[3.5] I'm a Warlock! What now?

[Krazzman]

Hello again Playground,

since our usual DM has some sort of longer-timed illness, one of our players decided to run a 3.5 adventure. For the moment we have a Female Human Ninja TWF-ing Kamas, a Healing Focused Female Human Cleric of Chauntea and me, the Human Warlock(CG).

But I'm a bit stunned what to do or if my plans could be a bit too much for the group.

My stats so far are:
13str 18dex 14con 12int 12wis 16cha

Feats: Point Blank and Precise Shot.
Invocation: See the Unseen (See invisible and Darkvision for 24hours).

So far my plan was to get Entropic Warding next and other invocations would be Fell Flight(24 hours Flight), Flee the Scene(shorter dimensiondoor + Illusionary Image) and the other more defensively Invocation that provide either movement benefits or battlefield controllers like black tentacles.

The thing is... I have too many options. Mindbender could be an option but I fear of being too powerful then with having too many minions. Multiclassing with Cleric for the Divine Warlock prestige class is out because of missing Complete Mage (I've got it lying somewhere but the dm has not).
Another thing is atm I sit on 700 EP so I'm certainly going to have a Level Up next session. Additionally I've got a potion of Blur and 2 Potions of Cure Light wounds(1D8+1).

My question now is, what would you suggest me to do? Can I somehow raise my dmg with Eldritch Blast with another way as the Hellfire Warlock?

The list of books is quite long and I never have played with that much books which on the other hand stunned me a bit. (Usually we only had Complete Arc, Div, Adv, Warr and Mage as splatbooks.)PHB 1&2
Magic Item Compendium
DMG 1&2
Complete Adv, Arc, Champion, Divine, Scoundrel, Psionic, Warrior (should be all except Mage)
Races of Destiny
Fiend Folio
Elder Evils
Faerun Campaign Setting
Players Guide to Faerun

Hope you can help me whilst havin a nice easter(if you celebrate it).

[Socratov]

EB benefits from most extra dmg dice. If you feel you have enough invocations (which i can't believe) you can try and get some extra damage dice like sneak attack or skirmish damage.

[Malroth]

Psionic shot and greater Psionic shot

[Krazzman]

Nice, I'm going to ask about the psionic one (think the feats are in the Expanded Psionics Handbook).
Else I more thought about something along the line of Craven.

Thanks for the reply so far.

[Krazzman]

Sooo found my old build for a Warlock...

Invocations:
See the Unseen (see invis + darkvision)
Entropic Warding (Miss chance against ranged, leave no trace)
Swimming the Styx ()/Spiderwalk (Spider climb)
Flee the Scene (Dimension Door + Major Image)
Walk Unseen (invisibility)
Wall of Perilious Flame (wall of flame)
Fell Flight (Fliegen)
Voidsense (Blindsense 30ft)
Enerverating Shadow (Concealment in shadow and strenght penality)
Path of Shadow (Shadow walk and more fast healing)
Retributive Invisibility (Invisibility and Damage if dispelled)
Devour Magic (greater dispel magic by touch + temp hp)
Word of Changing (baleful polymorph)

Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Toughness
Empower Spell
Quicken Spell
Extra Invocation (3)

Any further suggestions?

[Socratov]

walk unseen is overrated, by then only mooks will be fooled by your invisibility (and it only lasts for as lon gas you don't attack since it mimicks lesser invisibility)

change enervating shadow for chilling tentacles and you're golden (yes it's a must... it's basically a better version of Edvard's black hentai tentacles of spiked and forced intrusion of hell (etc. It has a really long name IIRC))

[Snowbluff]

Don't waste your feats on EB, it does terrible damage. I suggest MetaSLA or Eldritch Claws.

Darkness + the Darkness feats in DotU can give you nifty bonuses like seeing through your Darkness and HiPS.

[Yorrin]

Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Toughness
Empower Spell
Quicken Spell
Extra Invocation (3)

Ouch.
Alright, firstly improved toughness sucks. Replace it with something that will actually be useful. Something like Ranged Disarm from C.War would be fun if you want a good nonviolent way to deal with foes using EB. Or even Something like Maximize SLA, since you seem to like that type of thing.
Speaking of- Empower Spell and Quicken Spell dont work with invocations- you'll need to pick up Empower Spell-Like Ability and Quicken Spell-Like Ability.

Also- if you're getting See the Unseen, why are you not picking up the Darkness invocation? The synergy is beautiful.

[Particle_Man]

If you are already taking precise shot you could get improved precise shot at level 15.

Probably Create Wondrous Item (or at least *some* crafting feat) at level 12. Might as well take advantage of that ability.

My favourite invocations:

Eldritch Spear
See the Unseen
Entropic Warding

Flee the Scene
Fell Flight
Eldritch Chain

Vitriolic Blast (beats SR)
Chill Tentacles
Warlock's Call

Shadow Walk
The greater invisibility one
The 24 hour danger sense one.

Maybe add a "dispel magic" one with a feat at higher levels.

Since you are explicitly not going for power, don't be afraid to have fun with pumping up the blast.

There are SLA feats in the monster manual that can apply (maximize, empower, etc.) 3/day.

Sudden Still with Flee the Scene can help if you are grappled, 1/day.

[DoctorGlock]

I note that you have 13 str. That means you can power attack, which goes very nice with eldritch glaive. Depending on the interpretation, you can take Supernatural Transformation with that and "full attack" as a standard action with a touch weapon getting 2H power attack bonuses.

Consider either some binder levels or incarnum (strongheart vest) before going into hellfire warlock.

At the end of the day you should have about 3 (or more if you can get into any gish PrC) attacks doing between 14d6 and 17d6 plus power attack modifiers.

There is a demonbinder class, might be drow only, but most DMs will waive that. It grants you per-encounter demonic abilities that go rather nicely with warlock based stuff.

Your wis is low so no ur-priest sadly.

Edit: Silly me, not looking at ban list

Your list does include eldritch theurge. You have passable charisma. Take some sorcerer levels, get some utility and buffs, as well as immediate actions (mmmm, celerity and wings of cover), grab some orbs to stitch to your blasts and cut loose.

[Cieyrin]

Bother, my suggestions are for Wuxialocks, which requires books outside your list, like Eldritch Glaive and Eldritch Claws. :smallannoyed:

Also Hellfire Warlock is off-limits, since there's no Fiendish Codex II on the list. You still have Chausibles of Fell Power to increase your blastiness, so that's something... Warlock's Sceptar too, now that I think about it.

Thanks to the errata, the Metamagic Spell-like Enhancers all boost the base blast as a 1st level spell and it only gets higher level when you apply invocations to modify your blast. So Quicken, Empower and Maximize that stuff.

[Krazzman]

Oh wow.
As I said it was my old build. I made it about two years ago before we switched to PF/my Gaming group broke up.

The Tentacle thingie.... I am happy to say that I wanted that one. Atm I took Point Blank and Precise Shot because of not wanting to not hit because our ninja tries to stab them with her kamas.

I haven't read about Spell like abilities and metamagic feats in... yeah, about 2 years...

My goal now is to stack abilities that heighten my chances of survival and make my trick a bit better (eldritch blast). And the Invisibility Invication is good as it is.

Why not going Devils Sight + Darkness Trick? Because in 3.5 its overrated. That's why I focus on my senses, then on my other defense and at 4th level (3rd least one) I would take swimming the styx to get me another form of movement and another form of breath.

Additionally which items (except a Wand of Cure Light Wounds) would be beneficial to a Warlock?

Hope this helps you help me further.

[Socratov]

+cha items, chausuble of fell power (increasing the dmg dice of your EB), warlock scepter (+dmg dice to EB number of itmes per day), there is a glove that enables you to change the type of elemental power your blasts is 3/day (forgot the name). that and standard advernturing gear i suppose...

[JadePhoenix]

I note that you have 13 str. That means you can power attack, which goes very nice with eldritch glaive.

You can't power attack with eldritch glaive. Eldritch glaive is not a weapon.

[DoctorGlock]

You can't power attack with eldritch glaive. Eldritch glaive is not a weapon.

I was under the impression that such was never codified or confirmed. Source?

[JadePhoenix]

I was under the impression that such was never codified or confirmed. Source?

There is a guide to melee warlocks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708) explores this a bit, but basically, according to Complete Arcane, eldritch blast is a weapon-like spell(like ability) and there is a list of feats you can use with weapon-like spells. Power Attack is not one of those.

[Madara]

No love for Baleful Utterance? Its probably my favorite utility invocation.

[Krazzman]

No love for Baleful Utterance? Its probably my favorite utility invocation.

That was the Shatter one, right? The thing is I don't know which I would like to trade for it.

[eggs]

How do you feel about going Exalted?

Sentinel of Bharrai is a pretty cool class for CG Warlocks.

Mostly because anything that transforms into a bear that shoots lasers from its face falls into the "pretty cool" realm. Especially if it has a class ability called "Cavalry of Dire Bears."

[Gavinfoxx]

There are a few good warlock guides out there... have you read them?

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2997
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870282/The_Glaivelock_-_A_Mini-Guide

[Lonely Tylenol]

Far from optimized, but I'd recommend taking Hideous Blow (if you don't already have it) and then Fell Flight, and then grabbing a spear or a greatsword or some other two-handed weapon (ideally one with reach) and the Flyby attack feat. Make flying charges from the sky and rain Hell from above upon those who are stupid enough to challenge your melee prowess!

Bonus points for power: Power Attack, Shock Trooper (and prerequisites). Become Ubercharger Lite.

Bonus points for style: A charged item of any Disguise-like spell to make you look like a monkey with black wings, plus a trigger-activated Permanencied Magic Mouth that cries "fly, my pretties!" when you activate the disguise.

[Krazzman]

There are a few good warlock guides out there... have you read them?

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2997
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870282/The_Glaivelock_-_A_Mini-Guide

Thinblades guide...yeah I read the old version from 2005.
the Glavelock is unavailable. And I don't want to go into melee.

Thanks for posting them.

I think I'm now going for either swimming the Styx or Baleful Utterance. Going to ask the DM about the Water-parts.

[Gavinfoxx]

Crapcrapcrap!

I thought that glaivelock one worked. Holdonatic

Wait this one?

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870282/The_Glaivelock_-_A_Mini-Guide

It works, just refresh!

[Krazzman]

According to the Invocations, can I have only one of one sort up?

Example: I cast the Tentacle Invocation, after a few rounds I cast it again?

(I'm AFB so I couldn't read about that specific one...)

Furthermore:
Now, assuming I don't want to go into melee, and since there is no FC2 and MI no Hellfirewarlock, should I take straight warlock or should I dip? And in what?

For feats I thought about Quicken SLA(or empower and so on) for 2 EB a round 3 times a day.

[Cieyrin]

According to the Invocations, can I have only one of one sort up?

Example: I cast the Tentacle Invocation, after a few rounds I cast it again?

(I'm AFB so I couldn't read about that specific one...)

Furthermore:
Now, assuming I don't want to go into melee, and since there is no FC2 and MI no Hellfirewarlock, should I take straight warlock or should I dip? And in what?

For feats I thought about Quicken SLA(or empower and so on) for 2 EB a round 3 times a day.

Invocations don't have a Law of Sequence or anything like that, so you can spam as many tentacles as you have actions capable of unleashing them. Some invocations may have a usage limit, Tentacles isn't one of them from my reading. It may get redundant, though.

As for multiclassing, there are several options available to you, depending on where you wish to go with your Warlock. I just posted this to a different Warlock thread and some of the PrCs/classes are outside your books but a good chunk of them are available:


There may only be 4 Warlock specific PrCs (you forgot Enlightened Spirit or Hellfire Warlock) but there are several they are capable of taking that advances invocations and eldritch blast damage, like Half-Elf and Human Paragon, Ruathar, Cyran Avenger, Blood Magus, Acolyte of the Skin, Enlightened Fist, Green Star Adept, Mindbender, Wild Mage, Uncanny Trickster, Mythic Exemplar, Paragnostic Apostle, Sanctified One, Squire of Legend, Cloaked Dancer, Fortune's Friend, Master of Masks, Daggerspell Mage, Maester, Ollam and Virtuoso, among others. So there are choices out there, you just have to look for them.

The bolded ones are should all be in your book list, though how applicable they are to you depends on how interested you are in their abilities. Quite a couple are not full casting, so carefully consider that before traipsing in but you can make a good character out of several.

[Socratov]

Invocations don't have a Law of Sequence or anything like that, so you can spam as many tentacles as you have actions capable of unleashing them. Some invocations may have a usage limit, Tentacles isn't one of them from my reading. It may get redundant, though.

As for multiclassing, there are several options available to you, depending on where you wish to go with your Warlock. I just posted this to a different Warlock thread and some of the PrCs/classes are outside your books but a good chunk of them are available:



The bolded ones are should all be in your book list, though how applicable they are to you depends on how interested you are in their abilities. Quite a couple are not full casting, so carefully consider that before traipsing in but you can make a good character out of several.

nope, no invocations with limits (as i can racell) they are all at will and cost a stadard action to use unless otherwise specified... It is however nice to have flee the scene quickened...

[nedz]

nope, no invocations with limits (as i can racell) they are all at will and cost a stadard action to use unless otherwise specified... It is however nice to have flee the scene quickened...

He's talking about Summon Swarm I suspect, which is excellent BUT has a duration of concentration rather than C+2. This stops you spamming 3 of them :smallbiggrin:


Far from optimized, but I'd recommend taking Hideous Blow ...
Hideous Blow is a trap ! Its a standard action so no iteratives.

[Red_Dog]

Far from optimized, but I'd recommend taking Hideous Blow (if you don't already have it) and then Fell Flight, and then grabbing a spear or a greatsword or some other two-handed weapon (ideally one with reach) and the Flyby attack feat. Make flying charges from the sky and rain Hell from above upon those who are stupid enough to challenge your melee prowess!

Bonus points for power: Power Attack, Shock Trooper (and prerequisites). Become Ubercharger Lite.

Bonus points for style: A charged item of any Disguise-like spell to make you look like a monkey with black wings, plus a trigger-activated Permanencied Magic Mouth that cries "fly, my pretties!" when you activate the disguise.

Flyby is not a charge. So shock trooper doesn't work.

Hideous blow needs Standard action, and charge is a full round action. So no charging with it.

Sadly enough you can't even nab Greater Flyby attack[which ODDLY enough doesn't require Improved Flyby attack!] from Savage Species as its needs fullround action...

So with a normal Flyby attack[if DM lets you, as your fly isn't permanent...] and make one attack per turn... Not great...= \

================================================== =>

More on topic...

Warlocks get no love. My best suggestion is This build[I gave it to my drow warlocks as after 5 days trying, I gave up on something original]=>

Warlock 1-20
1st lvl and 3rd lvl feats are Whatever you want. I'd go Combat reflexes/evasive reflexes + Hold the line to give yourself options to not suck in melee if it comes to it. BUT Precise shot + pointblank is an ok alternative.
6th to END => Extra Invocation [with perhaps Extraordinary Concentration Somewhere in it, so you could use Flee the scene's Major image better, or have a swarm for longer and etc. It does say " maintain a spell" but a DM has to be really mean to not let you do it]

IMHO this is really the "true Warlock" build because the funnest part about being a Warlock is unlimited Invocation Spam.

As per Invocation selection... You got me there...

I like "Entropic Wards + Flee the Scene + Eldritch Spear" mash up. Its shoot until they are close, than port, than shoot some more. If they shoot back, Entropic Wards will help to cut that short. Combine with a Mithril Buckler with Arrow Deflection Crystal and High Dex[for hittin' stuff] and maybe Parrying shield[add shield bonus to touch armor] and laugh at there feeble attempts to Return Fire.

^^

Otherwise... warlocks have 3 metric tons of KOOL invocations... hard part is to choose which one you want the most...

P.S. Does anyone know if Sickening Blast allows a save? It doesn't say in the description that it does... Frighting blast does say that it allows a save...

[JadePhoenix]

Far from optimized, but I'd recommend taking Hideous Blow (if you don't already have it) and then Fell Flight, and then grabbing a spear or a greatsword or some other two-handed weapon (ideally one with reach) and the Flyby attack feat. Make flying charges from the sky and rain Hell from above upon those who are stupid enough to challenge your melee prowess!
Charging is a full-attack action and as such can't be combined with Flyby Attack or Hideous Blow.

[Red_Dog]

=>JadePhoenix

Jinx?O_0 0_O

*look at post time*

[Siosilvar]

Charging is a full-attack action and as such can't be combined with Flyby Attack or Hideous Blow.

Slight correction; full-round action, not a full attack (at least without Pounce or a similar ability).

[nedz]

P.S. Does anyone know if Sickening Blast allows a save? It doesn't say in the description that it does... Frighting blast does say that it allows a save...

CArc p 135 Fort Save or sickened for 1 minute. (I know they print the descriptions THREE times - so you have to check them all :smallwink:)


Slight correction; full-round action, not a full attack (at least without Pounce or a similar ability).

Pounce not helping here: Hideous Blow still Blows Hideously

[Krazzman]

Wow, that's quite a bit.

So far I have this (we leveled up to level 3 yesterday!)

Myskerian, Human of the Dragon Coast Warlock 3.
Stat array: 13 18 14 12 12 16
HP: 24 (rolled really well yesterday)
Feats:
H: Point Blank Shot (so far pretty awesome since all enemies where closer than 30ft)
1: Precise Shot (since I always hide behind the cleric and the ninja...)
3: (no clue. can't take imp toughness, can't find a proper 3rd level feat)

Invocations least(2):
See the Unseen
Entropic Warding

Special Abilities:
Eldritch Blast 2d6
Detect Magic
Damage Reduction 1/Cold Iron.
special Gear:

Sunrod
Mithril Chainshirt
Potion of Blur
Potion of Cure Light Wounds 1w8+1 (2 times)


So, I'm missing a 3rd level feat for now. (Thought about Resilency to have more dr, but even 2/cold iron won't be that much, the spell like ability feats from CArc to get mage hand and tenser floating disk )
I thought about straight Warlock so far, maybe a 2leve dip of rogue for skillpoints and evasion.
I would like to get a better hit dice/bab/saves/skillpoints.
The probably next thing I wanted to look up is the attribute X to Y thread, trying to get my cha on saves and other things.
My next invocation will be baleful utterance.
Additionally...eldritch blast as a spell like ability functions like a spell...does this mean i have to cast it defensively or can't I provoke an AoO via casting it?

Furthermore I got to ask for advice about a good feat for a 3rd level ninja.
So far she has Weapon Finesse (ignoring the BaB req) and TWF. I tried to advice her to go for tempest since she misses quite a lot and gets hit a lot.

Hope you can help me further.

[Malroth]

Suggestions:
Mortalbane
Ability focus (eldritch blast)
empower spell like ability (eldritch blast)

[Socratov]

Flyby is not a charge. So shock trooper doesn't work.

Hideous blow needs Standard action, and charge is a full round action. So no charging with it.

Sadly enough you can't even nab Greater Flyby attack[which ODDLY enough doesn't require Improved Flyby attack!] from Savage Species as its needs fullround action...

So with a normal Flyby attack[if DM lets you, as your fly isn't permanent...] and make one attack per turn... Not great...= \

================================================== =>

More on topic...

Warlocks get no love. My best suggestion is This build[I gave it to my drow warlocks as after 5 days trying, I gave up on something original]=>

Warlock 1-20
1st lvl and 3rd lvl feats are Whatever you want. I'd go Combat reflexes/evasive reflexes + Hold the line to give yourself options to not suck in melee if it comes to it. BUT Precise shot + pointblank is an ok alternative.
6th to END => Extra Invocation [with perhaps Extraordinary Concentration Somewhere in it, so you could use Flee the scene's Major image better, or have a swarm for longer and etc. It does say " maintain a spell" but a DM has to be really mean to not let you do it]

IMHO this is really the "true Warlock" build because the funnest part about being a Warlock is unlimited Invocation Spam.

As per Invocation selection... You got me there...

I like "Entropic Wards + Flee the Scene + Eldritch Spear" mash up. Its shoot until they are close, than port, than shoot some more. If they shoot back, Entropic Wards will help to cut that short. Combine with a Mithril Buckler with Arrow Deflection Crystal and High Dex[for hittin' stuff] and maybe Parrying shield[add shield bonus to touch armor] and laugh at there feeble attempts to Return Fire.

^^

Otherwise... warlocks have 3 metric tons of KOOL invocations... hard part is to choose which one you want the most...

P.S. Does anyone know if Sickening Blast allows a save? It doesn't say in the description that it does... Frighting blast does say that it allows a save...

any and all bast essences allow for a save of 10+invocation effective spell lvl +cha (IIRC), unless otherwise mentioned, so if you want to throw around essence based effects, be sure to pump up your cha to great heights.

[Cieyrin]

Additionally...eldritch blast as a spell like ability functions like a spell...does this mean i have to cast it defensively or can't I provoke an AoO via casting it?

Invocations (Eldritch Blast is one) are spell-like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities), thus they provoke. Also, since they're spell-likes, you can also cast defensively.

[Krazzman]

Finally time to post again...

I'll going to need advice for the whole party, since they asked me and I haven't really read anything about 3.5 in a long time.

I want to add that we are a good aligned group. I'm a CG follower of Tymora (as is the Ninja) and our Cleric is a NG Chauntea follower.

My goal is to dash out at least a little bit of damage, be a survivalist and be a good addition to the party and spamming tentacles of course. The high charisma is only for bluffing and UMD, not so much for saves.

The Ninjas goal is to contribute in Combat and being our Skill Monkey (she even though about dipping fighter). That's why I adviced her going into Tempest to reduce the mali she gets from twfing or to go on throwing weapons to throw a huge bunch of shuriken.

Our Cleric so far has:
Augment Healing
Eshew Materials (although I don't know if she needs it)
Touch of Healing
and wants to be the healer first, destroyer of worlds later.
She seeks a few Prestige Classes that'll help her reach that or feats, but mostly prestige classes.

Hope this helps you help us, since our ninja is still missing her third feat, our cleric might be able to change eshew materials and I'm also missing a third feat (Mortal Bane is in a nonavaible book and empower sla needs a 4th level sla).

[Krazzman]

Ok, to narrow it down:

Force of Personality (getting Cha on Will saves)
Spell Hand (Tensers floating disk, Mage hand and open/close 1/day)
Sudden Still
Unbelievable Lucky
Tempting Fate
Advantageous Avoidance
Which feat is suited best for my before mentioned needs/goal?