Straight Hand to Hand Fighter

[DarknessB4Dawn]

As the title suggests, I'm going to be making a hand to hand fighter as my next character for an upcoming campaign. My DM won't allow monks because he says they are broken, or at least the ones he has ran adventures with. I also was hoping that I would not have to cross class into 50 different things to make my character awesome. Cheese and noncheese builds are welcome, though my race has already been picked as a human, and I have access to most of the 3.5 books. As long as the feats and whatnot is written down, it is allowed on the table. Please and thank you guys in advance for your help.

[Zonugal]

Monks... Broken?

Oh my......

Well ugh... Do you access to Tome of Battle?

[DarknessB4Dawn]

I know I have it on PDF on a flash drive, as well as Sandstorm. I was looking at a few things on there.

[FMArthur]

Take the Superior Unarmed Strike feat from Tome of Battle. You can get Improved Unarmed Strike to qualify and Improved Natural Attack to boost it by buying a Fanged Ring from Dragon Magic.

There, that's as much build focus as you need to make it into a good weapon. More isn't necessary since you should probably focus on other things from there that influence what you're doing, since "punches people" is not a real character concept or even a real fighting style. Some people just like to go overboard in maximizing the size and power of unarmed strikes when they make unarmed builds but IMO it's not worth the build focus.

[Gray Mage]

An unarmed swordsage (from ToB) is a good choice. You can even go all 20 levels and be awesome.

[Seerow]

If a monk is broken, the only real answer is to play a Truenamer.

[deuxhero]

Or CW Samurai

[FMArthur]

Monks are broken. What's the problem? That doesn't always mean overpowered, you know. I can easily see a DM saying they shouldn't be played because they just aren't functional participants. I've had enough bad experiences DMing with people hopelessly trying to milk something out of the Monk class that I'd consider banning it too.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Broken awesome or broken weak?

...Did the previous adventures include numerous examples of AMFs, being stripped of all weapons and armor, and pit traps? As well as having to run away from guys, and fighting rust monsters?

Well, play, a cleric. I don't mean a healbot, I mean a cleric. Or maybe a druid. Take a look at their spell lists. Someone with more experience in clerics can help you build that. But I recommend you keep it core-only, just to really show the DM how powerful it can get. Divine Power, Righteous Might, and Divine Favor are the main buffs, and Air Walk is dead useful in most situations (although it's probably more so on an archer cleric). At lower levels, Entropic Shield, Protection from Evil, and Shield of Faith are good, and Divine Favor is most useful at this level. Bull's Strength is also good until you get a Belt of Giant's Strength, Hold Person is good against brutes (goblins, orcs, ogres, trolls, giants, fighters, but probably not barbarians), and Resist Energy and Lesser Restoration can be very good if you know what enemy you're going up against. Druid, well, druid has a wolf (although actually, riding dog has superior stats) form level 1, can heal, and can cast a bunch of other spells, as well as turn into animals starting at level 5 (although it's only really good starting at level 6, when you can get Natural Spell).

[Dumbledore lives]

If you've got it get into Fist of the Forest from Complete Champion, it's a 3 level class that gives you decent unarmed damage and a decent rage like thing. I think the best unarmed fighter actually mixes Barbarian into the build as well, then goes into Frostrager (from Frostburn), and Snap Kick from Tome of Battle to get more attacks than a Monk's flurry, with better base attack to actually hit with.

[Randomguy]

Check the zinc saucier monk thread: it's basically how you make a build that has the monk feel without taking actual levels in monk.

Unarmed swordsage variant would work well.

Swift hunter druid varient is also decent: swap your wildshape for wis to AC and other monk bonuses. It makes you weaker, but you're still tier 1, and it's better if you prefer beating people up with your fists instead of as a bear.
You can use spellcasting to buff yourself up (with spells like greater magic fang). Take improved unarmed strike and superior unarmed strike. There are all sorts of spells that increase your melee and unarmed capabilities.

Whether you're a druid or a cleric, try going into the Sacred Fist prestige class. It's a lot harder to qualify without levels in monk, but you could still get in at higher levels. Taking 2 levels in a full BAB class would be helpfull to get in earlier. (Probably ranger or barbarian for druid and paladin or fighter for cleric, if you want to keep flavour).

Fist of the forest is another prestige class that improves your unarmed abilities. You could go in as a barbarian or ranger ( or multiclass between them). You'd probably have the feel of a brawler, rather than a monk.

If you want cheese, be a DMM persist melee cleric. Look up a few guides online.

[Urpriest]

If your DM is of the opinion that monks are brokenly powerful then any advice we give you will be seen as such as well. Go for the most intuitive and obvious options in the core books, anything else will set your DM off. It's actually kind of a fun exercise to build a "what the designers intended" build if you're in the mood: for something like an unarmed fighter there are enough feats and requirements involved that simply making the thing functional without doing anything remotely clever is an interesting lesson in the...properties...of core. For example, check out how Stunning Fist works for non-monks, then realize that the designers seriously expected unarmed fighters to take it anyway. Yeah.

[DarknessB4Dawn]

Wow, I was looking at most of the things mentioned and I might go Swordmage if it is allowed. For the time being I have my feats picked out for level one, this is going to seem odd but "homebrewed" allows us to take the feats from the starter package as well as the ones you would get without taking it. So as a human fighter I get six feats,(three from the fighter starting package, and three for being a lvl 1 human fighter), to start off with.....that's a lot imo but I'm not going to argue. :smallwink: I am also allowed to alter the feats in the starter package. :smallamused: For what I have imagined is he's going to be a grappler who's combat revolves around disarming, tripping, and pinning, as well as destroying opponent weapons. So what I've picked so far is; Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Earth's Embrace, Power Attack, and I was contemplating Two Weapon Fighting so I can use both fists per round. With TWF, would I even suffer penalties with unarmed strikes because they are treated as light weapons/natural? If so, I would only take a -1 AR to both attacks due to the WF correct?

[Voyager_I]

this is going to seem odd but "homebrewed" allows us to take the feats from the starter package as well as the ones you would get without taking it. So as a human fighter I get six feats,(three from the fighter starting package, and three for being a lvl 1 human fighter), to start off with.....that's a lot imo but I'm not going to argue. :smallwink:

Out of curiosity, has your DM ever played this game before?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Don't play a grappler. Unless, of course, you're going to max out strength, take Jotunbrud, get a party caster to cast Enlarge Person on you, and take Shape Soulmeld: Girallon Arms. Also, pray to the dice gods.

As for Weapon Focus, you get that from being a swordsage already. Practically all the disciplines have unarmed strike as a favored weapon.

[mattie_p]

Out of curiosity, has your DM ever played this game before?

Let's see, he won't let them play monk, he gives a first level 6 feats. I'd say either that or it'll be a TPK every other session. Play a CoDzilla if you want to live.

[Gwendol]

Correct re: TWF, but you only get those in when full attacking (which wont be that often).
Take combat reflexes instead of TWF perhaps? Or better yet, instead of grappling. Grappling is hard to pull off consistently, and typically gets harder as the game progresses. Playing a Powerful Build race helps, and getting the monk way of dealing damage in grapples, but for a fighter your rounds be better spent just doing damage. Maybe work in Imp disarm instead?