Transformers General Discussion

[Gamer Girl]

I love the Transformers! One of the great cartoons and toys I grew up with! But it seems like there are not many Transfans around, except maybe here? So you you'd like to talk about the Transformers, lets talk about it here....

In general, I'm a G1 kind of girl and don't care much for the intimations after that(except Beast Wars, but that was kinda still G1).

So first of all, does anyone know of any Transformer G1 type sites with chats/forums out there? Ones that are active? Not ones were the last post says something like ''Jan 15th 2004''.

And for my first discussion point:
1.Animals Lots of Transformers can turn into animals, but they are not really 'Cybertoian Animals'. I see three types:

Type one Are the ones who are otherwise normal average transformers in every way, except they have an animal ault mode. Scorponok and all the Beast Wars ones fit here.

Type two Are the less then average Transformers that have let there 'animal sides' take over so they are not quite normal. The Predicons and the Dinobots are two great examples.

Type three Are the ones that seem to be almost all animal. The big thing to note here is that they do not have a humanoid alt mode, can't or won't speak, and act very, very much like animals and not people. All the animal cassettes fit here like Ravage, Laserbeak or Steeljaw.

So type one are just normal Transformers. Type two are almost normal, but are 'savage and primitive'. And type three are near animal.

So how does all that work?

It does seem that only some of the Transformers 'want' beast modes, as most stick to vehicles. And there is almost no crossing over, you don't go from having a cat mode to a car mode. So, why? Any thoughts?

Are some Transformers 'defective' so they are made into 'animal types'?

Are some Transformers so badly damaged that they can only be saved by 'making them animals'?

Can a Transformer choose to 'go savage'?

Are the type three ones 'pure animals' that were never 'people'?


I kinda like the damage one myself. It fits with the whole 'never ending war'. Some times 'bots are damaged and can only be saved by making them 'lesser animal types'.

Though I do like the 'monster' side....where a normal person 'bot can 'go savage' to try and get more power....but it runs the risk of them 'becoming the animal'.

Any thoughts any one?

[Aotrs Commander]

IAnd for my first discussion point:
1.Animals Lots of Transformers can turn into animals, but they are not really 'Cybertoian Animals'. I see three types:

Type one Are the ones who are otherwise normal average transformers in every way, except they have an animal ault mode. Scorponok and all the Beast Wars ones fit here.

Type two Are the less then average Transformers that have let there 'animal sides' take over so they are not quite normal. The Predicons and the Dinobots are two great examples.

Type three Are the ones that seem to be almost all animal. The big thing to note here is that they do not have a humanoid alt mode, can't or won't speak, and act very, very much like animals and not people. All the animal cassettes fit here like Ravage, Laserbeak or Steeljaw.

So type one are just normal Transformers. Type two are almost normal, but are 'savage and primitive'. And type three are near animal.

So how does all that work?

It does seem that only some of the Transformers 'want' beast modes, as most stick to vehicles. And there is almost no crossing over, you don't go from having a cat mode to a car mode. So, why? Any thoughts?

Are some Transformers 'defective' so they are made into 'animal types'?

Are some Transformers so badly damaged that they can only be saved by 'making them animals'?

Can a Transformer choose to 'go savage'?

Are the type three ones 'pure animals' that were never 'people'?


I kinda like the damage one myself. It fits with the whole 'never ending war'. Some times 'bots are damaged and can only be saved by making them 'lesser animal types'.

Though I do like the 'monster' side....where a normal person 'bot can 'go savage' to try and get more power....but it runs the risk of them 'becoming the animal'.

Any thoughts any one?

Well first off, all those points are entirely dependant on the G1 cartoon.

My own top, proper "canon" in Transformers is instead the G1 Marvel comics (specifically, the UK comic which comprised all of the US one plus a great deal extra). In that, all of the aforementioned animal types were perfectly capable of speech, and only Grimlock spoke differently (i.e. more like he did in the cartoon); in that continuity, it was specifically an affectation - he was actually quite bright, bright enough to be Prime's second-in-command and leader in his absence, but he equated intelligence to weakness, so pretended to be dumber than he was.

Now, some of the more animalistic Transformers were more beastial, but even then is was more because (if one read the Transformers Universe files on them all) because they were, well, not to put too fine a point on it, crazy (see the Predacons aside from Razorclaw and Divebomb).)



One point of note, though it comes from the out-of-continuity Earthforce storyline (which was a bit more lighthearted and contains some of my favourite Transformers moments ever), where Grimlock was appinted leader of the Earth-based Autobots, while Prime was dealing with the rest off-world. In this instance, the story went that Slag suffered from a condition that basically meant his emotional suppressors went on the blink every four millions years or so, and he went on a rampage. (This, being a secret the Dinobots kept amongst themselves, happened naturally while Prime was inspecting the base, while the Dinobots tried to keep him from finding the rampaging Slag, and in which Hilarity Ensued.)

I mention this mainly as, despite it's out-of-continuity status, it doesn't really contradict anything else (it was written by Simon Furman, who has, after all, probably written a more sizable proportion of all Transformers comics than any other bloke!), so it a plausible possibility. Those Transformers that are more beastial may be suffering from the same sort of problem Slag had, an actual physical lack of emotional control systems. One could apply the theory to any of the continuities, as there's no reason it couldn't be true in any or all of them.

[Devonix]

I am of a mind with Aotrs

For me the Marvel US and UK comics are the highest form of Transformers Cannon being as they came before everything else. I loved the characterization that the animal form of the Transformers were not really more bestial than the humaniod forms.

It makes sense because to a Giant alien robot a Looking like a human or looking like a dog are both Animal Forms.

[bloodtide]

For me the Marvel US and UK comics are the highest form of Transformers Cannon being as they came before everything else.

The Marvel comics are just so bad though. You get what 100 issues and most writers could not provide even the slightest characterization for a single Transformer. You just get a bunch of random names that do a bunch of random stuff.

The cassettes are sure just animals even in the comics though...the whole like three issues they are in. US Transformers #20 is a solo Skids and Ravage story, and Ravage is just a big, bad cat. But like most Transformers, writers can't be bothered with things like characterization for them either.

I wonder of Comic vs. Cartoon:

1)Who likes the 'zombie' Shockwave from the cartoon and who likes the 'cool, evil' Shockwave from the comics?

2)Who likes the 'zombie' Soundwave from the cartoon and who likes the 'sneaky and evil' Soundwave, er, as written on his card on the box but no comic writer ever bothered to use.

[Devonix]

The Marvel comics are just so bad though. You get what 100 issues and most writers could not provide even the slightest characterization for a single Transformer. You just get a bunch of random names that do a bunch of random stuff.

The cassettes are sure just animals even in the comics though...the whole like three issues they are in. US Transformers #20 is a solo Skids and Ravage story, and Ravage is just a big, bad cat. But like most Transformers, writers can't be bothered with things like characterization for them either.

I wonder of Comic vs. Cartoon:

1)Who likes the 'zombie' Shockwave from the cartoon and who likes the 'cool, evil' Shockwave from the comics?

2)Who likes the 'zombie' Soundwave from the cartoon and who likes the 'sneaky and evil' Soundwave, er, as written on his card on the box but no comic writer ever bothered to use.

Oh yes early issues were terrrrrrible. it wasn't untill they got less scrutiny that things like Matrix Quest the Unicron stuff. Ratbat being leader and such got done. Lazerbeak wasn't and buzzsaw from my reccolection were also not just animals.

[DigoDragon]

I grew up on the original G1 Transformers. I didn't really get into Beast Wars much. I saw about a dozen episodes or so. What I am into lately is Transformers Prime. It is about as good as Transformers can get since G1to me. :smallsmile:

[Aotrs Commander]

The Marvel comics are just so bad though. You get what 100 issues and most writers could not provide even the slightest characterization for a single Transformer. You just get a bunch of random names that do a bunch of random stuff.

The cassettes are sure just animals even in the comics though...the whole like three issues they are in. US Transformers #20 is a solo Skids and Ravage story, and Ravage is just a big, bad cat. But like most Transformers, writers can't be bothered with things like characterization for them either.

I wonder of Comic vs. Cartoon:

1)Who likes the 'zombie' Shockwave from the cartoon and who likes the 'cool, evil' Shockwave from the comics?

2)Who likes the 'zombie' Soundwave from the cartoon and who likes the 'sneaky and evil' Soundwave, er, as written on his card on the box but no comic writer ever bothered to use.

The UK run had 332 issues, and by the time it had hit it's stride, characterisation aplenty.

This thread has actually made me go back to the comics for the first time in twenty-odd years to re-read them. (Though yes, the early ones aren't great, but I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as you may remember - or perhaps it's simply not to your taste. The artwork was pretty dynamic, even at this early stage (as compared to Generation 2, as recently seen of Atop the Forth Wall (the other part of me going back to re-read them).)

Fun fact. First line of dialogue spoken in the comics?

Ravage's.

While Ravage and Laserbeak (et al) often preferred to non-vocalise, throughout their run, they showed they were perfectly capable of it, for the earliest issues to the latest. (And the cassettes were pretty much the ONLY animal/beast-mode Transformers than even went that far. The Seacons (favourites of mine, them being the only special team of whom I have all member), Predacons and Teracons all spoke normally. (Or at least fairly normally...!))

Indeed, my introduction of the first comics was in the Enemy Within - first story written by Simon Furman, as it happens, where Ravage was a major character, at odds with Starscream.

Incidently, after the unfortunatle encounter with Skids (which falls somewhere in the mid 50s in the UK version - not got as far as that yet - he didn't reappear until the Time Wars Saga around issue 200, when he was speaking and talking normally.)

The accusation of lack of characterisation is unfair, as well because even this early (just got to pre-Dinobot Hunt), there were a few moments (Bluestreak freezing up when presented with something unfamiliar, Huffer's chronic home-sickness.) And late on, particularly in Furman's stories in the mid-to-late run, characterisation abounded (especially with his favourites, Grimlock and Starscream), even when counting the fact there were so many characters.

Though perhaps the Furmanisms are an acquired taste...! (Though from reading around in latter years, it's no worse than the other Marvel comics of the Eighties - and is arguably better than some of the Ninties Marvel stuff...!) It's a bit dated now... But so is the G1 cartoon. (Which also didn't have a lot of characterisation in the early (season 1) episodes, that didn't pick up until season 2 itself. Though one could make the reasonable argument that the fact that it is voice-acted gives it a leg-up in that regard, which is fair enough.)

You also have to remember that season 1 was the only one shown in the UK, more or less, on terrestial television in the Saturday Morning cartoon slots, so only a vanishing handful of us ever got to see the later cartoons (me not among them), so the comic, which was in those days, having a distribution they would kill for nowadays, being in every newsagent's, so it was pretty much the only one. (In fact, as the mistakes sharp-eyed children picked up in the cartoon (animation errors and the like), and brought it up on the letters page (first answered by Soundwave himself (then Grimlock, then Dreadwind, and finally Blaster)), Soundwave said that the cartoons should be considered an alternative reality, one that was not completely accurate. And when one is in the six-to-eight period, you take the word of a Transformer to heart! (Soundwave did state that they'd got his voice down pat, though...)

And the comic IS a more "mature" (sic) take, in that from the very start, Transformers - and humans - get injured and killed right out of the gate, and - after a few false starts - the overall ploits became much smarter. (The plot of Dinobot Hunt was basically Soundwave using the mentally damaged and unstable Dinobots to thin the Autobot's ranks while they tried to save their erstwhile companions - and the Decepticons basically WON that round, something they never did in the cartoon.) Heck, the it was, if dealing with fleshy beings, mega-violent! Which of course appealled to all the young boys of the time, especially given TV's rather tame take on violence (i.e. nobody ever really got badly hurt.) It brought it home to you that war is unpleasant once you'd watched Optimus Prime getting his arm blown off, and seeing injured Transformers with sparking cables and leaking fluids...



You know what, I might even keep this thread updated with my thoughts as I go through the rest of the series.



Actually, on that note, that reminds me of soemthing I was going to say anyway: Circuit Breaker. Oh dear, Circuit Breaker. That's a character that never would have made it to the cartoon...!

Circuit Breaker (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Circuit_Breaker)
You do have to wonder, when she was making that, what the heck she was thinking... And, by the way, in those pictures, she's actually more densely covered in bits than in some of the comics (including the Christmas issue I just read). Presumably she must have built heating systems in there, because shes was walking around in nothing more than a TMNT-style Unconvincing Trenchcoat when there was snow on the ground.

Though myself being mercifully immune, one has to rhetorically ask into how many young boy's fantasies she made it... (Probably not as many as Thundercat's Cheetara notoriously did, but...)



Edit: Of course, Dinobot hunt itself makes for an interesting supporting point in that the Dinobots did go beastial, locked in their Alt-modes - so again, then is some support for the emotional dampner stuff I mentioned earlier, and Gamer Girl's original hypothesis.