Fabricate Optimization

[imneuromancer]

OK, so is there a Fabricate (5th level Wizard spell) optimization link? I couldn't find anything on the Googles, so I thought I would ask the Playground.

The low-hanging fruit here is casting a wall of iron and then Fabricating that "free" iron into something that is worth money, like weapons.

So what skills or feats or spells could I use to optimize this? I was thinking of taking Leadership just to get a bunch of dwarven smiths to help me with weapon creation, but there HAS to be a better way to optimize this awesome spell.

[Chronos]

The big value of a spell like Fabricate is in its versatility. You know those times on an adventure when you say "Oh, I wish I had a <item> with me, that would make things so much easier right now"? Well, now you do have that item. Planning out specific options in advance defeats the purpose.

[Duke of URL]

If you've got the requisite Craft skills, then yes, you can pump out arms and armor in record time. At caster level 12, you'd pay 50 gp to gain 75 cubic feet of iron via wall of iron. A single fabricate spell would allow you to craft up to 12 cubic feet at a time, but you're going to be working with less, as the spell only allows you to make one item ("You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material") -- but that single item could be plate armor or a huge greatsword, and that would literally take seconds to make.

Also, since the craft rules require the masterwork component of crafted items to be purchased and crafted separately, sticking solely to the RAW, it would be hard to justify being able to make those items masterwork, even if you could hit the required DC.

[Piggy Knowles]

The current Iron Chef competition has an entry that uses Fabricate to quickly create alchemical items and traps, and there's a lot of versatility to be had with that.

Another thing to consider is that you don't need things like Wall of Iron to make Fabricate worthwhile (although it doesn't hurt). Think of all the scrap you get after an encounter - useless swords, axes and armor all turn into bits of leather, metal and wood for Fabricate. Corpses yield bone. Stone and earth can be found in the walls or at your feet.

But as a general rule, max out your craft skill in poisonmaking, alchemy and trapmaking, and use Fabricate for those three, plus for making that item you never know you need until you need it (battering rams and siege engines, cages and manacles, wagons, etc).

[Kansaschaser]

If you've got the requisite Craft skills, then yes, you can pump out arms and armor in record time. At caster level 12, you'd pay 50 gp to gain 75 cubic feet of iron via wall of iron. A single fabricate spell would allow you to craft up to 12 cubic feet at a time, but you're going to be working with less, as the spell only allows you to make one item ("You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material") -- but that single item could be plate armor or a huge greatsword, and that would literally take seconds to make.

Also, since the craft rules require the masterwork component of crafted items to be purchased and crafted separately, sticking solely to the RAW, it would be hard to justify being able to make those items masterwork, even if you could hit the required DC.

I've never seen any mention that the Fabricate spell can only create one item per casting. In fact, the spell mentions the plural version of "item" and "article". I believe you can create several items with one casting of the spell. As long as you have the raw material available, you should be able to make more than one per casting.

[Keld Denar]

Craft can be done untrained, and you can take 10. If you are a wizard, you will probably be able to get most of the way there with just Int + aid rolls for just about anything at or below DC 20. Beating the DC by a certain amount doesn't matter, since that only affects time, which is always 6 seconds with Fabricate. You just have to hit the DC.

If you are really concerned, get a big bonus from a spell. Improvisation and Divine Insight both add decent bonuses if you can aquire those spells via Spellstoring, and there is the Guidance of the Avatar spell on the WotC website.

[Johel]

Craft can be done untrained, and you can take 10. If you are a wizard, you will probably be able to get most of the way there with just Int + aid rolls for just about anything at or below DC 20. Beating the DC by a certain amount doesn't matter, since that only affects time, which is always 6 seconds with Fabricate. You just have to hit the DC.

If you are really concerned, get a big bonus from a spell. Improvisation and Divine Insight both add decent bonuses if you can aquire those spells via Spellstoring, and there is the Guidance of the Avatar spell on the WotC website.

Don't know for the Aid roll.
But yeah, anything of DC 15 would be an automatic success.
This includes chainmail and breastplate armors, as well as crossbows.
So in theory, you could just equip a small army in a few days by snapping your fingers.

You could also go tippyverse style and create a Magical Trap of Fabricate.
The specifics would have to be discussed with the DM.
But basically, this would be a litteral nanofactory, where raw metal would be transform into final product in a matter of minutes, all day long.
I guess the King would reward awesomly the man who would reduce by a third the expense of equipment of the army.

[Canarr]

Shouldn't swords and armor be made of steel, not iron? Though I suppose, you could cast Fabricate to turn iron into steel, then another to turn the steel into weapons.

[Andezzar]

Steel is only iron with a certain amount of carbon "impurities". I'm not sure what the carbon concentration in a wall of iron is.

[Canarr]

Without delving too deeply into the chemist side of things: iron must be refined to arrive at steel, and discovering the process took a few hundred years. Iron and steel aren't the same material, and thus I claim that iron cannot be used as raw material for Fabricate to make items that must be made out of steel.

[Keld Denar]

On the other hand, you can cast fabricate to make a bow or a crossbow with mostly wood. There is enough saturated carbon in the air around you (in the form of CO2 and small amounts of CO) that you have enough "raw materials" around you to turn iron into steel. Now, if you wanted to make something like stainless steel (why would you for a sword? SS is more ductile and has lower hardness and yield strength, bad for a sword), you'd need to find sources of chrome and moly, but for simple austenitic carbon steel, no problem.

[Piggy Knowles]

Without delving too deeply into the chemist side of things: iron must be refined to arrive at steel, and discovering the process took a few hundred years. Iron and steel aren't the same material, and thus I claim that iron cannot be used as raw material for Fabricate to make items that must be made out of steel.

Sure... but really, that just means you use Walls of Iron to make iron ingots for sale, and break the economy. As far as actually making practical items goes, you're better off using the steel from leftover weapons.

[Andezzar]

IIRC there were iron weapons before steel weapons. The problem is that the rulebooks give us no guidelines how weapons made from iron will perform.


You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material.How do you craft product that are made of more than one material anyways? A sword should be impossible anyways, as you would need steel or other metal for the blade and wood, leather and string for the hilt. pretty much any finished product is made of more than one material. How is that supposed to work?

@Bows: woohoo, with a 5th level spell you can create a normal bow. Composite bows should already be forbidden. A crossbow usually has significant metal parts (mostly bow and trigger)

[mattie_p]

IIRC there were iron weapons before steel weapons. The problem is that the rulebooks give us no guidelines how weapons made from iron will perform.

Sure they do: Cold Iron (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#ironCold) Iron does not equal cold iron in game terms, but just remove overcoming DR and you should be set. One handed weapons (steel) are usually hardness 10, HP 5, cold iron has same hardness. Should be good to go.

[Alienist]

For some reason WoTC love putting big-ass adamantium doors in their modules.

Also, adamantium full plate is just about the most expensive thing you can craft. Also, it takes about a decade to craft a single suit.

Fabricate + big-ass adamantium doors = undreamed of wealth

Rest of module? Why would I bother?

[Benly]

Without delving too deeply into the chemist side of things: iron must be refined to arrive at steel, and discovering the process took a few hundred years. Iron and steel aren't the same material, and thus I claim that iron cannot be used as raw material for Fabricate to make items that must be made out of steel.

I would say that what you need is the one resource adventurers always have plenty of: corpses. Corpses have bones, and bone char has historically been used as a carbon source in steelmaking - it was never exactly common, but it was certainly known.

[Canarr]

I would say that what you need is the one resource adventurers always have plenty of: corpses. Corpses have bones, and bone char has historically been used as a carbon source in steelmaking - it was never exactly common, but it was certainly known.

Hmmm... I guess I'd probably go the "use looted weapons" route, myself... :smallwink:

[Andezzar]

There will still be the one material problem.

[Benly]

There will still be the one material problem.

Material can be used as a collective noun (i.e. "we don't have enough material to meet our quota" as opposed to "we don't have enough materials to meet our quota".) Reading it that way, it works fine; a steel, wood and leather sword is made of the same material as a steel, wood and leather axe.


Hmmm... I guess I'd probably go the "use looted weapons" route, myself... :smallwink:

Waste not, want not. What, are you going to leave those corpses just lying around? Perfectly good carbon in those things. Nothing says you can't gather up the swords and fabricate them into ingots, too.

[Andezzar]

Material can be used as a collective noun (i.e. "we don't have enough material to meet our quota" as opposed to "we don't have enough materials to meet our quota".) Reading it that way, it works fine; a steel, wood and leather sword is made of the same material as a steel, wood and leather axe.Unfortunately that is not possible. The description explicitly tells us to use a "material of one sort" and making it into a product of "the same material". Saying that wood, steel and leather are the same sort of material is nonsense.