations? Should I suggest rolling up a new character or would that be ignoring an overarching issue?

This can be a plot-device for that player. You dont go into details, but you can propably weave into the campaign on how the PC develops emotionally in-game. The fact that the player actually wants to stay true to his original character is a good thing in my book.


3. Pacing. Its hard to explain but damnit if it isnt a problem. Sometimes I feel the plot goes too fast, sometimes I feel it goes too slow. Being a rather new DM (This being my first game im properly DMing) I guess its to be expected. And it might actually not be a problem to the players as much as it is a problem to me. But as in (see 1) I fear it might become a problem later on, and would therefor resolve it.

Feel what the PCs care about. If they seem happy with the pacing you shouldnt really worry about this. The fact is that they controll the pace as much as you do, and if they want to rush some things or take it slow on others, it depends of their own sense of immersion in the game.

[Phaederkiel]

1. Lets start with the most important, many of my sessions have an overall plot which is decent, and sometimes even good. Problem is, the NPC's and the local plot I introduce ends up bordering more on humour and comedy due to my personality. Now I personally, enjoy a more serious type of game, and having the badass paladin you just introduced having poetry as a hobby might not be a bad idea if done right, however if it aint done right it just ends up being a couple of cheap laughs and you might have wasted a character you spend a couple of hours writing up. So here's the question. How do you keep the plot serious without neccesarily taking away the players fun, I really dont want to sacrifice the enjoyability of my players game but I feel that in the long run the quality of the sessions will suffer if it gets too derpy.


hmmm. I do a lot of theatre (as actor / director / cleaning personal...), so i will probably start talking stage lingo (or rather, bad translations of german stage lingo). And will talk a lot, some of it off topic. you have been warned.

The problem here is perfectly summed up in the word cheap. Cheap means you compromise, you sell a character for it. This should not be done.

This is (most of the time) one Branch of the big error-tree of "erasing".
To erase means, that you are afraid to go through with an idea, or that you do not care enough about it to go through with it. For example, consider the following dialogue:

Bob: lets watch a movie.
Carl: yes, lets do that
Bob: no, i do not want to anymore.

here, the audience will probably laugh (cause its unexpected, and a awful situation for carl), but they will not be ever again interested in any sugestions bob makes. after all, he does not mean them. Now, if Bob is Hamlet and likes to play silly buggers with Carl / Polonius, there is a reason in the fast denial. If not, the audience will soon know that nothing Bob ever says is important. first time gets a laugh, second time forces one, third time force a yawn.

This also happens if you fail to go through with your zanyness. If it is not really part of the character of the NPC, if you switch it on and off, if it is only an accessoire, it is of no importance and doesnt get respect. If it is really part of the character, you will find that it always has an aspect of danger, that it demands respect from your players.

In a campaign I dm (red hand of doom), I had a lich-druid, which is given by the module as a collector of cat devotionalia. I further embellished him, gave him a vault full with really low quality (yet high prize) artworks, golden waving-cats, etc. They were in high spirits, then they met the man himself. I played him bat-dung-crazy. The stark contrast between the humourous tone i build up beforehand and the dangerous behaviour of the NPC strenghtened the tension. Then He asked them to find his lost phylactery. "what does it look like?" they asked. I showed them a hello-kitty. It added to the dread.

ok, that was a long example. äh... what i wanted to say is this:

"a good book tells us the truth about its protagonist. A bad book tells us the truth about its author."

Sounds snappier. Well, chesterton said it. Take the jokes to the level where they tell about your NPCs. If you don't, they will tell about your faults as a dm.

[Nikolaz72]

Thanks, again. For the feedback. I will be having an extra-session tonight for Erics new character.

Also I'll be thinking about the suggestions about NPC's.

[DarkEricDraven]

Ah, he's letting me play a Kobold! How wonderful! At first, I was just so unprepared, so I flailed around a little trying to find something to make the Halfling work. But a Kobold I've planned on for years! I feel like I did before we first started playing. I'm very excited!

[Taffimai]

Have fun! :smallsmile:

[rmg22893]

I switched characters from a druid before, but as I was going over my concerns about the druid's slow spell progression, the DM offered me to do a bard, which I did, resulting in the halfling.

Slow spell progression...? :smallconfused:

[DarkEricDraven]

Slow spell progression...? :smallconfused:

Or something like that. Basically, I didn't know Druids didn't get spells every level like Wizards. I didn't abandon him then and there because of it, but Nik offered me the halfling so I said "what the hell".


Have fun! :smallsmile:

Thanks, I will! :smallsmile:

[inexorabletruth]

:smallconfused:
Druids get access to more spells per level than Wizards do, and they get just as many spells per day as Wizards do.

I'm confused. This is D&D 3.5 rules, right? Is your campaign using a house rule or home-brewed druid variant or something to gimp what may be the most powerful class in the game?

[DarkEricDraven]

:smallconfused:
Druids get access to more spells per level than Wizards do, and they get just as many spells per day as Wizards do.

I'm confused. This is D&D 3.5 rules, right? Is your campaign using a house rule or home-brewed druid variant or something to gimp what may be the most powerful class in the game?


So am I. I forget the details, but I'll ask Nik tomorrow.

[Greyfeld85]

3: Well. Sometimes I dont feel the players get enough time to make an important choice. And sometimes I feel as if they get too much. Like say, when you give them 30 minutes to decide whenever to do, or not to jump infront of the town guard taking a bullet for him. I mean the guy aint gonna stand there just waiting but I cant just interrupt the players talking or someone having an accident and having to go afk or something. And sometimes we are nearing the end and I just sort of move the plot -for- them as they tend to stick in one location unless I say they can move on, I've tried explaining that they can move on their own but it rarely happends (only two of the players actually take initiative to move) And if I decide at what speed they go, maybe its too fast for them and they dont get to discuss things between characters ingame before the next plot-point.

For the first bolded section... yes you can. Sometimes you need to give your players time to talk things out. Other times, you need to light a fire under them and give them the feeling that they don't have time to just sit around and talk about it. Even though OOC discussion doesn't actually move time forward IC, sometimes you just have to pretend it does. OOC discussion is representative of the time the characters take to think things through before acting on them. If they see a sniper lining up a shot on a city guard, giving them a half hour to decide how to deal with the situation undermines the mood and tension you may be shooting for... in which case, you need to drop a massive hint on their heads that if they don't hurry up and make a decision, the guard's going to get shot. And if 10 seconds go by and they're still arguing, *BAM*, the guard dies.

As far as the second bolded section goes, some players just aren't leaders. And honestly, that's a good thing. Worse than passive players is having a group full of people who all want to lead the group. Of course, we don't know the reason for their playstyle, whether it's because they're shy/nervous/anxious about speaking up, or whether they really prefer just to let somebody else make all the decisions. If you've done all you can to try to pull them out of their shell and they're still playing passively, then this may be a group that you need to railroad a bit more. And as negative a connotation as "railroading" is, some groups just play better when they're being prodded along a set path. And that's fine, as long as everybody is enjoying themselves.