A warlock and a demilich?

[Harry]

I was looking up Immunity to magic then I found the demilichs magic immunity ability which makes them immune to all magical and supernatural effects it does not how ever say that it is infinite sr it just says its immune so i was thinking what if a demilich fights a epic warlock is there anyway for the warlock to beat the demilich without using items or leadership?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Well, the warlock could beat him to death with his fists...

But I don't think that would work.

I was hoping it was two PCs or villains (or both) who you want a reason to adventure together. Then I could've said it's because: they fight crime. :smallcool:

[Lostbutseeking]

Bonus points if the demilich is called Morte.

[hamishspence]

Baleful Utterance? Works "as the shatter spell" - which is one of the only spells that works (at reduced damage) on demiliches.

[Jeraa]

Demilich (And the other epic monsters with magic immunity) keep their Magic Immunity in 3.5 unchanged. (All of the non-epic creatures with magic immunity had it switched over to unbeatable spell resistance. Epic monsters remain unchanged, as its never mentioned in the update booklet (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a)). As such, the following is still valid in 3.5:


Magic Immunity (Ex)

Demiliches are immune to all magical and supernatural effects, except as follows. A shatter spell affects a demilich as if it were a crystalline creature, but deals half the damage normally indicated. A dispel evil spell deals 3d6 points of damage (Fort save for half damage). Holy smite spells affect demiliches normally.

A Demilich is immune to all spells, spell-like, and supernatural abilities. Except for the listed spells. The least invocation Baleful Utterance works like the shatter spell, so could affect the demilich.

[Socratov]

and a 1st level invocation at that, even quickenable for 2 per turn (which is not possible with EB)

[Urpriest]

Demilichs are 3.0. To update them to 3.5 you need to change their immunity to magic to "infinite sr" as was done with the golems.

Edit: This is true regardless of whether the 3.5 update book specifically addresses it. IIRC the 3.5 update booklet also doesn't address the size of a Hecatonchiere's weapons, but since weapon sizes changed in the transition they need to be addressed.

[Jeraa]

However, Shatter only does 10d6 damage maximum, with a save for half. And demiliches automatically reduce the damage by half. So for each shatter, you are only doing 1/4 to 1/2 of 10d6 damage.


Demilichs are 3.0. To update them to 3.5 you need to change their immunity to magic to "infinite sr" as was done with the golems.

The update booklet make no mention of the demiliches or epic golems spell immunity, so it remains unchanged in 3.5. Only the non-epic monsters with spell immunity were changed.

[hamishspence]

There's update booklets- and I think the SRD used the update booklet for its demilich.

Also- Eldritch Blast can't be quickened? I thought it was a valid option for the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat.

[Lostbutseeking]

Demilichs are 3.0. To update them to 3.5 you need to change their immunity to magic to "infinite sr" as was done with the golems.

I was under the impression that the demilich (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/demilich.htm) was updated for 3.5.

[Urpriest]

The update booklet make no mention of the demiliches or epic golems spell immunity, so it remains unchanged in 3.5. Only the non-epic monsters with spell immunity were changed.

In addition to the edit in my above post: unrestricted immunity to magic is incoherent. That's why it was changed in 3.5. If the demilich is simply "immune to magic" then it is retroactively immune to its own creation process, it cannot use magic items despite being specifically able to use them when placed near its phylactery, etc. Immunity to Magic only makes sense with a reasonable definition of what qualifies as direct vs. indirect use of magic, and Spell Resistance is how the game does this.

Edit:


Also- Eldritch Blast can't be quickened? I thought it was a valid option for the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat.

This was briefly true, because the spell level of Eldritch Blast scaled with Caster Level so your caster level could never be high enough to Quicken it. Errata changed this scaling though so now it's doable.

[Harry]

I was under the impression that the demilich (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/demilich.htm) was updated for 3.5.

Me too strange :smallconfused:

[hamishspence]

I notice the golem trait is called "immunity to magic" whereas the demolish trait is called "magic immunity".

[Socratov]

There's update booklets- and I think the SRD used the update booklet for its demilich.

Also- Eldritch Blast can't be quickened? I thought it was a valid option for the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat.

well, it is, but it is specifically stated that you can't have more then 1 EB per round (per strict raw reading) (it's there in CA), so it's nice if you, like, want EB and an action to cast an invocation, but not for multiple blasts per round...

which is why chameleon 2 is so good for warlock, it's almost like a miniversion of a batman belt...

[Harry]

I notice the golem trait is called "immunity to magic" whereas the demolish trait is called "magic immunity".

Good point so they are not the same ability

[Urpriest]

I notice the golem trait is called "immunity to magic" whereas the demolish trait is called "magic immunity".

The Colossus trait is also called Magic Immunity. AFB at the moment, but I'd be willing to bet the golems had that phrasing in 3.0 as well.

[hamishspence]

Since supernatural effects are not subject to spell resistance-

I'm guessing it's intended that way, to ensure that magical attack of any kind just doesn't work on them.

Part of their epicness.

[Kuulvheysoon]

The Colossus trait is also called Magic Immunity. AFB at the moment, but I'd be willing to bet the golems had that phrasing in 3.0 as well.

Confirmed - In the MM2, it says (under the Golem entry):

Magic Immunity: Golems completely resist most magical and supernatural effects, except as noted below.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

In addition to the edit in my above post: unrestricted immunity to magic is incoherent. That's why it was changed in 3.5. If the demilich is simply "immune to magic" then it is retroactively immune to its own creation process, it cannot use magic items despite being specifically able to use them when placed near its phylactery, etc. Immunity to Magic only makes sense with a reasonable definition of what qualifies as direct vs. indirect use of magic, and Spell Resistance is how the game does this.Don't get too hasty now. It's not incoherent

Acquired templates check at only at one time like spells. Though most would ban keeping templates that you don't continuously qualify for before another level or template, I can't find a ruling sighting the retroactive problems associated with dragon disciple.

Magic items aren't magical effects -- they are bonuses. Perhaps this is RAW shakey ground like the drowning rules, but its clear for RAI. SR: Yes spells are just a small category of the things demiliches are meant to be immu

[Urpriest]

Don't get too hasty now. It's not incoherent

Acquired templates check at only at one time like spells. Though most would ban keeping templates that you don't continuously qualify for before another level or template, I can't find a ruling sighting the retroactive problems associated with dragon disciple.

Magic items aren't magical effects -- they are bonuses. Perhaps this is RAW shakey ground like the drowning rules, but its clear for RAI. SR: Yes spells are just a small category of the things demiliches are meant to be immu

A wall of iron is a magical effect, what happens when a demilich sits on one?

Creation of Species is an (Epic) magical effect, what happens when the resulting creatures attack? For that matter, what about something more basic, like Summon Monster or Gate? What about a demilich on a plane created by Genesis? What about an attack from someone who has been resurrected, aren't they an effect of a spell?

Unless you want to argue that effect specifies an Effect line, but of course then there are lots of things that offer SR and don't have an Effect line, and it would be rather silly to make a demilich vulnerable to all that. Is that what you're arguing?

[Harry]

A wall of iron is a magical effect, what happens when a demilich sits on one?

Creation of Species is an (Epic) magical effect, what happens when the resulting creatures attack? For that matter, what about something more basic, like Summon Monster or Gate? What about a demilich on a plane created by Genesis? What about an attack from someone who has been resurrected, aren't they an effect of a spell?

Unless you want to argue that effect specifies an Effect line, but of course then there are lots of things that offer SR and don't have an Effect line, and it would be rather silly to make a demilich vulnerable to all that. Is that what you're arguing?

Now that's just RAWtarded

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

A wall of iron is a magical effect, what happens when a demilich sits on one?

Creation of Species is an (Epic) magical effect, what happens when the resulting creatures attack? For that matter, what about something more basic, like Summon Monster or Gate? What about a demilich on a plane created by Genesis? What about an attack from someone who has been resurrected, aren't they an effect of a spell?

Unless you want to argue that effect specifies an Effect line, but of course then there are lots of things that offer SR and don't have an Effect line, and it would be rather silly to make a demilich vulnerable to all that. Is that what you're arguing?It was a magical effect. Now its just a mundane wall of iron. If it is something created by magic with a concentration duration or something then it would actually be a magical effect until its duration ran up. If only D&D had a way for things to not physically effecting other things (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype)... I'm not making a line of effect argument

epic stuff is generally ew though, so I won't follow into specie creation. Its just more trying to pathetically replace and play G

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Gee... good thing a Warlock can use a Wand of Holy Smite, isn't it? Oh, and Shatter-spam.

But seriously, it's not the Warlock's job to deal with a Demilitch. It's the Ubercharger's job. It's got less than two hundred hit points, after all. One swing ought to do the job, and he can't possibly miss at those levels.

Assuming the Wizard doesn't come up with an Epic Spell called "Assay Magic Immunity" to bypass this particular problem. That ought to work as well, since Epic magic already bypasses normal immunity to magic.

[Marnath]

A wall of iron is a magical effect, what happens when a demilich sits on one?


No it isn't. It's an instantaneous conjuration, it is created by magic but is not magic itself.


Gee... good thing a Warlock can use a Wand of Holy Smite, isn't it? Oh, and Shatter-spam.

But seriously, it's not the Warlock's job to deal with a Demilitch. It's the Ubercharger's job. It's got less than two hundred hit points, after all. One swing ought to do the job, and he can't possibly miss at those levels.

Assuming the Wizard doesn't come up with an Epic Spell called "Assay Magic Immunity" to bypass this particular problem. That ought to work as well, since Epic magic already bypasses normal immunity to magic.

Hahaha, no. An ubercharger isn't going to get anywhere close to something with perfect 180 fly speed and epic casting*. As a bare minimum tactically it's going to fly at an altitude of 1240 feet and bomb you with meteor swarms from absolute max range. If it actually puts that massive INT to work your chances of survival plummet. Oh, and it also has greater dispel magic and astral projection as some of it's at-will spell-likes.

*The sample Demi-lich on the SRD doesn't have epic casting, but that's because the person who put him together was a moron. No real Demi-lich would choose blinding speed over epic casting.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Hahaha, no. An ubercharger isn't going to get anywhere close to something with perfect 180 fly speed and epic casting*. As a bare minimum tactically it's going to fly at an altitude of 1240 feet and bomb you with meteor swarms from absolute max range. If it actually puts that massive INT to work your chances of survival plummet. Oh, and it also has greater dispel magic and astral projection as some of it's at-will spell-likes.Ubercharger alone? No. Ubercharger with an epic Wizard behind him with Quicken Teleport and one of dozens of ways to net Flight? Most definitely. 180 isn't really all that hard, when it comes down to it. Not when you are... oh, I dunno... CHARGING.


*The sample Demi-lich on the SRD doesn't have epic casting, but that's because the person who put him together was a moron. No real Demi-lich would choose blinding speed over epic casting.

This statement is more true. In this case, it will have to be yet another Batman Wizard vs Demilich Batman WIzard which ends up destroying the multiverse before either one of them are even beginning to break a sweat.

[Marnath]

Ubercharger alone? No. Ubercharger with an epic Wizard behind him with Quicken Teleport and one of dozens of ways to net Flight? Most definitely. 180 isn't really all that hard, when it comes down to it. Not when you are... oh, I dunno... CHARGING.


*Obligatory response about contingent spells and greater celerity etc. etc.* Every spellcaster vs. melee thread on the boards points out how easy it is to completely negate anything a non-spellcaster can do, so I'm not going to beat that dead horse anymore. The lich wins, period.


This statement is more true. In this case, it will have to be yet another Batman Wizard vs Demilich Batman WIzard which ends up destroying the multiverse before either one of them are even beginning to break a sweat.

Yeah.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

I like the assumption that all demiliches are epic. I bu

[Harry]

I just thought of another question if a demilich goes in a anti magic field would his magic imunnity allow him to cast spells in it? or would the antimagic field bypass his immunity ? Is this a unstoppable force immovable object paradox?

[Marnath]

I just thought of another question if a demilich goes in a anti magic field would his magic imunnity allow him to cast spells in it? or would the antimagic field bypass his immunity ? Is this a unstoppable force immovable object paradox?

He wouldn't be able to cast normal spells from within the area, but he could use a mage's disjunction from outside to attempt to destroy it if he really had to. Or he could use gate to call something nasty since called creatures don't wink out like summoned creatures do. Honestly antimagic field has such a small area that it would never be a problem unless a person he really needed to kill was inside it.