Spontaneous Healer

[Morithias]

Okay some quick backstory.

My players do not often play divine spellcasters, very rarely do we have a diviner in the party, so often when I want to include a DMPC or a plot critical NPC I make them a Healer from the miniature's handbook. The healer is useful to have around, but unlike the cleric is not so powerful that it risks overshadowing the PC's.

However, the busywork of managing a spell caster (Which I'm not good at to begin with) in addition to Dming creates some extra busywork I'm not entirely fond of.

So here is my question.

How much would it increase the Healer's power level if the healer was a spontaneous caster like the Dread Necromancer instead of a caster that has to prepare spells?

My reasoning is this change would enable me to not have to keep track of so much paperwork, and it would give a mechanical reason for why she always seems to have the right spell prepared like the anti-poison spells before we face the giant spiders.

Just looking for a second opinion before I make the change. Being a munchkin I've quickly learned not to trust my own opinions too quickly as I have a tendency to power game.

Thank you for all your aid!

[watchwood]

Look up the Favoured Soul class. It's a spontaneous divine caster that's probably along the lines of what you want.

[Need_A_Life]

There's a feat for spontaneous healing in Complete Divine. That could cut down on most of the paperwork, since most post-combat healing tends to be of the Cure [X] Wounds variety.

Played a fun archivist who spontaneously cured, inflicted and summon nature's allyed thanks to those three feats :smallsmile:

[Yuki Akuma]

Honestly, changing the Healer to be like a Warmage (spontaneous casting, knows all spells) would be a good boost to its power level.

But as its power level is so horrible, it'd be a good fix.

[Morithias]

Honestly, changing the Healer to be like a Warmage (spontaneous casting, knows all spells) would be a good boost to its power level.

But as its power level is so horrible, it'd be a good fix.

So it won't completely make her overpowered if I let the healer do that then? Thanks for answering my question.

I guess I will do it. Thanks for all your suggestions everyone!

Edit: Also one more thing... TITAN in the playground? How bloody long have you been posting here!?

[Chronos]

Most players already think that the Healer works that way-- It's a pretty logical conclusion from showing up in the same book as the Warmage and having such a ridiculously short and one-dimensional class spell list. It obviously makes them suck less, but they still suck. Of course, "suck" is a feature, not a bug, for your purposes, so go right ahead and make that change.

[sonofzeal]

So it won't completely make her overpowered if I let the healer do that then? Thanks for answering my question.

I guess I will do it. Thanks for all your suggestions everyone!
I've played a Healer. We used spontaneous casting. It was fine. The spell list is so homogenous, there's really very little that could go wrong.



Also, I'm currently playing an Evangelist (DM #311). They're based on clerics, but have Sorcerer spells-per-day and add Domains to their Spells Known. You lose out on Turning just like the Healer and Favoured Soul, but you get Spontaneous casting off a large number of spells based on what Domains you choose. It's almost a "build your own specialized Caster"; an Evangelist of Pelor is going to have a radically different spell list than an Evangelist of Boccob, or Kord, or Nerull. And I kind of like that.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There's also a Spontaneous Divine Caster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant. Basically, it's a cleric who spontaneously casts from a spell list rather than prepares. He automatically knows his domain spells, plus a few others.

Combo this with, for example, Sovereign Speaker, who nets a new domain every level...

[Morithias]

There's also a Spontaneous Divine Caster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant. Basically, it's a cleric who spontaneously casts from a spell list rather than prepares. He automatically knows his domain spells, plus a few others.

Combo this with, for example, Sovereign Speaker, who nets a new domain every level...

Sovereign Speaker? Color me interested...

[Zaq]

Spontaneous casting will make low-op Healers better, but at mid-op and above, that costs them the best method they have of expanding their horizons—namely, sanctified spells, which are available to all prepped casters (and generally not to spontaneous casters without a lot of hoop-jumping). Throw in a rule that says they can also spontaneously cast sanctified spells (like Clerics already can) and you've got a deal.

[Morithias]

Spontaneous casting will make low-op Healers better, but at mid-op and above, that costs them the best method they have of expanding their horizons—namely, sanctified spells, which are available to all prepped casters (and generally not to spontaneous casters without a lot of hoop-jumping). Throw in a rule that says they can also spontaneously cast sanctified spells (like Clerics already can) and you've got a deal.

Well to be fair, it wouldn't make much sense for most of my healers to be casting sanctified spells. 90% of them end up betraying the party or turning evil. (I'm not kidding I once had a level 20 Healer with a green ancient dragon as a final boss).

I'll consider it. Thank you for your suggestion.

[gorfnab]

Sovereign Speaker? Color me interested...
Sovereign Speaker is in Faiths of Eberron. Also combos nicely with Divine Crusader from Complete Divine.

[Morithias]

Sovereign Speaker is in Faiths of Eberron. Also combos nicely with Divine Crusader from Complete Divine.

I'm looking at it, and it's tempting. I've already stated out the Demon King's first form, but this combo would give her a ton of domain spells that I can easily fluff as her Demonic powers rather than any sort of "Divine" ability.

Then again I suppose she's never going to reach level 20 in healer. The main thing I'm worried is I'm kinda stuck in a hard place. I want the NPC to be powerful enough to be a threat of TPK if she becomes the Demon Queen (Yes the Healer in my latest campaign is also potentially the final boss), but at the same time I don't want her overshadowing the PC's when she's not corrupted.

So I want her to be both powerful, and weak. Kinda a weird paradox eh?

[Zaq]

Well to be fair, it wouldn't make much sense for most of my healers to be casting sanctified spells. 90% of them end up betraying the party or turning evil. (I'm not kidding I once had a level 20 Healer with a green ancient dragon as a final boss).

I'll consider it. Thank you for your suggestion.

Well, RAW, Healers have to be capital-G Good, so by-the-book Healers can all use sanctified spells. I'm all for relaxing 95% of the alignment restrictions out there, but I generally assume RAW unless stated otherwise, so there's that.

[Yuki Akuma]

Edit: Also one more thing... TITAN in the playground? How bloody long have you been posting here!?

Since 2004. And that's all I'll say on the matter.

[Socratov]

ehm, so the healer hmmm...

Well, my solution would be let him have a bard. They have access to healing spells, cast spontaneously, can do other things besides healing, and with sublime chord can do a lot more, like party face, buffer, skillmonkey, etc...

[Morithias]

ehm, so the healer hmmm...

Well, my solution would be let him have a bard. They have access to healing spells, cast spontaneously, can do other things besides healing, and with sublime chord can do a lot more, like party face, buffer, skillmonkey, etc...

Also a good idea! You all have such good suggestions! Thank you for your aid everyone!

One thing you got to love about the playground. You'll ask them to show you how to forge you a butter knife and they'll show you how to forge a katana...and a longsword...and a greathammer...and a giant fork that can instantly slay any food-based enemies, even though it's nothing close to the original topic.

People sure are helpful! :D (no I'm not being sarcastic I really do appreciate all the help)

[etrpgb]

Warmage X/10 Rainbow Servant.

Solved. :D Never to worry anymore about what spell preparing, each and every cleric spell is there for you to cast spontaneously.

(You can use also Dread Necromancer or the Beguiler instead of the Warmage.)


If such power gaming is not allowed (or the required level is too high) ... what about a Shugenja? I think a Order of the Ineffable Mystery Earth Shugenja can do well.

[Ranting Fool]

Look up the Favoured Soul class. It's a spontaneous divine caster that's probably along the lines of what you want.

Ditto, while Favoured souls and Sorcerers aren't (for the most part) as powerful as thier Wizard/Cleric counterparts they are so much nicer to use for NPC's that go along with a party, partly because they are quicker to build, partly because they tend not to overshadow the PC's which makes them cranky, and partly for easy record keeping and as a DM you've got to keep track of a butt load of stuff already.

Also I'm sure there is a feat somewhere that lets you cast healing spells like a cleric does.

[Yuki Akuma]

Also I'm sure there is a feat somewhere that lets you cast healing spells like a cleric does.

Spontaneous Healer, Complete Divine. Requires 4 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and any nonevil alignment.

[Socratov]

Also a good idea! You all have such good suggestions! Thank you for your aid everyone!

One thing you got to love about the playground. You'll ask them to show you how to forge you a butter knife and they'll show you how to forge a katana...and a longsword...and a greathammer...and a giant fork that can instantly slay any food-based enemies, even though it's nothing close to the original topic.

People sure are helpful! :D (no I'm not being sarcastic I really do appreciate all the help)

If you are going the bard route, don't forget the Healing Hymn ACF from Complete divine...

[Axier]

I am a big fan of Shugenja, especially if you can get your hands on the d20 Rokugan campaign setting, which has a more extensive spell list for shugenja.

As for the Healer class, I have enjoied it a lot personally. Yea, its just about worthless at everything but healing, and is realy squishy, but it is kinda fun.

[Slipperychicken]

weird paradox eh?

What if she's powerful, but is laying low with the party until she unlocks her demon-queen potential? Maybe she doesn't want her enemies (potentially the party?) realizing her strength, so she sticks to healing. If she's high-level, BeguilerX/Rainbow Servant 10 casts all Cleric and Beguiler spells spontaneously.

[Psyren]

The problem with making Healer spontaneous is that you kill its biggest advantage - Sanctified Magic. So I would rule in a way for them to keep those.

EDIT: Wait, is your player trying to do an evil healer? Because Hedge Witch, Life Oracle, and Chirurgeon Alchemist can all fill that role.

(And Soulthief Vitalist, if you don't mind psionics.)

[Morithias]

What if she's powerful, but is laying low with the party until she unlocks her demon-queen potential? Maybe she doesn't want her enemies (potentially the party?) realizing her strength, so she sticks to healing. If she's high-level, BeguilerX/Rainbow Servant 10 casts all Cleric and Beguiler spells spontaneously.

Well it's more that she doesn't WANT to become the Demon Queen. It's just more if she DOES aka the party REALLY screws up and lets her become it, she's going to turn on them (as becoming the demon queen is like taint and corrupts your mind).

It's hard to explain, check the earlier thread "Demon King (special monster)" for a better explanation.

Of course all these ideas will be used later at some point, even outside the Demon King campaign. I love playing clerics and other divine spellcasters, so these ideas are awesome! Hooray for munchkin! lol

I'll analyze all your ideas and do what one seems to be the best idea. After all your ideas my original idea seems rather tame in comparison!

Rainbow servant...why do I imagine them in that "rainbow batman" costume from that one silver age story? Do they actually dress like that? *runs to check it out*


The problem with making Healer spontaneous is that you kill its biggest advantage - Sanctified Magic. So I would rule in a way for them to keep those.

EDIT: Wait, is your player trying to do an evil healer? Because Hedge Witch, Life Oracle, and Chirurgeon Alchemist can all fill that role.

(And Soulthief Vitalist, if you don't mind psionics.)

It's not that she's an EVIL healer. It's that she's inflicted with a curse that will slowly turn her into a Demon that is capable of commanding the entire abyss and if she falls to total evil she'll conquer the multiverse. The whole campaign revolves around trying to "cure" her, because since she's the PC's childhood friend they can't just bring themselves to kill her.

So she starts out good, but if she gets stressed, hurt, or is tainted via other sources (like sleeping in an unholy temple), she slowly gets corrupted, while other people would just be creeped out.

[Andorax]

A bit more about the Evangelist/Sovereign Speaker thing:

I have one of those in my current (3rd level atm) Eberron campaign...or more accurately, someone building towards it.

Evangelist (Dragon 311) is a spontanious cleric variant with a very limited number of spells known they can choose, and (initially) 2 domains they can select, and count the domain lists as spells known.

Every 5th level, they get an additional domain.


Sovereign Speaker is a prestige class from Eberron with fairly easy entry requirements. The fluff is a cleric who worships the whole of the 9-member Sovereign Host pantheon equally. The class is a 9-level PrC with 7/9 casting progression...that gets a bonus domain every level.

Smash it together, and an Evangelist 5/Sovereign Speaker 9 has a total of 12 domains, all according domain powers, and the ability to spontaniously cast from all 12 domain lists and a handful of other chosen spells (with a number of spell slots available equal to that of a 12th level Sorc).

For extra fun, the player who's doing this has also studied over the Dragon Magazine articles for Sinful and Saintly domains (Dragon 323 and 355), both of which conveniently include references to which Eberron deities they apply to.

[sonofzeal]

A bit more about the Evangelist/Sovereign Speaker thing:

I have one of those in my current (3rd level atm) Eberron campaign...or more accurately, someone building towards it.

Evangelist (Dragon 311) is a spontanious cleric variant with a very limited number of spells known they can choose, and (initially) 2 domains they can select, and count the domain lists as spells known.

Every 5th level, they get an additional domain.


Sovereign Speaker is a prestige class from Eberron with fairly easy entry requirements. The fluff is a cleric who worships the whole of the 9-member Sovereign Host pantheon equally. The class is a 9-level PrC with 7/9 casting progression...that gets a bonus domain every level.

Smash it together, and an Evangelist 5/Sovereign Speaker 9 has a total of 12 domains, all according domain powers, and the ability to spontaniously cast from all 12 domain lists and a handful of other chosen spells (with a number of spell slots available equal to that of a 12th level Sorc).

For extra fun, the player who's doing this has also studied over the Dragon Magazine articles for Sinful and Saintly domains (Dragon 323 and 355), both of which conveniently include references to which Eberron deities they apply to.
You really need pantheon rules to be in play before it becomes useful, though. And Evangelist by itself is fine. Honestly, I think they do a better job than Cleric as a priestly class, since deity choice, and hence domains available, are going to massively change your gameplay experience. The only problem is they start pretty slow; I'd give an extra domain at lvl 1 or 3.

[ericgrau]

To make sure he realistically always has the right remove X spell for the fight, give him 100 scrolls. Especially for level 1-2 spells, less of the level 2-3 spells due to cost. But they're cheap enough that it's reasonable to carry a ton and be ready for everything.

[Andorax]

You really need pantheon rules to be in play before it becomes useful, though. And Evangelist by itself is fine. Honestly, I think they do a better job than Cleric as a priestly class, since deity choice, and hence domains available, are going to massively change your gameplay experience. The only problem is they start pretty slow; I'd give an extra domain at lvl 1 or 3.

It's quite usable without pantheon rules if you get ahold of some of the other alternate sources (such as the aforementioned Deadly and Saintly Domain articles)...and if you go the Sovereign Speaker route (normal Evangelists only wind up with 6 domains at 20th), you're automatically doing the pantheon thing...you have to be.

Honestly, I do like the class even just as-is, for much the same reason. They really do make choice of deity significant in a way that the Cleric class comes up short with. Kinda reminds me of the old 2E Specialty Priest rules.




And Ericgrau, I regularly encourage clerics to take Scribe Scroll for that same reason.