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View Full Version : A 3.5 Half-orc you'll actually want to play. All PEACHing HUGELY APPRECIATED!!!!



Empedocles
2012-04-05, 12:42 AM
No one likes half-orcs. Why? Because you can't give a race a bonus to strength and a penalty to intelligence and expect people not to play them like giant mindless bruisers. And yes. This is sometimes appropriate, especially when you make this race's favored class a class that has "illiteracy" as an ability at first level.

Now, I have no intentions of starting an argument on this thread over how well the PHB half-orc is or isn't designed but I don't believe I'd be alone in saying that D&D needs a better half-orc. I'm about to try and make one. This half-orc is meant to be badass, but in a much cooler, more stylish way then the PHB half-orcs. That being said, here're a few notes about the design. First, I more or less ignored the orc from the Monster Manual in designing this half-orc. Yeah, that's bad of me, and when it's done I might revise it based both on feedback and the MM orc, but for now it's going to be my own work. Completely. Second, I'm formatting this like the races from the PHB. However, if this gets a suitable amount of love, I'm going to redo it in the "Races of X" format, which is much more in depth and will give a complete feel for the flavor of the race.


Enjoy.


The Half-Orc

http://i.imgur.com/ADzdRl.jpg

"Half-orcs? You know why we call them the sangavido instead? Because nothing so incredibly strong, so ferocious on the battlefield, and so graceful in its killing could ever come from a race as pathetic as humans or as clumsy as orcs. In the sangavido, the gods of war found their champions. And you should know sangavido translates to bloodthirsty in our tongue." -A goliath warrior describing half-orcs.

Half-orcs are a dark, lonely race, born only from the plunders of war. Invariably, their orc parent is the lowest of the low to have raped a human and their human parent is...well, dead. Half-orcs grow up pariahs in orc society, despised by the gods, despised by their parent, and despised by their society. But this fundamental loneliness has made the half-orcs strong. They've begun breeding among themselves, fighting the orcs, and even giving themselves a unique name: the sangavido, which translates to the bloodthirsty in the goliath's language. Both humanity and the orcs are watching this newfound race with apprehension, fearful that one day the half-orcs may grow to usurp them both.

Personality: Half-orcs are ponderous but strong, remote but deadly. Completely at center with themselves, half-orcs nontheless rarely even speak with anyone else. When they do, they almost never say more then a word or so, and they don't beat around the bush. In combat, half-orcs become even more inwardly focused, but this translates to a ruthlessly efficient combat style. Half-orcs are not like orcs, who scream and enter bloodthirsty frenzies. They cut you down, then move on.

Physical Description: Physically, half-orcs look like leaner versions of orcs. They rarely inherit the orc tusks, and when they do they have little more than stubs. Instead of having a greenish tint their skin their pigment is usually a shade of light grey. Most people are more taken by the half-orc's eyes more than anything else though, which are always brooding, always observing, and always lonely.

Relations: Half-orcs are outcasts. All races either fear or despise them, and often it's both. Orcs see half-orcs as too weak to bear the name "orc," while humans will usually readily admit the fear of half-orcs they possess. To them and to elves, half-orcs are just more intelligent orcs. While this couldn't be farther from the truth, it has led many people, especially elves, to attack half-orcs on sight, unprovoked.

Alignment: Most half-orcs are lawful neutral or true neutral, since many of them find that the best way to deal with their isolation is to make everything in their lives orderly. Structured. An onlooker might call it sad. Their loneliness rarely translates to vindictiveness, although when it does it can be terrible to behold.

Half-Orc Lands: Half-orcs have no lands to call their own. When in the lands of their orc ancestors they are reviled, and in the lands of humans they are reviled. Elves fear them, and rightfully so, while dwarves, gnomes, and halflings have been tortured too long by orcs to even try to understand their hybrid offspring.

Religion: Half-orcs despise the gods, wondering in the farthest recesses of their subconscious why the gods would allow the half-orcs to even exist. Half-orcs question the worth of their existence on a daily basis, and this mentality has led most half-orcs to hate the gods.

Language: Half-orcs speak the languages of both their ancestors, and a surprising number of them enjoy learning other languages as it helps them understand what they, in their most pessimistic moods, view as the more "complete" races.

Adventurers: Half-orcs adventure to escape it all. The racists, the bias of society, the orcs calling them weak, the damn gods! Half-orcs will take refuge in adventure, and with their fellows, whom they can only hope will be understanding of them...

Half-Orc Racial Traits

+2 Strength, -2 Charisma. Half-orcs are extremely strong, although they only have the same brute force as their orc ancestors when they enter a battle trance (see below). However, their withdrawn personalities and orc ancestry in general makes them hard to get along with.
Medium. As medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties based on size.
Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet.
+2 racial bonus on all Intimidate checks.
Tough Guy: When a half-orc uses Intimidate he adds his strength bonus, not his charisma bonuses to his skill checks.
Battle Trance: A half-orc can search within himself to find all of the anger he's built up, all of desperation and loneliness, and release it not as a howling rage but with almost psychic focus. Once per day a half-orc can use Ki Frenzy as a sohei. If he takes levels in a class that would grant him the ki frenzy ability he gains an additional daily use of it.
2 bonus skill points at 1st level. Half-orcs are quite versatile, but not as flexible as humans.
Half-orcs gain Darkvision 60 feet.
Automatic Languages: Common, Orc. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Sohei.

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 12:43 AM
Reserved for some notes on this race, paragon class, and maybe a PrC :smallwink:

The Half-Orc Sohei Flavor (It's not sohei flavor!)

The vision of the half-orc in combat I was aiming for was a badass, totally focused warrior cutting through enemies like a scythe through grain. He's not screaming his head off like an idiot. So no, he's not actually using his ki or whatever D&D tries to justify that ability with. He's just become incredibly focused and is drawing upon all of his rage and loneliness...but doing it without losing control. Considering doing a slight sohei fix just for this race (maybe substitution levels).


Half-Orc Paragon
http://i.imgur.com/SYSoT.png

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Half-orc paragon's have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Strength and wisdom are the most important abilities for a half-orc paragon, as he is a front line fighter who often relies on his battle trance ability. A high dexterity is also important since he's only proficient with light armor, and a high constitution not only makes him hardier but also keeps his battle trance going for longer.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Hit Die: d10
Starting Age: As fighter.
Starting Gold: As druid.

Class Skills
Much like a human paragon, a half-oc paragon can select any 10 skills to be considered class skills for paragon levels.

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Half-Orc Paragon
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Fighter Bonus Feat, Divided Ancestry

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Batte Trance 2/day

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|Ability Boost (+2 Wisdom)[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the half-orc paragon.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The half-orc paragon is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and light armor.

Divided Ancestry: Unlike other racial paragons, half-orcs can take levels in more than one racial paragon class. After gaining at least one level as a half-orc paragon, a character can take either human paragon levels or orc paragon levels (but not both).

Fighter Bonus Feat: At 1st level the half-orc paragon receives a bonus feat drawn from the fighter bonus feat list.

Battle Trance: At 2nd level the half-orc paragon gets an extra use of his battle trance racial ability. This stacks with any uses of ki frenzy he gains from later (or earlier) levels in the sohei base class.

Ability Boost: At 3rd level the half-orc paragon gets a +2 bonus to wisdom.


Half-Orc Substitution Levels

Half-orc Sohei
http://www.mortalonline.com/files/races/HalfOrcInText.jpg


Hit Dice: d10.
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Iaijutsu Focus, Jump, Sense Motive, Survival, Swim, Tumble.

Half-Orc Sohei Substitution Levels
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|True Warrior, Battle Trances

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|Remain Conscious, Strength of Mind, Unerring Edge

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|Evasion[/table]

True Warrior:A half-orc sohei who uses the substitution levels does not gain spells. However, instead of a medium base attack progression, the half-orc sohei has a a BAB equal to his HD (as a fighter).

Battle Trances: While mechanically identical, a half-orcs equivalent to kifrenzy is not driven by the abstract idea of ki, but rather by an incredibly focused rage. At 1st level he has 1 daily use of this ability from class levels (which stacks with the 1/day racial use and the additional use from racial paragon levels), and it advances normally (maximum 6/day at 19th level).

Unerring Edge: At 5th level a half-orc sohei receives the ability to cast dispel magic a number of times per day equal to his wisdom modifier. However, the dispel can only be cast when he hits something with an attack while in a battle trance. So, if he hit a flying creature with an arrow or a magical wall with a sword he could attempt to dispel it, but he couldn't dispel a fireball. This ability can be used to "banish" summoned creatures. The half-orc sohei's CL is equal to 1/2 his class levels plus his wisdom modifier.

Evasion: At 9th level instead of receiving Mettle a half-orc sohei gets the evasion ability, like a rogue.

Designer's Notes on Substitution LevelsThe half-orc sohei is a lot stronger than a normal sohei. That is completely intentional. Flavor wise, the sohei is nice, but mechanically speaking it's a high Tier 5. Only slightly above the fighter, really. I hope my changes brought it up to a low Tier 3, since with the Battle Trance he can use flurry of blows with a full BAB progression (hopefully avoiding the infamous flurry of misses). The skills also received some major changes, but they're the change I'm the most confident about.

JackMage666
2012-04-05, 02:39 AM
Half-Orc Racial Traits

+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Half-orcs are extremely strong and incredibly observant. However, their withdrawn personalities and orc ancestry in general makes them hard to get along with.
Medium. As medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties based on size.
Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet.
+2 racial bonus on all Intimidate checks
Battle Trance: A half-orc can search within himself to find all of the anger he's built up, all of desperation and loneliness, and release it not as a howling rage but with almost psychic focus. Once per day a half-orc can use Ki Frenzy as a sohei. If he takes levels in a class that would grant him the ki frenzy ability he gains an additional daily use of it.
2 bonus skill points at 1st level. Half-orcs are quite versatile, but not as flexible as humans.
Half-orcs gain Darkvision 60 feet.
Automatic Languages: Common, Orc. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Sohei.


I'm not sure what the Sohei is, so it's hard to evaluate the ability, but since it's a 1/daily class ability, it opens up a few Feats and PrCs without having touch the class as well. I'm guess it's similar to the Barbarian's rage (mechanically speaking.)

I'd tag in that they use Str for their Intimidate checks rather than Cha. Intimidate is already pretty meh as a skill, and there should be some points for having tusks and rippling muscles. It makes more sense for a Half-Orc to flex his brawn than his tongue when threatening folks, and functionally they only get a +1 to the skill as is (since they take a -1 with the reduced Cha)

It is a +1 LA right now, or +0 LA in Pathfinder. Given, it's a weak +1 LA, but it gives a bonus to Wisdom (one of the top 2 ability scores, on par with Int) and Str (useful for any melee character) while dumping Cha (which is the most commonly dumped stat, only being extremely useful for Spontaneous Arcane Casters) If you don't care about turning, you've got a VERY good base for a Cleric (and even so, the -2 Cha is a minor roadbump) or Druid. Any melee class would welcome the +2 Wis/-2 Cha, because it gives you a +1 Will, and -1 to a bunch of skills you could care less about because you're a fighter.

If you want to drop it to +0 LA, just nix the Wis bonus. Or keep it, if it's balanced to Pathfinder races.

The Mentalist
2012-04-05, 02:41 AM
It's a strong LA 0 I'd say, It looks like a pretty amazing ClericZilla

I do like the flavor and the Battle Trance instead of Rage.

Maybe feats to make them more Orcish/Human

For example:

Pronounced Tusks [Racial, Orc]
Pre Reqs: Orc, Half-Orc, (Hobgoblin?)
Benefits: You gain a Gore attack as normal for your size.
Special: You may take this feat a second time, it increases your gore damage by 1 size category

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 11:00 AM
Hmmm I hadn't really thought about this being a cleric race, but now that you guys mention it it's a little high on the LA 0 range...I can't really think of how to change it though...light sensitivity as a true orc?

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 11:04 AM
I'm not sure what the Sohei is, so it's hard to evaluate the ability, but since it's a 1/daily class ability, it opens up a few Feats and PrCs without having touch the class as well. I'm guess it's similar to the Barbarian's rage (mechanically speaking.)

I'd tag in that they use Str for their Intimidate checks rather than Cha. Intimidate is already pretty meh as a skill, and there should be some points for having tusks and rippling muscles. It makes more sense for a Half-Orc to flex his brawn than his tongue when threatening folks, and functionally they only get a +1 to the skill as is (since they take a -1 with the reduced Cha)

It is a +1 LA right now, or +0 LA in Pathfinder. Given, it's a weak +1 LA, but it gives a bonus to Wisdom (one of the top 2 ability scores, on par with Int) and Str (useful for any melee character) while dumping Cha (which is the most commonly dumped stat, only being extremely useful for Spontaneous Arcane Casters) If you don't care about turning, you've got a VERY good base for a Cleric (and even so, the -2 Cha is a minor roadbump) or Druid. Any melee class would welcome the +2 Wis/-2 Cha, because it gives you a +1 Will, and -1 to a bunch of skills you could care less about because you're a fighter.

If you want to drop it to +0 LA, just nix the Wis bonus. Or keep it, if it's balanced to Pathfinder races.

The ki frenzy ability is +2 strength and dexterity, +10 speed, and the ability to make a flurry of blows (-2 on each additional attack). It has the same restrictions on concentration as the rage (e.g. no spells while frenzying) and it lasts for 3 rounds + constitution modifier. -2 Strength and dexterity at the end of the frenzy. It's balanced by the fact that the sohei has a medium BA progression though. I need to do a fix of it...

I've decided to nix the wisdom bonus though. I like how it fits in flavor wise, but it makes the half-orc too tempting to take for clerics.

EDIT: I'm adding the +2 wisdom at the 3rd level of racial paragon. :smallsmile:

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 05:51 PM
Updates:

Added in the paragon class, which provides the old wisdom bonus (which was removed from the base race).

Added in sohei substitution levels to adjust the flavor. Also, made it a lot stronger (sohei is only like low Tier 4).

Getting ready to add in some racial feats!

Ziegander
2012-04-05, 06:03 PM
Okay, it's official, this is completely amazing. This... is everything I could've wanted. At first I wasn't sure how I felt about it, but then I remembered what Ki Frenzy did, and I was immediately in love. Now that the Wisdom bonus has been nixed in favor of Str for Intimidate, this thing is just a match made in heaven.

I'm not sure how I feel about the, "I'm sad and angry and lonely inside" fluff, seems very angsty to me, and I'm not big on angst, but the mechanics are very, very solid. I'm definitely using this in my game this Sunday.

EDIT: Oh! But we need class skills for the Half-Orc Paragon! Maybe allow it to choose any ten skills as class skills, as the Human Paragon?

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 06:11 PM
Okay, it's official, this is completely amazing. This... is everything I could've wanted. At first I wasn't sure how I felt about it, but then I remembered what Ki Frenzy did, and I was immediately in love. Now that the Wisdom bonus has been nixed in favor of Str for Intimidate, this thing is just a match made in heaven.

I'm not sure how I feel about the, "I'm sad and angry and lonely inside" fluff, seems very angsty to me, and I'm not big on angst, but the mechanics are very, very solid. I'm definitely using this in my game his Sunday.

EDIT: Oh! But we need class skills for the Half-Orc Paragon! Maybe allow it to choose any ten skills as class skills, as the Human Paragon?

For the skills I think that's a great idea! I'll put it in in a few.

With the angst, what I was trying to get across wasn't so much an emo, "I'm sad angry and lonely and I hate it" thing, but rather a "I was sad and angry, but now I'm just a peace because everyone else is dead" :belkar: mentality.

Glad you like it :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Madara
2012-04-05, 06:28 PM
Definitely a badass. I love what you've done with the half-orc. I might be biased because I was listening to epic music while reading. :smallbiggrin:

Ziegander
2012-04-05, 06:29 PM
Half-Orc Paragon 2/Whirl Pounce Barb 1

Combat Reflexes, Two-Weapon FightingB, Extra Rage

Can you say, blender? That's up to three attacks per round at 1st level (yes, at -4 to hit, lol), and up to four attacks per round on a charge at 3rd level (at -6 to hit, offset back to -4 by the +2 from charging).

So, let's assume a 20 Str to start with, then +2 from Ki Frenzy, at 1st level, we're looking at a +3 to hit with three attacks during Ki Frenzy, and at 3rd level, if we ragepounce, we move all the way up to 26 Str for an attack bonus, with four attacks, all at +7 to hit. That's pretty cool. Not a huge attack bonus, but for all of those attacks, it's not bad at all. The main-handed attacks, assuming handaxes, come in at 1d6+8 damage each, and the off-hand is still 1d6+4. At 3rd, if they all hit that's an average of 42 damage with a single action. :)

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 06:35 PM
Definitely a badass. I love what you've done with the half-orc. I might be biased because I was listening to epic music while reading. :smallbiggrin:

haha thanks :smallsmile:


Half-Orc Paragon 2/Whirl Pounce Barb 1

Combat Reflexes, Two-Weapon FightingB, Extra Rage

Can you say, blender? That's up to three attacks per round at 1st level (yes, at -4 to hit, lol), and up to four attacks per round on a charge at 3rd level (at -6 to hit, offset back to -4 by the +2 from charging).

So, let's assume a 20 Str to start with, then +2 from Ki Frenzy, at 1st level, we're looking at a +3 to hit with three attacks during Ki Frenzy, and at 3rd level, if we ragepounce, we move all the way up to 26 Str for an attack bonus, with four attacks, all at +7 to hit. That's pretty cool. Not a huge attack bonus, but for all of those attacks, it's not bad at all. The main-handed attacks, assuming handaxes, come in at 1d6+8 damage each, and the off-hand is still 1d6+4. At 3rd, if they all hit that's an average of 42 damage with a single action. :)

Whoa.

Honestly, that doesn't really worry me. I'm glad you can optimize this race like that :smallbiggrin: . The sort of unstoppable blender was really what I was aiming for. The switch from wild barbarian to chill sohei was just because I felt like if I made the favored class barbarian it'd be a step back towards the stupid brute. Glad you love it!

Ziegander
2012-04-05, 06:48 PM
Oh, favored class Sohei, definitely makes a lot of sense, but I do love the raw power possible in mixing Ki Frenzy + Whirling Frenzy. Gotta love four attacks per round at 3rd level!

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 06:50 PM
That is pretty nasty :smallcool:

Also, the paragon levels give you 2 daily uses of the battle trance...which is pretty much all you'll really need.

Lappy9001
2012-04-05, 07:22 PM
This is really, really good. One of the best I've seen. The fluff and crunch are so perfectly intertwined, it makes the overall effect just excellent.

Superb work! :smallcool:

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 07:26 PM
This is really, really good. One of the best I've seen. The fluff and crunch are so perfectly intertwined, it makes the overall effect just excellent.

Superb work! :smallcool:

That means a lot. Seriously, thank you. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 07:45 PM
Is it worth redoing this in a Races of X format? That'd expand upon your options a lot...

Ziegander
2012-04-05, 07:48 PM
Is it worth redoing this in a Races of X format? That'd expand upon your options a lot...

Do you mean like Races of the Orc? If so... yes. I would help you out even if you're talking about potentially writing up enough material for a whole splatbook to rival Races of Stone and Races of the Dragon. I'm good for feats, that's for sure.

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 07:56 PM
Do you mean like Races of the Orc? If so... yes. I would help you out even if you're talking about potentially writing up enough material for a whole splatbook to rival Races of Stone and Races of the Dragon. I'm good for feats, that's for sure.

It would be like a chapter of Races of Destiny, where you give an in depth description of a race that's mostly fluff but does have deities and sample characters, then a second part with PrCs, feats, and so on. If you could make feats, that'd be awesome :smallsmile:

Ziegander
2012-04-05, 08:29 PM
Your Orc race homebrew has got me thinking up a whole Orc-based nation for the campaign setting I'm about to run this Sunday. It was still in flux, but I was planning on having Orcs be a major component anyway. Now, with all of your awesome half-orc races, I'm definitely going to use both this and the Voldur (I'm going to have a Voldur Katana Savant be bodyguard to one of the 1st major NPCs).

I have somewhat of a soft spot for homebrewing feats. I'm a big fan. :)

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 08:39 PM
Your Orc race homebrew has got me thinking up a whole Orc-based nation for the campaign setting I'm about to run this Sunday. It was still in flux, but I was planning on having Orcs be a major component anyway. Now, with all of your awesome half-orc races, I'm definitely going to use both this and the Voldur (I'm going to have a Voldur Katana Savant be bodyguard to one of the 1st major NPCs).

I have somewhat of a soft spot for homebrewing feats. I'm a big fan. :)

Great :smallsmile: I'm glad you like it so much, and I'd really like to get this fix to as many people as possible.

Beginning work on the basics for the handbook in the next few hours. If you could PM me your ideas for feats that'd be great.

Steward
2012-04-05, 09:10 PM
Wow, you made half-orcs interesting! I've always felt that half-orcs are kind of "dashed off". They did get more compelling in "Races of Destiny" but nothing as awesome as what you have here!

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 09:19 PM
Wow, you made half-orcs interesting! I've always felt that half-orcs are kind of "dashed off". They did get more compelling in "Races of Destiny" but nothing as awesome as what you have here!

Wow...I really appreciate these compliments guys! It's really motivating, actually :smallsmile:

Any further suggestions for the race? I'm officially doing an in-depth Races of Destiny style handbook for them.

Madara
2012-04-05, 09:32 PM
half-orc warlock sub levels? :smallsmile:

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 10:22 PM
Ask, and you shall receive.


The Half Orc Warlock
http://i.imgur.com/245UCl.jpg?1

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Half orc warlock's have the following game statistics.
Abilities: A brief description of what ability scores are important to your class.
Alignment: Any nongood. This replaces the usual alignment restrictions for warlocks. Half-orc warlocks can be lawful neutral or true neutral.
Hit Die: d8.
Starting Age: As ranger.
Starting Gold: As druid.

Class Skills
The half-orc warlock's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Disguise, Iaijutsu Focus, Intimidate, Jump, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device.

Skill Points at First Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

Half-Orc Warlock Substitution Levels
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Eldritch Blast 1d6, invocation (least), Insightful Power.

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Forceful Power, Strength Within

12th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+8|Battle Striker[/table]

Insightful Power:Half-orc warlocks use their wisdom bonus wherever a normal warlock would use his charisma with his class abilities. Therefore, wisdom is used to calculate the save DCs for his invocations. In addition, a half-orc warlock can use the iaijutsu focus feat in conjunction with his eldritch blast if the enemy he is attacking is within 30 feet (and is flat footed, as per the normal requirements of using iaijutsu focus).

Forceful Power: At 4th level the half-orc warlock adds his wisdom modifier to the damage dealt by his eldritch blast.

Strength Within: At 4th level the half-orc warlock can use invocations while in a battle trance. In addition, if he makes an eldritch blast while in a battle trance he adds both his wisdom (as per the forceful power ability) and his strength modifiers to the damage dealt.

Battle Striker: At 12th level a half-orc warlock deals an additional 1d6 points of damage if he makes an eldritch blast while using a battle trance.

[color=red]Editors NotesThe half-orc warlock is probably a little bit weaker than the normal warlock. He can deal slightly more damage, and he gets some cool modifiers, but he can't craft his own magic items. That's a big hit, but I just didn't think it fit with the flavor of the half-orc I've made. I might strengthen these substitution levels...give him something like the "flicker" mystery while in a battle trance. Also, since I'm adding in battle trance reliant abilities, this half-orc warlock might get an additional use or two of the battle trance...

Blisstake
2012-04-05, 10:29 PM
I'd love to comment, but... I've never actually heard of the Sohei before, so I have no idea what Ki Frenzy does. Since you probably can't repeat it here (non-OGL or whatever), could you tell me what book the Sohei is from?

Empedocles
2012-04-05, 10:34 PM
I'd love to comment, but... I've never actually heard of the Sohei before, so I have no idea what Ki Frenzy does. Since you probably can't repeat it here (non-OGL or whatever), could you tell me what book the Sohei is from?

(it's from the 3.0 Oriental Adventures) It grants +2 str and dex, +10 feet speed, and the flurry of blows ability (extra attacks, all attacks at a -2 penalty). He has the same restrictions on skills and spells as a barbarian's rage, and it lasts for 3 rounds + constitution modifier. At the end, the half-orc suffers a -2 strength, -2 dexterity, and can't charge or run (he's fatigued). Also, it can only be activated 1/encounter even with additional uses.

Wyntonian
2012-04-05, 11:57 PM
Dude, this makes me wish I had orcs in my setting, just so I could include this. This is remarkable. Let me say, I'll be keeping an eye on you and your future work.

Son of a gun, I'd love to play one of these.

Empedocles
2012-04-06, 12:21 AM
Dude, this makes me wish I had orcs in my setting, just so I could include this. This is remarkable. Let me say, I'll be keeping an eye on you and your future work.

Son of a gun, I'd love to play one of these.

Thanks! Do you want suggestions for adapting it? Also, if you like this check out the voldur in my signature. IMO it actually came out about as cool as this...

Empedocles
2012-04-06, 01:55 AM
Racial feats. You know you love 'em.

Half-Orc Racial Feats

Extra Battle Trance
Prerequisites: Half-orc, BA +3.
Benefit: As the name suggests, this ability gives a half-orc an extra use of his battle trance ability.
Special: This feat can only be taken once.

Tusks Like Daddy
Much to mommy and daddy's delight, you have really big tusks!
Prerequisites: Orc or Half-Orc.
Benefit: You get a gore attack that deals 1d8 points of damage.
Special: You can only take this feat at level one.

More coming...I need inspiration.

LrdoftheRngs
2012-04-06, 02:16 AM
I like the feel of this, but the one part I call into question is the hating gods part. I think that a race of outcasts that have made a name for themselves might be very well suited to worshiping a wanderer or outcast god, kind of looking at them like a divine kindred spirit. I really like the idea of a calm rage, and think it fits very nicely with what you have made of this race so far. Maybe flesh out the whole "may grow to usurp them both" thing a little more, that could result in some pretty cool roleplaying opportunities. All in all, great overhaul, and it looks like it could be really fun to play!

Empedocles
2012-04-06, 02:18 AM
When I do the expanded "Races of" thing, I'll go into greater detail about the gods. It's flavor I like, but it was originally put in there for mechanical reasons: the half-orc also had a bonus to wisdom, so I wanted to avoid people using this as a clerical race. As is now though, that aspect needs to be expanded upon. Thanks :smallbiggrin:

LrdoftheRngs
2012-04-06, 02:30 AM
Also, when I was first reading through everything, I misread "Paragon" as "Paladin". That would actually make a very interesting combination with this new interpretation, and would certainly be cool for substitution levels. Plus, it is just so totally the opposite of the traditional half-orc, and this race seems to be all about flipping that stereotype on its head.

Empedocles
2012-04-06, 02:35 AM
Also, when I was first reading through everything, I misread "Paragon" as "Paladin". That would actually make a very interesting combination with this new interpretation, and would certainly be cool for substitution levels. Plus, it is just so totally the opposite of the traditional half-orc, and this race seems to be all about flipping that stereotype on its head.

Hmmm. Interesting idea. That's definitely worth substitution levels, although it's still going to be rare I think. This half-orc is still brutal and still pretty ruthless, so a paladin would be very unusual...I might also take the Complete Warrior's paladin when I do this, since that doesn't have any spells (and is therefore much less MAD also).

Zale
2012-04-06, 02:55 AM
Awesome. Simply Awesome.

Nice mechanics, great fluff.

Way to go.

Wyntonian
2012-04-06, 10:01 AM
Thanks! Do you want suggestions for adapting it?

That would be nice. Could it work as a Goliath-Human hybrid? I have Goliaths, but no orcs.

Or maybe I could just offer this as an alternative stat-thing. Like, playing a goliath fluff-wise, but using these stats rather than those of a goliath. It would be nice to be able to avoid having LA.

Empedocles
2012-04-06, 10:13 AM
That would be nice. Could it work as a Goliath-Human hybrid? I have Goliaths, but no orcs.

Or maybe I could just offer this as an alternative stat-thing. Like, playing a goliath fluff-wise, but using these stats rather than those of a goliath. It would be nice to be able to avoid having LA.

Alright, if the goliath thing works for you go for it. You could also run them as a completely separate race (the sangavido, or something that doesn't mean bloodthirsty in esperanto :smallwink:) who live in some sort of remote, harsh conditions: a desert, jungle, or cold mountain would all be fine.

Empedocles
2012-04-06, 12:05 PM
Okay, half-orc paladin substitution levels as requested. I'm thinking that for his 4th and final set of sub. levels, I could do warblade? Any suggestions would be appreciated.


The Half-Orc Paladin

http://i.imgur.com/Hn5TDl.jpg

"Us? What do you know about us? That we are violent? That we are strong? Or only that we are evil? You know nothing about us." Faldon, a half-orc paladin as he prepares to fight an elven cleric of Hextor.

Hit Die: d10

Class Skills
The half-orc paladin's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Iaijutsu Focus, Intimidate, Ride, Sense Motive, Survival, Tumble, and Use Rope.

Skill Points at Level: 4 + Int modifier (x4 at 1st level). The half-orc paladin is naturally more versatile and skillful than an average paladin.

CLASS NAME
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|I Use a Sword, detect evil, smite evil 1/day.

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+2|Remove disease 1/week, To Hades With Your Spells.

12th|
+12|
+8|
+8|
+4|Remove disease 3/week, True Strike[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Half-orc paladins are proficient with simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armor, and with shields (but not tower shields).

I Use a Sword: A half-orc paladin never learns spells. It is automatically considered to have taken the Variant Paladin on page 13 of Complete Warrior. In addition, a half-orc paladin gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level.

To Hades With Your Spells: Anything a half-orc paladin hits with a smite attack is automatically targeted with a dispel magic (CL is equal to class levels).

True Strike: At 12th level a half-orc paladin can, once per day, cast true strike as a swift action with a caster level equal to his class levels. He gains an additional use of this ability at 16th and 20th level.

Designer's NotesThe main thing I was trying to get at with these substitutions levels was the MADness of the paladin. There's no spellcasting and more skill points, which was the simplest fix I could think of. This paladin might still be a little bit weaker than a normal paladin, or at the very least less versatile.

ericgrau
2012-04-06, 12:19 PM
IMO the problem is that feats became more powerful the more books they added to the PHB. So the human bonus feat goes from being more versatile but weaker than +2 str, to flat out stronger and more versatile. Assuming the gaming group allows all those books and feats (many do), what the half-orc needs is a matching boost to power to compensate for that. I think you got it about right.

Empedocles
2012-04-06, 03:03 PM
IMO the problem is that feats became more powerful the more books they added to the PHB. So the human bonus feat goes from being more versatile but weaker than +2 str, to flat out stronger and more versatile. Assuming the gaming group allows all those books and feats (many do), what the half-orc needs is a matching boost to power to compensate for that. I think you got it about right.

I agree, and that was more or less the logic behind the battle trance (and the flavor).

Empedocles
2012-04-06, 07:46 PM
PEACH for the sub levels? :smallsmile:

Empedocles
2012-04-07, 01:02 PM
Half-Orc Totemist

http://i.imgur.com/porr3.jpg

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Half-orc totemist's have the following game statistics.
Hit Die: d8
Alignment: Any.
Starting Age: As ranger.
Starting Gold: As druid.

Class Skills
The half-orc totemist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
As a Totemist, with the following changes: A half-orc totemist does not receive knowledge (arcana) as a class skill, but he can use intimidate as a class skill.

Half-Orc Totemist
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0|Illiteracy, focused soulmelding

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1|Totem's Strength

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Chakra Binds (crown, feet, hands), Animal Companion[/table]

Focused Soulmelding: A half-orc totemist can continue to use his soulmelds even while using a battle trance. They only gain the wild empathy ability at 2nd level.

Totem's Strength: At 3rd level whenever a totemist binds a soulmeld to his totem chakra he receives a +2 bonus to dexterity. This ability replaces Totem's Protection.

Animal Companion: At 5th level a half-orc totemist gains an animal companion as a druid of his class levels minus 4. He does not gains the rebind totem chakra ability.

Ziegander
2012-04-07, 03:57 PM
The Totemist is already quite a strong class, and you're giving a now strong race substitution levels with it that are basically strictly better at every level, and that sometimes scale. To help balance it, I would say that a Half-Orc Totemist that chooses the Animal Companion feature never gets Rebind Totem uses per day since the Animal Companion will continue to get stronger as he gains levels.

Now then, at work today I was getting ideas for some feats. I'll PM you some of them later. Also, I have another idea for an Orc-Half race: Half Orc/Half Yuan-Ti (http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/6/60/4e_yuan-ti.jpg).

Empedocles
2012-04-07, 08:22 PM
The Totemist is already quite a strong class, and you're giving a now strong race substitution levels with it that are basically strictly better at every level, and that sometimes scale. To help balance it, I would say that a Half-Orc Totemist that chooses the Animal Companion feature never gets Rebind Totem uses per day since the Animal Companion will continue to get stronger as he gains levels.

Now then, at work today I was getting ideas for some feats. I'll PM you some of them later. Also, I have another idea for an Orc-Half race: Half Orc/Half Yuan-Ti (http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/6/60/4e_yuan-ti.jpg).

Yeah...I thought of a ton of benefits to give them, but not a whole lot of drawbacks...I'll take a 2nd look in a little bit...but for now (drum roll, epic music) half-orc yuan-ti coming up!

Empedocles
2012-04-07, 09:07 PM
The "kulebran" are now in the actual making stages. The hard parts, finding an image and a name, are over :smallsmile:

Ziegander
2012-04-07, 09:18 PM
Okay, so I meant to send you a PM earlier. I don't know what happened, but it apparently was never sent? Anyway, here's the feat I sent you:

Walk Hard
Prerequisite: Rage (or similar ability) 1/day
Benefit: As long as you have unspent uses of Rage or a similar ability for the day, you gain an enhancement bonus to all speeds equal to +10ft per use.

And the idea would be that there would be a subtype of feat called [Inner Fury] with the special rule that for all [Inner Fury] feats you count any Rage (or similar ability) that you currently benefit from as "unspent" to determine your benefits from [Inner Fury] feats. It would be quite easy to design several feats like this. They are inspired by your Half-Orc race, but shouldn't be restricted to the Half-Orc in my opinion. Thoughts?

Daverin
2012-04-07, 09:27 PM
Here to add another vote to the awesomeness of this remake; it makes me, wait for it... actually want to play a half-orc (GASP!) :smalltongue:

I particularly like the use of the Sohei as a sort of indicator for what their martial mentality is. It actually is one that I don't feel is covered well by the official PC races, so kudos for doing that!

Empedocles
2012-04-07, 09:36 PM
Here to add another vote to the awesomeness of this remake; it makes me, wait for it... actually want to play a half-orc (GASP!) :smalltongue:

I particularly like the use of the Sohei as a sort of indicator for what their martial mentality is. It actually is one that I don't feel is covered well by the official PC races, so kudos for doing that!

Thanks! It's encouraging to get compliments like this...especially when my last homebrew came out horribly :smallannoyed:

@Ziegander I'm going to wait on the half-orc yuan-ti. It's a neat idea, but I'm having trouble thinking of the sort of niche I want it to fill. I do feel like some homebrewing should happen tonight...I'm just lacking inspiration :smallfrown:

Empedocles
2012-04-08, 11:02 AM
Now then, at work today I was getting ideas for some feats. I'll PM you some of them later. Also, I have another idea for an Orc-Half race: Half Orc/Half Yuan-Ti (http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/6/60/4e_yuan-ti.jpg).

Having trouble with the half-orc yuan-ti, but I made a serpent-like human (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13034399#post13034399) in the meantime :smallbiggrin:

EdroGrimshell
2012-04-08, 07:15 PM
I notice you've been doing mainly half-orcs, how about other hybrids, like half-elves? I'd love to see a half-elf redux and an elf/zshar hybrid.

For another half-orc, you haven't done an orc/dwarf hybrid.

Empedocles
2012-04-08, 08:13 PM
I notice you've been doing mainly half-orcs, how about other hybrids, like half-elves? I'd love to see a half-elf redux and an elf/zshar hybrid.

For another half-orc, you haven't done an orc/dwarf hybrid.

I thought about half-orc dwarves...and I couldn't imagine it not being silly.

Any half-elf races might actually require an elf and half-elf human rewrite, but then again I seem to be getting positive feedback on my racial rewrites so that might not be a bad idea.

Sneaky Weasel
2012-04-09, 01:00 AM
Oh, yes. This is more like it! You have done three awesome things with this. One, you have made the half-orc wizard a viable character. Two, you have made the very cool but horribly ineffective Sohei class playable. Three, you have made me actually want to play a half-orc. I've tried in the past, but the PHB version just makes me want to cry. This one makes me want to jump in the air and yell. Awesome.
I very much like the battle trance ability, and I'm very glad it doesn't have a penalty to Intelligence. Fluffwise, it's even more awesome. You have done excellent work here. Keep it up, for godssakes! This is the sort of thing that made me want to play DnD in the first place!

Empedocles
2012-04-09, 01:14 AM
Oh, yes. This is more like it! You have done three awesome things with this. One, you have made the half-orc wizard a viable character. Two, you have made the very cool but horribly ineffective Sohei class playable. Three, you have made me actually want to play a half-orc. I've tried in the past, but the PHB version just makes me want to cry. This one makes me want to jump in the air and yell. Awesome.
I very much like the battle trance ability, and I'm very glad it doesn't have a penalty to Intelligence. Fluffwise, it's even more awesome. You have done excellent work here. Keep it up, for godssakes! This is the sort of thing that made me want to play DnD in the first place!

Whoa :biggrin:

You just made my day, which is saying something since it's like 2 AM where I am. I really, really appreciate it!

Empedocles
2012-04-11, 07:59 PM
I notice you've been doing mainly half-orcs, how about other hybrids, like half-elves? I'd love to see a half-elf redux and an elf/zshar hybrid.

For another half-orc, you haven't done an orc/dwarf hybrid.

Redoing the half-elf now since my creative juices for more obscure hybrids have been utterly dried out :smallfrown:

Ziegander
2012-04-11, 08:01 PM
I'm really excited to see where you go with the Half-Elf. Once you've remade a lot of races we definitely need to get to work on new racial feats and revised PrCs.

Imagine a Races of D&D splatbook with your race rewrites, a bunch of awesome Paragon classes, and tons of new racial feats. Love it.

Empedocles
2012-04-11, 08:07 PM
I'm really excited to see where you go with the Half-Elf. Once you've remade a lot of races we definitely need to get to work on new racial feats and revised PrCs.

Imagine a Races of D&D splatbook with your race rewrites, a bunch of awesome Paragon classes, and tons of new racial feats. Love it.

Man. It's awesome someone likes this enough to want to do that. I'm all for it :smallbiggrin:

Empedocles
2012-04-11, 09:12 PM
check out my half elf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239464) :smallbiggrin:

Not sure if you guys will like it...:smalleek:

willpell
2012-04-16, 12:49 AM
Just to nitpick, you say half-orcs are grey-skinned instead of green-skinned like orcs, but D&D's orcs were never green-skinned in the first place (not in the 3.0 monster manual at any rate), they were a somewhat darker gray than the half-orcs. I believe orcs being green is a Games Workshop invention, mostly for their Warhammer and WH40K universes, and of course the Warcraft franchise ran with that as well, but D&D's orcs are supposed to be based more than anything on Tolkien, and the LOTR orcs were always described as black- or gray-skinned.

Empedocles
2012-04-16, 12:52 AM
Just to nitpick, you say half-orcs are grey-skinned instead of green-skinned like orcs, but D&D's orcs were never green-skinned in the first place (not in the 3.0 monster manual at any rate), they were a somewhat darker gray than the half-orcs. I believe orcs being green is a Games Workshop invention, mostly for their Warhammer and WH40K universes, and of course the Warcraft franchise ran with that as well, but D&D's orcs are supposed to be based more than anything on Tolkien, and the LOTR orcs were always described as black- or gray-skinned.

In art, though, they're often depicted as having a greenish tint to their skin. Yes, the original MM orc is definitely gray but if you take a look online, or in the Races of Destiny...

The way I see it, orc skin color fluctuates between various hues with gray and green being the two opposite sides of the scale.

EDIT: Also, this particular half-orc is quite a ways away from a Tolkien orc...

willpell
2012-04-16, 03:00 AM
I noticed. I have no idea what a "sohei" is and this homebrew isn't to my personal preference, but I give you props for making a serious effort, and it's definitely cooler even to me than the as-written halforc.

jguy
2012-04-16, 11:43 AM
I like the mechanics and you have done a wonderful job when it comes to the racial substitution levels and the paragon class. Parts of your fluff are very nice but something just doesn't sit right with me. This sounds bad, but the best way I can describe them as is something out of a fanfiction.

Their whole race is that of lone, badasses with a chip on their shoulder that makes me picture them all as Clint Eastwood. Now a single Clint Eastwood is fine, what is not to like, but if they are -all- like that it kind of lessens the impact.

There just doesn't seem like there is much room for different kinds of personality for this race. I mean, by your description, they -all- are a product of rape and their mother is dead and everyone just hates them. Where do you go after that? Hard to have a good sense of humor, or have an odd hobby that isn't connected to killing or maiming. Anyone who played this kind of half-orc would all be playing the same character essentially, like the stereotype of Drow are they are like drizzt.

Empedocles
2012-04-16, 12:49 PM
I like the mechanics and you have done a wonderful job when it comes to the racial substitution levels and the paragon class. Parts of your fluff are very nice but something just doesn't sit right with me. This sounds bad, but the best way I can describe them as is something out of a fanfiction.

Their whole race is that of lone, badasses with a chip on their shoulder that makes me picture them all as Clint Eastwood. Now a single Clint Eastwood is fine, what is not to like, but if they are -all- like that it kind of lessens the impact.

There just doesn't seem like there is much room for different kinds of personality for this race. I mean, by your description, they -all- are a product of rape and their mother is dead and everyone just hates them. Where do you go after that? Hard to have a good sense of humor, or have an odd hobby that isn't connected to killing or maiming. Anyone who played this kind of half-orc would all be playing the same character essentially, like the stereotype of Drow are they are like drizzt.

Out of a fanfiction? That's harsh.

First of all, half-orcs (at least, this variety) are extremely rare as of now. It's not something you see all the time. Not only that, but the behaviors I described...are generalizations. Gnomes are described as merry tricksters, but there's nothing wrong with a gnome necromancer. Dwarves are gruff warriors, but everyone has taken a look at different ways of making a dwarf rune mage type.

The fluff is fluff, and it isn't restrictive. Not all drow need to be Drizzt either. One of my friends played a very succesful female drow demonbinder.

I do think you've brought up a valid point though. I'll think on it further.

jguy
2012-04-16, 03:08 PM
Yeah, I didn't mean it to come off as harsh as it did, I just couldn't think of a better word to describe it in my mind. Sorry 'bout that.

When I was referring to the people playing Drow as drizzt I didn't mean they all just did that because that is what drow are, I meant it as the stereotype is people wanting to play badass characters and drizzt is such easy inspiration. With these half-orc, they came almost premade with a backstory that will inspire much of the same kind of characters. A guy with a troubled passed that has a chip on shoulder, doesn't take crap from anyone, and is a total bamf.

I know fluff is fluff and not restrictive, but the fluff in this case is the entire point. Mechanically you have made an excellent replacement for the half-orc, I totally agree. My issue with the fluff is it doesn't seem to lend much wiggle room character or RP wise, to me anyway.

Empedocles
2012-04-16, 03:36 PM
When I was referring to the people playing Drow as drizzt I didn't mean they all just did that because that is what drow are, I meant it as the stereotype is people wanting to play badass characters and drizzt is such easy inspiration. With these half-orc, they came almost premade with a backstory that will inspire much of the same kind of characters. A guy with a troubled passed that has a chip on shoulder, doesn't take crap from anyone, and is a total bamf.

True, but that's largely unimaginative roleplaying, or you just wanted to be badass anyways and this works out well. Also, I disagree - and probably will end up agreeing to disagree - with you saying that the half-orc has an almost premade backstory. It's up to the player how much fluff from the description they want to use versus how inventive they wish to be.


I know fluff is fluff and not restrictive, but the fluff in this case is the entire point. Mechanically you have made an excellent replacement for the half-orc, I totally agree. My issue with the fluff is it doesn't seem to lend much wiggle room character or RP wise, to me anyway.

Well, see, the fluff isn't really the main point. It's certainly something I worked hard on, I am proud of, and personally feel fits the mechanics of this half-orc quite effectively. But, again, it's not the main point.

The main point of my half-orc overhall is to provide players with an old D&D archetype - the half-orc - while still making them want to play it and not just be stupid bruisers.

The point is to give players a sort of strong, "tanky" race that doesn't need to get illiteracy as a class feature to play to its racial strengths. The point is not to open up a wide variety of fantastical archetypes. This half-orc is specific. I accept that.

Now, that being said, if I want it to appeal to people or to be a viable race of a larger campaign setting, what you're saying needs to be taken into account. So I'll go ahead and ask you: what do you think the best method to fixing this would be, without loosing the overall flavor of this half-orc?

jguy
2012-04-16, 11:25 PM
I do have an idea that you might like, but seeing as how late it is when I read your response, I will be writing it up in word and trying to get it to you tomorrow. It takes into account how horrible the half-orc's beginnings are but it also includes two races you hadn't, or at least I didn't see. Halflings and Gnomes seem to be people who would embrace a race with such unfortunate beginnings that has done nothing wrong. I hope I can keep the badass feel to your orcs, because I really do enjoy much of what you have done.

Empedocles
2012-04-17, 08:24 PM
I do have an idea that you might like, but seeing as how late it is when I read your response, I will be writing it up in word and trying to get it to you tomorrow. It takes into account how horrible the half-orc's beginnings are but it also includes two races you hadn't, or at least I didn't see. Halflings and Gnomes seem to be people who would embrace a race with such unfortunate beginnings that has done nothing wrong. I hope I can keep the badass feel to your orcs, because I really do enjoy much of what you have done.

I appreciate it. Just keep in mind that I'm still going to try and preserve the flavor, possibly at the cost of allowing for broad archetypes and fluff as you complained.

Can't wait to see what you come up with. :smallsmile:

toapat
2012-04-17, 08:32 PM
halforcs are well treated by Gnomes and Halflings, making good livings as carpenters, guards, or servants who are primarily employed to reach the top shelf. They are never spoken poorly of, as their usefulness, combined with the fact that a single cuff from a halforc would likely kill these shortfolk, or at least leave an uncomfortable lump and a spot in their memory

Also, when is that Elf coming out?

Empedocles
2012-04-17, 08:33 PM
halforcs are well treated by Gnomes and Halflings, making good livings as carpenters, guards, or servants who are primarily employed to reach the top shelf. They are never spoken poorly of, as their usefulness, combined with the fact that a single cuff from a halforc would likely kill these shortfolk, or at least leave an uncomfortable lump and a spot in their memory

Also, when is that Elf coming out?

That's interesting fluff...I'll think on it.

Also, the elf is coming out when I find a good picture... If you know of a picture of a grim looking elf archmage-type PM me lol. The stats are done, and I have the fluff in my head...

EDIT: Image found! Need to do some real life stuff, then... typing time! :smallbiggrin:

Empedocles
2012-04-17, 10:06 PM
Ladies and gents, we HAVE AN ELF! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13089090#post13089090)

jguy
2012-04-19, 09:25 PM
halforcs are well treated by Gnomes and Halflings, making good livings as carpenters, guards, or servants who are primarily employed to reach the top shelf. They are never spoken poorly of, as their usefulness, combined with the fact that a single cuff from a halforc would likely kill these shortfolk, or at least leave an uncomfortable lump and a spot in their memory


Actually this was dang close to what I was thinking. I couldn't write up anything that was really up to snuff with what I wanted, writers block or something, but I will give you the general idea.

Half-orcs have the inherit ferociousness of the orcs and the ability to believe that absolutely anything is possible from the humans. This leads them to be the most tenacious people on the planet, even more than dwarfs.

Halflings and Gnomes are quick allies of Half-orcs, as they are shunned by humans, orcs, elves, and dwarfs through no fault of their own. Add in the fact almost all of them will be orphans, a lot of Half-orcs grow up in gnome and halfling societies.

Because of their sheer tenacity and growing up with magical adept gnomes and the quick witted and quick fingered halflings, you have a race who has learned to be very adept Wizards, skilled rogues and rangers, and are incredibly protective of their adopted homes. Many go into calm storms of rage when their family is hurt.

Empedocles
2012-04-19, 09:28 PM
Actually this was dang close to what I was thinking. I couldn't write up anything that was really up to snuff with what I wanted, writers block or something, but I will give you the general idea.

Half-orcs have the inherit ferociousness of the orcs and the ability to believe that absolutely anything is possible from the humans. This leads them to be the most tenacious people on the planet, even more than dwarfs.

Halflings and Gnomes are quick allies of Half-orcs, as they are shunned by humans, orcs, elves, and dwarfs through no fault of their own. Add in the fact almost all of them will be orphans, a lot of Half-orcs grow up in gnome and halfling societies.

Because of their sheer tenacity and growing up with magical adept gnomes and the quick witted and quick fingered halflings, you have a race who has learned to be very adept Wizards, skilled rogues and rangers, and are incredibly protective of their adopted homes. Many go into calm storms of rage when their family is hurt.

I like it :smallbiggrin: Now I need to think what parts of the current fluff stays and what goes...

Larkas
2012-04-22, 02:04 AM
Man, I REALLY like this! Extremely well made fluff, great substitution levels, solid race overall... Very nice!

Would you mind if I offered some ideas, though?

1 - I think you're missing one important race which would readily accept these half-orcs: Hobgoblins. Their militaristic bend, along with a lawful society that does not automatically shun orcs would be somewhat amenable to them. If you can earn the rank, you earn trust, respect, riches and, well, a place to call home.

2 - jguy might have come out too strong, but he does have a point. Maybe if you ease the whole "despise the gods" thing, it might make them less "generally badasses" and fix some of his concerns. It makes sense for lots of them to not care about gods, but a badass hero who truly hates them should make this decision alone.

3 - I know you already made all the substitution level classes, but just throwing it out there: it would be truly interesting to have them for the barbarian. Yes, I know, the one class you were trying to evade with this rewrite, but stay with me here and allow me to explain: just like you made these half-orcs with an innate, controlled but not tame rage, a simple substitution of the barbarian's rage mechanics which traded it for a more focused fury, maybe something along the lines of the sohei, would be VERY interesting. Not only did these sangavido tame their ancestor's bloodthirst, they actually can tame the very barbarian rage, turning it into focused fury. Awesomeness all across the board. Oh, well, food for thought, anyways.

Empedocles
2012-04-22, 02:12 AM
Man, I REALLY like this! Extremely well made fluff, great substitution levels, solid race overall... Very nice!

Would you mind if I offered some ideas, though?

1 - I think you're missing one important race which would readily accept these half-orcs: Hobgoblins. Their militaristic bend, along with a lawful society that does not automatically shun orcs would be somewhat amenable to them. If you can earn the rank, you earn trust, respect, riches and, well, a place to call home.

2 - jguy might have come out too strong, but he does have a point. Maybe if you ease the whole "despise the gods" thing, it might make them less "generally badasses" and fix some of his concerns. It makes sense for lots of them to not care about gods, but a badass hero who truly hates them should make this decision alone.

3 - I know you already made all the substitution level classes, but just throwing it out there: it would be truly interesting to have them for the barbarian. Yes, I know, the one class you were trying to evade with this rewrite, but stay with me here and allow me to explain: just like you made these half-orcs with an innate, controlled but not tame rage, a simple substitution of the barbarian's rage mechanics which traded it for a more focused fury, maybe something along the lines of the sohei, would be VERY interesting. Not only did these sangavido tame their ancestor's bloodthirst, they actually can tame the very barbarian rage, turning it into focused fury. Awesomeness all across the board. Oh, well, food for thought, anyways.

I'll think about the barbarian. It is an interesting idea...

Also, I'll ease up the whole despises gods fluff....although I did like it :smallfrown:

Not sure about the hobgoblins, since there's almost no info on them and I always run them as Lord Toede style characters from Dragonlance.

Larkas
2012-04-22, 02:37 AM
I'll think about the barbarian. It is an interesting idea...

Also, I'll ease up the whole despises gods fluff....although I did like it :smallfrown:

Not sure about the hobgoblins, since there's almost no info on them and I always run them as Lord Toede style characters from Dragonlance.

Like I said, I can clearly see most of them not caring about gods, but to truly hate them all, you would need a very dysfunctional individual, and to have lots of individuals like this would be kind of silly. Maybe when you write a "Races of X" with these half-orcs, you can write the story of some hero who's amassing as much power as he can to literally bring down the skies :smallsmile: Make him a leader of lots of half-orcs and they now have a society that, unwittingly or not, is actually hunting down gods :smallbiggrin: But seriously, this is your work, and it IS very nice. Don't change anything if you don't feel the need for it :smallsmile:

On the hobgoblins, I think there is actually one main setting where they once had a vast empire that was very important historically and artistically. ...Eberron, was it? If you need more immediate fluff, the Iron Heart discipline from Tome of Battle is actually of hobgoblin origin, hailing from their monastery of Ur-Thaldaar. Myself, if there was some hobgoblin city-state, I imagine it would be somewhat like Sparta.

willpell
2012-04-22, 06:18 AM
Do you think one of your half-orcs could work as a Druid? Or an ideoCleric?

Empedocles
2012-04-22, 12:51 PM
On the hobgoblins, I think there is actually one main setting where they once had a vast empire that was very important historically and artistically. ...Eberron, was it? If you need more immediate fluff, the Iron Heart discipline from Tome of Battle is actually of hobgoblin origin, hailing from their monastery of Ur-Thaldaar. Myself, if there was some hobgoblin city-state, I imagine it would be somewhat like Sparta.

Bringing up ToB, I could see hobgoblins as more militant and disciplined. Maybe half-orc wanderers occasionally settle down in hobgoblin Sparta...?


Do you think one of your half-orcs could work as a Druid? Or an ideoCleric?

I'd be more inclined to encourage players to have an ideCleric then a druid and run it as a sort of righteous crusader.

Larkas
2012-04-22, 01:52 PM
Bringing up ToB, I could see hobgoblins as more militant and disciplined. Maybe half-orc wanderers occasionally settle down in hobgoblin Sparta...?

Just a heads up: I was reading about it, and, unfortunately, in Xen'Drik hobgoblins hate orcs :smalltongue: Anyways, if you're not playing in Eberron, this is a non-issue. Hobgoblins and Orcs share more or less the same habitat, so I guess the occasional sangavido with a more militant mind might indeed find their way to, and employ in, a hobgoblin city-state :smallsmile:

Empedocles
2012-04-22, 09:00 PM
Just a heads up: I was reading about it, and, unfortunately, in Xen'Drik hobgoblins hate orcs :smalltongue: Anyways, if you're not playing in Eberron, this is a non-issue. Hobgoblins and Orcs share more or less the same habitat, so I guess the occasional sangavido with a more militant mind might indeed find their way to, and employ in, a hobgoblin city-state :smallsmile:

Possibly...I don't think that's going to get mention in the current fluff but the Races of X project will have a section on it :smallbiggrin:

By the way, any ideas for the name for my supplement thingy? It'll include my half-orc, my voldur, and some new stuff...I wanted to call it Races of War but that's already been done. Races of Blood?

Larkas
2012-04-22, 09:47 PM
Possibly...I don't think that's going to get mention in the current fluff but the Races of X project will have a section on it :smallbiggrin:

By the way, any ideas for the name for my supplement thingy? It'll include my half-orc, my voldur, and some new stuff...I wanted to call it Races of War but that's already been done. Races of Blood?

Will it be all about half-breeds, like the half-orc and the voldur? If so, Races of Blood might be a perfect fit :smallsmile:

Empedocles
2012-04-22, 10:03 PM
Will it be all about half-breeds, like the half-orc and the voldur? If so, Races of Blood might be a perfect fit :smallsmile:

Yeah, mostly half-breeds. And I think I'm going to go with Races of Blood. It seems appropriate :smallsmile: Think I'm going to open a discussion thread about it...

willpell
2012-04-26, 01:56 AM
I'd be more inclined to encourage players to have an ideCleric then a druid and run it as a sort of righteous crusader.

Well players will do what they want to do regardless of what you "encourage" as a designer, or even as a DM. It can be as bad an idea as a Sun Elf taking levels in monk, but plan on someone doing it anyway, and try to think about ways the fluff could support it. Otherwise your creation may be a little too one-note.

(I bring up the druid because one of my long-time favorite characters is one Greentooth Gertie; she fits better with the original half-orc anyway, but it still seemed worth questioning whether she could survive being turned into one of yours. There should be some room for them to be something other than badasses, even if it's what comes naturally to them.)

Empedocles
2012-04-26, 10:01 PM
Well players will do what they want to do regardless of what you "encourage" as a designer, or even as a DM. It can be as bad an idea as a Sun Elf taking levels in monk, but plan on someone doing it anyway, and try to think about ways the fluff could support it. Otherwise your creation may be a little too one-note.

(I bring up the druid because one of my long-time favorite characters is one Greentooth Gertie; she fits better with the original half-orc anyway, but it still seemed worth questioning whether she could survive being turned into one of yours. There should be some room for them to be something other than badasses, even if it's what comes naturally to them.)

This is true, but oftentimes when players make characters whose classes got against the norm for their race (say, a half-orc wizard or a gnome barbarian) they're going against the majority of the preexisting fluff.

Virdish
2012-04-28, 01:00 PM
I hope I'm not necroing but I'm interested in using this race a little modified fluffwise to be a half human half Narzal (custom race) any conversion advice?

Solaris
2012-04-29, 08:26 AM
What's a Narzal?

This half-orc made its way into my permanent homebrew folder.

Virdish
2012-04-29, 01:15 PM
It's a race of mine for my campaign setting daemon's seal. Think appearance wise a black orc with the ability to see in the infared spectrum and not as dumb or uncivilized.

Empedocles
2012-04-29, 07:32 PM
I hope I'm not necroing but I'm interested in using this race a little modified fluffwise to be a half human half Narzal (custom race) any conversion advice?

I'm not sure what a narzal is, and your lack of a signature has given me nowhere to start looking for it :smallfrown: If you post it I'd be happy to give some conversion advice.


This half-orc made its way into my permanent homebrew folder.

Whoa.

Virdish
2012-04-29, 08:18 PM
I'll have it posted tonight. Then I'll link it in this post.

Empedocles
2012-05-03, 11:30 AM
I'll have it posted tonight. Then I'll link it in this post.

Been awhile...do you still want the advice and is the race going to be posted? :smallconfused:

Virdish
2012-05-03, 11:40 AM
Yeah I'm just having trouble with them. I want them to feel tribal but not brutish and ignorant. I'm trying to get a good balance with them. I'm going for a greecian feel with them. Civilized but highly nationalistic and warlike.

Empedocles
2012-05-03, 11:43 AM
If you post/PM an image and basis for them I could show you my take on them :smallsmile:

(just an offer...)

Solaris
2012-05-03, 02:56 PM
Whoa.

It's in there as "Vilpich's Half-Orc". Beats the pants off any other take on it I've seen.

Tenevhrael
2012-05-17, 01:43 AM
I have an idea for the fluff. Emphasize that they are largely disciplined and orderly, this keeps the "badass" flavor intact but allows for stuff like a neat-freak and punctual wizard, always getting to events before time and acting superior to others (Kind of like "treat others how they treat you") but having a less arrogant personality when dealing with others of his own race or people he legitimately respects as friends/colleagues. It could also create room for characters who want to be a monk, probably one very resistant to people lying or intimidating him since he's used to the way people act towards him. Warblades and Swordsages are also an option with the focus on a disciplined warrior archetype. Mechanics-wise I would suggest adding a "+1 to existing class levels" in terms of manuevers, spells and etc, to the paragon's 2nd or 3rd levels.

The fluff that people have suggested about the halflings and gnomes, is golden and makes a lot of sense. I would add that they get along with dwarves better than dwarves get along with humans due to the strong streak of pragmatism and discipline (which is a trait I usually attribute to dwarves), though only once the dwarves get over the racism and hatred they would feel from them being half-orc. In a similar vein, I would suggest getting rid of the line that says orcs torture dwarves. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. but it makes dwarves seem a victim of orcs, which in my honest opinion isn't something I think the bearded folk would appreciate or believe. As a sidenote I'd like to point out I created this GitP account just to post on this thread. I have been meaning to make an account for awhile but this made me want to comment, freaking brilliant rewrite and I hope to play a Half-Orc Paragon/Warblade very very soon :smallsmile: .

Hiro Protagonest
2012-05-17, 05:42 PM
Sure, refluffing is possible, but this fluff is saying "all half-orcs are born from rape and their mothers are dead". Two problems.
1) All means all. I don't care if WotC put "always" as "95%" for alignment. This isn't alignment.
2) How are they both born and their mothers dead? Do all of the mothers die at childbirth? Do the orcs take them as slaves (something orcs haven't been known to do; that's hobgoblin stuff), then kill them off because of their child? Why don't they kill the mother when they find out she's pregnant? Or kill both of them after childbirth?

And you should say what the Ki Frenzy actually DOES. Multiple people in this thread have asked. Sure, you told them, but it would be way more efficient to just put it in with the stats.

Midnight_v
2012-05-19, 10:35 AM
"Ki" almost anything is better conceptually... but thats an issue for another time. Moving on.

The warlock...

I might strengthen these substitution levels...give him something like the "flicker" mystery while in a battle trance.
That would actually open a whole new door for them.
PLEASE add this!

willpell
2012-05-19, 10:56 AM
I hope I'm not necroing but I'm interested in using this race a little modified fluffwise to be a half human half Narzal (custom race) any conversion advice?

Just for the record I will also be modifying the specifics but using the general concept. Nice work, Vilpich.

Averis Vol
2012-05-19, 07:16 PM
this is awesome, i'd love to incorporate this into my campaign. no PC's are half orc and they've yet to run into one but i have an NPC who can end up being really important. and nothing says spiritual warlord leader like this beast you've made. :smallbiggrin:

Empedocles
2012-05-21, 06:03 PM
this is awesome, i'd love to incorporate this into my campaign. no PC's are half orc and they've yet to run into one but i have an NPC who can end up being really important. and nothing says spiritual warlord leader like this beast you've made. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks a ton man! :smallbiggrin:

LordErebus12
2012-05-21, 06:22 PM
i enjoy what you did here with the race and will comment only upon this.

i like how it sort of has the pathfinder feat shown below:

Intimidating Prowess (Combat)
Your physical might is intimidating to others.
Benefit: Add your Strength modifier to Intimidate skill checks in addition to your Charisma modifier.

what about this little homebrew ability based on the Ferocity (pathfinder orc ability)?

Fury (Ex): A creature with fury remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered but may continue to fight an number of rounds equal to half his con modifier (min 1).

Empedocles
2012-06-04, 05:56 PM
An orc race to correspond to this half-orc can be found here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245362)

Enjoy.

(also, not trying to necro this thread to plug my own work. I just thought people who read this thread would be interested in reading the parent thread. Now I feel guilty... :smalleek:)

Empedocles
2012-06-04, 05:57 PM
i enjoy what you did here with the race and will comment only upon this.

i like how it sort of has the pathfinder feat shown below:

Intimidating Prowess (Combat)
Your physical might is intimidating to others.
Benefit: Add your Strength modifier to Intimidate skill checks in addition to your Charisma modifier.

what about this little homebrew ability based on the Ferocity (pathfinder orc ability)?

Fury (Ex): A creature with fury remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered but may continue to fight an number of rounds equal to half his con modifier (min 1).

Ironically, I had no idea those abilities existed!

NoodleKeeper
2015-04-10, 05:12 PM
Is it worth redoing this in a Races of X format? That'd expand upon your options a lot...

I know it might be a little late to say this...But I would love to see more work for this Half-Orc build.

Michaelhorvath
2015-05-06, 02:52 PM
I am starting a new campaign soon we are starting at lvl12 and wanted to try out a barbarian, having never played a half-orc I went looking online for some info and build ideas. I came across your stuff on here and love it. I'm haven't played a lot D&D maybe 4 campaigns over the years. So I'm trying to figure out a few things the feats/abilities I can take are all going to come from the barbarian set just changing out the battle trance for rage right? The BT works like the ki-frenzy giving me the +2 str/dex and +10 movement also letting me use flurry of blows. I'm unsure of how to progress him to lvl12 being this is a whole new sub-class and help would be appreciated.

Disuppyr
2016-10-29, 11:24 PM
Is there a completed character sheet of the half orch sohei that i could use? If not could you post one? I would absolutely LOVE to use this in my next game!:smallsmile:

Sengir Dauthi
2017-04-03, 01:14 PM
Empedocles,

A little over a year ago I came across this thread, and it resonated because I've wanted to build a "half orc you want to play" for a long time, a D&D equivalent of an old Rifts character I had about 15 years ago. I shared your idea with my DM, and since then we've taken the Sangavido in a pretty serious direction, weaving this new race into the core of the story arc. We put together an extensive document describing the race and origins. It was a blast, and the story is still going very very strong. Thanks so much for getting me started in the right direction. You never know what relatively minor efforts or actions might inspire others, eh?

I wanted to share it with you since you were the original inspiration, but I can't include a link just yet. Apparently you can't post a link on your first post, but I think you can email me and I'll share it with you- and you should feel free to post it here, too.

Cheers
Colin in Boston