[CompPsi]Ardent Questions and Multiclassing

[Arakune]

How does the power learning and highest power know works for an ardent?

I saw enough builds that want to make use of the Ardent special way to gain powers, most of the time combined with Ur-priest and a wizard class to get as many abilities as possible, but I'm not sure how to take it.

I have complete psi right in front of me, so if somebody could explain to me, and give me an example I would be very glad.

[HunterOfJello]

Okay, here we go. The Ardent is pretty awesome because it has a somewhat strange mechanic for the level of powers that it can learn. Most classes learn powers based on levels that are assigned in the tables. The Ardent doesn't work that way. Here's the specific text:


At each additional level, an ardent learns one new power from her available mantles. She must be able to manifest the new power at the level at which she learns it, however.

These sentences seem fairly innocent enough, but they have a slightly hidden meaning. The meaning is this: you can learn any power you choose from your mantles as long as you have enough power points to manifest it.

Wow, now that is impressive. That means that if you pick up the feat Practiced Manifester that you can learn powers that cost 4 more power points than usual. For instance, if you are a Ardent 3/Fighter 4 with the Practiced Manifester feat, then you can manifest powers that cost 7 power points. Also, because you are an ardent, you can learn powers that cost 7 power points. Fourth level powers cost 7 power points to manifest, so Ta Da! You can learn 4th level powers while only having 3 levels of Ardent. You may only possess 11 power points at that level, but you can spend 7 of them on a 4th level power like Immovability or Planar Apotheosis.

The mechanic allows you to learn higher level powers faster for the cost of a single feat. The trick only works if you have the Practiced Manifester feat, but it would appear that the designers intended for things to be that way since they were absolutely aware of what people would do with what they were writing.

So, if you're considering dipping into a psionic class and have a high wisdom score on your level 4+ character, consider dipping into the Ardent class instead of the Psion. You lose out on a psionic feat and some powers, but you'll gain a few mantle abilities and will gain access to some higher level powers very quickly.

~~

NOTE: Ardents choose powers from the mantles that they posses. They also have a strange mechanic for the mantles they choose and for which powers they can choose from those mantles. That's an entirely separate discussion and odd mechanic.

[Flickerdart]

PP nothing. Ardents can learn any powers they can manifest. Ioun stone? Overchannel? Torc of Power Preservation? Fire away.

The only problem IIRC is that you can only start doing this after 1st level, by RAW, meaning that you need to suck up having 1st level Ardent powers for your first Ardent level, regardless of where it is, and then you need to take more levels to "update" your highest level power. Not gaining the appropriate PP also puts a bit of a chip into Ardent multiclassing shenanigans.

[Arakune]

I was thinking, apparently you can do this:

Ardent 2/Wizard 1/Cerebremancer X

With Practiced Manifester (Ardent) and Precocious Apprentice, your forth level can be Cerebremancer. Add Mind Mage and you have access to 9th-level powers and 8th-level spells.

The only problem is the reliance on Tap Mantle for extra powers...

[lord_khaine]

From what i can see that wont work, the cerebromancer specifies 2nd level arcane spell's, so 1 level wizard with 1 level 2 spell wont be enough to qualify.


The mechanic allows you to learn higher level powers faster for the cost of a single feat. The trick only works if you have the Practiced Manifester feat, but it would appear that the designers intended for things to be that way since they were absolutely aware of what people would do with what they were writing.

Actualy i have read that this were not the intention of the designer, who meant for the class to work like a normal psion in regards to what it could manifest.