Factotum Gestalt

[White_Drake]

Based off of the tier system, Factotums are Tier 3. A suggested fix for tier differences is a partial gestalt, with tier 3 classes being allowed to gestalt as a NPC class. Does it seem reasonable to allow a Factotum to gestalt as the martial Factotum homebrew, despite it being a PC class, because nearly all abilities would be redundant? The idea is extremely appealing to me, I must admit. Such a class could do essentially anything.

[Soranar]

Despite what you'd think, a Factotum allowed a partial gestalt wouldn't get that much of an improvement (at best it would make him a lower tier 2).

An expert or commoner gestalt wouldn't add anything to the class.

A warrior gestalt would give it full BAB, better HP and bonus feats, again nothing that would smash a campaign to bits like a tier 1 class can.

An adept gestalt would give it more spells (which can be cast in armor as they're divine) and a familiar (which it could already get from obtain familiar).

All in all the Factotum/Warrior would seem to be the best option (since adept spellcasting is just too limited, you're better off using UMD and UPD instead and using obtain familiar to gain in action economy).

[Piggy Knowles]

A warrior gestalt would give it full BAB, better HP and bonus feats, again nothing that would smash a campaign to bits like a tier 1 class can.

Eh, warriors only get d8 hit die and don't get any bonus feats. You'd really only get full BAB and good Fort saves out of the deal.

(Of course, a factotum with full BAB and good Fort saves would be a darn good class. But it would still be T3.)

[Slipperychicken]

Based off of the tier system, Factotums are Tier 3. A suggested fix for tier differences is a partial gestalt, with tier 3 classes being allowed to gestalt as a NPC class. Does it seem reasonable to allow a Factotum to gestalt as the martial Factotum homebrew, despite it being a PC class, because nearly all abilities would be redundant? The idea is extremely appealing to me, I must admit. Such a class could do essentially anything.

Thing is, T1 comes from truly unlimited versatility (which in 3.5 is only achieved through some kinds of spellcasting), and having a trillion and one ways to break the game on a whim. Giving better saves, base attack, etc does not accomplish this. The Wizard would be T1 even if it had +0 base attack (not even half BAB, I mean zero), saves, and a d2 hit die.


T2 is pretty much the same deal, only with somewhat reduced versatility and means of smashing the game. Again, better saves/HD/proficiencies do not do this.


It will be strong, but it takes a lot more than that to bump it up a tier.

[White_Drake]

Perhaps I was unclear, I wasn't asking if allowing a Factotum to gestalt as a NPC class was overpowered, I was asking about gestalting as the martial dilettante homebrew class from these forums (Sorry, I have no idea where to hyperlink from). Just to be clear, it's not the balance of the homebrew that I'm questioning, but whether or not gestalting as the homebrew would be balanced in comparison to a NPC class due to the fact that although as a class the martial dilettante is obviously superior but, it would be mostly redundant.

[Slipperychicken]

Perhaps I was unclear, I wasn't asking if allowing a Factotum to gestalt as a NPC class was overpowered, I was asking about gestalting as the martial dilettante homebrew class from these forums (Sorry, I have no idea where to hyperlink from). Just to be clear, it's not the balance of the homebrew that I'm questioning, but whether or not gestalting as the homebrew would be balanced in comparison to a NPC class due to the fact that although as a class the martial dilettante is obviously superior but, it would be mostly redundant.

Martial Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212864) is a Factotum variant, and thus can't be Gestalted with vanilla Factotum.


Building A Gestalt Character (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm)
To make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two standard classes. (You can also choose any of the variant classes, though you can’t combine two versions of the same class.) Build your character according to the following guidelines.

[White_Drake]

Ah, thank you.

[FMArthur]

I thought this thread was talking about a houseruling to begin with; the actual rules don't matter for that. You just want to know if it's overpowered relative to other Tier 3s gestalted with NPC classes, right?

I think it would be overpowered to arrange it it. That martial maneuver progression (particularly since you can retrain it every day and from all 9 disciplines...) just by itself, isolated from the rest of the Factotum's features, would be better than anything you'd gain with an NPC class on pretty much anyone - hell, I'd even take it on a Warblade or Crusader if given the option. The Factotum gains even more with it than them. So, not very balanced.