Prestige Classes for my Wizard

[Zerek229]

Hey all, i've only been playing D&D 3.5 for a short while now and i've done a lot of research on building my wizard. My last character died, and seeing how there are about 5 melee in a 7 person group i figured i would try to fill the caster role as we are missing one. I have been really focusing on prestige classes and how i want my level 20 to shape up eventually (we are currently level 8). I was considering maybe a 5Wizard/3Incantatrix/7Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil/5Incantatrix, or a 5Wizard/10Incantatrix/5Archmage. I was wondering if perhaps i could get some input on these, or in fact something i could do to improve my character. My DMs games tend to be much rougher than average i am told, and because of the strength of his encounters I don't really care whether or not I'm cheesing (outside of perhaps planar shepherd), so please don't post on how building an incantatrix any way will ensure my dm will throw the very heavy DMG at my forhead.

[Duke of URL]

If you're not planning on epic levels, then the Icantatrix/Iot7FL combo is a solid one. You might want to consider putting some Master Specialist in there earlier if you can still re-do the lower levels.

If you're going epic, the latter option is better because you can take epic levels in Incantatrix right away.

[Particle_Man]

Between the two I would lean to the 7-fold veil over the archmage.

[Zerek229]

He isn't sure whether or not this will go into epic. This originally began as a one shot campaign that has gone on for quite a few months now. Considering where we are in the game, it's completely possible that we would enter epic levels. I do have other questions as well. Is it worth giving up the 2 in incantatrix for a full IotSV? And i was considering focused specialst, but that comes with a big problem. Entering as an incantatrix means you ban an additional school, meaning that i would have 4 banned schools leaving me most likely with conjuration,transmutation, and abjuration as my three schools. Would this be a really big problem? Like i said, new to wizards, but from what i see conjuration and transmutation seem like the best other two schools to pick, but i'm not sure how the adverse effect of having 4 banned schools would hurt.

[Duke of URL]

Well, you'd have divination, too.

But if you're going the Iot7FV route, those are the schools you want anyway -- you have to go Abjuration, and Conjuration and Transmutation are hands-down the best Wizard schools. You'd be giving up versatility for a lot of raw power.

[Blisstake]

Hold on, how exactly are these melee characters built? Being a wizard by itself is powerful enough, but when you add the incredibly cheesy Incantatrix, there's quite a distinct possibility you could be outperforming all of the other characters put together.

[Zerek229]

What exactly do you mean how are they built? We essentially have 3 fighters, a dervish, and a monk. its 4 melee to be exact. One of the fighters has a bow, and actually deals decent damage. The two fighters are two handed, one has a fullblade and the other a greataxe i believe. The dervish has desert wind and another scimitar in his offhand. The monk has gone monk/rogue, and seems to rarely even hit in a fight due to the way he builds. I originally had a duskblade (i was the second person to make a character, so i didn't forsee this problem) but i was one shot by the most insanely unlucky criticals ever. I figure battlefield control is probably my best option, and the defensive/offensive mix of the two prestiges is undeniable. I didn't want to make the party healbot (due to the fact that i've done it so much that its beyond the meaning of boring). I was just wondering how solid what i was choosing to do was, and whether or not there might be better options for me.

[Blisstake]

No, I'm saying it's an extemely solid choice. To the point where it could possibly marginalize the abilities of your other party members.

I don't know your group, however, and I don't know how exactly you plan on playing, so it could be a complete non-issue. But in the same sense many players worry about submitting a character that's too weak for the rest of the party, having a character who outpaces them all by a bit can also be problematic.

Anyway, beyond the realms of theoretical optimization, I'm pretty sure wizard/incantatrix/initiate is one of the best there is, barring perhaps the focused specialist as mentioned earlier.

[Zerek229]

So your advice would to be not specialize or to specialize? I feel like from the last post it should be blatantly obvious, but i can't seem to tell lol. And if i shouldn't focused specialist, opinion on regular specialist? or domain wizard actually if FS or regular specialist isn't a good idea.

[jaybird]

Domain Wizard, Focused Specialist (Conjuration or Transmutation), and Elf Generalist are the best Wizard ACFs. If you have a choice between Domain and FS, though, take Domain Wizard - you don't lose any schools but still gain an extra slot.

EDIT: take Conjuration Domain. Every single one of the spells in that domain are must-haves at low levels and still amazing at high levels.

[Blisstake]

Well, in most cases, I think focused specialist can replace initiate of the sevenfold veil. Incantatrix is amazing all around, so I wouldn't give that up if you plan on taking it. Taking either is extremely powerful though, so I wouldn't sweat it too much.

I wasn't really trying to give advice on how to build your character, I'm just saying... be careful. Sometimes it's easy to accidentally make a character that's far more powerful than anyone else in the group, which can adversely affect their game experience. That's especially common in a wizard/fighter party, so just try to be aware if your character seems to become too powerful.

[Zerek229]

Ahhh gotcha. Thank you for the advice. Sometimes i focus a little much on optimization, but i've been too weak too many times, and i wanted to make sure that i wasn't the one lagging behind this time.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Honestly, you could easily afford to ditch Incantatrix. It's good, really good, but Wizard 3/Master Specialist 10/Iot7V 7 holds a special place in my heart. It just flows so nicely.


As for other wizard ideas, if you have access to Heroes of Battle, why not go War Weaver? It'll help the monk/rogue and everyone else in the party while being incredibly passive in its own right.

Wizard 3/War Weaver 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/Legacy Champion 8 is pretty solid. Legacy Champion is a bit cheesy applying all its boosts to War Weaver to gain higher level spells into the weave. Other options include just about any wizardry prestige class like master specialist.

[Zerek229]

I'm really looking at trying to be the master of battlefield control along with buffing/debuffing. I really like the defensive capabilities of IotSV, and both offensive/defensive abilities of using metamagics to enhance my battlefield control spells. I'm looking for war weaver, but cannot find the class despite my searches. What book is it in? Along with the other classes mentioned. I'd like to take a look at them. Also, if there are any other recommendations for what i have stated it would be very much appreciated. And for whoever it was that posted for domain casting, i asked my DM and it's not allowed, so i'm likely going focused specialist.

[Harry]

You could play a wizard 5/shadowcraft mage 3/incantatrix 3/7Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/any arcane prc 2 if done right this will give you the ability to cast miracle out of a cantrip metamagic effect full Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil abilities plus 2 levels of your choice

[Harry]

I'm really looking at trying to be the master of battlefield control along with buffing/debuffing. I really like the defensive capabilities of IotSV, and both offensive/defensive abilities of using metamagics to enhance my battlefield control spells. I'm looking for war weaver, but cannot find the class despite my searches. What book is it in? Along with the other classes mentioned. I'd like to take a look at them. Also, if there are any other recommendations for what i have stated it would be very much appreciated. And for whoever it was that posted for domain casting, i asked my DM and it's not allowed, so i'm likely going focused specialist.

Iirc war weaver is from heros of battle here's the handbook http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5881.0

[Zerek229]

Ah thank you very much. This will help me out a lot.

[Zerek229]

In addition to the fact that i will undoubtedly be an incantatrix, for the 3rd level ability, i'll need a very high spellcraft score. I was wondering if there was a list that i could use in order to help with this. Right now i see at level 8 having 11 ranks, 5 int, 3 forskill focus, 2 for knowledge arcana. putting me at 21. Any others recommended? This would really help out a lot. I did some theorycrafting and as far as catering to my style i'm nearly certainly going 5wizard/4incantatrix/7 IotSV/4incantatrix. (i realized earlier that 5/3 wouldnt allow for entry for initiate, as you need 12 ranks in 2 things)

[Harry]

In addition to the fact that i will undoubtedly be an incantatrix, for the 3rd level ability, i'll need a very high spellcraft score. I was wondering if there was a list that i could use in order to help with this. Right now i see at level 8 having 11 ranks, 5 int, 3 forskill focus, 2 for knowledge arcana. putting me at 21. Any others recommended? This would really help out a lot. I did some theorycrafting and as far as catering to my style i'm nearly certainly going 5wizard/4incantatrix/7 IotSV/4incantatrix. (i realized earlier that 5/3 wouldnt allow for entry for initiate, as you need 12 ranks in 2 things)

The incantatrix handbook has a list of ways to raise spellcraft http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12258032

[eggs]

I'd second War Weaver. In a party of incompetent melee characters, it will give them a way to feel big and important while dramatically increasing the effectiveness of your own casting, and it makes for a more coherent low-level build.

Even without jumping through the hoops of TDC's build, something like Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Incantatrix 10 would be able to provide absolutely massive benefits to your party members without eating into your character actions in any way you'd notice.

The biggest power-related difference between the War Weaver build and the Iot7V build is that if the DM tries to challenge the Iot7V build, all the other players will find their characters among the collateral damage.

[Zerek229]

Now because of the major class feature of Incantatrix being at level 3 i was considering doing Wizard5/Incantatrix3/Warweaver5/Initiate 7. Not necessarily in that order, but you know the final build in total. Sadly losing 1 caster level does suck, but it seems worth it. Any opinions on this?

[Tokuhara]

My 2c.

Grey Elf

Elf Domain Wizard 6/Incantrix 10/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3 (BoEF)/Archmage 1

You are the Metamagic GOD. 'Nuff Said

[Yuukale]

would it be wrong to ask in this thread what's better:

wiz 5 / incantatrix 10 / IotSV 5

or

wiz 5 / incantatrix 8 / IotSV 7

?

[Zerek229]

In my opinion Wizard5/Incantatrix8/IotS7 i feel would be stronger. You lose more power in 5 initiate than in 8 incantatrix. Sure you don't get to reduce mm feats by 1, but you get the two best veils and kaleidoscope doom. This is my two cents though. If you have a better reason i'd love to hear it, because i'm trying to really get the best bang for my buck here.

[Aegis013]

In my opinion Wizard5/Incantatrix8/IotS7 i feel would be stronger. You lose more power in 5 initiate than in 8 incantatrix. Sure you don't get to reduce mm feats by 1, but you get the two best veils and kaleidoscope doom. This is my two cents though. If you have a better reason i'd love to hear it, because i'm trying to really get the best bang for my buck here.

It really just depends on how metamagic focused the character is. If you use a lot of metamagic, Incantatrix is going to win out. Otherwise, probably IotS7 is better.

[Yuukale]

yup, also trying to figure this out.

you said you want Battlefield Control (BC), which indeed is awesome. But I find that with incantatrix, any spellcaster gets to become a competent mailman, with some metamagic feats.

Even though we ("we" cuz I'm about to play with a wiz/incant as well) won't get to twin quicken fusion spell shenanigans, a quickened fell twinned empowered spell is sweet enough. And for that matter, metamagic reduction is godlike.

I'm not saying that Incantatrix 10 is better, just saying why I like it.