(PF) Cleric/Rogue Medic?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

I had an idea for a healer turned mercenary style character. He starts his career as a naive, looking for adventure wandering cleric, and falls in with an adventuring group. After a couple of adventures, he takes a more martial path: his training as a healer affords him the knowledge of anatomy for sneak attack, and his constant exposure to the adventurer's life brings him the skills of a rogue. He makes a life as mercenary combat medic, healing in the midst of combat, and fighting as a support combatant.

The will saves ( a weakness of rogues) would be somewhat alleviated, I would have access to medium armor and shields (probably just a buckler so i could hold of wand of cure whatever wounds).

How viable is this idea ( seems good to me) and how would YOU go about it, as far as levels in each class, feats, stats, etc?

Thanks in advance all!

[gorfnab]

Well if you start as cleric. Cleric 3/ Rogue 3/ Divine Trickster 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9623145&postcount=7)/ Divine Oracle (or something full casting) 4. Feats of note: Craven and Sacred Outlaw.

[Gavinfoxx]

I'd do it via pure cleric...

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=292794

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

so... PF= Pathfinder. that means, none of the prestige classes mentioned or craven or sacred outlaw.

straight Cleric doesnt match my stated goal: a mercenary with a background in healing, i.e. cleric 1/Rogue 3. I dont want a dedicated healer/spellcaster, but a roguish mercenary with minor healing abilities. In short, a Combat Medic, not a dedicated Healer.

[Corlindale]

Be aware that healing in combat is usually a very inefficient strategy - especially if you just have minor healing powers. From an optimal perspective, there will almost always be better things to do for you than heal, if you're primarily a rogue.

I would just grab 1 level of cleric and get some useful domains, the ability to use cleric wands and the boost to fort and will saves. Then just rogue from then on. The Sanctified Rogue archetype kind of fits the fluff, but it's not particularly powerful.

Invest heavily in the UMD skills so you can get to use higher level cleric scrolls in a pinch. Heal is one of the best spells for in-combat healing, so at higher levels you could grab a few scrolls of that, if you really want to be an in-combat healer.

[Gavinfoxx]

Ah, duh, right, pure pathfinder... sorry, that was stupid of me.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Be aware that healing in combat is usually a very inefficient strategy - especially if you just have minor healing powers. From an optimal perspective, there will almost always be better things to do for you than heal, if you're primarily a rogue.

I would just grab 1 level of cleric and get some useful domains, the ability to use cleric wands and the boost to fort and will saves. Then just rogue from then on. The Sanctified Rogue archetype kind of fits the fluff, but it's not particularly powerful.

Invest heavily in the UMD skills so you can get to use higher level cleric scrolls in a pinch. Heal is one of the best spells for in-combat healing, so at higher levels you could grab a few scrolls of that, if you really want to be an in-combat healer.

I agree, there are better things to do... for the most part. However, sometimes you cant position for a sneak attack, and sometimes a well placed cure wounds can shift the whole tide of battle. Also, the rogue doesnt really lose anything from it, but gains a fair bit. Better saves, Medium armor, 100% chance to use cleric wands and scrolls, a couple spells, and some very basic Channel Energy.

Seems like a good idea, no? Am I missing something?

[Gavinfoxx]

MMmm... I usually think of things like this:

Situation: A monster goes RAR! and attacks

How do you contribute to the negation of the immediate threat? How do you make sure that you bring sufficient value that your share of the treasure (and any resources anyone else spends on you as far as actions or buffs or whatever) are well spent, and you are contributing to the overall survival of the group rather than being a drain?

What is your value add?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

MMmm... I usually think of things like this:

Situation: A monster goes RAR! and attacks

How do you contribute to the negation of the immediate threat? How do you make sure that you bring sufficient value that your share of the treasure (and any resources anyone else spends on you as far as actions or buffs or whatever) are well spent, and you are contributing to the overall survival of the group rather than being a drain?

What is your value add?

going by this, I just wouldnt play a rogue, due to its general need for buffs (invisiblity, haste, etc.) the only thing a rogue provides in case of a monster attacking (RAR!) is the need for a flanking buddy, super stealth (which is borked) or some other way of dealing Sneak Attack damage... and if its damage you want, other classes do it better.

However, adding a single level of Cleric adds to your survival (better saves, better armor, spells), and adds versatility to your character (rogue or otherwise) and provides back up support for your party. (increasing their survival).

...So basically, going by your methods, I should never really play anything other than a straight classed Bard, Cleric, Wizard, Druid, Sorcerer, Oracle, because every other class is a drain on the resources and survivability of the aforementioned classes.

Thats really boring, mate.

So... I want to play a character, more specifically, a roguish mercenary type with a background in healing. in this case, I am thinking Cleric 1/Rogue X. A healer who goes adventuring, and becomes more like the rest of his adventuring party: roguish, mercenary, but still somewhat capable in a medic capacity: He's not gonna bring someone back from the dead, but he would certainly be able to stabilize anyone, and provide minor, back up healing. He would wear a breastplate, carry a buckler and various cleric scrolls and wands.

I dont want to play an all powerful primary caster who can bend reality and and not need to play as a team with a party. Which, as I mentioned before, it seems you are saying are the only classes people should be playing, because all other classes are a drain of party resources.

[Corlindale]

Also, the rogue doesnt really lose anything from it, but gains a fair bit. Better saves, Medium armor, 100% chance to use cleric wands and scrolls, a couple spells, and some very basic Channel Energy.

Seems like a good idea, no? Am I missing something?

I do think dipping 1 level of cleric can be a powerful choice for a rogue, that's why I suggested it. I just don't think in-combat healing is the main reason for that, because you probably won't be healing all that much in combat.
But all the other stuff is very, very nice - boosts your weak saves, opens up a lot of powerful buff spells on wands, and lets you cherry pick two domains with useful powers (Luck would be quite thematic for a Rogue, and gives you a pretty powerful ability to buff your party fighter - but there are many other good choices too). 1d6 Channel Energy is not going to come up very often, though, but I guess it might be situationally useful if several allies are down and need to be stabilized.

[gorfnab]

Any thought on a Vivisectionist Alchemist? It can heal and has sneak attack.

[Laniius]

Any thought on a Vivisectionist Alchemist? It can heal and has sneak attack.

Not only that, Vivisectionist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/vivisectionist) is able to be combined with Chirurgeon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/chirurgeon). So you will get sneak attack as rogue, all of your cure extracts will function as infusions so other people can benefit (hey, free potions essentially), you'll get a bonus to Heal checks (though I'm not sure how that combines with the Vivisectionist's Cruel Anatomist ability), and you get to add Breath of Life to your list of extracts so you have a way to bring back the dead.

On the Cleric side, Trickery is a good domain for a stealthy cleric with it's spells and for the other consider Travel or Charm (Travel has good spells, and Charm is thematic in my opinion).

Also, I'm not sure how powerful it is, but the Sanctified Rogue Archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/sanctified-rogue) may be a good thematic choice, though I'm not sure that a +1 sacred bonus to Will and Fort saves and augury once per day is enough to justify giving up uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge.

Or, as an oddball suggestion, I'm fond of the Seeker Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/seeker-oracle) archetype. Not a cleric or a rogue, but you cast divine spells, have trapfinding (in all but name), and get cheap metamagic for your mystery spells

[Akal Saris]

The rogueish, minor medic type you described could also work by playing a standard melee ranger and tweaking the flavor to represent him as less nature-focused and more of a capable soldier who's used to long campaigns in the wild.

The Guide archetype's abilities also simulate pretty decently the ability to pinpoint the 'weak points' of a single opponent in melee, while the freebooter archetype (pirate!) would fit the idea of a mercenary leader who inspires his allies to fight the good fight. You'd probably have the right amount of healing spells to fit the concept anyhow.

With that said, I like the vivisectionist/chirugeon alchemist idea a lot :smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

For out of combat healing, nothing beats the Glorious Heat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/glorious-heat).
For the record, Spark (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spark) has the fire descriptor.

[ericgrau]

Even with a cleric dip you can still heal between battles as well as anyone. At low levels in combat channel energy healing might even be worth something.

What I would focus on though is damage in combat. If you can at least get 2nd level cleric spells you can use them on grace which is a super-tumble letting you set up flanks with ease. With the travel domain and longstrider you can move to flank even faster. Your BAB is only 1 behind and if you get a buffing round you can bless the party or cat's grace yourself. But later I'd get potions for that and focus all your spell slots on grace. Besides that put your remaining 1st level spells into inflict light wounds. Now all your single attacks are touch attack sneak attacks that bypass DR, easily overcoming that lost BAB and then some. Even against undead you can spontaneously convert those to cures and do the same thing. Plus it is really using your theme since you're actually using your understanding of the body to hurt much more effectively. For your 2nd domain I'd pick something with a touch attack domain power to give you 5 more touches; maybe death domain. Or consider a wand of inflict light wounds. The trickery domain might be handy too for mirror image as a move action, and since it eats your move it gives you more reason to focus on your powerful single attacks.

Once you get 3+ attacks you might consider quick draw to switch from spell to weapon and still get a full attack. But because your single attacks are so good I'd get a masterwork buckler (no nonproficiency penalty because it has no ACP) instead of two weapon fighting.

So IMO do cleric 3 / rogue X with 14 wis for the bonus spell. Ideally I'd get the trickery and travel domains with a wand of inflict light wounds. If you're playing with traits get the one that grants +2 caster level on gishes which is effectively +2 damage for you.